165: Deliverance (1972)

This is the weekend they didn’t play golf. Alex and Nick break down John Boorman’s masterpiece, “Deliverance.” The guys have an extended discussion on the horrifying attack sequence in the film, and the resulting impact it had on cinema and the culture. They also discuss Burt Reynolds’ breakout role, the film’s expert use of staging, how well Jon Voight plays drunk, Ned Beatty’s career, one of the most iconic music themes in movie history, and so much more.

Part 5 of the WAYW New Hollywood Film Project.

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Transcript

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Number. You. What do you want? You want to talk about the finishing? Will the noise? Listen. What? Are you so anxious about this? Damn it! To drown in a river just about the last wild, untamed, unpolluted and fucked up river in the south. What the hell? You want to go fuck around that river more? Come on. And we. Because it's there, right along the line. But what the. I where the road you. I. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex swift. Throw it up. Joined by my best man, Nick. So how are you doing there, mountain man? So you do the right thing and call me Lewis. Call me Lewis. You see yourself as a Lewis. If you're out on this journey, you see yourself as a Lewis. Really? Tell me. No, I wish I were. You were not fucking crazy enough to do that. You're not crazy enough to even be like, yeah, this is my idea. Let's go do it. You know, maybe be able to be talked into it. Maybe. But you're not crazy enough to like, I wouldn't I wouldn't even fucking do this. The woods, you know, you're kidding. You know? You know who I absolutely. I mean, I don't even mean this. I'm I'm. I'm ed here. Bobby. Oh, yeah. I'm. Yeah. You see you as a good ed. Yeah. Because. Because all of a sudden this shit is goes this way. And I got to fucking take it. And I, it's up to me to do this. I'll fucking do it. I'll fucking do it. But that way. Yeah. When matters. Yeah. Helpless friend is getting sodomized. You do nothing. Well, he's tied to a fucking thing. He tries to get out. It's one of those he goes for that. It's one of my favorite. What if. Just what if Bobby and Lewis still traveled together that day? Because they do the first day. So what if, you know, it's Burt rolling up there and not Jon Voight? Well, I mean, we'll never know. But that's that's the crux of it. That's the crux of it. The crux. I guarantee you, Lewis would have died. He would have. He wouldn't have allowed any of it to happen. He would have. He would have fought it. Jesus. This is it's a prompt I had way later. And that is my exact response as well. He would have you would have had to kill him and you would have said that to him. Boys, the where this is heading, I will never allow myself. This will never happen to me nor my friend while I'm living. So take that shotgun and shoot me in the chest or in the head, because that's how we're doing this. Yeah, or we can put the weapons out and just have a talk. I don't know if, today, who of all the movies we are doing as part of the New Hollywood Film Project, this is my favorite of the ones we've done so far, and the ones we will do, because the John Boorman's Deliverance is one of my top ten favorite films of all time. It has been that way since I was first ask to make a top ten of all time. It's always been in the back, five in the back half, my top ten somewhere. Right now it's right around 7 or 8. It's always been that way. I love this movie. We're going to get into a lot of it, but I don't know if we've ever sat down and had a proper conversation about this other than it's one of my favorite movies ever. But how do you feel to be here? How are you feeling today? Oh, I man, I mean, it's so my own I feel great, I feel excited, I feel great, I feel charged. Yeah, I'm ready to go. I'm adding through this. No, I, I my relationship with this movie was for my whole entire life, my uncle always saying. And in random conversations. I wanna hear you squeal, boy squeal. And then he would all. And I'd be like, what are you talking about? And he goes, us deliverance. And I and my uncle would always make these reference to this movie in this way. And then finally one day I was probably 12, maybe 13, maybe 14, and we watched it and I don't I remember just being very uncomfortable in the room because I think my grandmother was there too. Sure. Naturally. And, you know, and, you know, naturally, you know, you watch that, you watch that movie with your grandma. And I remember, like, understanding it. And I remember I remember just being like, okay, this this is this is a whole thing. I just remember having the awkward experience with my family. So really rewatching this was sort of watching it for the first time in some ways. Oh, wow. Okay, great. Felt, even though I remembered it though, because I remember it, I was like, oh yeah. And then like, this is what's going to continue to happen. But I am not paying attention to like, what in the thing that I want to say about this movie is to me, I think this is an unbelievably poetic movie or, oh, absolutely absolute. Wait till we get to who wrote it. This is a very poetic movie. Yeah. Really poetic. And and there and everything that you need to understand and feel about the movie is in none of its imagery. Maybe. I mean, obviously there is some, but it's really all in just being present to what the movie is giving you, and then you get to take all of that for yourself and decide how much you want to analyze it, how deep you want to go into psychology, into the human condition until to the conversation of men, the roles that we play in our dynamics with each other, that's all on the table. It's all there. It's just all depends on you. How far do you want to meet the movie on on its terms. So that is something I did not take with me when I was younger, that I had this time, that I am like a like a pig and shit about pig. Pig. There it is. Good one. There it is. Squealed your way right into that. I the I have a note like it's way down, but I'll talk. The first scene I saw from this movie that yeah, let them all talk was, you know, I mean, a lot of movies that I saw for the first time, they actually used to play movies on TV, like really good movies on normal channels. Like, not that you didn't have to have HBO. I didn't have any that I didn't have a lot of TV channels. And I remember seeing watching very clearly with my mom. I remember it like it was yesterday. I'm ten and we're watching the arrow stand off on the cliff, and we had like we had just clicked on the channel and it was a little before that and my mom was like, oh my God, you have to watch this scene. And it I got the full context of it, like voice going it, going back, shaking the thing in the back. And then I went, I have to watch this. And I remember her being like, I don't know about this one like yet. So we probably waited a year or so, but once I saw Pulp Fiction, you know, it's once the gloves are off with my film watching, I watch this. And there was a I loved it right away. But we were a camping family. It was it's it's a, it's a it was an easy thing to do. Like my parents would take us camping a lot really with other friends and families. Yeah. It in the hills of West Virginia, the hills and mountains of West Virginia. And it was just something, you know, we had tents and stuff. It wasn't as rugged as this and shit. But yeah, we were. We went camping. I remember that often. And I remember enjoying it until I watched deliverance. And then I never for the rest of my life gotten any enjoyment out of camping at all. At all I been a few times. I don't get an enjoyment from it. It's the only thing I can equate it to is some people watched jaws once and never got back in the water. Or they did and they just didn't enjoy it that much again and took all the innocence of I thought the woods used to be like, oh, you could hear all these sounds and it's like beautiful in nature. And then this movie made me realize anyone can be in there. Any fucking person can be in there. Like, you know, this is the most radical example of it. But that's kind of what I like to say, that deliverance ruined camping for me. But taught me a whole lot about the human experience that you're talking about, about how we face certain challenges that we are presented with. I've long since said it's the scariest movie I've ever seen that you know isn't related to horror. And people hear that and they hear guys saying that and they think that it's I think it's scary because of one scene, that scene contributes to it, too. But it's the complete loss of innocence. And you didn't do anything wrong. You're going out for a fun weekend with your buddies, and you will never be the same again. One of you is going to die. You're never going to be the same again. No one involved is ever going to be the same. And it's that complete loss of innocence when you weren't doing anything wrong, and that the movie has stayed with me for my entire life. I watch it, I don't know about once a year, definitely once every other year. I mean, I love it, I love this movie. John Boorman, the director, does such a good commentary for it, so I am excited to talk about it. Really open all of it up today because this is this is a movie known talked about slut, New Hollywood Film Project. It's a movie known for one two really famous scenes, but there's so much more to it. Believe me, there's so much more I have to say to that. Yes. I mean, and this is where sometimes I don't like, like the pop culture of things because. Yes, like if like, you know, we were talking about like five Easy Pieces. Everyone remembers the, the diner scene, but like, that's not at all representative of that movie. This is a little different because without this scene, there's so much about the movie that that doesn't happen. Yeah, but at the same time, in the action, I feel like the only real reason people might talk about this scene in the way that they do, maybe it means that we can have a free flowing conversation about this is just because of the time period. Yeah, like, yeah, when you talk about Pulp Fiction, people can bring up that scene, but that's not what. And we're talking about the six people. We're talking about the rape scene. And the rape scene is one of the most infamous scenes in the history of cinema. I have a perfect addendum to your point that you're making when you talk about Pulp Fiction. You're talking about so many other scenes, and then someone will bring up the Gimp and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, that whole thing. But, you know, I feel like when you look at this movie, it is doing a giant disservice to look at deliverance and just have the blanket opinion of, oh, that's the movie with that. Yeah. And, and because. I just wish on like, even more so than five Easy Pieces that this movie could be talked about in a different way. Then, then then there's that scene. But I feel like that's what it's that's what the scene is. That's what it's done. Yeah. So it all has to do with the time period, because there was this huge article written in the New York Times or New Yorker in the early 90s about, rape and the culture, rape in cinema, things like that. And Ned Beatty is interviewed and he was ridiculed, made fun of just in the street, the squeal like a pig. Everywhere, everywhere he went. He was made fun of and yelled this by people walking by him. He said that not to be, insensitive, that he felt like a rape victim because that's how everyone was treating him and they were doing it all as a joke. Now you jump ahead 24 years. The scene in Pulp Fiction is heavily based on the scene in deliverance, hence why they are hillbillies. Hence why all this stuff? Tarantino's admitted this no one was passing by Ving Rhames in the street and yelling anything disparaging in him. Yeah, Edward Norton wasn't getting any of that either. Four years later, after American History X, he's not being made fun of. You know, Zeds Dead is the big quote from that. Yes. And that's it's not like, well, you know, eeny meeny miney moe. I just I rewatched pulp last night, actually, 4K looks great. It sure does. You know, squeal like a pig is the thing that is said. Not like. Yeah, let's bury him. I don't want any of this getting around. You know, it's the thing that defiles Ned Beatty's character that he was ridiculed for. And yeah, that's a part of the time I also, I mean, I'm not like, we we did that in middle school. We said that to each other in middle school to be like, funny because we were just immature idiots. Your uncle would say it to you. It's something like we would be idiot jerks. When I was the only one who had really, like, seen it. And I told my friends that context and yeah, they just think it's funny and everything. This shit isn't so. Yes, it got turned into that quickly as this thing, like a punchline that has been made fun of ridiculed. But yeah, it doesn't when you go actually watch the movie, I've showed Ali this movie and she had heard of that scene. I mean, this movie, this shit, this shit is not funny. That is a terrifying, terrifying sequence that makes my heart pound every time I watch because I think they could talk you like, oh, it's right there. You can talk your way out of it. Oh, no, you said that wrong thing. And the way the mountain man just, like, leans against straight. No, you so you said you look for still like there's still like he's trying to be more human. Oh, my God, it's fucking terrifying. And it is not funny. Do you think, man, this is this is a whole different type of conversation. But yeah, I knew we were going to go here, though. I mean, yeah, I didn't expect it to be all to right off the bat, but I guess it's good I didn't. You kind of got to talk about this, but do you think maybe it's because, I mean, and this is a good thing is that in our culture today in America, we I think there's just we've just been exposed to sexual violence for. Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately for so long that there isn't there isn't humor for it anymore. And in the best possible way, like there is like we the funny, it's not funny. And I think maybe that. Do you think maybe we were sort of even in our youth when like, you know, the verbiage that our generation used to, mask I think certain looking at it now, I think it's because we just weren't comfortable about dealing with certain realities. So instead of actually acknowledging and dealing with it, we, we, we made fun of it because it was easier to make fun of that. Literally. Not not make it to make fun of it. Then deal with the actual gravity of what those things are. And I can only imagine because you and I were not alive in the 70s, but I can now. When you were saying that people were making fun of Ned Beatty on the street. Oh, yeah. If no one would make fun of an actor today for that. That was two point. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that was my point. And it's because no one wants to deal with the fact that in the way that the movie posits, it is a very, very real not funny whatsoever. This is an incident that happened in the movie. This can and has happened in real life. Yeah. And and so people, instead of wanting to deal with it, will mask it by making fun of it and not treating it. And then and then back in those days, you were you were ridiculing people about it in the same way that our generation ridiculed gay people by the words that we used and the types of verbiage that, like our generation did. And now, like, unfortunately, like that stuff is not appropriate and that stuff is not looked at in that way either. So it's really just timing, I really is. That's crazy. Yeah. Culture changes. It shifts, things become more apparent. We mature different things take root and culture falls down and it just goes in this damn cycle of, I mean, this was this movie was a big deal. It was a really, really big deal for this scene. They all knew what they were getting themselves into. It was a big deal. But yeah, I think it changed a lot. And at least I mean, if someone had to started it was this. And then I think it just I think it made a lot of people uncomfortable. And that's where the rejection, the humor, making fun of it came from. And I think a lot of those people, you know, didn't see the movie maybe necessarily like the people that were making fun of it when I was a kid. But again, when you watch the movie in the context of it, it's an extremely random thing that happens. That's part of the point. It happens out of nowhere, but it takes the act so seriously, the fallout of it so seriously. This is not a punch line like an Academy Award winning movie that came out last year, was that that's the reason. One of the many reasons why I hated that movie so much. But no one was making fun of Adrien Brody on the street. I guarantee you, no one's yelling at him in the street over what his character endured in that film. So yeah, we've in the grown up in some ways, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Well, that's just goes to show you how like, bad that scene was in general. Fucking God, I hated that. Oh my God, it was just, everything that I love about deliverance for its commitment. It's like all the reasons why I hated that film. Anyway. Yeah, we're going to we're going to talk about some sensitive stuff today. And that's even in film. I love watching old movies. I love all sorts of movies. Once the 70s became a thing, the sexual politics of movies got, you know, if there's, there's a lot of scenes that you start with, like, there's even five easy pieces. Five easy pieces when it's kind of rough with her. And then, you know, they do end up having sex, but, I mean, Straw Dogs was in 71 like that. We're getting very, very they're starting to just lean more into this. I mean, you have Wes Craven's first film, last House on the left, Jesus Christ, that grudge. And then we start to graduate to, you know, I spit on your grave and start really taking it way too far. And honestly, those are all the things that made the 80s come about when there was a way more of a conservative kind of resistance to this type of stuff. They got it all out in the 70s. Deathwish, you know, I mean, but knowing all this, these scenes were never easy to watch. But in a movie that takes itself seriously, like it shouldn't, it's not supposed to be fun to watch, but it's supposed to be like, this is exactly why I have so such an appreciation for irreversible. If we're doing this, if we're fucking doing this, then show it how it is. Show it. You know, no, no one's forcing you to sit here and watch the movie, and deliverance is there. There ain't a lot of cutting in this scene. The manipulation scene when they get there is like almost six minutes of. It's like one shot. It's a long shot. Then they go up into the woods. It's long like, show it like, so that we can. It's not that we have to sit and have it long debate or a podcast after we watch deliverance, but we get to see them or debate. That's what. That's what it is. That's where the poetic system is coming about. What law? What law? Like, you know, here we are. Yeah, I mean, it it also reminds me of, the Virgin Spring. Absolutely. And it's in a lot of ways, because it's also like what you're saying is it's it's it's also the aftermath. And it's also like, what, what what do people do now as a result of this? And and even in Virgin Spring, it's very similar. Like they just he's points that puts that camera up and just lets it happen. Yep. And and that was a huge deal at the time. Bergman's The Virgin Spring that the rape scene in that which and that's not the you know exactly. You they would have never been able to do that 1960 in America ever. But you had movies like that and he had to write. The censors didn't want to release that movie in the theater. You had to write an extremely like three sentence note. That's extremely articulate. Oh my God, he's such a good writer. Yeah, that all that stuff is helping inform. I mean, Boorman is British. He's not American. So that also is part of it's part of it. I don't know if an American director would have gone here like this. Not 1972. I don't know, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I do I know 72 as early as we're talking because the. Yeah, I mean, you just it is it was as big of a deal as you may have thought it was in 1972, and it still remains a big deal. And it's still a scene that is treated with a great amount of care. And the way that they shot it is there's this all these backstories to it, and it's really interesting. And I'm excited to kind of, you know, open it up and talk about that. But there's also a lot of other good stuff about the movie, a lot of good sequences, lines of dialog that I that's what I mean. Yeah. Like it's it's just kind of wrap this up like as you move on, like one of the things that always bothered me, like embarrassed me more, I thought about this was that you remember those shows back in like it back in our day where, they were those decade shows like the best of the 2000. The best. Oh, yeah. 90s. And they would. Yeah. And they would bring up, like, all the big pop culture ones. And I remember there was some show I was watching. I really was like that, but it was very similar to it where they brought deliverance and all these like actors chime in. And that's the only point of the conversation. It's the only thing that they're all talking about is like, you want to see a scary movie. To your point, that's going to be like you make you not want to go camping anymore. But that's not like jaws. It's playing on that fear jaws. The whole entire thing is. Are you afraid of sharks? Well, get ready for the ride of this summer. You're not saying that about deliverance. You like canoeing? Hold on, hold on, folks, this movie does have one of the poster of this movie has one of the best taglines of all time. This is the weekend. They didn't play golf. That is like one of the best taglines is this is the weekend they didn't play golf. Oh my God, just the dread in that statement. It's like, here we go. Yeah, yeah, the really quick I don't know if I'll bring this up again. But you, you there's a line in here because this is little bits. Alex, gave me some, some notes on my script, and one of them was referencing a, part of how my characters know each other in their friendship, and, And you made me, it made sense when you were telling me, but it clicked even more for me in a way that that can actually be really meaningful because of deliverance, because it's I'm jumping ahead, but really quick as I might forget about this, it's when they are saying goodbye to, drew. Drew. Yeah. And, and you can very much tell because you don't really know the history of these, of these friendships very well. It's not until Ned Beatty says I never really knew him. Yeah. So you get this idea that it's sort of like, okay, well, clearly Jon Voight and Drew had a deeper friendship and that maybe this was, hey, I got a buddy, drew. I want to bring on one of our trips next time we don't do this. And so Ned Beatty is like, yeah, sure. You know, and then like, so to your point, I just want to say like, that's a very, very important thing in the writing, just to give an idea of how well characters may or may not, in this case, know each other, because hearing Ned Beatty say that puts paints a whole entire different picture in my head of this weekend and to the tagline, it's like this weekend. Like, oh, I got a buddy to bring on a canoe trip. Oh yeah, bring him there. I love that scene so much. I've ever seen this movie, but I love Beatty's delivery of that when he's like, we should, you know, they're like, we should say something. He goes, I didn't really know him. And then Voight kind of being like, here, like kind of struggling to think of this eulogy and then ending with, he was the best of us. And he was, you know, I mean, we see that in the debate of, you know, you believe in democracy, don't you, drew? Yes, I do, and yeah, it's a really, really telling line. And I like that. It's one of my favorite things about the movie is how do they all know each other? How long have they been friends? Yeah. Have they ever gone on any trip together? I love all that stuff. I mean, the beginning, yes, I will, I don't even know. God, I got to start right away. That fucking voice narration. Like during the credits. And we're getting so much info. Yeah, yeah, it's you're getting so much info right away. Oh my god. And not only are you getting info though, but you you you you immediately understand like the dynamic. Like because you're hearing them all. Just you don't know who's talking because they're kind of like some people are coming. They're talking over each other. Clearly. You kind of learn that's bird, that's kind of leading it. But like what you're hearing is friends. Yeah, you're hearing friends cutting up and having a good time. And that's what you need to know right here. That's it. It's it I love it. Yeah. They're like laughing busting balls. And you, you can you. We learn so much without ever actually seeing them. Like, you can tell Voight is a little drunk. He plays drunk so well, but you can. He does his voice, and I love her. Just. This is just about the last wild, untamed, unpolluted un fucked up river in the South. Like that. And just, you know, I've got to have you ride back in time. Leave on Friday. Back in their little suburban house is just in time for the football game on Sunday afternoon. Everything's fine. What's the big deal? They're going to drown this river out. So we got to go out and get the last vestige of nature's, you know, glory in this river because they're going to build this dam and drown everything out. Yep. But before we get into the movie proper, let me just set up Boorman really quickly. John Boorman, born in England in the 30s, his first film is called Catch Us If You Can. It's about the Dave Clark Five. Sounds like it's not on like A Hard Day's Night or Bob Rafelson head about the monkeys. Boorman wants to break into Hollywood. He gets interested in the script for this movie. Point blank. Lee Marvin completely takes Boorman under his wing. That movie is awesome, I love it, it's crazy. After the success of Point Blank born, Boorman Steamrolls and make some New Hollywood or New Hollywood adjacent films, Point Blank, hell in the Pacific, Leo, The Last Deliverance in 72, Zardoz in 1974, which I watched for the first time for this episode. Wow. The Exorcist whole thing? Yeah. The Exorcist two and 1977. Truly terrible film. And Excalibur, his big King Arthur movie in 1981. He did a lot. We'll talk about more as we go along. As he's gearing up for deliverance. The studio keeps cutting his budget, ultimately providing no stuntman. They did all their own stunts themselves. There's one stunt person, when Voight went down that huge, you know, rapid like riverbed it toward the end. Burt did that himself. But Voight had a stunt person. That'd be they. Voight's what? Said that his career was kind of in a low post. Midnight cowboy. So he said John Boorman saved his life, like, saved his career by giving him this part. And he. Voight thought a lot about it. Like, do I do this? I don't know if I want to. It's this is risky material. So Boorman saved my career by offering me this part, but then he nearly killed me because, I mean, he did all that rock climbing stuff, so it's like Jesus has crazy. I love it. Have you seen a Boorman movie? I don't know if you. You know, I don't. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, I saw Zada. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I was under the influence of something during that one. Sure kind of have to be, I think. Yeah, it sounds like. Honestly. Yeah. For those who don't know if anyone if anyone has seen pictures of Sean Connery in a red Speedo, that is the movie we're talking about. I'm right. They touch on that a little more. We go, James Dickey, let me talk about this fellow. You see this here? See this? You know, this is the book he's put in the book. Is it deliverance? Is it written by audio James Dickey? I know it is, but you can hear it here. It's looks really old too. I've had that book forever. I reread it for this. What a guy. Listen to this. James Dickey, born in Atlanta, drops out of college to be a pilot in two. I don't know why I said it that way. Drops out of college to be a pilot in World War two. Gets five bronze stars. Wow. He graduates magna cum laude from Vanderbilt, then serves in the Air Force during the Korean War. He comes home, teaches at colleges. He's appointed as the 18th U.S Poet laureate. He wins the national Book Award for poetry. He earns a Guggenheim Fellowship. He's a poetry consultant for the Library of Congress. He writes the novel deliverance in 1970, writes the script for the movie this was a man's man. He was a worker, a poet, a drinker, a bullshitter, and a good old fashioned, genuine All-American man. And I love him. He sounds like he was quite a character on set for the movie. They had him there in the beginning rehearsals and they kicked his ass out. You're like, you're too much, dude. You got to leave. I, I, I started watching some of the special features on the Blu ray. Yeah. And, there's a really funny story of Burt Reynolds where, I guess you only called the actors by their character names. Lewis, get over here. Yeah, and, you know, actors are weird about this type of thing. Like, some actors are cool with it. And then some actors were like, If I'm on set, you can call me that. If it's been. Burt was like, that's 6 a.m. tomorrow. Right now I am Burt. You refer to me as Burt and the enemy of Burt Reynolds just being like, you know, this whole thing. And then because Lewis was there. Get out of my face. Yeah, now get out of my face. And then James Dickey was like, that's exactly what Lewis would have said. Yeah, yeah. I love what he's like. It's been made clear to me that my abs, it would be more expeditious in my absence, gentlemen, that he leaves the room and Burt looks at board and he's like, does that mean he's staying or leaving? It kicked him out. Yeah, I think he was just being too hard on him. For those interested to know, the book is in first person based on one of the characters. It's from the first person of Ed, which is kind of cool. So it's from Voight's. Make sense? I was a little nervous to read it for the first time. I read it in college because, you know, poet something, and it's going to be kind of dense. It is beautiful. It is not dense at all. It's not the thing where he's using, like, these huge Ivy League words or anything like that. It's very direct. It reads very smoothly. Five chapters. The chapters are I love this before chapter two is September 14th. Chapter three, September 15th. Chapter four, September 16th, and the last chapter is after so before the three days after. Boom! That's it. It's about page 50. Before they get to to the guy's house. You know what? You drive the cars here and the the banjos start. Oh, so there's a lot of backstory and set up just of them, like how Lewis talked him into it. A lot of backstory on Lewis. So it's really cool. Lewis. Yeah, I love the book. The book is if you like the movie, you'll love the book. So this, this this is just a selfish curiosity. But because of all of that, Baxter that's written in the actual book, we don't really get any of that in the in the actual screenplay, except for, like, those moments where it's like, I barely knew him. Or like, how many of these why do you always go on these trips with me? And like, there's this idea. So what is your take as a writer from how he dispersed that information from novel to script? Beautiful, because he wrote his own script and it's a beautiful adaptation because all the little seeds that they plant in the movie, like even saying, you know, oh, he sells insurance, I don't I don't have insurance. So, and, you know, you get like little sprinklings of what maybe Ed does for a living what they do for a living. Some guy maybe is in advertising. So you hear that stuff in the movie that's just expanded upon a little bit? I don't if it says how like he definitely describes how they all kind of know each other, like that first scene, they're in a bar. So we only hear the voiceover in the movie, but they're in a bar is talk him into it. So I like it because it just peppers everything a little better, just colors it in. But it is not a full on back story. Like, no, it's not like that. No. I mean, even in the book, it's not like you don't. There are things with it. One of my favorite passages that you wouldn't be able to include in the movie, you know, Lewis is like, really serious about these woods, and they're driving up to it, and they're just things in this opening section of the book that conversations that are in the movie just, you know, down the line and how you can't take this like, these are good people who live in the woods are simple people, but you can't cross them like you can't do that stuff. And he Lewis has been that Lewis has been there once before with an other buddy. They had to split up at some point and then the buddy never came back. Oh, Lewis is like, what the fuck? So he comes across like a guy finds him. Sounds like not unlike this mountain man guy, and takes him up to, you know, his little place and he's got his son there. And it Lewis just describes like I had a man with me and I lost him and it was over that way. And I don't, you know, I don't know what happened. And the old man looks at his son and he says, go find that man. And the son takes off with a shotgun and a flashlight and the dead flashlight and the dead of night, and comes back a few hours later with the friend. And Lewis is like, I have no idea how he found him. I've no like, nothing. But. So he gives this story of like, I have encountered a mountain man before, but it was a good, you know, like he helped. It was it was good. So that's a really cool back story. But other the other than that not back story is a cool little anecdote. You don't really get too much like it. It plays out, you know, you hear about their their jobs and stuff like that. Yeah, a little more of their home life, but it doesn't. It leaves out enough to where I was. I was glad like it still has some ambiguity in there. So and just a very readable book. I think it's like 220 pages. Not not terribly long. Oh, it's great man. I'm glad you got to watch some of the special features too. I love those, just all the stories. It's a great it's a great DVD of special features. Yeah it is. Boorman's commentary is fantastic too. Oh, I couldn't get to the commentary, but I did watch the special features. But yeah, let's talk about our guys before we get into the movie. We got Jon Voight as Ed. I mean, they struggled to find the right people to cast here. The people that were cast first were Bobby and Drew. Oh, wow. Ned Beatty and Ronny Cox had never been in movies before. They never been in movies. That's this is their first movie for both of them. That's crazy. Unbelievable. Yeah. And then Jon Voight is the biggest star. Mostly from Midnight Cowboy. He had an Oscar name. He was in catch 22. Again. He was hesitant to take the role. Burt Reynolds, listen to this shit. I'm about to say some movie titles to you. Okay. Armored command, angel baby, operation CIA, Navajo. Joe. Shark. Sam. Whiskey in pass, 100 rifles. Skullduggery. Fuzz. Those are the names of movies that Burt Reynolds was in before deliverance. I've never even heard or seen any of those. He was more known as a TV actor, but really, he was a popular A-list Hollywood figure. He was known more so. It's that than a great actor. This changes everything. He enthusiastically took this role and said he knew how to play it. Like, I have a note here. Essentially, in 1972, before deliverance, Burt Reynolds is Rick Dalton. That's kind of the career he has had so far. And it's deliverance that, like boom, catapults him and he becomes Burt Reynolds off of deliverance. But yeah, Ned Beatty never been in a movie before it. Done some Broadway stuff, talked about a squeal like a big stigma that followed him around for a long time. And then, yeah, Ronnie Cox's true first movie, and he went on to have, you know, if you've seen taps, Beverly Hills Cop, Vision Quest, RoboCop, Total Recall Ronnie Cox had a great career. Ned Beatty, I mean, come on, White Lightning, Nashville, All the President's Men Network, Rudy, this is the greatest thing these eyes have ever seen, said Superman Mike. Ian. Nikki. Hello. That's right, that's right. I can love Mikey. Thank you for that. He's so good in it. Yeah. God is. I mean, he's hilarious. The fumbling man who. Yeah. So they got lucky with all this casting because they. These four guys really, really work well together. I also love that tidbit that the only one who really ever been canoeing for, like, genuinely, was Ned Beatty, and his character's supposed to be the only one who doesn't really know how to canoe when you watch like toward the his last canoeing thing, he's when he like, you know, kind of collapses on the boat when they make it. You can tell he's put in work. They all did all their own canoeing. John Boorman did it first to be like, I can do it. Watch. If I can do it, you guys can. So they all did it don't sound like it was very cheap. No, I mean, those are real rapids and those are. Yeah. You can tell like that's not, there's no, there's not a set. No. Not at all. Not at all. Just go it. Boom boom. Hitting I love the noises and it all tracks to like. Oh yeah. Like like there's, it's not like one of those, like when you're talking about like action sequences where you're just getting these cuts like you can see that the obstacle that they have coming up to then like the flow of the rapid, the dips, and then they just do it all and then you're like, yeah, now there's there's another one coming. Because I remember they showed it to us. So here comes that one. And it's just it's all right there. You talk about that with action a lot to taking care of like knowing the geography of stuff. And yeah we always we it's we're seeing these rapids for the first time. But we always know like what the mission is that they have to we can gauge the level of like difficulty based on their fears. Yes. Yeah. How, frazzled Louis is, how much he's yelling, like how hard it is. Yeah. I love all that. The scene, those all the canoeing scenes are great, and they just look gorgeous. I mean, this movie was shot by Vilmos Zsigmond, one of the all time great DPS, one of the great cinematographers. So that's awesome. So that the McCabe and Mrs. Miller. No. McCabe. Mrs. Miller long goodbye, Scarecrow. Obsession one is only Oscar for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Also to the deer Hunter, heaven's gate blowout. He's great. Great DP, great double feature. Deliverance in The Deer Hunter. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sell it. Sell to us. Just the the magazine. Yeah, it's a man. It's trapped. I mean, that's exactly right. Like, I was thinking that I was like, there's a lot of actual, like, there's a lot of relationship between The deer Hunter in deliverance because of, like, you're essentially taking a group of friends and then they're they all go through something that there is no coming back from emotionally and, and, and, and the aftermath of it all. And, you know, one is war and the other one and it's very, very apparent that you were saying that James Dickey I feel like there's there's only something that really going through war can really you can wrap your head around and and it is these types of moments. It's these things where it's like you strip away everything about who we are. We just really have people. I'm not going to say, man, because that's that's not exactly right. But it's basically in this sense of what we're talking about, it's humanity at least. Yeah. It's it's it's when you're stripped down from everything, you don't have any kind of ego, no stake in the game, but you're faced with what humanity can be. It's when it's at its worst. Yeah. How how do you act? How do you deal? How do you, And then. And what happens after that? This really something that only really happens in war. And there's a lot of there is that theme of that here because essentially they are kind of going through a war like situation, not exactly like, but there's they're being hunted. That is one of the reasons why I love the movie so much, because after squeal like a pig, you got an hour movie left, like you are being hunted actively. Yeah, yeah. And what do you need to do to survive? How do you need to do to protect your life? And in this case, their friends. But in war, your your your entire like, you know, crew your. Yeah. Your fellow soldiers, like, how do you keep everyone alive I like yeah. So there's some good comps there. Yeah. I mean, it's a hell of a night down there. Hunter. That's a wild w seal of approval right there, man. Bro. Lonesome, look, we had to the end of it. I don't know, you throw it, you throw in some Snickers and some dude wipes. You got a night going? Jesus Christ, what the fuck are those for? I don't even want to know. Oh, my God, that's not going to make the cut. No. Maybe not. So our movie, that's how. That's how our movie started. We got four friends who want to take canoeing trip based heavily off of one guy, Lewis, played by Burt Reynolds. He's the one leading the charge. He is absolutely the alpha of the group. James Dickey It sounds like based aspects of his personality on each of the four guys. So we're really seeing four different versions of the author. And, you know, the first thing they do, they're like, let's go find some random guys who will drive our cars several miles down the road so we can, you know, pick them up. It which itself to me sounds risky. I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I'd trust that. You know, it's a terrible idea. And that's actually a prompt that I have do it's absolutely it's terrifying in hindsight when right before they get in the canoes, they look back and those three guys who are going to drop their cars that are shaking their heads and laughing at them, and it's like, dude, did those guys somehow communicate? Did word get around to the mountain men and, you know, I don't know, like, there's, there's this whole world here, but it's a huge shock when they get to entry and their cars are