150: Babygirl (2024) | The Brutalist (2024)

Alex discusses the passing of David Lynch, before praising Halina Reijn's “Babygirl,” and listing Nicole Kidman’s best performances. Later, Alex invites friend-of-the-pod Dan on to trash Brady Corbet’s “The Brutalist.”
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Transcript

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Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withrow and I'm flying solo for now. I'm going to bring Dan on later for, an interesting time, but we're going to do a bit of a mixed bag episode today. We're going to talk about some recent events. None of which are fun. And then I'm going to gush about a new film, and then things are going to get dark. Things are going to change. Boy. But first, on January 20th, 1946, a boy named David Keith Lynch was born in Missoula, Montana. That boy quickly became an artist of surreal and renowned work. He directed ten feature films, all of which will be talked about forever. He created one of the most iconic shows in television history is Twin Peaks, the king of the obsessive TV fan of creating all this law that people still talk about. It may have been the first. It may still be the most significant. I'm rewatching it now in the beginning of season two. Rivals anything I've seen on TV since. I'm not kidding. His movies were nominated for Oscars. They won awards, but most importantly, they're going to live on in the consciousness of anyone who sees them. And some of those people like myself, like Nick, like Dan, like a friend. Some of these people are going to indoctrinate others into the world of Lynch, and not everyone's going to be into it, and that's okay. Lynch died on January 15th, 2025, just five days shy of his 79th birthday. What more can I say? We did five hours of pods on him recently. Episode 142 is our lynch pod. Episode 144 was our Twin Peaks pod, where I talked about that series with Dan, and we brought on Nick and Dan's friend Frim at the end of that episode, who took Lynch's masterclass, met David Lynch a few times, got to talk with him. He gave us some great insights into Lynch's world. The news of his passing was sudden. The tributes have been endless and what collaborators are saying about him. It's just so touching. It's it's someone that you never really heard anyone say a bad word about. Sure. Robert Loggia chewed him out in a waiting room when he didn't get the part of Frank Booth, or wasn't even allowed to audition for Frank Booth, but he remembered that chewing out Lynch did, and then hired him in Lost Highway so that he could chew out a tailgater. No one ever said a bad word about him. Not really. Not that I've ever caught wind of. The tributes can be something lengthy, like Kyle MacLachlan posted, which is very kind or can be something nice and short, such as happy birthday tidbit. I will love you and miss you every day for the rest of my life, which Laura Dern posted on his birthday just one day ago from this recording. Lynch was a longtime resident of Los Angeles, a town that I love, a town that the co-host of this podcast Nick lives in and a town that is having a very difficult time right now with fires destroying sections of the city, I. It's difficult to talk about. It's difficult to hear about. Everyone that we've had on on this podcast is fine. Everyone's safe. Nick did have to evacuate to Dan's apartment. Friend of the pod, Mickey is okay as well. We got in touch with her. She's safe, but everyone's affected. Everyone is affected. Everyone has a friend or loved one who's affected. And it's just. It's just. Hell. I'm actually going out there tomorrow to see them, to see Nick and Dan and I. Yeah. We'll see, we'll see. But but our thoughts are with everyone there. Just felt weird not to say something since one half of this pod is based in LA and that is the city Nick and I met in, so it'll always have a special place in both of our hearts. Okay, now no natural transition here, so I'll just go right on. Okay. There's a movie that I saw a few weeks ago that I just haven't been able to. I haven't found a way to talk about it on the pod, and I liked it so much. I don't want everyone to hear me talking about it for the first time on our top ten of 2024 pod, which we're going to record at the very end of January, we're giving giving ourselves a little more time to see everything. That's when we're going to record it. But I didn't want everyone to hear me gush about Baby Girl for the first time in that episode. So I wanted to dedicate at least some of this episode to an ecstatic review of this new film starring Nicole Kidman, written and directed by Halina Raine. I hope I'm saying that right, she did bodies, bodies, bodies