170: Shampoo (1975)

“Hey, listen, baby, I'm a star.” Alex and Nick discuss the ‘70s hangout movie masterpiece, “Shampoo.” Alex explains why star/writer/producer Warren Beatty set the film on Election Day 1968, before the guys break down the film’s production design, costumes, and hair, the unique charms of Julie Christie, Goldie Hawn, and Jack Warden, how the great Lee Grant was blacklisted from Hollywood and came back to win an Academy Award for the film, and much more.

Part 7 of the WAYW New Hollywood Film Project.

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Transcript

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He must be a very important executive. Well, whatever I. I think I can get you whatever you'd like. Okay. Okay. Whatever I like, whatever you like. And most of all, I'd like to suck. Wouldn't it be nice if we all did that? We wouldn't have to wait so long. And wouldn't it be nice to live together in the kind of world where we belong? You know it's gonna make it that much better, you say. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex sweat throat. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Doe. So how are you doing there, Richard Milhous Nixon? It's Jesus grace. I was like, for once, just give it to me. Give me. Give it to me, give me, give me. Warren, you ought to judge George. Now, if anything, I'd give you Lester. Oh, boy, oh, boy, I love Lester. God, I love that so much. Oh, well, I love this movie. And I'm so excited to talk to you today. Talk with you today about shampoo. How do you feel to be here? Dude, I cannot believe. I can't believe it. I can't believe this movie. This is. I'm so excited to be here. I am a, I have imposter syndrome right now. Why is that? Because this was my my first time seeing this movie. Yeah. And and this is like, I knew halfway through, I was like, this is like, this is like an everybody wants some type experience where, like, oh, yeah, I just need to keep coming back to this. So I feel like. Cause I've only seen it once now, but all I'm craving now is to watch it all over again. So I can just be in this movie again and again and again and again. Because it's just so much fun. But I feel like I can't talk about it well enough because it's just there's so much going on in every single scene. I only caught what I caught, but I was like, there's there's stuff going on in the background. There's stuff going on over here. It's like the lines that they're saying to each other that like, I'm mishearing and I'll have you know, you stupid son of a bitch that I can put subtitles on for this movie because I was like, all right, I'm going to fucking do it because I'm not a subtitles person. Everybody. I don't like watching English, American movies with the words read back to me as I'm hearing them. I'm sorry. I know I'm I'm not part of the majority of, like, the 70% of American households that watched subtitles for their English shows, but I don't okay, I don't that's not who I am. That's not what I'm about. But I put them on for this movie. And you know what Amazon did? They fucked it up. They fucked up all the subtitles they took out words. There weren't curse words. They they screwed up the whole. They shat the bed, Welcome to. What are you watching? Jesus Christ. Yes. Streaming subtitles can be iffy, but if it's on the disc and you know I'm a physical media man, I'm a Blu ray man. You're a 4K. Good. But, Yeah, I love 4k. I wish this was in 4K. Okay, where to begin? It doesn't make me a stupid son of a bitch that you don't want to know everything that your movies have to say because you learn so much. If you watch it with subtitles. Yeah, I mean, well, only having one shampoo viewing under your belt and then potting about it is no easy feat. So I appreciate that you're here when I toss this out to you, which was like months ago. At this point, I said for 75, I'm thinking shampoo because 75 is kind of like the year for the 70s. You know, you got Dog Day, you got jaws, Nashville, Barry Lyndon, Cuckoo's Nest. It's a huge year, but I wanted to go with something a little more understated, something that isn't talked about a lot for a few reasons. One. Shampoo is my favorite Hal Ashby movie. I love Hal Ashby. I love this movie. And I'm going to say, I think this is the prototype for the hang out movie. I didn't put it in our hang out episode years ago because you hadn't seen it. It's not you, sugar. Denying yourself. Well, sorry. This is probably one, if not my favorite hangout movie ever, because it started it all everybody wants. I mean, there's so many directors that were influenced by this. Richard Linklater, for one, he's. I mean, so much of his career dazed and confused, John Hughes, so much of his are just like hanging out this movie. I if if we did a list of our top ten movies of the decade, 1970s, 1970s, decade, this would be on it. I'm not I mean, so would probably deliverance, obviously. So would probably Chinatown, which we just did, which is also written by Robert Towns. We're doing a Robert Towne double feature here, right in a row. I don't know if this movie is accurate, but it feels exactly like it must have been in Beverly Hills on election eve, 1968. You are there like it is. It's this a time capsule? It is. It's perfect. It is a perfect hangout. Movie plot, if you can parse any out, is absolutely secondary to character. This is all character driving around character and like four blocks of Beverly Hills. It's not even like an LA movie. This like what it is. This does not. Yeah. No, it's not an L.A. movie, but it's almost one of the best L.A. movies. All the driving around, driving from here to there makes such a big deal about that. Got to go here. Got to go there. The confusion. You always have ten things to do. It's so. But what's funny about it is that there's no shots in downtown. It's no shots on the Hollywood sign. There's no there's no big shot of Rodeo Drive. You're just limited to these few to George's life, these few square blocks of Beverly Hills where he feels like he is the king. He owns it all. But as we may realize by the end of the film, not so much, sir. Not so much. What do you really have? Oh, I love this movie. So, yeah, I'm so excited to jump into jump into all of it. I'm going to say this right here, right now. Okay? The next time we do a hangout movie, it's one thing when you lie to me, but don't you ever lie to yourself. I'm not lying, I say, wait, a pudding pudding in a hangout movie. You might have actually actually put this in there. I may have mentioned it, but actually I need to, Shit. I came to shampoo late. I watched this for the first time. Like, since we've known each other, I had not, so I've watched it for the first time in the last decade. I actually don't remember when I the first time. I'm trying to think if we had the part we had to have because I bought it, I bought the criterion for my third watch, which was like 2022, 2023 because I watched it the first time and went, whoa, this is okay. What? I mean, it's it's crazy. It it's weird in the plotting. There's so many names and all this stuff. You're like, what is going on now? He's back on the bike. Okay, here we go. More music. Here we go. This party. This party. And it kind of lost me a little bit. And I think this is common for a lot of people. But as you just said, I for the life of me, cannot get this fucking movie out of my head for months. And it was still I used to be on criterion, so I gave it another spin on criterion, and then I loved it. But that I know that second spin was well after we recorded that hangout episode, so that's probably why I didn't include it. So this is also a newer discovery for me. I did not discover this one as a kid because no one ever talked about it. Like no one, no one ever sold me this movie. I always confuse this movie for I know because I haven't seen either one of them, except now I've seen shampoo. But I always confuse this. And Klute. Oh, I don't even say hair. Oh, no, that'd be funny. But it'd be a great sequel because conditioner. It's funny right? Anyways, crickets. The, the, I oh, yeah. For some reason, I just always, for some reason, I was like, Klute shampoo is like this. I got a feel that either. And maybe I'm completely wrong about Klute, but I was like, I feel like these are both sort of like, funny movies. No, no, it's not okay. All right. Never mind that. No clue does about a guy from a small town who goes missing in the big city in New York City, and his buddy John Klute, played by Donald Sutherland, goes to the city to try to track him down. And his only real lead is a high class prostitute played by Jane Fonda, who won the Oscar for it. It's a great movie. All right, well, I mean, then, I was mistaken, but I do look forward to this. But, so. Yeah, so I, I never really knew it. And then when you had set it and you were like, you're going to love this movie. And I was like, all right, there's there's got to be something to this that, that because you usually don't say that unless you know it. I was sold with this movie in the very first, like, opening scene. But, but I'll say this, though, is that, like, then like a couple scenes go by and I got confused. So I because I'm like, wait, what exactly is this. And you know and it's, and it's one of those things where this is what we do as audiences. We try to figure it out. And then I, it was shortly thereafter where I realized I go, oh, this is not a movie where you need to do any of this. This is a movie where you just sit back and enjoy and just, just have fun at the millions of things that are going on in every single scene. This is a very the end. And it's, it's it's honestly it's masterful because you you've got all of these characters. We're I'm, we're no we're jumping around but you've got all these characters sometimes they're flooding the frame where you've got like five characters in one time. They're all saying something different because they all want something different, and they're all grounded in some sort of real reality for them. That's hilarious for us to watch. Meanwhile, you've got this epitome of cool, but also mouth breathing completely oblivious off in his own world of lead character. That is, you can tell he's thinking about a million different things, but we never know what they are. I love it, I love it. The so much of this joy of this movie is trying to actually figure out what might be going through this guy's head, because he's getting pulled in so many different directions, but he's just like, What? Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. No. Fuck. And and then like like that, there's, there's certain things that he says, like I do what I want and then he's leaves. It's like all under his breath is, where are you going? Wherever I feel like on your time or mine, I love all I mean, yeah, we'll get into so much of it. But the what it comes in my head is where we cut to him and Julie Christie's ordering another drink at the party, and he just goes, oh, and like, oh, it's out. His fork. And looks at her and it's so listen, it's like basically like, are you fucking kidding me? Like another one. It's so good. It's so good. It's it's it's it's and it's yeah, there's so much but I guess. Yeah, I mean because I don't know how we're going to, but we'll find our way. We always do. But, should we talk about some of the, other things before the movie? Yeah, yeah, I'm going to talk about a little of how we got here because we've circled we've talked about Hal Ashby a lot. He got mentioned really early on in the podcast because you said your mom's favorite movie was Harold and Maude to this day, too, by Hal Ashby. I love it. So this guy, I love Ashby. So much. He was a singular talent of the new Hollywood film movement. But he started as an editor. Did the Cincinnati Kid, he cut The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming. He wins the Best Editing Oscar for cutting in the heat of the night. He edits the Thomas Crown Affair. Then he jumps to directing in 1970, and he makes seven films in the 1970s, all of which are considered widely considered as modern classics of cinema. I don't have the highest love of all of them, but, they are revered. All of them. The landlord in 1970, I just sold for the first time researching this. Found it on YouTube hilarious. It's a Beau Bridges. It's like, becomes a landlord of, kind of like a bad apartment in a bad area of town. And he's this rich, WASPy guy, and he's like, oh, you know, the fish out of water thing, but it's a comedy. And then his mom is Lee Grant, who's Felicia and Shampoo, and she is just great. It's so funny. The landlord, Harold and Maude in 1971, The Last Detail, which we just talked about a lot in a previous episode, Chinatown Shampoo, 1975. Bound for glory. In 1976, the first use of the Steadicam ever in a movie was Coming Home. Yeah, coming Home in 1978. Big Oscar movie. Being there in 1979 with Peter Sellers, a truly beautiful movie. These are all considered great films. They're all nominated for Oscars except Harold and Maude, which feels like an oversight. Like, how do you not know? They didn't know. They didn't know what they were dealing with. They didn't know what it was. Clearly, it's that movie's way out there and way ahead of its time. And then to round out Ashby, unfortunately, out of the 70s, things change pretty drastically. He gave us four more films, the first three second hand hearts Looking to Get out and The Slugger's wife are not good. The stories, the plotting, the actors, everything feels cartoonish, and none of the magic he showed us in the 70s is evidence in this. I watched all these for the first time researching this because I hadn't seen those then. His last film in 1986 is 8 Million Ways to Die, a genre crime thriller about an alcoholic cop. It's not perfect, but I kind of love it. It's Jeff Bridges playing the cop Rosanna Arquette. It's Andy Garcia's first movie, co-written by Oliver Stone. I found out about this movie because Quentin Tarantino reps it really, really hard. Not perfect, but it is. It's a much better movie than the three he made before. So 8 Million Ways to Die was his final movie because he died in December 1988 from pancreatic cancer, but his films will live forever. So I'm so excited that we are finally dedicating an entire episode to an actual movie. Oh yeah. And then, not dissimilar to Chinatown. Chinatown. To me, it's not a Polanski movie. Shampoo isn't really a Hal Ashby movie. It's more of a Robert Towne Warren Beatty movie, because Warren Beatty hired his buddy Robert Towne to write the script with him. They have screenwriting credit. They share credit. Beatty is the producer. So we talked about towns career a lot in the Chinatown episode, but it's really the Warren Beatty hiring him. This is very, very integral because like Jack in Chinatown and 1975, Warren Beatty is at his peak power in Hollywood Peak, handsomeness peak, you know, lure of his sexual conquests, all that stuff he's producing. He produced and starred in Bonnie and Clyde in 1967. That movie changed cinema and started the New Hollywood movement. He takes sparse acting parts with notable turns in McCabe and Mrs. Miller with Julie Christie and The Parallax View, maybe my favorite political thriller ever. From the director of Klute, he recruits Robert Towne to help him. Right. Shampoo and I. I love all of his work in it as a writer, as a producer, and as an actor. I think George is an enigma, all of him. I love his performance, all the things. I mean, we're going to get to some of his line readings, but Jesus Christ, oh my God, it's so great. And then I mean, a stacked supporting cast. Julie Christie as Jackie, Goldie Hawn as Jill the great. Lee Grant as Felicia. Jack Warden as Lester. All right, so here we go. Yeah. Jack. Oh, here we go. Here's a logline George is sleeping with Felicia, who is married to Lester. George also has a girlfriend, Jill, who is best friends with George's ex, Jackie, who is having an affair with Lester. Got it. Oh, and George wants a loan from Lester without him finding out about Jackie or Felicia. What's hard about that? It took me like five minutes to write that because I would wait, who's with you again? Like, it's. That's part of the fun of it. It's George and Felicia and Lester and Jackie and Jill. And then we get Johnny who comes in, and it's it's just it's great. I that's part really the whole, the whole mash up of everything. It's definitely the confusion is part of the movie. It's part of the joy of the movie. It's, it's it's a movie that moves unlike any other. It's and it's all because of George. It's all at the. It's all at the, the the whimsy of George and, and you just like. Like it's okay. I guess with the opening scene, I gotta do one thing before the opening scene. But you. That's all right. No, go for it. You want to do, you go. Okay. It's important. Okay. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's important. Yes, it's I promise, I promise. It's important. Why would a movie release in 1975 set itself in 1968 without ever really explicitly mentioning. We get a title card early on that says election night 19 or election eve 1968, but then it's never really explicitly mentioned there. The TVs are on a lot. We're hearing political stuff on the radio. So I want to put into context 1968 in America, I'm a fan of history, as you know. So I want to put into context why they put this, why they set shampoo in. They did. And I promise bullet points real quick. 1968 by, you know, election eve time. So leading up to when shampoo takes place, Johnson announces he won't seek reelection. Vietnam is reaching an all time high. Martin Luther King is assassinated. Civil rights riots explode. RFK is a Democratic, anti-war savior. He's going to end Vietnam. Vice President Hubert Humphrey decides to run. RFK is assassinated. Humphrey was not in a primary, but he gets enough delegates. Democrats are pissed about this. This leads to the 1968 Democratic National Convention, where there are riots. There are massive protests, a massive police response. This is what leads to the trial of the Chicago seven. George Wallace runs as an independent. He is a staunch segregationist. Nixon wins the tight election. After the election, Vietnam peaks, Wallace gets shot, Nixon resigns, and America lives happily ever after. No problems, no notes. But genuinely, no one in shampoo ever appears to give a shit about any of this. Despite the news and the election results constantly being on television. Yeah, the political turmoil is never realized in the film itself. Instead, it's all a metaphor for for instance, everyone in shampoo is sleeping with everyone else, but no one's happy. So it's this complete chaos without any sort of fulfillment. Like America in 1968. In America, 1968, we are ending the free love hippie revolution that crashes when Nixon is elected. The that morning after hazy feeling. And shampoo is a movie we are going to spoil, so we're going to spoil it. Fair warning I know not a lot of people have seen this, so we're going to spoil it. But the movie ends in this morning after fog, this morning after haze. Kind of like the country felt after Nixon won. In the movie, George realizes that his carefree, free love, easy spirit, 1960s lifestyle is gone now. What? Yeah, that's why I think they said it. And I think it's brilliant to never have them. It is getting in debates about Johnson, Nixon, Vietnam. I don't even know Vietnam's ever said like explicitly maybe on the news. So that's all that I just wanted to set. Like this is where shampoo is set and this is where the country is. And then we begin our story. It's just a fascinating place to time and place to set a story like this. You know, I, I, thoughts of that had occurred to me when I was watching it, particularly the morning of when Jack warden is talking to George because that's the morning election, like the speech that Nixon's given, he just won. And and of course, I, I've been following throughout this whole entire movie that, oh, this election is happening and this is the like this is the election where Nixon wins. But to kind of see it, how it all is to your point, that metaphor for that next morning because like, I think we've all lived now enough to where we've had some election mornings that fall out from the next day. That's a real day. Like, that's a real feeling. And I'm not that. Yeah, I don't want to get overtly political, but we know what I was no, but no, but we were both in LA in November 2016. The town was like a fucking ghost town. The morning after that election, people looked like they had been shot like it reminded me a lot of this. Like a lot of that feeling that America must have been feeling anyways. So yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. And and and that election was actually a lot of it is very different than this past one in LA, for different reasons. But it was more like that first one like that, that the, the way the, there is, there was a confusing haze in that first election in LA. The this one wasn't confusing. This was just more anger. But, yeah. Because I, you do know this at the end with because the movie just takes a drastic turn in the way that it's filmed, like the cinematography work. We're I mean, we're in these these big car chases and things like that, but, like, we're zooming out a lot. We're not we're not pulling in any more. We're, we're and it and it's it's jarring. I remember watching it and I'm like, I don't like this feeling like like we have taken a tonal departure and the stakes are not very high. Like, it doesn't feel like it, you know. But it's not until you get to the very end when you realize that there's something a lot more serious going on, and it's posited through that main character. But now that you bring all that up, I'm getting just like this overall feeling of like what the bigness of this was, is that this isn't just a guy who's like, ran out of options. Even though I'm sure it for him, it feels catastrophic. But now that you kind of bring all this in to there, there is a feeling of the movie where you're like, oh, there is something that just got lost and now there is a point of no return. What where do we go now? But the sun is not shining. It's a cloudy day. And, and I don't know if anyone else feels like this, but, like, I've lived in LA for almost 20 years. I really do not like cloudy days here. I don't mind a rainy day, but when it's just cloudy. This city was not meant for gray. It could be drastic down. And that's better than just a cloudy day. And this gave me that feeling. I was like oh God, that's a horrible looking feel for the city. And this movie's capturing it beautifully. And yes, so that's a I love that. Thank you for, stopping the initial run. We were going to go on to bring that up because I was trying to I was trying to kind of like suss that out for myself in terms of like, what is this election doing here that makes it such if anything, it's the foundation of the whole thing. Like, this election is happening around all this fun. I mean, a lot of people are getting their feelings hurt, but the tone of it is fun. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you can't, set aside Warren Beatty's personal politics. He was extremely politically active in this time, so you know it. All this stuff is connected. And the movie was released in 1975. It's set in 1968. They filmed it in 1974 as Nixon is in his Watergate downfall. So when they're filming this, Nixon is not in a good place. When they're editing, Nixon resigns. And but when the movie's in theaters in February 1975, Ford is president. So they couldn't have known, like, all this stuff. It just it fits in perfectly. And that is, I think, one of the reasons this movie was an absolute smash hit. It made a shitload of money for the time. It was the third highest grossing movie behind Jaws and Cuckoo's Nest. That's nuts. Like it made so much money and I think people were just really into it, and I wish it. I don't know, I just wish it would have survived and had one of those legacies that goes on and on. But it really doesn't. Yeah, because there's no real there's no forget it. Jake, it's Chinatown. No, chicken salad sandwich. No. Is it safe? There's no big standout scene like that because the whole movie is just like you're just going. It's just a hangout movie. And maybe that's why, I don't know. It's. It's like a weird fever dream, but not like anxiety. It's it's it's it's all just this sort of like cloud of. And I can't say enough good things about Warren. Bad. It's why I wanted to see this movie again is because you don't. I really don't think you get that. If he's not exactly how he is. And as this character, this guy is so aloof. Yeah, like he is the epitome of air. Like he's just got, like he's being taken by this person, taken by this person. He is literally just floating in whatever direction. But he loves it. But you also don't really know it either. Like there's like he says it eventually and I love that. And monologue he has is such an honest, oh, it's so good. It's so good. But, yeah, we're jumping around. Let's, All right. Let's try to track. Let's try to track it. Yeah. November 4th, 1968. Election eve is when we begin. And real quick, in 1951, a young actress named Lee Grant was in her first movie, Detective Story. She was nominated for it. She's in a few other movies. She was in the Peyton Place TV show, and then she was blacklisted for refusing to name names in the House un-American shack hearings. She's blacklist for that does not work. For 12 years. Done. Gone. She bounces back, gets a few roles, lands this role in shampoo, and goes on to win the fucking Oscar for her role as Felicia. And what is the first thing that she is doing? It's shampoo. Second one we get Beach Boys and banging and Lee Grant right in the dark is absolutely fucking going for it. I mean it, what is it? Is it reductive or rude to say brave? Is that like. But I mean, she's fucking going for it with her voice and what she's you know, experiencing at the behest of Mr. George, played by Warren Beatty. And it's just really something. It is a hell of a way to begin a movie. Just remember. I mean, like, oh, okay, so this is this is what we're doing. And, it's just so funny, though, lady. She's like the headboards. The other gotta move the headboard, smacking my head up against, the the phone's ringing. You know. Yeah. This is the phone. She lights up a joint. I love Lee Grant as Felicia, but, yeah, I mean, the phone rings and immediately he just kind of, like, rush out and, speaking to this aloofness, like, I have so many of these little lines of dialog laid out. But what she's like when he's like, no, this girl's different, you know, she has attacks and he's like, I know she has something wrong. And she's like, is that a pancreatic ulcer? Yeah, yeah, I think so. That's very serious. I know who's her doctor I don't know. That's very serious I know. So it's yeah, it's I don't know. It's one of those girls. You're going to see one of those girls. Girl. She's not a girl. She's just a friend of mine. Wait. At least wait till I'm dressed because I'm going to, Oh, Christ. Get me a Kleenex, but I won't be long. Listen, if you're gray, believe me, this girl is different. Oh, she has a tax. What a tax. He's a tax. It's got something to do with your, pancreas. Oh. She's got a pancreatic ulcer. Yeah, yeah, I think so. It's very serious. I know who's your doctor. I don't know, it's very serious. I know ruthless woman had a pancreatic ulcer. She did. It turned out to be a cancer. Wow. So, what are you going? I know, just making shit up as he goes. Like I got to go see my friend. No, this is your legit. Apparently your legit girlfriend that you tell? Yeah, well, Jill, played by Goldie Hawn and it's just fucking great. So yeah, just Felicia, the older woman. Felicia. Then he's on the bike going across town, Beverly Hills at night. I love Hank, and then. And then he tells her like that he's going to be right back. And he's like, no, no. He goes to Jill's. That's his current girlfriend. I love, like, when you rewatch it a few times, it was it wasn't until this viewing that I picked it up, but they are play wrestling a little bit and you can tell she's ready to like, get a little frisky. But then he gets up and goes to cook because presumably he's, you know, a bit empty from his. Yeah, Felicia. But Jill kind of clocks at like, where's where have you been? It's I love a little things about the movie. One thing you get with this first conversation with Goldie Hawn is that George very clearly thinks all the women in his life are intellectually beneath him, and they are not. He is the goddamn doofus. Like, these women are not dumb, and he's just treating them like, hi. Yeah, you know, whatever. And, yeah, I mean, the shot at, oh, my God, the coverage of Goldie Hawn. She's sitting at the counter and the lights in the background. It's just, brilliant. I love it, but, yeah, it's great. It's a great example. We talked about this a couple times with another, there's something like the 70s. Have the best depictions of, like, LA homes, whether they're apartments. Yeah. Houses like you, you you only need to see this set once and you're like, I know where she lives. I love the look of this place. Yeah. It's just it's it's peppered all throughout LA 70s movies. They just find the exact right places to shoot. And it all looks amazing. I mean, the cinematography, production design, all this stuff. The fucking costuming, the hair and makeup. His hair is a killer hair. His hair is fantastic. And I mean the jacket, the scarf. Like the the jewelry, the boots on the belt, which is going to be very important for a key scene later. Like it's just, it's so great. But yeah, that's our first night of shampoo. They only give us that one title card, but we're now we've got, you know, two women we've heard about. We've seen them with two women. And, you know, he he does sleep at Chelsea Halsey desert jacket. Yeah. See, I have trouble remembering he sleeps in jail cells. And yeah, I go back to his. Oh no, he doesn't go back, Felicia. He does it. It's just Bo. It's the next morning in Beverly Hills. And what's George doing? He's driving. He's on his motorcycle, as we'll see in. And, I want to touch on the bank scene really quick because that is, it's just so Robert Towne to include his main characters, dealing with the roadblocks of bureaucracy. Like it just he loves doing that shit. And I love that George absolutely feels like the King of Beverly Hills. But he has. He doesn't mean shit. He can't even get a loan for a bank. Like what? You know, I don't love that. I. I got a lot of heads. I got a lot of heads. He's like, yeah, what do you mean? I'm just like, oh, it's. And I love in the way they cut, between him and all the other people in there. Like day is very, very good. Yeah. Unlike Chinatown I, I because I watched Chinatown and then I did shampoo and, you know, both written by Robert Towne with knowing who the lead actors were going to be. And then I actually kept time of how much Warren Beatty was not in shampoo, because he's not in the whole thing, and it's about an hour and 50 minutes long, five zero, and he is not in 21 minutes, which is kind of cool. And this is where I really start to feel that, oh, you know, Tarantino studied this shit for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where we're just, you know, Jill is taking her meeting with the director. Oh, we want to send you to Egypt for a role. And then Jill's meeting up with her friend Jackie for lunch. And we're hearing through their dialog that Jackie and George used to date. Oh, okay. That's all right. That's crazy. Yeah, it's it's just great how we're cutting. We're building this world of, like, who these people are. Yep. And then to your point, though, there's only like, like only a few settings that we ever actually see, but yet we're learning about who, like Lester is. And then we meet Lester. So there is a natural way that all of these characters kind of come to find each other. But it is all through like this very sort of like he said. She said, I know this person who knows this person because because his Lester's is sort of like his George. He's, he's a hair cutter, right? Like he has hair. And it's a great gag that he assumes right away that he's gay because he's gay hair. And. Yeah. So because Felicia is like, well, you should ask my husband for the money. Like, don't go to the bank. Ask him. He's rich. So now now George is in a position where he's gotta go. And, I mean, I'm getting all I'm getting a little ahead of myself because we haven't even. We have to. He goes to the shop. Yeah. And I'm going to that shop when he steps foot in that shop. Those scenes are just absolute priceless chaos. There are so many things going on. I told you to get your hair washed. What are you doing? Oh, Felicia's there, like he's working on her. I love the long takes of the conversation's doing ten things at once. You know, Lee Grant screaming at him. You need to cut Mary her. It's all this stuff. Jill drops in when he's talking to Felicia. It's great. And he has a boss, like, yeah, he's got Norman. Norman runs a shop in Norman's on his. That's where you've been. I got a lot of heads, Norman. Come on, I can't, I can't do this. And he's he's doing like ten, 10% of ten different things as opposed to doing 100% of one thing. And I mean, I love when Jill, when she comes in that she's talking to her. And then Felicia goes, George is she's the one with the pancreatic ulcer. He goes, I don't know this kid. Yeah, fucking. He just goes, I don't know. It's like, hey, listen baby, I'm a star. I'm a star, George. Hey, baby. You know, I always said, oh, George, when can we talk some random little work? Now, I know, but this is important. I have a decision to make. About whether or not I'm going. Onward. Egypt. Honey, did they owe me the job? You know, but. But I think they might wait. What went on? I don't know why she. The one with the pancreatic, I