there. You're like, Holy shit, they actually did it. Oh, my God, that's crazy. You know, this might not be a bad time to bring up my wife and. Oh, wow, folks, we're we're breaking protocol again. We're jumping ahead to the DHC. The Nick does still hot take. He's giving it to us early again. He can't hold back. Well because you said I have free rein of when I can bring it up. You can drop any time. And I feel like if we don't, if we don't bring it up right now because this is the perfect time. So this isn't a hot take necessarily in terms of like how they've been where this is like, you know, like all that jazz or anything like that. This is a this is a personal hot take, on, on on the story of this situation, our crew, Jon Voight, Burt Reynolds, Ned Beatty, right. Ronny Cox, they had it fucking coming. They had this fucking come in. They mouth, man. Toothless, man. Good. They hero fucking. They fucking are these city boys who roll up in this world that's not theirs and just fucking say, hey, do what I tell you. I mean, Louis is approach isn't exactly the most tactful, and maybe it's what works for these guys, but my ass. I mean, he's really pushing it. Yeah, sort of like, hey, we need you to drive our cars. And the amount of money that you say, my ass and then he goes, and he cuts him off in the front, and it's sort of like these guys are being, you know, these fucking white dudes just fucking showing up in other people's lands. Yeah, being very disrespectful. I'm not saying that they deserved what they got, but they had it coming. You were all joking aside. That's not all joking aside, John Boorman. Yeah, even kind of suggests that a little bit in the commentary. It's like the you can take the rape as literal. Okay. But I think even what James Dickie was getting at is that it's, you came to my land like you're trying to rape my land with your city boy ways. So now, like, yeah, the river, this untamed, unpolluted river is going to fuck you up now. And the river itself and all the offs, shoots of it, like whatever will happen. So. Yeah, like, you know, one forced them to go out and do this. It's crazy. The whole setup is crazy. That is part of the whole set was wild part of the. That's a little bit more of what you get in the book. Is Ed from that first person narrate being like, I didn't want to do this, but it part of that, danger is what adds to the, the, you know, the it's what compels them to go actually do this thing. That's part of the scene. Let's go be men. Let's go test ourselves. Get out of the get off the golf club, out of our comfortable living rooms, and let's go, you know, try to be one with nature. Yeah. What what what happens? Yep. It's. There it is. What happens? There's my hot take. Thank you I like it. That's a good one. What do you think folks? Let us know. And we like to you underscore podcast of the end. Well I think it's time we've about arrived up to the banjo scene, which is, you know, I mean, aside from squeal like a pig actually know the banjo, seeing a lot of the films we're discussing in this part series, they have iconic scenes, some of the most iconic scenes in the history of cinema. In fact, very few of them have those scenes at the six minute mark of the movie. I mean, this is a legendary scene, just those few chords you can play in almost any of you may never have seen deliverance, but you may know what those chords are from or what they signify. And it's a scene that will outlive us all. And it is obviously have, as we've mentioned, the most famous scene of the movie. There's no other scene in deliverance that has caused nearly as much discomfort discussion as the banjo scene. Nothing at all. Nothing. But. I. How many times have we heard that banjo riff done to manipulate us into thinking the worst possible thing, like so many comedies. Do it. Yeah. There's a nobility rapist right over here. That. That is what that little chord riff yes signifies. That's exactly what it is. And it happens in almost like any movie ever made about camping. There's some kind of. Except maybe Star Trek five, naturally, but there actually is a complete rip off in the dialog and Star Trek five with that. Okay, but I'm not. Yeah, yeah. You ready? You're ready. Up goes like, why? Why are you why are you climbing this mountain, Jim? Because it's there. Oh, my God, I love you. But what the hell? You. What the hell? You want to go fuck around that room for? Because it's there. I mean, it's a good enough reason. Is any, I guess, but I. Yeah, that's. Suppose I love that guy too. Stared at him like, whoa, you want me to do what? What the hell? You want to go fuck around every. Both. Oh, God. Can you and your brother drive two cars down the entry force? Driving down there for what? Oh, me and my buddy here. We're going to take a canoe trip down like a Hulu watch. We'd like to have them cars. And when we get there, you know, by Sunday noon canoe trip. That's right, a canoe trip. What the hell? You want to go fuck around that river for? Because it's there. It's there. All right, you get in there. And you. Dad, you're going to wish it wouldn't. Listen to us. Let's go. But, yeah, the banjo scene is just. I mean, it's great you feel the way Ronny Cox, like, picks up. I'm with the kid. I'm with you. It's really great how they shot it. Because the the, you know, the hand playing the music, the one up top. I don't know what the hell it's called. It wasn't that kid's hand they had, like, an expert banjo player sitting right underneath him doing it. But I love that because you can't tell and all. And it just, you know, the old man just starts dancing. You're like, what? What world have I ventured into? They all see, but it's kind of it's, you know, it's fun. It's like, hey, yeah, this is fun isn't normal people. They play music. What's wrong? Nothing wrong with this. And there's probably nothing. I don't know who knows how deep that that family goes. But I always thought that kid was. Was kind of like, you know, like, cute. Well, I didn't think he was. You know, he's got some, like, you can tell he starts him off. I mean, yeah, he's got some, some, some some things, kid. Lonnie. But yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then I mean, they go to the other house and Voight sees that woman and that girl. I mean, these are real people. These are. These are real people. Yeah, these are real people that they cast. Or rather, that were there. The, one thing I want to point out, and this will just be a thing that I'll probably continuously point out, is I think this movie is a masterclass in terms of blocking. It absolutely is. I'm so glad you said that. It's honestly displayed. No better than in the lead up to the assault, the blocking of that lead up, that really long tail. Yep. Is yep. Like that stage it that's the it's theater. It's brilliant. It really is. You're right. And even in the opening scene when they're all getting out of their cars, that's one take before we start to move. And there's a cut. I mean, when you're talking about having the frame and having multiple actors share that frame, there's never a moment where it doesn't look like everyone who is in that frame is exactly where they need to be. And even when it starts to get more claustrophobic, you're still sharing the frame with like five different people. Yeah sometimes even more. And you just don't really notice it when it's not until you start to like it's not until you ever actually like make a movie when you start to realize like, oh shit, it looks way too cluttered. How do we like really hard to do like it. That's what you take for granted. Like, you know, the average movie watcher. Like it's extremely hard to block five, six people in. Yeah, space. This is why I've been really putting you. Yeah. In a frame. Yeah, I there is no better if you want to know everything about blocking, everything about staging and how to do it the best I can think of no better example than Akira Kurosawa is high and low, which is going to be remade very shortly. The remake of it, Highest to Lowest, starring Denzel Washington, directed by spike Lee. I'm nervous, but that's okay. You can't touch Kurosawa. Spike has to know that. But man, the first act of High and Low is like the best staging you've ever seen. It's all takes place in an apartment, and it's just a bunch of guys. Like, I've even sent you video clips of it. Been like, but deliverance is great, but that that's Vilmos, it's Vilmos Sigman and Borman knowing how to, like, place people. Yep. So I just wanted to get that out because it's, it's it's throughout the whole entire movie. It's it's just amazing. No, I love that. And I want to before we're done with the banjos thing. The first time I ever heard about deliverance, I don't know if anyone will have any idea. What I'm talking about. Was a cartoon called, Looney Tunes Tiny Toon Adventures. How I spent my summer vacation with Steven Spielberg. Presented it? Yeah, the idea that there's this boy, like, playing the banjo. This, you know, I think he's a rat or or a possum, and he's on the bridge at one point, and I'm like, what the hell is this? And then I seen deliverance a few years later, like, so that, like this kids thing was ripping off deliverance. It's oh, man, it's hilarious. I love yeah, when there's terror and ass trying to find the river and yeah, like you said, he. Oh, yeah, he takes the wrong turn. That guy goes, it ain't nothing but the biggest fucking river in the state. We'll find it, we'll find it. I, I love when he takes the wrong turn. And then they get to that. Yeah. Then Burt goes, well, we fucked up. Yeah, well, we'll find it. That is conviction. What? He sees the river and, like, it's glistening off his face and his eyes. He's so fanatical. I love it. It's it's, it's honestly, it's really good because, like, this is the beginning of, like, what? These, like, the roles of men and, like, how they are and, like, you have this extreme guy in this Burt Reynolds guy like, to me, I don't know where this dude came from. I don't know what he does it. You probably know more because it's probably more into the book. But, I mean, I love where in that scene where they're driving because Burt is just he is hyper focused. You know, it's going to be safe. You know, it's going to be wild like, but but this is the type of guy he is is if to our point earlier like as long as I'm living I'm going to with everything in my power make sure nothing happens. And but I love there's a moment where because Jon Voight is like holding on for dear life and there is some concern in his voice. He's like, you're going to kill us before we even get there. But then there's like a moment where he stops and just like, observes him, like he takes him in. And you see this? At least this is my take on it was this is the friend that I have that I feel safest with. Like there is a moment in his eyes when he's looking at them and then you don't really hear him say it anymore. He's not worried about dying in this moment anymore. He just sort of he's voiced his concerns. Burt is either dismissed them or has not said anything in return. And in that moment as friends, that that is how Jon Voight views him. And I'm like, this is just, this is just really great stuff. And this just sort of is the beginning of what these kind of guys represent to each other. And then the doubts that they all have within that dynamic as well as it continues to go on. Yes, yes. And I, I actually think this stuff even starts earlier. There's a lot of really good foreshadowing in here, like talking about the bow and arrow. Of course, seeing Burt fish like Louis Fish, you know, that's easy foreshadowing. That's pretty obvious. Notice when they pull up to the house before the banjo, before anything they get out of their cars. Ned Beatty goes around the house and he sees the old guy walking and he goes, yeah, turns around and says, Louis, we got a live one here, baby doll. Talk to him, and he's going to encounter, you know, the men, 40 minutes from now. And also like, immediately looked at Jon Voight like, okay, what's going on here? So that right there like that, Louis, this is your show. Like, I'm not dealing with this stuff. And yeah, there is a, you know, Bobby did that baby character and Louis have a very contentious relationship. They don't seem to get along, but there's still this thing of, like, he. This guy, if he's got Aaron, his lungs will be okay. Which is why it's so great that what takes him out is a leg injury. Like, now you get to play the game. That's, you know, I mean, that's what that's the thing that takes him out because it can happen to anybody. And not only that, but that's just honestly, it's just the smartest writing and smartest storytelling ever is that when you are in a situation where your life is at stake in through nature and through man, and you've you've poised a character to be the guy that is the epitome of safety no matter what. And and he's already been done so much because he kills the mountain man, he comes to the rescue. He's in charge of everything. No one ever doubts that. And now you take out that one person. It's just it's it's the only. It's the only. It's it's the only move you can make as a writer if you're just if you're placing it all. But but when it happens, it's not like I was like thinking about that. It wasn't. It wasn't. I was like, oh, man, you know what? The best thing they should do right here is take out Bert. Because like. But then when it happens, you're, you're like, oh my God, the one guy, the one guy in this situation who cannot be taken out is taken out. What do we do? Yeah. What now that feeling when it washes over you. And especially because we've seen everything we've seen up until that point, it there's no more kind of dread that you could ever have when they're in the water and they're both circling. And Bert screams out, my legs broke! I remember I heard I go and he didn't, he didn't know that's not what he said. He did not like, tell me. He did not just say his leg is broken. The screams it out again. I broke my leg and I go, I know this is it's amazing. It's amazing. And you see that fucking bone just sticking out of it looking that. Oh, with the skin flaps hanging off. I know I love their first nighttime scene. You know, they've had a good first day. They've hit some good rapids, got some fish. Another thing that's like, you know, maybe spell it out a little more in the book, but we just give little glimpses. That is when you hear Jon Voight say, Louis doesn't drink. It's like, oh, okay, that's kind of telling like that. Mr.. And I also love the next morning how he's like kind of whimpering as he's sleeping, you know. Oh, it tries to wake. Yeah. And he's got that little whimper and there's just yeah, it's a way more all these men, these characters have such, interior lives that we feel like coming out in these little things and just these, they leave us with these questions that we have. And that's such that I love that moment right there, because you even see Jon Voight's reaction to it. It's like, oh, I didn't expect Louis in like in the most vulnerable of states to like, purr and have maybe like a sort of sensitivity here that like, you know, or a vulnerability, you know, it's just it the love that I absolutely love that. And now some bridges, one of my favorite lines of the entire movie, and it's a line that I'm going to say for a long time, night has fallen. And there's nothing we can do about it. Is that exactly right? Yes. Exactly right. I thought, if you like, that is something you would say if you were just like you. I'm the bag and we're getting ready to go to sleep. And you're like, you know, if neither song, there's nothing we can do about it. He plays so well, it's so good. Yeah. And then he wakes, another like, kind of foreshadowing. Yeah, but not really. It's just him going for going to hunt kind of callback to your, deer Hunter double feature, going to hunt and can't commit to killing the deer has the shakes because, why? Because he just can't emotionally do it. Whatever it is. But that is obviously going to be hugely important later. He has to commit to the kill. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you are going to be taking a life no matter what it is. Are you prepared to take a life? Are you deer or mountain man or otherwise. So it's day two in the book known as September 15th and Louis done one run Bob. Any more take that big fellow with you today. You knowing me? Yeah. Bobby doesn't want to be yelled at anymore. And that's I already. You know, I touched on it, when we started, but that is kind of one of the sliding doors of this movie. The what if if it was still Louis and Bobby, what happens if they pull over and are waiting for the others? And then we're not to go down the what if we can just stick to the text because 38 minutes into deliverance, we're going to get. Yeah. One of the most, terrifying and truly menacing scenes ever captured in film. I actually think, Nocturnal Animals did a really good job at this. That does that ends with an assault that we don't see, thank God. But they stretch the it's about, oh, God, it's like a six minute. I don't I risk calling it, manipulation scene of them, you know, to where they can get Voight against the tree and Bobby, you know, running for his life. And he stretches and it's like 25 minutes and nocturnal Animals. But that fear of, like, I can't, I'm powerless. I can't do anything in the way. They're just low piled into it. It's, It is, It's terrible. I mean, the most I've written about this sequence on my blog years ago, but the most terrifying moment of the whole thing is when they're talking, talk about this great blocking. They've got them all in frame in that long shot. And those two mountain men fucking look at each other, and they hold that for about five seconds. And in that five seconds, to me it's there's a commitment that is communicated like, yeah, we're going to do this. Yeah. Fuck these two. Like these two city boys ain't making it out of this. And yeah. Now we come up to the rape in deliverance and what a scene. The way they shot it. They shot it. How many times? Once. Once. I mean, with a few cameras going. And that's how they did it wisely. All from mostly all from Voight's perspective. The one thing I do want to say in terms of the blocking of it is that it's really, again, just bringing out like the craftsmanship of this is you've got like when they're all sharing the frame, but because they're all very close. Right. And it's something sometimes to me, the most terrifying moments of this whole entire scene are actually like when them one mountain man is just touching that baby's face, like, sort of like the way whispers him. Yeah. That that's the first hint when he's like, he's like, you guys lost. And he does that and you're like, what the fuck? What? And yeah, and Ned Beatty, I just, I just champion his performance here because the way that he lets that happen, like, because he just sort of he's like, well, you know. Yeah. You know, and he starts to back away. But then the guy just and he taps his chest and, and and he's like petting his face and oh my God, Ned Beatty, you just know that he's not the type of person that knows how to handle himself in this situation. No. And and is nothing but retreating. And then this is why you go back to like that would those fingertips would never come close to Lewis's face without them being broken. Yeah. But also, now that we're separating everybody, we're starting everyone sharing this frame. But the mountain men are they're literally crossing each other in the camera. And sure, that look. Yep yep yep. I'm working. I'm going to step in between here. And then when you do get the actual scene that's happening, when you're getting the wide shot of it, they're they're all happening in like like the corner bottom right, almost of the entire screen. And then the rest of the frame is lit up, is showing the, the woods like the surrounding environment. And it's like, what I just think is so disturbing about that cinematography is exactly what that whole entire scene represents. Is that in nature you can have this beautiful sound. The the river is right there. And then over here in this tiny, little carved out section of the world. This act is happening. Yes. And then just over yonder, like a couple feet away, another man is tied up, can't do anything, and is forced to watch it. And then river. Little canoe trip and, Aintree. And it sure as River only runs one way cam to her, you ain't never going to get down to. And. Well, why not go this river? Don't go there and you don't take a wrong turn to, to share a river. Don't go nowhere near Andre. Where does it go then? Boy, your last night. Well, hell, I, I guess this river comes out somewhere. I don't know, that's where we're going. Somewhere. Look, we don't want any trouble here. If you don't have a still near here, hell, that's fine with us. Well, sure. We never tell anybody where it is. Go. You know something? You're right. We're loved. I don't know where in hell we are. I feel right, yeah. You make us some whiskey up here. Well, buy some from me. We could use good money. Well, you know what are you talking about? Oh, we know what you're talking about. No, you said something about making noise. You really think what you said? Almost no one up. We don't know what, You're done and we don't care. It's none of our business. That's right. And you goddamn better, right? We've got, quite a long journey ahead of us. Gentlemen, will we change? No. Damn. We're. And it. There's just this. And this happens again. I point out that this is part of that, you know, weird way to say it, but the poetic system of this is that they're just showing you the reality. It's just. Yeah, this is. Yes. Yes, this is just something that is happening and there's nothing that we can do about it as an audience. So you're just forced to kind of sit with it and deal with it. And then the fact that none of the other guys this is, I think, a very, very the way that they all do and don't talk about what just happened. Yeah. As the friends yeah, is very fascinating to me because essentially, Burt Reynolds comes and saves the day throughout from a distance. John Voight's about to have his own experience until Burt Reynolds comes from the corner and we see Jon Voight see Burt with the lining up the arrow. And one shot dude's dead. Takes a long time to die to win. And the other thing to where it's sort of like we're watching a man now die in front of us. We hold the camera, holds him, and he. And the actor is great because he's got his arm, like up and he's like walking and they're all observing him. We're all like, in this one. We're. We're like. We're watching a man die. We're watching a man bleed out. This is all happening right in front of us. And then they all deciding. And, you know, I love that, this movie deliverance took from very bad things. And. And if you knew that. Oh. Did it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Jumped in the future again. Yeah. Jumped in the future again. And and you know now because now they're all talking about how they were going to what are they going to do. They're going to bury this body. We're going to put it to a vote, all this and that. But they're weighing out all the options and the way that they talk about Ned while he's there. But that disassociated look, he has in his eyes, there's a very, very clear shift that I love. And Ned Beatty's performance throughout this whole movie is that he acts a certain kind of way up until here, after the shock of what's just in the vulnerability of him, he puts his clothes back on. And so he has those moments where he, like, tries to attack the body of, of the the mountain man not doing anything foolish here. Come on. The. Yeah. But for the rest of the movie he's quite capable. Yes. This is also part of the theme of the film. Yes. He has been tested and and brutalized, but he wants to live still. And that is on full display. Yeah. And it seems to me that every challenge that he's tasked with then on it's not that scary to him. There's not a lot of it's just, oh, this is just what needs to be done. And this is the and here are the facts. That's kind of what it seems like. He kind of does from here on out. Like even later on, like when they're trying to figure out what to do. And he goes, Lewis said that he think he's been shot. So there's a guy up there and he's hunting us like he just says things very matter of factly. And then even with the negotiating of later on when they're this is our story. I told them everything I said we talked about. I didn't say anything wrong. I did it right like that. Ned Beatty does not exist. That character, like he would be fumbling for his words later on, talking to the cops. He's he's even the last guy. He's like stoic. He's like, nope, I didn't say that. And then, oh, yeah, we learn that, like, this guy's brother in law went hunting. It's got to be one of them. It's gotta be, you know, he went off hunting in the woods. Hadn't seen him for a while. Where is he? All right. You opened a lot up. One more. It's it's it's it's when it's when they think that their stories unraveling and they're talking in that outside door of the house, and Jon Voight and Ned Beatty start to get a little physical with each other. Yeah, just throwing a ball wall. Yeah. And John and there's like a moment where they both realize that, like, John Voight's like, maybe I shouldn't be rough with this guy. He's been through a lot. Yeah, you see that? When when you see that. But then you see Ned Beatty. Because when he's being thrown up, there's a moment where he retreats to that physicality of, like, just don't touch me. Don't touch me. But then he stops and he actually holds himself up against the wall with this to me, just like this. Yeah. Stoicism. And then he just says it to him. I forgot what the lines were, but he's sort of like, I did exactly what you told me. Yeah, and I don't think he believes me. Boom the like. But there's that moment of like put your hands off me. I'm not I'm not going to crumble where as another actor could play that very differently and be like, I don't, I didn't know what to do. I just don't, don't do that. But he's not ever going back to that. I love that you open that up and touched on that when they get physical with each other because, yeah, it's very, you see like over both of them that kind of recognition of what's come up. But to go back to the assault, my favorite always let's go back to the best scene. Yeah. My favorite zoom shot in the history of cinema is, oh, first of all, there's there's the cutaway of him seeing Louis just boom, storm into frame on the canoe. And then a little time has passed and we see void. See, Bert. And that zoom shot is just frames that zoom or crash zooms on Louis. And that is what's so fucking brilliant. We don't see Louis get like, assessing it from his end. It's just we know well enough that this is exactly what he would do. He would assess silently and have that bow fucking out. Yeah. It's a I was really, really curious to see how such a scene would be handled, written down in a book. Very well done, very, very well done in it. You know, when it's the one little piece of like kind of added detail when it's done is that Louis was waiting back there for a little bit to wait for the right shot. And so that's you get a little bit more of that in the book, but I oh my God, that zoom in shot of him. And then we cut to it again and he's just holding. And as soon as they pass the gun over boom he just gets him. Yeah. And then you know we got to give we got to get some shout outs here. Bill McKinney as the mountain man. This is a real actor. He was in. Yeah. Outfit a great movie. Thunderbolt Lightfoot. He plays an assassin in The Parallax View, a Alan J. Pakula movie that I absolutely love. It's an outlaw Josey Wales, The Shootist. The other guy is Herbert Cowboy Coward. He was not very well known as an actor. He was a friend of Bert's, like just from old TV days. And he called him up and he got the part because, you know, he didn't have those teeth and sounds like his big, payment. He had to be paid kind of in beer, and he would slug back a case of beer at the end of every night and then be ready to shoot. But they were there. I mean, when you