a few years ago, which was a funky, funny kind of horror movie. Her other directed feature is this film, instinct from 2019 that I have not seen. It doesn't appear to be available legally anywhere, so I haven't seen that. But she's been an actor for a long time. She was in Paul Verhoeven's Black book Valkyrie with Tom cruise. She's been on TV, done a ton of theater. So baby girl, this movie, I love this thing. I've seen this thing three times in the theater, I love this. I've been recommending it to people, to select people. Everyone who has seen it has liked it. So I'm I'm very happy to recommend this and I didn't expect it. So this is a late Christmas release in 2024 starring Nicole Kidman. I wanted to see it, so I didn't watch the trailer. And from what I gathered and what I had heard, I'm thinking 50 Shades of Gray. I'm thinking something, something like that. But then early reports came out and I'm like, oh, okay, let's see. This sounds like it might be edging on the erotic thriller. So I'm like, all right, let's see. Let's go see what this is about. Here's the set up. I'm not going to spoil Baby Girl at all. In the next film I'm going to talk about. We're going to spoil Baby Girl. No spoilers. Okay. Nicole Kidman's this, you know, hot shit CEO in Manhattan, and she's married to Antonio Banderas, and everything is all right. It seems from the opening scene that they're, getting along okay. And then a new intern starts at her company, played by Harris Dickinson. He was the. He was the male lead in Triangle of Sadness. I love this guy. I know he's been in other stuff, I just have. I haven't seen that much that he's been in. Oh he's so good. So he plays this intern. And what develops is not Nicole Kidman's character getting her groove back. The movie is exploring. What if this woman never found her groove to begin with? Like, ever. So. And it's weird to be talking about this film alone to believe me. So one part of the movie, one thing that it's playing with is this sexual discovery, which is not a 50 Shades of Gray thing. And it's not that. It is not that black and white. It is not that dumb sub. It's not it's not that simple. It's much more nuanced, and it's much more about them discovering these different facets of themselves for the first time. And in that discovery, you're seeing two people be fully vulnerable, fully emotional, fully just with each other. And sometimes that has to do with sex. But I, I can't say the movie has an emphasis, like there's no sex scene that, you know, it's not like an erotic thriller where there's this 4 or 5 minute long sex scene that's kind of over. There's nothing like that. Like it's quick. It's, you know, fun and upbeat. It's there's nothing dark and serious when they're discovering all this stuff. But it in this discovery, it doesn't come naturally. So there's some awkwardness to it that I mean, okay, in one part, when they first meet, they're in like, you know, this dingy hotel, I mean, when they first meet to get real, you know what I mean? They're in this dingy hotel, and he gets down and says, okay, like, get down on the floor and crawl, and that's it. That's not the kind of movie I want to watch. Like, I don't want to be seeing that kind of movie I want to watch is where the actor who says that the character says that immediately breaks character and starts laughing and just goes, is that like, is that what you want? Like, I don't know what this is like. That scene is in the trailer of Baby Girl. I didn't see the trailer before that movie, but my point is, this is not something that he has a lot of experience with, that the Dickinson character at all. And it's something that Nicole Kidman character has no experience with. And so watching that discovery was, I don't know, it's not something you really see in movies nowadays. It's kind of what Nick and I talk about a lot. The R-rated in movie for adults, a Nora is another one of these two. We're not saying it's like an adult film, but it's made for adults. That's what it's for. I also want to say Sophia Wilde, who was in Talk to Me, the lead in that horror film Talk to Me. She plays Nicole Kidman's executive assistant. She's fantastic in this fantastic. I was mesmerized by her. Everyone is good. It's not just the Nicole Kidman Show, but I do love Nicole Kidman. And then the other dynamic of the film is that she's the CEO and she's fooling around with an intern, so that comes at play two. There's some office stuff involved that is definitely a part of the film. So it's her self-discovery and then there's just an opening knowledge of this is not okay for me. You know, corporate malfeasance from a corporate standard at all. They made the movie for $20 