don't know. They did not give you the job. I still want your feelings about it. But, yeah, I mean, all of it. The production design, Robert Richard Silbert. Oh, my God, he just did such a great job. And. But all of it. The costume, how it's all white, like. Yeah. And very, very important to mention that he does indeed have a boss that again, he may feel like the king, but he ain't king of shit. He's not running. No. And and he shows up whenever he wants. He has this attitude, you know, because like like clearly like he's late, you know, he shows up there and the boss is like, where have you been? Like when? And then he's like, I. And then he like, goes like leaves. Like very shortly thereafter, he's like, I got it. I got places I got to be in. And. And so you can't just come here and leave. But yeah, he's not he's not in control of his world at all. He is. He likes to think that he is. And in some ways, he is because he is successful with these women. But but he doesn't really have a choice in it. They're just it's all happening and he just goes with it. Yeah, I think that's what he likes. But he cannot land anywhere. He like he, he's he's he's just too far. Like he's the great line. You're you're you're moving so fast but you're not going anywhere. And that's exactly what he's doing. And Jill sees him I think more than anyone else does I agree, and I think he thinks she's the dumbest among everyone in the movie. And she's not. She sees it. And yeah, she's in there. She's trying to tell him about. They're trying to send me to Egypt. Felicia is in there. Here's what Felicia is like. Just go talk to Lester for the money. So he's like, you know. So? So now he's. He leaves to sweetshop. Yeah, and goes to Lester's office, and here's Jack warden. And yeah, I loved it. He immediately assumes he's gay because he is, because of his profession, completely oblivious to the fact that not only is George sleeping with Lester's wife, Felicia, he has also slept with Lester's mistress, Jackie before. And Jackie just stormed into the scene. Yeah, they have to pretend like, oh yeah, like, do do we know each other? Do we say we know each other? Like, what's going on? And then you. I always love when the the shithead older guy is having the affair, but he's jealous of the mistress. It's like, bro, you're the one having the affair. I love how jealousy is a Jackie. There's also something to be said in all these scenes. This is a true masterclass in blocking. Oh, the movie is astoundingly blocked. Laszlo Kovacs yes, amazing DP. He did five Easy Pieces. Yeah, amazing. It's, because it ends in. This is a great example of when we're in that Jack Wagner's house, because you have a lot of people coming in and out, and you've got a lot of, you know, information that's some people know, some people don't. And it's all being moved around the room. And it's, it's it's seamless and you're along the ride. That's why it's so it's a breeze to watch this, but they're very well, could it be it could be clunky. It could be very, very confusing. And yet it just feels so free. And you have to work very hard to kind of get that level of, of, seamlessness when you're talking. And then forget about when we get to the party scene, I oh my God, you add in all these extras and you add in all these other things like music. This is a very and even in the, even in the, in the salon, from person to person coming in and out, it's like you feel the stress of that's on George base out of every single person. Then he just like shoos some person away to bring on some person who comes on to camera. And now I gotta deal with you. I don't know, and he's going to keep going. It's. Yeah, it's very, very well that's Hal Ashby though. Like it's just like, oh yeah, it's overlapping. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. The overlapping of everything. And it's there isn't a whole lot of plot going on. But essentially Lester is like, hey George, you know, since you are gay, you just say that, oh, yeah, I trust this guy to take my mistress, Jackie, to this party tonight. This, you know, Republican Party. Fancy thing that his wife is also going to be at in George's, like, I'm not going to be your beard so that you can, you know, I can escort you around this party. You know, I don't fuck for money. I do it for fun. Oh, my. And then so it's so good. So he and Julie Christie, you know, Jackie, they're getting this big argument and the I love the argument ends with hey, you want me to do your hair like he feels bad? Do you like it? That's what he gets. So he just adds so many things I want to do. Your hair. God. And then pretty shortly after, when we. It's one of the. My favorite shots, we got back to him in the shop, blow drying the woman's hair. Oh, it's you, like, bent over with her, bent over it, his crotch, and he's like, you're sourcing your hair. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? It's the, it's the steel frame. But I put it by criteria. I'd like for the bed. You. That's the picture. That's off it. I was just die laughing. I love, I think so much. I think that's the defining shot of the movie. Yeah, I because it it's, it actually says a lot though, because like, that girl is hilarious that actress because she's just talking about her life like she's complaining about like, you know, like it's. But it's what he says. These guys, these women just talk to me. They just talk and and she's talking about like, like post mortem and and she's like, I just need, I like, I can't just jump into the sack after this. Like, I just need some tenderness. And he's just like, But like, he's also very caring, you know, like, you like, you know, it's a very it's a very lewd looking shot. But when you actually look at she's very trusting to be in his capable hands, and because he's really just doing her hair, like, yeah, all he cares about, but but it's also as, like, seductive and racy as the shot actually seems. There's so much living in that moment where it was like, it looks like how it looks, but it's also very safe and it's also very sweet and is also very funny. It's got everything. It's just it's it's like right away when you just cut into it, no one has to say anything. You just see it. You start dying laughing. Yeah, it's just hysterical. And of course, because he's agreed to do Jackie's hair, he's kind of like rush really quick. And then one of my favorite gags and it's not made a thing is him talking that blow dryer into his belt like it's a gun and then jiving with it, jumping on the bike like that is some of the that is, it's little things like these that when I was done watching it for the first time, they never left my mind. And I'm like, I gotta go back and see that. I honestly, I just want to go back and look at that hair. It's like it's yeah, it's so crazy. It good and, bad. It's just. Yeah. So he goes to Jackie's and you know, he's doing the hair is. So I love what he does. Her hair and she's like Jesus. And he goes, yeah. Like he's so confident in his work. And you know, honey, you look like a hooker. And he just does the whole thing. Yes. Love that. He just like, with what he sees, like where the wild. And he doesn't like their hair. He's like, you're you're stretching out on me. And they go, I don't know, God, what do you do? But and you know, we get to little the fun like, comedy cross-cutting thing of like, Lester's driving over, but George and Jackie are about to go at it, and and then that's just a great gag that he's Lester's like, Okay, what's going on in here? And opens the door. And, you know, George pretends to be gay again and puts on his little accent, but then, you know, come in or get out. You're letting all the steam out. It's just. Yeah, yeah. I'll go. Larry. Like playing into Lester's naivete of, like, hey, if this guy thinks I'm. I haven't slept with his mistress and I'm not currently sleeping with his wife, I may as well play into it. That's great. I mean, it's it's fantastic. And, and and then, yeah, we, we talked about the Carrie Fisher. Well, I'm getting to that. Yeah. That's that's next because we did have a little. Oh we saw her briefly when she, she's with her parents. So we've seen her briefly. But then what's hilarious is like, so Lester's just driven to his mistress's house, Jackie. And then George has to scurry out because he's technically going to Lester. She's going to Felicia's hair, and Lester's the Felicia. The great Lee Grant is not there. Who's there? Her daughter, played by a baby faced 17 year old Carrie Fisher in her first performance. And they have, interesting, you know, conversation in the kitchen. And then that leads to, I don't know, what do you think happened? She says flat out. Yeah. And then we cut I don't, you know, George's George, but it's it's it's a fun scene to talk about. So let's talk about it because I mean it. Well on one end is actually like I actually really enjoyed Carrie Fisher's performance in it because there's some genuine fun moments between there back and forth. It's also one of the one times where we actually hear George say the most. Like he, he's actually talking and he's having fun with her like he's like you look like your mom. She's like no I don't, I look nothing like her. I never get so mad. Yeah. Haired to her mom she's like I'm not like her. Yeah. And I mean yes there's some language in that scene that wouldn't be done today. It was of the time. I still think it's, you know, it's all fairly innocent because the whole movie is fairly innocent, but it is colorful to say the least, but still holds a weight, though, like, it's not being said, like, hey, you're a blank, blank look, it's not it's no, no, she's using intention behind it, I think to pull them and to get to get to him. So it's not it's not hollow. But yeah, they're words you don't hear now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think he also doesn't care like I mean I think he knows and he's a sort of like why is that matter. No. Yeah sure. Yeah. Whatever you want. Whatever you think. So yes. Is she Carrie Fisher says do you want to boom. And then we cut because Felicia's coming home. So now again, we're in this other pratfall of, like, these two are doing something in a room. Felicia walks into her house, can't find George, can't find anybody. It's a really telling moment. She opens the door to her daughter's bedroom. Bedroom? Lorena, played by Carrie Fisher. She's sitting on the bed. There is very precise acting in there, sharing like how? What's going on and look. Then George comes out of her bathroom in her bedroom, and he is adjusting his belt and that's what it is. So what happened? I don't know. But then, moreover, no one says anything. He just looks at Felicia and he's like, And then goes out and does her hair like it. That's it's so crazy. And then. But no. And then she goes into sex with him like she's she's like, I should have been the b c this is what I viewed that this time as a similar type of test that Goldie Hawn was doing, like maybe trying to see, can I have sex with him because or is he emptied from. But then they cut. So you don't know like if they went at it. So it's all these things. It's like, well then if they did then he didn't do anything with her. No, I think I think he did both. You think he's, he's twice and that short of succession. Because he doesn't do that the night before with