watch this, you think that these guys are real like that. You just think that that man's teeth are stained that badly, like you just believe it. And then to hear at the end, like, you know, this guy and his brother in law went up hunting, like, these are human beings. Like they had families. The two of those men is wearing a fucking wedding ring. He has he has bands on both, ring fingers. I looked his the the the one on his right hand. It's much more prominent, but he's wearing one on his left. I looked it up. Yeah. You know, the. These are human beings. I actually had some. So I had to mention that zoom shot. But then I wanted, two prompts. One. Have the mountain men done this before? Have they done this like, is this something. Yeah. And then were they going to kill them? Oh yeah. Yeah, I do too I absolutely do, I think that I think that's what's communicating. The five second looked at we're going to take these city boys out, but we're also going to have our way with them first. And that's why when the death happens and you know, Louis Bert is so proud of his kill like he's just staring at it, like staring down at him. Send a shot and he touches the arrow, you know? And Voight's kind of out of it. And yeah, the way I mean, drew is being so like, gentle with Bobby and, you know, really like, kind of their form. But yeah, the way they're all talking about it, about Drew's, like our members of our party were sexually assaulted. You know, he's having trouble getting to it. He's the he's the only one that says it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's the only one who really brings it up and just spells it out. And then I, you know, we get that debate, the test of morals. Like, what do we do here? And, you know, it is a matter of the law. Well where's the law. And and I also love I also think this is a very telling moment of drew when they run in, he's chasing after that other one. Yeah. With an with with and or and like it, like he screams out like you son of a bitch. Like he's just going after him. It makes me think that given a different position to he might have acted differently in that moment. It seems like it seems like he has some fight to him. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But then, you know, and then what's really funny too and not funny, but it's it's it's, it's very fascinating that he takes a lot of that charge in that conversation and then negotiation, if he believes in something that they don't end up doing. Yeah. It's not until the burying when he gets into it. Yep. Where where that. And again this is that thing that I like I was saying about how this movie just sort of lets these things be without drawing. Like, this movie is not manipulating you to feel a certain way. Know when they when they start carrying that body. I thought it was so like, this is amazing to watch because Ned is struggling to hold up the leg. Yeah, in the creek of the guy who just just sexually raped him and he's being like careful with the leg. And and then when they go and bury it's all just sound. Yeah. It's the deep breathing of drew. And then like we kind of just end this week. We, we have to get this buried so we can move on from this. But all you're hearing is the creek and it's right there in that moment where that's up to you as a film audience. How far do you really want to go examining how you feel right here? Like, are you taking in like to account? What would you do? How do you feel about this? Do you put yourself in the shoes of any or all of these people and and I love that. It's not until the burying is where drew that's where his shock comes in and ends up dying because of it. Really? That's the breaking point. That's the thing that for whatever reason, his mind can't handle. And that's what causes his shock and all that. It's a great journey into our next big moment because they he's he's not like into the burying. But you know he gets he's like all right let's do it. Let's do it. So worked up worked up and worked it out I also I have to go back to really the last time the assault is mentioned. And any way is when Bobby goes, let's bury him. I don't want any of us getting around. And you're like, wow, I mean, it probably. Is he burying this assault? Is he ever going to talk about this again, ever? You know, I just and then in the very, very end, the last things they say each other. I don't think I'm going to see you for a while, you know. Yes, I, I understand why I yeah, I get it. Yeah. But yeah they leave and now we're like at mini minute 50 of the movie and, the assault is done. The burying is done. Why they've decided to buries because it's all going to be underwater soon. Thank you. Very bad things. Yeah, sure. You know, but that's another bit of the influence, you know, Peter Bergen, watch this shit. I mean. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And now we have the aftermath to deal with. Now we have that. Louis is so, Sure that they are being hunted right away and, you know, keep going. Keep going down the river. Go fast, go faster. These horrific rapids that they get to. And then it's not really like a question or a prompt, but, was drew shot is something that comes up. I have a strong feeling of, no, I don't think I was. I just think he is in such a state of shock. And whether he falls out, he jumps out. I think he's like, what is this like? There is no humanity here. There's no law, as Louis made clear, and there's no humanity. There's only assault and the fear of death. So yeah, he falls out and then they get that horrific journey down the rapids, which Bert did that stunt himself. They got a double for Voight. But, yeah, it's so believable that I broke my leg. Oh, my God. They get down at the canoe like splits. Oh, they get to the end. Yeah, it's really another great. I mean, from from here to the end of the film, there is not a slow or dull second like, it's just cooking. You go wait, you you took out the, the king wolf like leader of the pack, like, oh my God then yeah. Now you get to play the game. Do. Do what's. Madam. Louis, I'm gonna follow the sign. There's something wrong. Oh, God. Oh, what is it? Oh! Stop it! No, no, no, you know what? I'm Christ man. Oh, God damn. I, thank. So our next big thing is the, the gorge. That's, like, kind of our next big scene, and I got. I love this scene so much. 13 minute sequence up and down this gorge. The good thing about it is, like, like, these are the type of things where you kind of wonder when someone is doing something like, like, don't be stupid. Like, yeah, I, you know, but what I loved about it is that it wasn't really, the like, it would have made more sense to me if he would have put the crossbow across his body, you know, when he was going up the gorge because he's only carrying it over his shoulder. If he did it, if he did it this way diagonally, then, like, he wouldn't have had to worry about carrying it. But that's also, you know, talking to someone who's never like what? Like climbed up a mountain gorge holding a crossbow. Yeah. You put, well, the one over your shoulder and have it go the bow this way. So it's all on your back. He's carrying it one arm like a backpack, and he's almost like dropping it every time. This would have ensured that it would have stayed sure. And Lewis would have done that. But I don't think Ed knows to do that. And this is like, oh yeah, and yes, this is all building to it. So yeah, they're going up there because what if the toothless man is hunting us? If he knows where we are, we sure as hell know where he's going to be. And that that was it was like, that was the first scene that I saw from the movie. Him climbing up, getting up there. I happen to love the day for night ness of these scenes. I love that they look so. 1972 Boardman. It's like, yeah, of course he would just do this and CGI now. And but I'm listening to his commentary going, at least Voight was there. Yes, all this would be CGI now. It would look terrible. Like at least he's there. He's on top of this gorge. I get that you had to change it day for night, but I don't know. I think it looks okay. I think it looks good, I like it well. And there's also like a lot of, there's also like a lot of metaphor here. Like I like some of that, some of just like the color it you start to notice throughout that that switching just because they don't have like the lighting and it starts to look weird. It ends up becoming almost like this, like trippy, like like psychedelic type thing. But that actually plays because he is now sitting with the horror of what he's just had in it. It's, you know, you're kind of lose your mind a little bit. And and then you will wake from it in the morning with your like that's that moment that Jon Voight awakes. Oh when you see the toothless guy in the background. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. You like because he, you, it acknowledges that he's stirred and that like the whole entire reason he made this climb was to go and kill this guy. And he's literally just woken up. Shit is right there in front of me. It's time to go. Yep. Okay, here it comes. And what I also love too, is like, he he plays that so well because the way that he gets out the crossbow and takes that aim, there is no hesitancy until he allows it. He has it all. Yeah. And he has it all the way back. Yep. Yep. There's there's competence. There's confidence. There's all of that in his eyes and in his posture. But it's not until he lines him up. And then it's sort of like if he had just not thought for a single second. So we're taking him out. Boom. Right then there. But then he allows for that moment, which is just good, you know, cinematic storytelling, but it's also human. It's also very, very human. Yeah. Because there's also a slight twinge of, is this the guy? I mean, they hold that out till the end, like, oh my God, he has his teeth. And then they see the no teeth thing. But when he's back, you know, I it's just it's so well staged. And he lets go of the arrow, the shot goes off and then, oh my God, when he falls in, the fucking arrow goes through him. Not only that, but then he he has to pull it out, voice acting on that one because he can't scream. So he just like. And yeah, it gives it to Yanks. It's the toothless guys coming over. And we don't know. We don't know if that arrows in him and voice just pulls out that massive knife and you're like here it is, here it is. And then you see the reveal. It's like a western. It's like a scene out of a Western. It's really it's so well staged. I mean, even the thing is too is like, you know, the question is whether or not that's the mountain man or if it's just some guy, you know, like, I think that's a valid question. But at the same time, you know, because Voight takes so long, I'm hesitating. That guy is sizing him up like he grabs his gun and points right him. So at this point, whether it's the mountain man or not, oh, you're going to point a gun at me. One of us is one of us. Yep, one of us. Exactly. So it's like not even a matter of like at that point. But I love that because Ned Beatty brings that up. Like later. Yeah. That's the other thing too is like when he starts lowering the body I was like just drop his ass. But then you know I'm like but then I'm like, oh yeah, he's using this as leverage to get down himself. Yeah. And and I love when that all happens because when he does fall and he comes in the water, Ned Beatty is like he says to him, I just love Ned Beatty in this. He's like, he's like, you did it. And he's like, you, you like. But the way that he says it is not in a state of like, I can't believe it. It's like you did that. Like you. You. We needed you. I can't crawl up this thing. Lewis is about to die. We need you to do this. And you did it like. It's not like a it's not a. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. It's a straight up. You succeeded when we needed you to succeed. Let's go. It's it's amazing. And I love the line and the line delivery of Ned Beatty going. Lewis had a bad night once. I thought he died at, like, yo, bad night. We all know what that mean. It's like we. Oh, it doesn't need to be any more expressive. We all know that. And, yeah, I mean, seeing the alpha take it out like that. You're right. Like Ed had to step up. Bobby's had to step up. The people who were abused are now the ones who had to take care of shit. I don't believe it. If you did it, if. He killed it. Good, good. Louis Lewis had a bad night on Saturday night. You did it good. Yeah, and it's true. I love that line, too, because. Exactly. Because you know exactly what kind of night there was. And he's just letting you know, it's like. Yeah, he's, It's not good. He had a bad time and. Yeah. And exactly. And because of that, the imagination starts to go because exactly to your point, you can imagine what kind of night that was for Louis. I mean, he can't he he's passed out from the pain, that infection now. Oh, here's the question. You think Louis loses that leg? Yeah. The doctor does say he might have to lose the leg whether he does or not. I don't think he cares in particular, but, I mean, you could have. They're in a funk it river like with an exposed open fracture, like the bone sticking out of it. Yeah. It wouldn't be surprising if he had to lose it, but, Yeah, I mean, I don't know, and especially because they keep traveling. And the longer that that said. So he's already he's going he's going on close to 48 hours until he actually gets medical attention for it. But I love that doctor though, because if you catch his actual line, he's like, he goes, there's a chance to get to lose. Like, we'll see you later. Yeah. He says that he walks right out. Yeah. Before they find, you know, that town we do have the the burial of drew of sorts. We've talked about Ronnie Cox was double jointed and was just able to do that with his fucking arm, which I love. It looks. And they put a little bruise on his armpit. You know, he was the best of us. Amen. And I love Bert's little recognition. He can't really talk, but just the nod of like, yeah, like you're doing it right. And like, this is you're playing the game correctly and and it was also