million. It's made over 31 million so far. Those are great numbers for a movie like this. I hope Nicole gets nominated. I that would be the only nomination I could see would be that stray acting nominee, but it would be great acknowledgment from the Academy to do that. It has such a good soundtrack you get to. I don't even want to spoil what the songs are, but Robyn in excess, George Michael there's way more. There's a rave at one point, like it's awesome. It's just fun. It's a fun movie. It's two hours, I loved it, it will absolutely be in my top ten of 2024. Again, I wanted to mention it. Before we get to that episode. Nick still needs to see this. He wants to. He's going to. Before we record that episode, but God, I really liked it, I really did. And then, of course, it gets you to think about Nicole Kidman, her best roles because we both love her. Nick and I both love her, and she's done a bit of everything on her IMDb. She has 100 acting credits on there, 100. That, of course, combines TV and movies, but that's crazy. I didn't know it was 100 and I haven't seen. She's done a lot of shows. I haven't seen all of her shows. I saw the season of Big Little Lies she was in that was intense and she was really good in. It's like she's never stopped going for it and I don't mean in. She's never stopped being as raw as possible in any form. Some of her arguments or the role is she can be like one of my favorite roles from her is Rabbit Hole, which I think God, Jesus that that would be like if I was ranking her roles. I guess I'd put that at fifth. I'd split it with another movie. But I mean, she's just so like a role in that. The raw grief of having lost a child. It's that movie's rated PG 13, like there's nothing. So what I mean, role. I don't just mean sexually. It's not what I mean at all. Like, I guess tied for the fifth spot because I was trying to come up with five. I was and I couldn't. So then I went, all right, fine, I'll do Mount Rushmore, and then I'll have two tied for five. So my two tied for five were Rabbit Hole and Dogville. Dogville is a tough fucking movie. That is Lars von Trier, and it is challenging in every way. It's three hours long, the whole damn thing takes place on a soundstage, and instead of like there being a fence, there's chalk that says fence. And then someone will pretend to move, you know, open the fence door and there'll be a sound effect. So it's that thing, whatever we call that. But if you stick with it for all three hours, it is, it's a punishing three hours. It's not easy because in addition to how they made it, how they shot it, the material is, terrible in typical Lars von Trier fashion. But Nicole Kidman is great as grace in this, believe it or not. Now, do I rank the Mount Rushmore ones? Is it more fun that way? Do I just list them chronologically? All right, I'll try to rank them in real time. Number four birth. Whoa. That's a weird movie. That's a really funky movie. Jonathan Glazer. It's the movie between Sexy Beast and Under the Skin. It used to never be available to stream on any of the services. I think it is. Now go try to find that if you haven't seen it. It's weird, but there's a again, a very odd balance that she is playing in that movie that it's like only she can do. I don't know, it's this ranking isn't possible. I don't know where the hell. Okay. Number three, I mean, this is so. All right. I'll do I'll say to die for like a I'm being a little crazy with my rankings here. So number three to die for. I mean, that's not crazy to put it there. What's crazy is that I'm bumping it out of the top two. Suzanne Stone, this thing. If you have not seen Gus Van Sant's To Die For or you haven't watched it in a while, this is a brilliant, absolutely biting satire on fame. On. Oh my God, just please go watch it. It's so good. And I mean also like a great supporting cast. Matt Dillon, Casey Affleck, Joaquin Phoenix, Dan, Dan, Nadiya, Illeana Douglas, you will not forget Illeana Douglas and I promise to die for is great. So I guess I'll put that third number two, I guess would be I don't know, I've always said my my favorite refers is Eyes Wide Shut. So that's what I would be put at. Number one, Alex Hartford I got to see that twice on the big screen in 2024. I love that. I know that movie isn't for everyone and that performance isn't for everyone, but she is like that argument scene. She is like a feral animal in a cage because she can't move out of the confines of that little corner of the bedroom, but oh my god, that in that scene is so fun to watch with a crowd. I never watch it, people just laughing at her. I mean, whatever the hell you call it. So I love that. And I'm not going to say baby girl's the best thing