Felicia and Goldie Hawn I don't know man. No he doesn't I don't think he does that the night before. But I think he does that here. Well that's a lot to put into it. That's a lot to put in. But that's that's what that's his situation because he doesn't because the entire time she's on him. This is so funny to talk about because the entire time that she's on Alec trying to get him, he's sort of like, no, no, no, I don't know, you know, he's and if she's not going to take no for an answer. Yeah. I love that that we cut so we don't actually know. And then I'm jumping all the way to the end here because we're going to stick on the topic of Lorna Jack warden. She says right before he leaves, would you like me to say hi to Lorna for you? Because, you know, George brings up like they she doesn't like her like, no, she doesn't like your daughter. Does not like your wife. Yeah. And it makes me wonder, does Jack warden know something I don't know, it's a very mysterious thing. Or maybe it's not. Maybe people's interpretations are. No, he absolutely did it. But it's fascinating how no one says anything. And then. Felicia. Yeah, just right away, it's like, come into my bedroom and he's like, now, Yeah. God, George. George. Yeah. And yeah, we cut, we cut from them. And. Ben, where is he? He's back on the bike. He goes to his place. Jill is waiting. They argue. This is where he's like, I'm trying, honey, I just can't get out of my own way. Yeah. That she finds Felicia's earring. Yeah. Not very clean. This is sloppy guys. And sloppy guy. Good. Yeah. He's. No, he's not. He's not a smart guy. He's not at all like there's a lot of strengths. And, you know, this is a great example of, of like, you know, characters where it's like I think his biggest passion comes from hair. Like he's oh, it lights him up every time he talks about it, every time he's dealing with it. And then we don't actually get his point of view on. Well, he does he does make some comments here. And there, but it's not until the end monologue where we really find out a lot about where he's kind of coming from. But we do see and people are always talking about him like there's lines that are dropped about him, which he's like, I love how just like how always happy you are and how carefree you are. And these are all things that he has. But like smart, is not one of them. Right. And he's a really he can wield a blow dryer. He could cut a hair better than the rest, but man, that guy cannot put two and two together. No. Yes. Not at all. In the end, he's just willingly going into, like, just stay home tonight, dude. Why not just stay? Yeah, but, like, don't do anything but know on election night, he goes to the bistro for the party. And this I mean, the dichotomy of these parties are just brilliant because this is. Yeah, this is a hardcore Republican setting. Like black Tie. Nixon's face is all over the wall. The returns are in. If he loses the state, you hear groans in the crowd. We have a new character who's been introduced because Jill is going to the party with Johnny, the director she might go to Egypt with. And now George is jealous. Jealous of this guy. And these are ex commercials. He's laughed so hard that he's directing commercials and all these layers. Like, of course Lester thinks George is there because he's the gay friend of Jackie, so he's pretending to be the beard. But now we get this new thing of Jackie shouldn't drink too much, and she starts slamming booze right away. Yeah, so, I mean, slamming the wine now Felicia shows up. So they're all talking to, the gag of Felicia showing up and her and Jackie meeting, and they have the same style. It's just it's perfect. It's a great, great gag. And then why not this interaction? Why did you have to break Jackie? She's a friend of Jill's. Who's Jill? She's a friend of Johnny pokes the director like he just met Johnny Pope like 30s ago. And, this spirit that, you know, Felicia wants to go to the bathroom to get high with George, and Johnny's like, why is he going to the bathroom? It's just, oh, my God, Jackie's drunk and throwing food at Lester. All these awkward pair ups are perfect. My favorite. One of my favorite moments is when she's throwing food at his head. And George just sort of like, it's not even like he tracks it from across the room and then tries to stop, but he stumbles into it and sees it and he just goes, oh no, no, no, no, no. And he just kind of like grabs her and moves there because he's like, oh no, you don't want to do that. No, no, no, you got to go over here like his like just like it's so it's so refreshing to watch an actor just like make these choices that are you just don't see these choices being made, like. Yeah, it's just the he just finds himself in these situations. And then because he knows he's trying to watch her like he knows what he knows, like he's been told, make sure she doesn't drink and he's got that reaction as like, oh, that's going to be a tough road to hoe. But then like when he does find himself in situations where he can, he's like, oh he she shouldn't be thrown. That's, that's no, no, you got to come over here. It's just knowing how much of like a perfectionist Warren Beatty is and he is like obsessed about his image in the roles that he just willingly plays. A guy like this who never, like, has a big screaming moment, never does anything. He's just always kind of a louche and aloof. And again, I know I mentioned it, but if I, if we could just bottle that reaction of him, which she orders with Julie, Christie orders another drink and he just leans back. It's cos it looks. It's also maybe fun to keep in mind they were dating at this time. Julie Christie is largely credited to being the first one to tame the wild Warren baby, and so they were together during this time. I think they'd been. They were together in McCabe and Mrs. Miller and stayed together through this and I that's just it's an another interesting dynamic to think about because that thing feels so lifted. That scarf of like, come on. Like really another one is, I don't know, it just feels lived in. Another reason, it is speculated that another reason this movie made so much money is that no one had really ever heard the kind of language that Julie Christie uses in this scene, when she describes what she wants to do to Warren Beatty. By all accounts, no woman has ever really spoken like that in a studio movie. And they think historians, whomever credits a lot of the box office success of people wanting to go to hear Julie Christie say that, and it is hysterical, and it just keeps going. She's under the table like, yeah, you're right, like this is all it's all very taboo stuff. This is why, you know what? I think probably the reason why this is in our conversation to kind of skip ahead to our our new project series, questioning. But this is a big part of the reason why this is that 70s kind of movie. Yeah, it's racy without being like like in your face. And it is in her face, but it's not it's not gratuitous, even though it's sometimes it does feel like that. It's crazy. It's a very that's why this movie is so fascinating is because there's like, you can't you can't put it in any kind of box at all. Yeah, there's I really wanted, to show this to Allie before we recorded. We just didn't have time because I would love to get her opinion on it. But, yeah, there's no gratuitous nudity, with the exception of the sounds you hear in the first scene. There's no sex. Yeah, there's no violence. There's no I mean, there there is. I mean the language. Yeah, but it's not. It's a hard movie to describe to people because it's just like this vibe, this long vibe that is going on and on. And you get little Lee Grant, who's now all stoned and just called Lester out. She's going to be very, very expensive. And the last time we see her is when she, you know, leaves him there and flicks him off. And Lester's all drunk and he's got to catch a ride with Johnny and Jill and Johnny's tiny car. I love you swiped that bottle of champagne. He's like, all right, we'll stop over. Drink. They're nice. So I love when when Johnny Pope gets in, he just see these, like, hi, what are we doing? What are we doing? It's like, what are we doing? Everything looks so smushed, so cramped. There's the scene before they leave the party where Jack warden is drunk. Dealing with I forgot. Is it Felicia or is it? I see this is how it is. And they're just having, like, this back and forth, and. And then he's talking to one guy he's on this story is like, I wrote it down. He goes 40 of them all blind, stumbling all over the place, talking to these kids, 40 of them all blind and all over. So he goes, but it was good. It was good. You know, like, we we got what we needed in there, you know, it was a very good cause when. So, you know, he's kind of like he's acting a little bit as an MC at the Republican Party. You know, that fucking weird senator with, like, his chance. What's going on? But that's just. So you see, when you go to those places, I know, I know, you see, and everyone's just sitting there like, quietly applauding and you're like, oh fuck, yeah, yeah, that. But then where he is so in his element, I love the fish out of water element. He is at Sammy's party in the hills when he's just walking around like he sees people at first, just like smoking joints. And he's like, what the fuck? Like, all right. And then they're, you know, naked in the Jacuzzi, get in. And he's like, yeah, why not love him? I just love watching him walk around like, all right, all right. You know, he in a lot of ways is actually like, you know, a very similar to George in terms of that ability to kind of just go with the flow, even though he is like, George just completely lives his life by it. I think Lester does. But like, he doesn't know that he does or because he's confused by George. It's like he goes, who is this guy? But he can't help but like is every time George is involved, he is the one reach and he goes, now let's invite him. Now. Yeah. Like, I think there's something that that Lester actually likes about George is that he might see himself in some sort of way because he's sort of like, I want to give this guy alone. I don't know what it is. He's gay. Right? Yeah. Frigo. Yeah, yeah. Come over here. Make sure you do this. Even when he gets him at the end, you know, he's still. We still we don't know if he's actually going to give him the money or not, but he's always like, oh, maybe now it was. It definitely wasn't now. But maybe I will I don't know. Yeah. When he, you know before he gets in the Jacuzzi they're like yeah, go get a towel. Like near the tennis court. Meanwhile George and Jackie have strolled off to the guest house off the tennis court. They start getting frisky in this guest house. And it's just it might be my favorite little section of the movie that they're going at it on the floor. Jack Warden comes up to get a towel. He peeks in and you just enjoying the show. And then Jill and Johnny walk up and he goes in, ooh, ooh, let's do that. That's when I go, fuck! My bedroom. I want to. Come on. The refrigerator door opens. He sees that it's George who is indeed not gay, and his beloved Jackie, who he is extremely jealous over, and he just storms out. Jill isn't pleased either. Just, you know, I love it. Oh, she throws the chair through there. I love that she