like, you know, that he probably just woke up from his passed out paying for this and that. He's going right back out, you know, but it's like, I'm here for this until they hit those rapids. Yeah. And then they're still not out of it. Like they got to do another intense rapid with an injured guy now in the canoe. And then they get there. I love the sense of relief on BD when he kind of leans up and then just leans over the boat when they see those dilapidated cars, you know, we made it, we made it. And then this is where Voight's like, no, like we are not out of this yet. We have to get ours. We can't keep them from looking up river. God damn it, Bobby Lewis just kind of like going along with it, going along. And I love that. It's really wild to see them back in civilization. And it's wild to see. First of all, it's those guys. There's that kid like you. Okay, sir. And they're all, yeah, everyone's being so nice to them and like, helpful. And we get that, Boorman's favorite scene of the film. The meal is the communal meal, which is. Yeah. I mean, look at Bobby. It's like the best. Okay, now he's gone through the worst. I mean, drew, I guess he's gone through the worst time. But Bobby is, like, here eating and playing the game, you know, and keeping the good face. And I just love passing the food. And it's like what Lewis says in the book. These are simple people. But a lot of these mountain people are good people. And you see that here, passing the biscuits, passing the corn, accepting that Jon Voight cries and letting letting it just like sit there. It's a beautiful scene. It's a beautiful scene. There's a lot of, and Ned Beatty's eyes towards Jon Voight, like, yeah, going back to like, he like, he's like, this is the guy that saved our lives. And, and and I love that scene because I think, like, what I wrote down here is, it's like, this movie in this moment kind of encapsulates the kindness of humanity versus the most barbaric of humanity. Yeah. In in, just in and but you don't. We've only experienced the, the barbaric part of it up until this moment. Yeah. When someone's just passing food to you. And that's why Jon Voight cries like, that's my take on it was oh, yeah, yeah, it wasn't. And there's no right or wrong. Like, you could be like, maybe he's just so happy to have a meal, but it's sort of like, we've been through so much horror. This kindness is overwhelming. Absolutely. That's my read on it too. Absolutely. Talked about the confrontation. Like, you gotta get your story right. I and I really like that scene, but what do you, what do you make of the sheriff? You know who walks in? What do we do about this? You like this guy? I love this guy. Oh, well, that's that's the writer. Damn. But I didn't know if you do. Yes, yes. Okay. Thank you. They kicked him. Kicked him out of rehearsals. He wasn't allowed on the set. Then they brought him back for this. And he is, He's really good. Like he's in those. He is. I love that voice. Yes. And don't ever do not like this again, I love it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I think it's great that he comes in and then we're really seeing, like, it's just horrifying that like, the sheriff's lackey or, you know, his deputy has a brother in law that went hunting in the mountains and lost him. And it's that's probably one of these mountain men. It's, Well, it. Yeah, yeah. And I and I really like that they didn't spend too much time here. Yeah. Like, I like, this is just smart, like, you know, because we spent this whole entire movie here in the nature of this all, and and I'm glad that we, we needed to get a little bit of a resolution, like, everything does need to be. This is where you kind of just get to like, storytelling, where it's like, okay, we kind of got to wrap all this up, but yeah, that that whole entire end could be like 40 minutes if you really wanted to. I feel like in today's day and age you would, it would in today's day and age this would be six episodes. It would like. Yeah. The first episode would be everything before and then episode one would be the first day to the second. You know, it would, it would just be too long way too like we we get it enough to where it's perfect because it's like, oh, we are in civilization. There is lore. We've broken it. We have stories that we're we're saying to get rid of this. They're kind of crumbling. We're revising. We got to get everyone on board, and there's enough of this paranoia to exist. And then it all kind of gets washed away with that scene with the cop where it's like, to me, it's sort of like, all right, listen, I've been in this. I know this town. I know this area of the world. I know, I know the barbaric nature of what can happen out here. I don't know exactly what happened with you fellas out there. Some did, but something did. And you're not from here. Chances are, whatever did this to you probably had to come in. So, get the fuck out and never come back. And we're done. We're done? Yeah. Don't ever do nothing like this again. Yeah. Just go. And Lee. Yeah. And they wisely do, you know, go. I love that right up until the end. Why was there three life jackets and then Bobby. Oh, wait. Drew forgot one like voice goes, no, he didn't have it. He wasn't wearing it. And yeah, right until the end. These contradiction. Yes. How come you all end up for life jacket? Didn't we have an extra one? No. Drew wasn't wearing his. On. How come he. He wasn't wearing it? I don't know. Don't ever do that. Like this again. And we'll come back up here. You don't have to worry about that. Sure. And? And it's funny too, because that. And that's the truth to like. And that's just he just kind of he kind of stops posing at that point. He goes, no, that's actually what I went. One thing we didn't talk about is, the, the both scenes with Bert when they're formulating that plot right at the end and, and Bert's screaming with this most high pitched voice, I understand. Yeah, I understand you get said. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then also when they go to him to be like, we had to change our story. Yeah, we gotta change their story. And then Bert just does the smartest thing. He goes, I don't remember a single thing that happened. What? What happened? I don't remember, he gives me a little wink and he's. You don't remember anything? Yeah. What happened when? When Ned says, I'm probably not going to be seeing you again. You believe it? Oh yeah. And this is the thing that I love. This is something that I think about like in every thing that I ever write is like the most interesting thing that you can really imagine is what happens next for these types of guys. The next day. And the movie poses that like, does Bert lose his leg and they give you a, they give you a little bit with Jon Voight where it's like, this dude is going to be haunted by this for the rest of his life. That this worried that this hand could pop up at any time is going to hang over him. Just the nightmare of it. And and maybe Fernet. It won't. Maybe. Who knows? That's another what if. Like what? What was Bobby's life now? Yeah, like. Like I base off of his behavior. I think you were right. I think he buried that act in the woods with that. And from there, that's just not a thing that's ever talked about. And there are people that go through that where that's that, like it's over and done. It doesn't affect them in that way. Me maybe it does come out in other ways, but. Right, right. Yeah. Like people can just kind of be like, nope, not talking about that one. Trauma suppression is a very real thing. Yeah. You can. Yeah. And like, are these three ever meeting up for a beer again and like, hey, talking about the good old days, I don't know, I don't know, I, I bet Ed and Louis do. Yeah. Yeah though because Louis it to very least is going to want to know what how like what what happened on top of the gorge. Like I he he's going to want to know all that stuff. How do you do this Ed like how do you get your way. Get your way out of it. And it also goes back to that thing calling back to early on. It's like, why do you come on these trips with me? Ed yep. There is something about Ed that is something here. And the only person that I think the reason why I think that they still end up doing maybe not doing trips necessarily, but having a relationship is because I don't think Ed is ever going to tell his wife I don't like based off of the way that it ends. So he needs someone that he's going to, like, be able to talk to. Yeah. Or at least or at least be around where it's sort of like you're the only person who is there we don't need to talk about. But I just need to be around someone that just like, knows. Yeah. There's so much to. This is what I mean. This is there's so much fucking here. That's what is brilliant about the movies. An hour and 49 minutes, which we're like getting close to, arriving as long as we've been talking about it. And there's still so much more in the book. Does not that lay everything out? It doesn't give you answers to, like, what happens and stuff. That's what I really liked about the book. And every it's a great adaptation. It's just yeah, it's great. We're that's it. That's deliverance. What a film. What a delivered us. We delivered it, we delivered it. We always do the w New Hollywood categories. All right. What's your favorite thing that makes this the new Hollywood movie? I think it has to be. Exactly. You know, the thing that we kind of, like, talked about how it's the wrap that it's had for Century Center decades, but introducing this radical, awful, barbaric act into some kind of conversation point, you know, talking about how, you know, Virgin Spring that was done in, you know, Sweden, the introduction of, like, things like Straw Dogs, like just bringing forward to cinema this type of taboo. I don't even know how you would describe it, just, just putting this into a movie. Yeah. I had the sudden sexual violence. It's the same thing. Just basically no one is safe anymore in movies. Not, not even your favorite stars, whether they're movie star or they never been in a movie before, no character is safe anymore. This really opened the door to a different type of violence that could be depicted on film, and this movie was a hit like it was a hit. People went to the theater and saw it, so I yeah, I did the same thing is this is the director's best film. So for you, is this better than to us? Shh. Definitely. Definitely. It's tough, but yes, obviously this is my favorite Portman movie. I love Point Blank. I love hell in the Pacific. Yeah. He's also known for he made an autobiographical film called Hope and glory. He was nominated for a few Oscars for it about him growing up in London during the World War Two blitz attack, I was actually pretty shocked to find I never seen Hope and glory. I watch it for this. How similar that was to Steve McQueen's blitz from last year. It was. They were very, very similar, just certain things. Was this the actor's best performance? So Voight and or Burt and Beatty maybe had a great career too? I mean, Ned Beatty, but I think I would give it to Ned because just like just the way that he handles that switch. Yeah, yeah. Like he's essentially playing two different characters in this movie. And, and I believe both of them so. Well, and in a way that, like, it really moves me. So I would go with him to. Yes for Burt. I mean, it's probably this are Boogie Nights, and I don't know, it is. This is such a he knew what he was had the opportunity to do is Lewis and I mean down to the dam, the sleeveless wetsuit vest that he has on. It's just iconic. I mean, I love him in this, so Lewis is my favorite from him, I think. I think so too, because also and not to say like Burton any sort of way was, you know, not as good in Boogie Nights, but it's also like there's a, there's an iconic, legendary status that he brings. Yeah, that's there where this is just very much like, okay, I'm, I'm bringing this to a role. There's some that the use of him in here where he like delivers this had a performance that. Well so yeah I'll give it to this I'll give it to this I like it. And Jon Voight Anaconda. Come on. Anaconda again. Oh you want to come on snake. Is it. Put him back in the woods. He he did, he did. All right. There was tribute in the woods. And that's what Ed turns into. Yeah, exactly. Ed goes back. He goes back. But he's he's had enough of America. He goes down to wherever the hell if it's supposed to take place. And he goes, that's snakes of the area. Yeah, yeah, that's what he does. His accent, what happened to them? Damn right I have Bill McKinney, who was not some random dude just like that cowboy coward was. He was a real actor, but he just really, genuinely feels like he strolled out of those woods and committed this horrible crime. But no, he had a solid career. Solid career? Yeah. Is that your choice? Well, clearly I don't prepare for this part of it. So, I have questions. You're supposed to write to me, and I have written, I answer, I my my question would have been that guy. All right. Favorite scene or shot mind. We've talked about a bunch of them, but mine is the, it is that long shot, the staging of the attack. Like we're talking about that masterful blocking. It's also in the dialog, like you think, okay, they're going to talk to way out of it. You know what? Yeah, we're lost. Yeah. And you think they're going to get their way out of it. You know. What is it that you require. They try everything. They try money, charm, aggression. Nothing works. And it's a brilliant scene. But that's just that whole shot. The staging of it is brilliant. I, I have to agree. I have to agree. Yeah, yeah. It's undeniable. Favorite quote that's it's a little hard, but I think my all time favorite one is the law. The law? What law? Where's the law? Drew? True love. That one. What the hell? You want to go fuck around that for? Because it's there. And then finally, I got to do one quote from our, sadistic rapist. It's not the quote you think you're going to do. It's when they say they're called to entry in the Mount Van Gogh's entry. This where we don't go to answer it. You done man wrong. Dune