she's ever done, but it would definitely be. And I don't want to put it as number one. So it would definitely be my number two right now. Her name is Romi in the film. Yeah, it's a role performance. It is a role in every way. And I so enjoyed it. And her chemistry with Antonio Banderas is great. She has two daughters in the movie. She her chemistry is great with them. It's just so yes, baby girl. My highest recommendation from me. I loved it. I know it's still in a few theaters, but when it comes out on streaming, please see it. Whether there are any Oscar nominations or not. And they're very well may not be, but I mean, it's Nicole Kidman, like, come on, nominate Nicole. And those are just my five whatever six favorite movies of hers. A performance is rather killing of the Sacred Deer. I love her in that destroy year. Has anyone seen this movie? No one talks about it from 2018 where she's a cop. Jesus Christ, you can't even recognize her in it. She's oh man, that is a roar. Roar, roar movie. Tatiana maslany is also in it. She's like a psycho. I mean, I'm not even talking about, like, the others. Moulin Rouge, the hours, which she won her Oscar for. There are people who could very well say Moulin Rouge is absolutely their favorite performance. From her love, Nicole Kidman. Love baby girl, love everything. David Lynch did. There's been a lot of love on the part so far. I just love all the love that's going on. There's a new film out right now called The Brutalist and it is getting a lot of attention. It is written and directed by Brady Courbet. He co-wrote the film with his wife, Mona of Fast Fold. I hope I'm saying that correctly. I have known Brady Core Baz, an actor, for a while. He was in 13 by Catherine Hardwicke. That's an intense movie. Mysterious skin with Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Wow, that thing's wild. 24. The TV show 24. He was in season five and six he was in. This is where I first really became known of him was the US version of Michael Haneke's Funny Games, in which he plays one of the psychos alongside Michael Pitt and movies nuts. Go check that out. And then he turned to a lot of indie movies Martha marcy May. Marlene, melancholy, others, Lars von Trier again, Simon Killer is actually really good and Simon Killer. And then it's 2014. Brady Corby's 2014 as an actor is insane. Listen, all this force majeure, there. The original Clouds of Sils Maria Eden by Mia Hanson love great film, While we're Young, Escobar, Paradise Lost with Benicio del Toro and the HBO mini series Olive Kitteridge, which is fantastic with Frances McDormand. So that's that's wild. That's his 2014. And then he stops. He stops acting, and he begins directing. His first is a film called The Childhood of a leader, which he co-wrote with his wife. That was that came out in 2015. I have never seen it. It's a two hour movie about the childhood of a post-World War One leader. I don't it's not that I don't want to see it, just haven't had time to. I had actually never heard about it until this brutalist press run. His second film, Vox Lux from 2018, co-written again with his wife. This is a two hour movie about, oh God, what is it about some how some extremely traumatic events helped shape Natalie Portman's character into a global pop star? It is an art film. Nick and I praised it on the pod before, but that brings us to 2020 for the end of 2024, when he gave us The brutalist, the movies about a Jewish architect from Hungary played by Adrien Brody, who comes to America and tries to fulfill the American dream. The movie features Guy Pearce as Brody's employer, Joe Alwyn as Pearce's son, Felicity Jones as Brody's wife, Alessandro Nivola as his cousin. This movie's three hours and 35 minutes long, it has an overture, a lengthy intermission, two full acts and an epilog. And wow, did I not like it at all. Yeesh! I don't have anything else to say, because I'm going to play something coming up when I invite friend of the pod Dan on that. We have already recorded and that is when things get negative quickly. And before I get to that, the movie right now is actually in the press as of this recording. The movie is in the press for being really taken to task for its use of AI for in two areas. It sounds like they used AI in Brody and Jones's voices to make their Hungarian accents more authentic, and they did sound real as far as my ears could tell. And the second use of AI were in architecture drawings that are featured in the film. Does this matter? Does this affect Adrien Brody chances of winning the Best Actor Oscar? I don't know, do I care? I don't know, I'm. I don't know that this is going to be a larger discussion. I mean, their accent sounded flawless. Does