throws a chair, but he goes, oh honey, where you been? I've been looking everywhere for you. Like as he's getting off of Julie Christie and buckling his pants about. Honey, where are you been? Like, this is so good. Is it? Yeah. The thing of he runs after Jill loses her, then he runs back to get Jackie, who then has to run back. It's just chaos. It's going back forth, back forth. It's so good. And at some point during all of this, Nixon has been elected. No one. Yeah, it is so funny because he's like, he's putting on his pants. He goes, what should I do? Asking Jackie, what should I do? Yes, I should go after her. Right? Yeah, I should probably what what do you think? It's it's so good. And the other running back forth back for it. He just. Whatever is in front of him is what he does. He's never thinking more than, maybe a half step ahead. No. Ever. And it's. And that's what I mean. Like, Warren Beatty did a lot of work to make this character feel effortless. Yeah, because this takes so much specificity. Because if you've ever seen any of Warren Beatty's other work, like he's a great actor, but like, this is not like this is this is like really something else that this is why I love it so much. Like, I mean, yeah, he never did this type of aloofness. I mean, my baby, my second favorite performance for him was the year before in The Parallax View. And he's like, he's just this investigative journalist trying to figure out this assassination. It's not in this register at all. That's one of the reasons why I love shampoo so much. And I love the scene. Our next scene, it's like, this is the official morning after. Yeah. And Joe Joe comes over to his house to talk. And I just love baby in the scene. This is when I mean, he's sitting there and I love just be honest with me, tell me the truth. And he stutters and stammers and he just goes, I don't want girls looking at me and knowing and me not knowing. Please don't know. It'll help me. Really. Please. It'll help me if you tell me. Because I don't know that you've lied to me all along. And I'll know that you're incapable of love, and that'll help me. It'll do any good. I just, you know, I have. You really want to know? Yes. There were a couple, I mean, there were, I there were. There's. Let's face it, I fucked them all. I mean, that's what I do. That's why I went to beauty school. I mean, they're always there, and I just, I, you know, I, I don't know what I'm apologizing for, so sometimes I fuck them and it's like, yeah, I love his delivery of that. Because just right here for that one sentence, to me, there's nothing accomplished. He's not bragging. He's it's no pride. It's just finally the truth. And then like 15 seconds later, the pride kicks back in and he's back to like, I did it or whatever. And he's so big and handling everything so poorly that he is on his way to losing everything. When the movie started, he thought he had it all, and now he's going to lose every woman and could very well end up, you know, losing the loan he could have had had he behaved himself. I just yeah, it's just the honesty of it is it's, it's great because like he even says like, you know, I just work in these hairdressers and it's like they just they just come to me and, and and like he says, it makes me feel like I'm going to live forever. And that's just a very, very honest thing to say. And even that's Goldie Hawn's response to it. She's not I mean, she's definitely not pleased. She's disappointed, but she's she's not mad in that moment because she even like, thanks him. She's like, thank you for being honest. And you can go now. You know, actually that's that's it. Yeah. Because like, yeah. And then we come back around and now back on the bike. Yeah. He's back on the bike yet again. And he goes to his own home. Keep in mind he likely has not slept. And Lester and his goons are waiting for him. Yeah. And this is where we get another honest moment. He's just sort of like. I like like she. Lester is trying to figure something out, and he. And he's like, make you like me. And. Yeah, like, they all talk like every single one of these women talk about the same thing, about how a guy is like, fuck them over. Yeah. He's like, I listen to women talk all day, and the only thing they talk about is how some guy fucked him over. That's it. Yeah. And then I love that Jack warden goes, well, I can't disagree with you there. He says something like that, like. Yeah, but yeah, he's kind of. I love the guys. You know, George seems a little scared like these guys. Are they, like, here to hurt me? Like, is this, you know, Nixon's giving the speech on TV. The speech one. And this is really the only time politics are directly reference. But it's still I mean, the only political statement is essentially amounts to, I don't know, they're all a bunch of jerks. Like, that's it. It's just sad. Whatever. Doesn't matter. Jack Warden just slugging back. Scotch, 8 a.m. hasn't slept. It's just fucking crushing it. And I never really thought about it before. But the way that he says. Do you want me to say hi to Lorena for you? That's Carrie Fisher. How does this guy even know that he's met Carrie Fisher? I don't know, it's it's very like. Does he know anything? Does he know about Felicia? Like, I think he does. I don't know, it's crazy. And then, yeah, you're thinking, all right, he's never going to give him the money, but then he kind of, like leaves it open, like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, whatever. We'll see. Yeah. Just leaves. Yeah, I just leave. I'm so excited to talk to you about this next part because we kind of, you expect things to kind of be wrapping up, and then we go back to the shop, and I don't know where out of nowhere we learned that, like, seemingly unimportant character Norman, that his son, who we've never met, has been killed. So there's. Yeah, we got this seems to have a profound impact on George, who does seem, for the first time, seems to be seems to be taken out of his own ship in his own, like running all the fuck around and maybe kind of figure something out of like, no, I, I want Jackie, like, I want to go off and be with her. Somebody get on the bike again. It's it's it's coupled with everything. It's what you were saying about like, this is now Nixon's time. The party's over. There's going to be a new regime of America. There's going to be. But obviously that's a little bit more forward thinking. But like, there are bigger things happening in the world than your sex capades. Yes, I think it did have like a profound effect on him in terms of like, man, I think I got to get my shit together. I think like just just hearing this bit of reality that's just there is something different when someone you know, it's like son just died and then you're over hearing and you're like, wow, okay. That's a that's a very different day for this person that they're living than what I'm living right now. And quite frankly, that like that's bigger for them. And then ultimately we have this like cloudy day whirlwind of things that are outside of his control because we find out that Lester wants to propose to Jackie, to Jackie, and she's going to say yes. Yeah, yeah. And yeah. And we're left with this guy who went basically within 24 hours now has absolutely nothing. Which kind of brings me to like the, the, you know, the, the questions of where's the movie asking if you choose nothing, does nothing choose you? Is it inevitable that if you never actually ground yourself in anything, that it becomes too late, that at that point nothing's actually going to come your way anymore? When I think about what does George do next from here, I don't think it's going to go well for him. Like I think he it's too late now. Like it literally is too late for him. Maybe he can. Maybe it's a rebuilding phase. Maybe that's the time it is to rebuild and yeah, meaningful and maybe ground yourself. Yeah, I don't know. But that, you know, so much has been made on transportation in the movie. So getting back on the bike to go to Jackie's and she kicks him out, but he won't leave. So then she leaves and he chases her in the car on the bike to go up, you know, to the to the lookout. And they have that showdown at the top of the hill. She drives away and he's watching them. It's just the Rolls Royce pulls up and he watch them drive off. It's all, it's so, so great. But yeah, the question I mean again to jump to like maybe the I think the answer it's providing or not not an answer necessarily. The political landscape I believe has a lot to do with it. And the metaphor of stealing this emptiness. And what the hell do we do now? Ness of America at the time, perhaps. And as you know, George is like kind of a proxy for that. But I love that. Yeah, if you pick nothing, you may end up alone. Like. And then when you decide you're ready, like, I want this. Yeah. It could very well be too late. Because when this movie started, you were having sex with Felicia. You went over to Jill's house because that's your girlfriend. You're on good standing with Jackie, and you were probably well on your way to getting a loan to building your own shop. Yeah, well, you're not. All those women are done. And, you know, you made it. I doubt you're ever going to see that money to open your own shop in this way. You know, in this way, one guy. So. Yeah. God, yeah. It's great. It's a great ending. Another downbeat, cynical ending from Robert Towne. Yeah. I mean, I love those those are to me the best. It's like, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, as long as they're urns like you and these are both earned, you both feel the weight of these endings. So that's shampoo. That's like. That's the whole story. I'm so glad you liked it. Like, I think with these. With these, with our new Hollywood categories, they'll it'll kind of round itself out. But I can only imagine that our last like 40 minutes was just like the movie. Just kind of like this whirlwind of. Yes. Thanks. Yeah. That's all exactly some technical aspects. Real quick for the categories I mentioned cinematographer Laszlo Kovacs, he did Easy Rider, Five Easy Pieces, Paper Moon, New York, New York, zero Oscar nominations. Great job. Production designer Richard Silber wanted to mention him because he also did Chinatown. And we're doing these episodes back to back, and that is one where the production design is equally as good. But he did Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, The Graduate, Rosemary's Baby, Carnal Knowledge, That City, Chinatown, oh wow, shampoo won Oscars for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? And Dick Tracy, actually, directed by Warren Beatty editor Robert C Jones. This is a kind of cool bit of trivia. He edited The Last Detail, shampoo Heaven Can Wait, three Oscar nominations for editing. It's a mad, mad, mad, Mad World, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, and Bound for glory? But he wins his Oscar for Best Original Screenplay for coming Home. Kind of cool. I don't know an editor who is also writing, so I just thought, those are cool little, you know, gotta give shout outs to them. The costumes, the hair, all of it. And shampoo is just great. A perfect, but yeah, let's get to the category. So y w New Hollywood categories. All right. What's your favorite thing that makes shampoo a new Hollywood movie? Well, you've