entry. Terrifying. Favorite quote. All right, I got some, I got some, I got, I've never been lost in my life. I'll have you in the water in an hour. And then, well, we fucked up. But then my favorite quote. The night has fallen and there's nothing we can do about it. Oh, man, I love that he's so drunk. He is so drunk, so well. It's so good that that line touches my soul. You already gave us the by you. Yeah. Good one, I liked it. They had it coming. You did it. You did it. Spoiler. First early, but it works. Oscar nominations. No wins for deliverance. And that three best picture loses to The Godfather John Boorman. Best director loses to Bob Fosse. Cabaret and nominated for best editing. Tom priestly. He lost to cabaret, so I'm glad it got nominated. Those nominations gave this movie a lot of weight. Those are three big nominations. Fucking cabaret movie. Well, you got to see it first and then comment on it. Well, I mean, I'm sure it's fine. I'm sure it's good. You know what? I'm respect Liza minnelli. I'm not an actress. I know you're never Liza minnelli. She won best actress I love Liza. Well, then what the hell? Watch it. She won best actress for it. All right. I'm like, all right. Jennifer Gray's dad won best supporting actor. It's true. Jonathan. Wrong. No. His name is Joel Gray. I believe beating, I don't want to look it up. I see what the J, though. Yeah. Good job. I believe how many the dudes from Godfather were nominated? Pacino was nominated for supporting Caan. Maybe that's it. So he definitely beat them. All right, you want to go to, We talked a lot about the legacy that squeal like a pig is in the zeitgeist. You know exactly what it refers to. Even if you haven't seen the movie, you have a very good idea. Talked about the Pulp Fiction influence. Tarantino used it. Yeah. Dueling banjos. You hear that from anything? And you know what it's from. So, yeah, that's two things that squeal like a pig and then no no no no no no no no. Those two things will live forever. Listen, I'm just going to tell you the classic comedy from 2004 without a paddle does not exist without deliverance. There you go. Absolutely it doesn't. It's even got Burt. It does have Burt. That's right, that's right. I forgot that I've seen that film. I've seen that film once. It's funny. Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it a multitude of times. I bet you have. I bet you have. It's very funny. I mean, what are you watching? Are you going to, Do you want to go first? You want me to go first? I'll go first because I always do carry the weight. Carrying the weight of this. Carrying the weight. So this is a movie that I had to watch for, a scene. Well, I didn't have to watch it. I chose to watch it. But this is a movie that you reckon? Well, they recommend it was in one of your. One of our episodes. You might have recommended it. Well, hell, I'm just going to go out and say it 20 days in Mirror Pool. Who? Fuck me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I gave this movie, a hard, cautious sell. I one of the one of my, What are you watching rant. One of the ones I've gone on was about that movie, but not about the movie. It was, I believe, at the time, a lot of people were. Let's see. Oscars 2023. Believe it or not, folks, I know this is a whole like year and a half ago, but in 2023, people were really upset by about 10s of nudity and Oppenheimer and everyone was talking about this, everyone that was, oh my God, it's the worst thing. And then I mean, meanwhile, this yeah, I go and watch this real movie about a war and in minutes it's happening right now. Yeah. Hap still happening. And in minute six, I'm seeing a doctor trying to resuscitate a child, and he can't. And I'm like, oh, I just saw a kid die. So I wasn't ranting about the movie. The movie knows what it's doing. I'm ranting about like, shut the fuck up about 10s of nudity. Like, there's real shit going on here so that, you know, yeah, I'm glad you watch it. But it wasn't. It wasn't easy, was it? No, it was not. It was. It was definitely by far one of the hardest movies that I've seen. Because it's not even a movie. It's a it's real life. It's a documentary. Yeah. This was taken by a, journalism crew in Ukraine the day that the, war broke out, when Russia invaded Ukraine. And they're trapped. So they, they document as best they can the 20 days that they are there until they, get a Red cross convoy out of, of, Ukraine. And the whole entire time they're bouncing around hospital to building where anywhere that they have an internet connection to where they can, send their video footage to their editor because they're the they're literally they're behind the front lines. Yeah. I think part of the reason I watched it was because I was I was doing a scene where I was playing a, a war, photographer. And so I wanted to get some kind of insight to, you know, that life and, I mean, this was the movie for I actually did watch Night and Fog as well, so we could talk about that right afterwards. Back to back. What a day for me. Yeah. Wow. Jesus Christ, I don't want to take it too, too much of a political conversation because we don't need to necessarily do that. But, I made a decision for myself a few months ago where I've never really been to my own admittance, very politically informed person. But, I wanted to change that. I wanted to become, politically informed. How's that going for you? How's the political world out there, Nick? Tell us all you want, my man. We we're in an interesting time. Oh, he's very interesting. It's an unprecedented times. I've heard that phrase a few times. Yes, yes, I'll use it for the actual word and the definition for what it is. And that's because you taught me. It is incredible. We are living in incredible times. You cannot believe the shit we are living in. It's wild. But, and so seeing this movie, it it really is. I really have to say it is vital viewing because, so much is just kept away from us in terms of what's going on in the world. So much of it is spun so much, but it's not even that. It's the fact that this is just a reality for so much of our history and so much of a part and parts of the world that it's still happening. I mean, to see something where they don't try and do anything other than to show what's happening. We can't forget this. Like, that's the thing. So, I, I very much appreciated the movie. I do recommend it. It's not easy. The only place you can really get it is, anywhere on the, streaming platform where you can have a library card. So it's available on Kanopy, it's, available on hoopla, but that seems to be the only place you can get it. You could probably rent it. Yeah, I watch it for free at around Oscar time because it won the Oscar for Best documentary. And at that point, I think I don't want to talk out of turn. It may have even been on PBS because, you know, PBS will go hardcore sometimes they'll like I on there. Oh yeah. And I went and had a, it had a warning before, like a trigger warning. This is not going to be easy, but. Yeah. So, hey, I'm really glad you watch it. Yeah. You, you asked me for some movies or documentaries feature great despair. So I went right to a few Holocaust documentaries. And then 20 days in Merrillville. Yeah. What'd you think? A night in Fargo. A real quick truth. That was. There's, there there's a couple of images in night and fog that, I mean, similar to 20 Days in Miracle. There's things in these things, the these, these movies that you don't unsee and, and night and night in fog. I mean, God, this is going to sound so messed up to say there's just so many dead bodies that, You can't believe it. It. You just don't think of it as being real. And then when you are actually confronted with the visual image of no, this is what a pile of bodies looks like when it's being dumped into a grave. Thanks for joining us for joining us. And what are you watching podcast. There's I just, I mean, I don't even know what you can say. It's, it's just horrific. It's just horrific. Yeah. That that we that we have that that capability to do that to ourselves. Yeah. It's I've again cautiously, it's not even like a recommendation just saying, hey, this thing exists. It was important when it was released. It came out just a few years after the Holocaust. It's it. Yeah. Go watch it, but watch it with caution. But. Wow. Yeah. If the of the two of them, like, I can understand. Like why it's similar for the 20 days and Meeropol like, that's why. Or, I'm sorry if I'm saying that wrong. Meeropol like. Because that's happening right now and it's and it's and it's, it's important viewing for right now. I can understand when Night and Fog came out, how important it was to see that. Then, you know, we talked about like, how, Montgomery Clift like his breakout movie. What, with the title, The Search. The search. Yeah. You know, that move, that movie like that, there was parts of that that were still happening at that time. And yet that movie does not posit any kind of that imagery, but the mere fact that they were referencing, oh, this the Holocaust. This is currently still happening, and now we're making a movie about it. Or that has to do with something about it. These timely things are important. So, I can only imagine audiences seeing that and fog then, and maybe not knowing exactly what was happening exactly to that degree, because you see that and it's like, what the Oh, my God, the guy with his eyes open. Do you remember that? I do, I can't really forget anything from that. It's. Yeah, it's seared into my brain. I mean, I own it, I've only seen it like 2 or 3 times. It was just like there. Yeah, times I've seen it about a baker's dozen. No, because I took out the most memorable college course I ever took was history, the documentary, which I've talked about a lot on this part. And I I'll never forget that. It just ate my mind was, blown from all the different stuff, but that was one that we watching it. And actually another course that I took in college about film is where my recommendation comes from. So we can, you know, move on from the Holocaust and the current war in Ukraine and talk about World War Two, Pacific theater. WW2 WW two this film is called hell in the Pacific, directed by John Boorman, released in 1968. I think you're going to love this set up for this movie. Let me sell it to you. The movie stars two people. There are no extras. The movie stars Lee Marvin and the great Toshiro Mifune, who is Curacao, was main guy. He was in a lot of his movies. They're the only two actors in the film. It is set during World War Two in the on a, remote island that an American pilot and a Japanese naval officer are stranded on. Lee Marvin doesn't speak Japanese and Mifune he does not speak English, and they are enemies in war, but they need each other to survive. There is very little dialog because they don't understand each other, so that's what the movie's about is how do people communicate and work together when you are on opposite sides of war and you don't know how to speak to each other? So it it is, it's fascinating. It's a really good movie. The ending was kind of controversial because the original ending is absolutely perfect. I'm not going to spoil what it is here. Absolutely perfect. Then an American studio added a terrible alternate ending that I was really bummed to find out is considered the actual ending on my DVD, and the quote unquote alternate ending is the real ending, so that that is just a bummer. One is very, very good and perfectly in line with the movie. That's what Boorman wanted. One of them sucks, so you can imagine that the Americanized version sucks. But really cool movie, I own it. It's just, you know, two guys on an island, how do they how do they get along? And it's it's two fascinating actors. So Lee Marvin works really well with Boorman. So I just want to throw out another, you know, Boorman I did watch Zardoz for the first time for this. That was a fucking film. Wow. Red Speedo, Sean Connery, I mean, Jesus Christ, there's. I don't even know there were Eternals who can't die. Brutal. Who can die? It's very weird. Very fucking weird. This is like eugenics. There's a lot of zany sex stuff. There's the Wizard of Oz, get it? Zardoz Wizard of Oz. Connery's character's name is Zed. Roger Avery's favorite filmmaker is John Boorman. Roger Avery is responsible for the gold watch sequence in Pulp Fiction Z. It's all this shit is connected. There's some Wally and Zardoz just all the apathetic people who are all like, lazy. That movie was fucking crazy. Boorman admitted he was on drugs the whole time he made it. I mean, yeah, no shit. You. Know? Shit. God, it was wild, man. I put it on and I was like, I'm not. I'm not nearly as high as I need to be for this. I got to pause this and I'll come back to it. Then I need to fucking be in a different ways, different state of mind. For this. You need to be really high, folks. Zardoz. Yeah, you just need to be zonked. Like you just need, oh my God. So yeah, all the imagery. Wow. That's it. Deliverance. We did it. What a good conversation. We talked about a lot of serious topics today. Obviously. You know I'm not we do mess around on the pod a lot. But I hope people understand and we're genuine and sincere and we're not making light of any of the heavy stuff we talked about. But I do like that we have created a space to talk about this stuff, because we talked about the sexual assault and deliverance for like 35 minutes. And, you know, it's important because it's it's a it's a really famous scene and deserve to be known for why it's good, not just a silly throwaway line. That's all I'll say. Thanks, everyone. Let us know what you think about Boorman. Deliverance, Point Blank, hell in the Pacific, hell Night and Fog. Let us know on X Instagram, Letterboxd, that white underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at WRI w Underscore podcast. Brush up on your 1996 flicks because next time we are ranking our favorite films of 1996. There's a lot of prestigious dead serious, emotional dramas that came out that year, and almost none of them are on my list. Going to be a lot of fun. Stay tuned. Man has fallen and there's nothing we can do.