that take away from their performance? I guess not. Do I care if there are AI generated architecture drawings like no, should I? I don't know yet. My issue with this movie goes so far beyond tweaking an accent or, you know, enhancing some blueprints or something. There are a few things in movies that I take seriously like yes, a movie is just a movie, but I hold every movie to certain standards when it comes to certain things. And I thought the brutalist just wrecked absolute havoc on those things and handled them in the worst ways possible. Yeah, it's it's not for me. It is not a movie for me in any way. It's not something I'm recommending to anyone. I'm thinking it will get a handful of nominations, if not a lot. I don't know about double digits, but it could get up there and nominations we're going to see real soon. But wins? I don't think so, I really don't. The Golden Globes jumped the gun. There's like 60 people now who vote on those things. They're all, you know, they're foreign journalists. They usually they usually give the edge to whatever is buzziest. But that doesn't. They're not a predictor for what wins Oscars. Dan and I talk about all of this. After Dan saw it, he called me. So that is how the conversation that's the conversation you're going to hear is my voice. But then his phone voice and we are going to spoil the entire movie, and we're going to do that very, very early because we're going to get into what I don't like about the movie very early, and so is he. So I tried to start civilly, and then I just go and I go off and I, I've done a few takedowns on this pod, but nothing like this. Nothing like this. I didn't even know if I was going to use all of it, but here it all is, you know, enjoy, enjoy. I'd rather people listen to this than go waste their time for 3.5 hours. Plus with driving parking. God. Well, I'm going to bring Dan on and we are going to completely trash the brutalist. So if you don't want to have anything spoiled about this movie that I don't care about being spoiled, quite frankly. Then turn off the pod now. Otherwise, here we go. Jesus. All right. Dan's here. Friend of the pod. Dan's here talking about the brutalist. I've set up what it's about and my initial thoughts on it, but I haven't, you know, I got to see it with a buddy. So we talked about it after. But you saw it today after me. And I would love to know what you thought I did. I was on it because you, I, you know me. I don't see every movie like you do. And I don't know what compels me to see certain movies. Yeah, I don't know why I felt slightly unkindness. You could brutalist, I think because I really wanted to talk to you about a movie that I don't usually see. I had a I will say one thing. I'm very glad there was an intermission. Yeah. Yeah, it really added to the experience of spacing it out. Overall, I liked it. Up until a certain point of the movie, we're still probably totally fine. We're spoiling so you can say whatever. Oh, until the director tried to pull you reversible. Jesus fucking Christ. And, Yeah. And and then it just it just got. I mean, yeah, when Guy Pearce assaulted Adrien Brody in an alley, I guess, or a tunnel something. It was the marble tunnel where they're, like, mining for the marble in Italy and all that shit. Yeah, yeah, I was, I was, I was enjoying the movie. I shouldn't do that after that. It just, it just the movie. Never. I never felt the same after that scene, which I guess is what he wanted. And he got it because, you know, after that moment, Adrien Brody, character was not the same. Yeah. And the rest of the movie? Rightfully so. Yeah. So this is where and I will start by saying that and this is a true statement. Like I did not dislike my time watching this movie. I didn't know where we talked about this on a megalopolis pod. Like we're giving our goodwill to it because, like, we're here, we bought the ticket. We're saying, you got my ass in a seat. So, okay, I'm going to go along with you. I'm not going to sit here and scoff. So even when that scene happened, I said to me or I thought to myself, okay, okay, this has nothing to do with anything. This has not been suggested at all. If the intention here is to literally show that Guy Pearce is fucking over Adrien Brody like you already made that clear financially for three hours. So now you're just quadrupling down and doing this. And I was with it, though. I'm like, let's see what the for lack of a better term narrative payoff is of this because obviously it is a it a sexual assault in a film is a much bigger deal than a murder. No one would have been a like, it wouldn't even be anything to talk about if Guy Pearce just went and shot him in the fucking head because he was