sold me on your opening with the political statement of it. Yeah. To be able to and for only, like, basically 4 or 5 years removed from the actual election. Yeah. To make a metaphor for what America would then go on to become. And the confusion that still existed, I remember there was, we when we were talking about Five Easy Pieces because that movie came out in 1970 to 17 70 or 1970. And the, the wife or the ex-wife of, the director. Oh. Bob Rafelson. Yeah, yeah. Bob Rafelson she was saying that like when they were filming that movie. So like 1969, she's like, we all, as an American culture felt this unknown emptiness. And that's where she thinks that that ending lives, that ending lives in the in the, in the unknown of America. And so to kind of like, think about what this movie was doing and to so quickly point that out or reflect that, I think that makes it a, new Hollywood movie to be able to kind of like, buck up against the political establishment in such a speedy way. But then also, I think the, the free flowing taboo sexuality, but also have it not be a big deal. Yeah, it just lives there. It just captures it where I think almost anyone could watch it and just be like, oh yeah, it's cute, even though it really goes there sometimes. And yet you still don't really. It's you, like I said before, like you can't put it in a box. That's it's a really, really hard thing to do. I don't know how this movie does it. Yeah, I have the political allegory for sure, but then it's more simply, it's just a total vibes movie. It's a hangout. Yeah. It's this world building thing where, yeah, all the hot political subjects of the day are not being mentioned, and we're just listening to music, watching people drive, looking at costumes, the hair, the hair, the hair. I love all of that about it, that it it seems like this breezy, shaggy dog movie, but it's not. There's a lot more going on underneath if you, you know, just apply a little thought to it. Yeah. Is this Hal Ashby's best film? So I'll let you go first because you've only seen this one once for me, I will say no because I don't know if anything will ever beat Harold. And Maude for me. But I did only see this one time, so I won't be able to really know I because it could. I just don't. I just don't know if it ever could, though. I think this is definitely like a Richard Linklater thing where everybody wants some is like one like, I can't say that. That's like my absolute favorite Linklater movie. When you talk about some of like, other things, but I think I end up going with it. I don't know, I'm going to say no. Harold and Maude is my favorite one right now, but this should be number two. No, that's totally fine. Yeah, I mean, when I rank his 70s, I put him in this order. So number seven would be bound for glory, which I just watched for the first time for this. And it was good. It's just it's long coming home number six, which is a movie that it's so hard to find. It has to be because of music rights, because there's wall to wall music in it. I have only seen that film once and I rented that from blockbuster. So that lets you know how long ago that was. You can't find that movie anywhere. But that might even be his most popular and acclaimed. But I don't know, 1978 I it's like deer Hunter or coming Home. I was more in the deer Hunter camp when I watched it the first time. That's where my head was. Number five, the landlord hysterical. My top four are all just classics to me. Number four, Harold and Maude, which I love. Number three being there to the last detail one. Shampoo. You bet. I love shampoo, but I love Hal Ashby. I just love all of his movies of the 70s. All right. Is this Warren Beatty's best performance? Oh, man. No, I, I wrote yes, I did, so I take it. Yeah, I love him in it because I think it is so atypical to any other thing that he did. And as someone who is so hyper aware of his real life, sex crazed persona because he was the Playboy of Hollywood, for him to be poking fun at that, which is what he's doing here, is yeah, yeah, I love that, self-effacement. I so I think it's hysterical to watch and yeah, I, I've always been a fan of Warren Beatty. Always makes for an interesting IMDb because you realize IMDb read because you realize how little he was actually in like he did not. Yeah, his body of work is very small, but what an impact. Absolutely. My favorite shot of the movie. It's the like the first one of the last one, that opening shot of him in bed. And you think we're we are in the dark. But then you just start to see the light from the doorway on the right, and then that. I don't know if it's the very last shot, but just him looking out over and you can see the damn car driving off like those are the whole thing looks remarkable. But those two shots are so evocative. I love the in that opening scene. Like when? Because the camera does move. It is one take where we're hearing all those things, but then the light goes on, but then the camera moves and we're straight on where we're seeing the light from the bathroom. Warren Beatty is getting up and everything. It's not until we cut a little bit, until we see, like some of their more close ups, but like, that camera pivot is really nice. Yeah, yeah, I would say that. Or I would say honestly, just because of the shot of with the girl's head in his crotch as he's blow drying her hair, I love that it's it's a nice looking shot to speak to exactly what the movie is. I love it, I love it. So it's such a good cut too, because you start laughing and it is right away you're like, oh my God, he's so into it too. Favorite quote? I mean, I don't know, there's let's face it, I fuck them all is just the way he says it. It's I don't know, there's so many good lines in this. Like, they're just there's so many. I had so I had some that were, like, profound and poignant. You never stop moving, but you don't go anywhere to. It made me feel like I was going to live forever. But then I don't think I laughed out louder than when he first gets to the fucking party and he sees I forget which one it is, but he looks at her hair and he goes, it looks like someone took a dump in it. Yeah, yeah. It's so good. But he's just he's able to spot out the different, the different heads that he's cut. I got heads I got a lot of heads. It's here. Got, That's a great one. That's a great one. A few more, a few others that I considered for 1975. I talked about him up front, but I mean, Dog Day, afternoon, Cuckoo's Nest, jaws, Barry Lyndon, Nashville. We could all could be great. We could have done great stuff with any of those titles to do for this episode. And then another big one from 75, you have to mention The Rocky Horror Picture Show, which is still live. Oh yeah, very well to this day. So yeah, I mean, this was a great year for movies. Oh great year. Yeah, I had the exact same list, so there's nothing even new that I can add to that. He can add something. Now to the way the hot take. The hot take Nicholas Doe still hot take here we go. So okay, so this is a maybe a premature hot take. But you can definitively answer this for me because you've seen all of the Hal Ashby 70s movies. Yeah. So my take on seeing the few that I have, because I haven't seen coming home and I haven't seen bound for Glory or The Landlord. So that does leave me out a bit. But seeing this being there, Harold and Maude, The Last detail. None of these movies feel the same to me at all, in the way that sometimes we talk about PTA right now, it's sort of like, here's a guy that every single movie feels different. There's it doesn't feel like a PTA movie, but yet there's movie magic. I think Hal Ashby is like the same way where it's every movie he makes is its own complete version of movie magic in ways where it's like, how does this work? This shouldn't work. Harold and Maude is like the best example of like, I don't know how you tonally get all that across to where people and not everyone gets Harold and Maude, but when you experience, like, what that movie's actually doing, it's like, how do you do that? How do you capture this feeling? So shampoo is the same thing. Like I said it multiple times throughout the pod, like, you can't put this movie in a box. It does it. There's too many things. Last details the same way. Like how in the hell do you get that scene to work with the three of them in a room being shrunk? Ted. Yeah, and somehow managed to get across a charm, but then also like the just like the brute nature of drunk dudes and and then yet still kind of have friendship, like, you know, like mirror that being there. Forget about it. That movie should not work at all. Yeah. You have Peter Sellers not talking like you take away the biggest assets and it's amazing. I love that movie. So. So my take is that Hal Ashby is able to in his movies, capture a certain magic that I think any other director working with the same material wouldn't be able to capture. Yeah, there was something very, very unique about the way that he told his stories. Absolutely, yes. I mean, bound for glory is very different from all of those. And the landlord is just like this WASPy comedy. So like intentionally WASPy satire, comedy thing and then coming home, you know, it was the war movie. So yeah, they're all different in ways, and I love that. I think it's a great take. It's a good one. Two good ones in a row for Oscar nominations. Supporting actor Jack warden, original screenplay and art direction. But miss Lee Grant wins great short speech I love it. That is a great, great win. Especially when you take into consideration all the bullshit she went through for over a decade before. Yeah, well earned. And then real quick, the legacy also kind of talked about it. I don't I think Tarantino, PTA, Linklater, Soderbergh, Kevin Smith, John Hughes, the Coen brothers, on and on. I think a big The Big Lebowski owes a bit of a debt to shampoo. All this stuff like I do. These are like, hang out movies for or, you know, directors who have made hang out movies where you're just there's it. Plotting is secondary. It's character and story. First. I don't think Californication, the TV show exists without this movie. Yeah, absolutely. That it has to be. And it's like it has to be. I was thinking of that the entire time. I was like, this is different situation, different setting, but this is that same. This is that that Hank Moody. Yeah. I think shampoo is like one of those movies I could put on any time. And I'm going to sit and I'm going to have a great time watching it. It's going to be a breeze. It's just fun like that. You can brush your teeth to it and brush your teeth to a cup of coffee. Joint some scotch at 8 a.m. do that. Sit down shampoo at 8 a.m., pour yourself a Jack warden special. Jesus. What are you watching? All right, give it to us. What do you got? I'm going for a movie that I know. You weren't a big fan. No, I like you. Had more. More issues with this than not, and I very much liked it. But I don't discount any of your criticisms. I'm going with weapons. Oh, okay. Oh, oh, oh. I was like, where are you? Okay. Yes, yes. So. Okay. Go for it. Give it to us. You know, mean when it comes to horror movies. But I was so scared during this movie. There were times where I was with my friend John, and I don't fucking see horror movies because the things like this, because of that, what we just fucking saw. And I'm getting all fucking ramped up and John's like, take it easy. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't, I gotta go, I gotta go, there you go. But you are, I don't even want to say what all your things were, because I don't want to give that movie away because it's still in theaters. Yeah, it would be too many spoilers. Oh, I'll touch on them. Generally, when you're done with your wreck, it's a good wreck. I did not dislike the movie. I'm glad I went to see it. And for a 2025 horror movie, I had fun when I was watching it. But when it was done, I had, you know, a ton of questions and other stuff. I'll touch on it in a little bit. And they all track. They all track. Yeah. I can't, I can't look at any of those questions that you posed and then try to rebuttal in any way that will give you what you need. I don't know if it was a matter of me just not even thinking about them. I think that's probably what it was, or it's a good thing. Yeah, or just sort of forgiving it, but I can't deny him either. So I wonder, knowing now because like, I do have those questions now too. If I was to rewatch it, if now I'd be bothered. Maybe it was like a first time watch where I just got taken by the whole thing in the best way possible, like as any fun movie should do there, if I rewatch it and be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I see all this and now I don't know how I feel. Well, yeah, I mean, the thing is, like you, you texted back the best response ever because I wasn't I wasn't trying to be like a jerk when I was asking you the questions, but you said how much you liked it. And I was like, here's a few things that I noticed. And your response back was, those are all valid points. I didn't know notice any of that because I was along on the ride. And yeah, that's like I was for the ride too. I wanted to know how it would end. One of my main problems was that I completely and utterly called out the ending. About 10 or 15 minutes in. It was just everything was so obvious to me. And we've talked about this when they keep this thing like as a reveal and I'm like, oh, okay, no one else got that. But I'm, I'm seeing online that a lot of other people got stuff. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to get I'm going to keep it general too. But you know, the, the idea of the movie is that like 17 kids go missing from a town and they were never seen again, and they all left their homes the exact same time in the middle of the night. The thing is, because I didn't see the trailer, the thing that you learn is that all these kids were in the same class. They were all in the same classroom, and there's one kid that is still in the class that was not affected by this. It's very dangerous to apply logic to a film, because there's a lot of stuff in that movie that can't happen in real life that, you know, movie logic is not real life logic. I mean, they're breathing oxygen, so that's logical. But there are just things I'm like, all right, what world is this living in? Where if 17 kids, fourth graders go missing from the same class, every single police officer within a 20 mile radius, or at least a great number of them are sitting on that house in shifts. They are never not sitting on it. They are having someone go there every single day to talk with whomever is living there. And that was just like poop. Like squirt it over. It was just, we tried once, no big deal. And I went, what the fuck? Like what? So what logic are we living in here? Especially when one of the main characters is a cop? And I loved Alden Aaron Wright. Goodness, I thought he was serious. Like Julia Garner was a drunk. I didn't expect that. I was like, oh, Josh Brolin was fucking hilarious. I mean, he woke up all the acting was great. Yeah, yeah, I loved all the actors a lot. Amy Madigan is great. I just I was like, oh, there was nothing. I didn't really think that was original. I didn't think it was that. But and I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as barbarian. But I agree, while I was sitting there watching it, I enjoyed it and I was like, okay, this, you know, this is this is fine. This is what we're getting. This is what we're getting. You know, it made. It did well at the box office. It made money. So I think it would be really interesting to know how many people are going back to it, though, because I think a lot of people, myself included, went back to barbarian. But I think if you go back to weapons, a lot of it's not really going to hold up and you're going to when you're not on that ride anymore and you're looking back like, What? Oh, well, that's that's kind of silly. It just seemed to do a lot of sort of silly stuff. Well, let me be clear. Having some fucking gnarly kills like that one at the gas station. Wow. Oh, it did, one. And then there's a few toward the end. I mean, it was cool. There's some effective stuff. I didn't even give it a bad grade on Letterboxd. I was just a little bit generic for me, but hey, all good I like. I was really bummed to learn that his next movie is a Resident Evil movie. I wished he would say doing original stuff, but that's just oh well, my, what you watching is it's a what are you watching favorite. We're playing the hits again. You know why? For a lot of reasons. Because you know double downs all the time. Every single fucking time. You're like no double downs. No double downs. A double down means you can't say the same movie. You can't be like, yeah, shampoo. I am doing a hangout movie that never got the respect it deserved. And that is a movie by a director. We've talked about Paul Thomas Anderson and it's called Licorice Pizza, and I'm mentioning Licorice Pizza again. Thank you, thank you. Because who does it star folks. Who is it, sir? What's her name? Alana. Haim. You're goddamn right it's a lot. Anaheim. Two days away from seeing her. Madison Square Garden, her and her sisters. You know, there was a few a few years ago. No. What am I saying? Like, a few episodes ago, this came up and I was like, you know what? I'm going to give that another spin. It's been a while, and I did, and it's I love it. I love this movie. People were just fucking on one when it came out. I don't know what it would have been. I just, I really wish you would have one original screenplay for it. Kenneth Branagh did for Belfast. Like, yeah. How many Belfast. Great movie. Watch that one last night. Twice. I'm just saying. Like it just would have been nice to give him something. I don't. Hey, maybe this next one he'll win or get nominated for Oscars. I don't know, I like Licorice Pizza. I think it is an absolute shaggy dog vibes hang out movie that you just sit and put on. And it's not a it's fun to kind of just leave on because you come, you know. Okay, here's the water bed segment. All right. Here's this segment I don't know, I like the movie a lot. And yeah, there's a lot of running. You know why. You know why. Because running is liberating. And my girls, the Haim sisters, like to walk and they like to run. And I don't want to hear the running besmirched anymore. That's all I got to say. Especially when the running looks as good as it looks. Thank you. Yes, the running is not a bad thing. It's a lot of drive in and shampoo. Why they drive in so much in shampoo? Because that's what you have to fuck. Yeah, yeah, like you got to drive, run. That's right. Drive. Run. By the way, do you, do you have a goat run in any movie? Oh, you know this. What is it, Brendan Sullivan? Michael Fassbender in Shame, which I just rewatched two days ago. Oh, yeah. That's right. Oh, that's so fucking great. Yeah. That's really. Yeah. Why did I rewatch it two days ago? Because I wanted to. Because it's amazing. I hadn't seen it in a while. Know that there's nothing that comes like close to that. His stride is absolutely perfect, especially when you consider that he is running, like, right in the heart of Manhattan, heading toward Madison Square Garden. That's where that's where he ends. That's where the run ends. Yeah. It's brilliant. Well, I think you're right. You're you're shame one got me. But, I mean, there's Tom cruise, of course, who gets the credit he deserves, but it's not. That's always very, like, frantic. Like there's running, there's jogging, and there's. I mean, just that run and jog did. He doesn't shamed him. All right. Yeah. One more since we're still a little short. A little short on him one time. I mean, we're, you know, we're like an hour 35 anyway. Edington, I just want to talk about Eddington. Let me talk about Eddington, because I saw it the first time and didn't not like it at all. I didn't think anything remotely interesting happened until the 80 minute mark, when it then turned itself into a mishmash of Coen brothers movies at the behest of Igor, who did, another commentary with me. He's like, go just give it a rewatch. And I liked it so much more. And that has happened with every single artist or movie I've seen, except I actually. I was like, all right, that movie I get what it is, and I like it at the exact same now as I did when I first saw it, but mid-summer. But I was afraid I was not on board with Eddington. I was not on board with. And now I like them all. So I definitely gave Eddington another shot and it helped and I appreciate it for what it is now, not what I thought it was going to be. That's all fair. I actually, I that's the one I want to see because of that. Yeah. I mean it should be out soon I would assume. I don't know we'll see. It has to be. Yeah. Like on the, on the services. I think you can pay money for it right now. But anyway. All right. On the services. Shampoo. Licorice pizza. Good stuff. Let me know what was your. What are you watching? Weapons. Weapons? Yeah. Go see that. I guess. I mean, what else is in theater? I don't know, fantastic. For all that. Oh, God. Let us know what you're thinking. I saw that in the biggest movie theater in London, BFI, Imax. It was fucking awesome. Let me tell you. We were not in a sober state of mind and we had a great time. Let us know what you're thinking on socials at WW underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Wouldn't it be nice if we were all there and we wouldn't have to wait so long? And wouldn't it be nice to live together in the kind of world where. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. Send us mailbag questions at what are you watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at Wide Underscore Podcast. Next time it's one battle after another. I promise we have something really fun planned for it. We have both seen the film oh my God, one battle after another. Let's go. Stay tuned. Happy times together with you spending. I wish that every kiss was never ending. But wouldn't it be nice? And the winner is Lee Grant in shampoo. Thank you. I really must have wanted. Otherwise, why would I wear an old wedding dress? I think we had a fight 20 years ago, but he's changed. I know I haven't, but I would like to thank the artistic community for sustaining me in my wins and losses and and sitting on the curb, whatever it was. I don't think there's an award for what Warren Beatty had to do to get shampoo on, but I respect him and love him and Robert Towne and, my director, Hal Ashby, who encourages, an actor to fly without a net because, you know, that he's there to catch you. Thank you.