drunk. I mean, it's like the great Laszlo Toth died, like in mining for marble. Marble fell on his head. Whatever it was, that's not a big deal we're talking about for sodomy. Okay. And then the resolution was nothing. There was no emotional resolution. They had force feed Felicity Jones a terrible monologue. It has nothing to do. Guy Pearce just leaves. We never see him again. We never see him interact with Adrien Brody. You know, he exits the movie. So that, in effect, had nothing to do with anything. And because of that, people, I want everyone to hear me. I did not hate my time watching this movie, but I'm. I'm just saying it here. I fucking hated this movie. I hated it for that. That that's the only ammunition I need against it is this baffling sexual assault that comes out of fucking nowhere. And it's just this, narrative like punchline to your 3.5 hour movie. I absolutely and wholeheartedly resent the movie for this, and any movie that does this. This is why. And then I promise, my rant is almost done. You get on this podcast. For years I have been praising the virtues of gas, far and away an extremely challenging director. And when I put irreversible as my fifth favorite movie of this century so far, I'm not doing it to be a sadist. I'm not doing it to, like, trick you into watching it. I'm doing it because that's a movie about a very specific thing. That is a horrible thing. And I hate even talking about this shit, but it handles it accurately and it is a punishing experience. But at least everything has intention. Very little of the brutalist, all of it, let alone that scene had intention. So we can start there. But there and end there now. No, I, I, I assumed he was going to catch Brody to shooting up heroin. I didn't expect it to go there because I'm like, you know, even as soon as he started unbuckling his belt, I'm like, wait, this is this is going in a path I didn't expect. I thought he was going to console him and just tell him like, oh, I'm like, oh, he knows he does drugs. He has some sort of dirt on him. No, he said he's going to quadruple down and you just go even farther into it and people like one of the reasons why we don't bring this stuff up a lot on the podcast, these type of scenes is like, I'm not trying to be crass here, but like, okay, yes, I agree, you hear the but but the belt buckle. He like it happens. There's no I'm just watching it and I'm like, so are these guy is Adrien Brody so drunk he literally can't move or he can't say the word no because he's, like, writhing on top. He's like, writhing in pain. But I'm like, okay. And then the whole time, Guy Pearce is whispering like, you're nothing. You're lady of the night. And I went, you've already fired this guy three fucking times over like a decade. You have fucked him. You fucked him financially. He had to move cities. You fucked him. Why are you doing this? I'm not talking Guy Pearce. I'm talking no. Brady. Core. Bay, why are you and your wife manufacturing the screenplay where this happens and then there's no payoff to it. It was just there. Oh, my God. There is a lot of, sexual undertones throughout the entire movie. I thought the sexuality in the movie was completely and utterly just dropped the ball on it. There is some sexual stuff, and I didn't think any of those scenes worked out at all at, you know, I mean, it's obvious that Harry, assaulted his niece, the son by the river. I assume that was what happened. Okay, okay. Thank you. Yes. You mean Adrien Brody's niece, right? Yes. Okay. So why not fucking show us that? Why are they showing us getting all, like, uncomfortable? Like, this isn't okay. And he's drunk and messed up, and then they just, like, walk back over the hill together. She doesn't seem like, upset. But again, there's all these assumptions. Adrien Brody tells Felicity Jones about the rape while they're zonked on heroin. But we don't ever see that. We hear from her the next day that he confessed this thing. I'm like, why not fucking show us that scene of a guy, like, desperate with trauma and because he's been abused, and then he confesses to his wife, we can talk about the heroin, too. He's a junkie who never has any payoff whatsoever. No, he just has his buddy. That, the guy that he met with, the son, he. Hey, he's a good arc. He becomes clean. That actually was a good arc. He's like, I'm off that stuff. Like, I don't have this. Yeah, like, no, I'm good. I, I got I think I told you earlier, I assume that Adrien Brody cousin was more into Adrien. It showed more of that painting. Yes. Alexandro Nivola, I love this guy. This is Castor fucking Troy in Face Off. The little twerp brother. I love this guy, I guess. Yes, yes. With his tongue sandwiched. Looks like any other looks in the family that made Emily Mortimer another actor I love. I love this guy. I saw Kraven the Fucking Hunter and thought he was hilarious. And it in this movie, like his characterization, there is a little like weird stuff between him and Brody. Not from Brody, but from him. Like, no, go dance my wife. And he's like being pushy. And then out of fucking nowhere, he's like, fuck you, Brody, you you've ruined my business. And you made a pass at my wife. Get the fuck out! Oh, and hey, audience, you're never going to see this guy again. Like, this is never going to come up again. What the fuck is going on? I got some weird, but I got some weird sexual vibe from him to Brody. So did I, so did I, but then that didn't even pay off, is what I'm saying. And again, a sexual assault in a movie is is farther than a murder. We see people get murdered all the fucking time in movies. It's just not that big of a deal to see someone get, like, shot in the face. It's just not. It might be shocking because we're invested in the movie and the characters, but this and and yeah, of course it's irreversible base. It's in a tunnel and it's all the way back and it's all in one take. And that's another thing. I have a lot of armor against this, but like the movie, as you know, a whole, I'm like, I'm watching it. And at the intermission, my buddy and I were going, so he's he's reaching for there Will Be Blood and the master that that that's what he's reaching for here. And I'm thinking like, do you not want to go like a little farther back in the history of film? And I, you know, I didn't I didn't know anything about this movie before I saw it. I didn't even watch the preview. And so now I've been catching up on all the Q and A's, watch the Golden Globes speeches, and I'm like, the way he is carrying himself. And this is an actor I have loved for years and I loved her. I really, really enjoyed his previous film as a director, Vox Lux, and he's just talking like the brutalist is the best thing that has ever been given to cinema. And I'm like, I don't even know if this dude is like seeing Lawrence of Arabia and I'm dead serious. He's talking like cinema started when he started acting and I'm like, dude, there's a whole like a whole fucking world of film out here that I don't. So yeah, but the whole film carried with it this air of pretentiousness that I just couldn't again, did not dislike my time watching it. But when it got to the end and to me, we went nowhere, I just went, that was you. You just wasted 5.5 hours. Five and half felt like 3.5 hours of my life. It's, I mean, I like I said, I think I told you yesterday as well, it's like some of the shots feel like a college student would have done them. It was so funny you said that. That is that exact thing. My friend said to me, who's the cinematographer? He's like, some of it was something. Some looked like that was just film school shit. I again, like you said, I personally I enjoyed my time in it, but after the tunnel scene, I kind of checked out a bit. I wasn't sure how to feel, which I guess, you know, a mission accomplished because I want to feel things in film. So the rest and then it just kind of I never I guess I didn't again enjoy the film after that scene, which is I think that's what was intended personally. And then the epilog just, oh my God, I didn't I like it, I like, I like, I like Adrien Brody slowly slipping into madness after the tunnel scene. I personally like his. I was I took a crash and then for like the Felicity Jones monologue, I don't understand the significance of never, ever finding Guy Pearce with the amount of manpower for that search. Like quick turnaround time. I don't think you get that far personally. And then the epilog kind of threw me out. And then the the positive, upbeat exit song. So that was that whole epilog was nuts, was weird. I, I just like, hated it. I mean, we're we're cruising along. They're looking for Guy Pearce in the end of act two. I also want to say that about 20 to 30 minutes into this movie, I called the last shot of act two. I went this is clearly going to be this cross. Like they've been saying it so much. It's going to be we haven't seen it. Right. We haven't seen it's going to be this, you know. And then it was and then boom, we just cut to this epilog and I'm like, okay. And then his now granddaughter is giving some speech like at an event. Poor Adrien Brody is just had a stroke. He's nonverbal, he's slumped over. He looks like he's about to die. Yeah. And and then they're giving some speech about, like, how he survived the Holocaust and this influence his art. None of that is ever said clearly in the 3.5 hours we've just watched, they don't they're very, very tiptoeing around it and all. And then I get what he's doing. This is what I'm talking about, about the pretention in this epilog. Most of the epilog is featured via VHS cassette footage, so he wants it to look like someone was, like, in charge of cutting together this reel for this architect. And they're using really lame editing transitions like triangle swipes and all this stuff. And it feels it feels like it feels like a company. Exactly. Intro video. Exactly. But why? Brady core? Are you making me fucking watch this at the end of your 3.5 hour epic, I shot it in VistaVision. I shouted on 70 millimeter. I shouted at 31 days, I shot it for 10 million. Like whenever they're they rely on this much technique talk and the press and how hard it was to make my movie. I'm like, put it on the screen, then show it to me. And this epilog was it was just laughing at me. And then ending with that song. The first thing I said, I looked at my friend and I went, what the fuck does he want us to be walking away with? With this song? Like what? What is the what? What was the point of that movie? I also I really didn't enjoy how like they, they, they the last part on the film was it's not the journey to the destination, which is, you know, I hear I see that song many times on internet means and just, you know, good words of wisdom kind of thing. Right. And I thought that was very cliche. After 3.5 hours. Exactly. The profound big message of his movie is that it's not the journey, it's the destination, which is the journey. And when he made it, he felt, you know, accomplished. Right? I've seen that quote like on the wall at my dentist's office. Like, what the what? This you made me sit through all of this for that cheap of a platitude, like the whole thing. So, so again, it was not a miserable experience. While I was watching it because I really thought he was going to go somewhere. I really thought it was going to land somehow, and I just thought he fucked it all up. And I think it's, just a hilarious misfire. When they would do Wives of, like, Philadelphia in New York City. Those were modern day shots. They were throwing me off. They they it looked like that. They were just like on the street, pointing up at the buildings. And I'm like, this. It just looks like modern day. But it felt very modern day. And I was I don't know if that was the they wanted that to feel that way because I guess, you know, you don't need I assume it would be a cityscape from that time period. Yeah. Some of the shots were, well, yeah, he's doing a thing like when occasionally. I mean Vox Lux does this too, but Vox Lux is like an hour in 50 minutes. And I mean, the core narrative is an hour and 35 minutes, and then it has kind of a long, coda, but it does the thing where it's like setting up acts and it, it calls to act something, and it says how long they're going to be, like the time period, you know, whatever 2000 and 2001, whatever it's going to be. And, and it'll have, like Willem Dafoe narrating what Stockholm is. And I think it's kind of amusing because this movie is only going to use up 115 minutes of my time. But then in the brutalist, he's doing it. There's like somewhat like a news radio guy coming on, and now we're in like archive news footage and they're describing us. What Pennsylvania is like, this movie explains, was what Pennsylvania is. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? There's archive footage that explains to the audience what heroin is like. Heroin? Like, I don't need this. Like, I've what the fuck? Have you never like movies about heroin? Don't do this. They don't just sit there and, like, cut this. I don't know, man. The whole thing as you and as you can tell, Alex is very passionate about the way he feels at this movie. Jesus Christ. I mean, for, and I but we both agree, though I, I, I get I did enjoy my time. I don't think I hated it as much as you, but it's, you know, it's one of those movies I'll never watch again, but it's like I enjoyed it. And then I got weirdly uncomfortable for the rest of it. And I again, I think that's what the director personally director intended. But I just think the way he went about it is not the way I would have chosen to do it. Okay. Thank you, Felicity Jones I did think Felicity Jones's monologue was not great. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. So when I'm shitting on this movie, the people the first question people are asking me is, is Adrien Brody good? Yes. Is better. This is great. This goes way beyond him. There are a lot of performances in movies that are good, but the movies I love Guy Pearce everyone's good in this movie, right? I didn't well, first kiss I said I didn't care for it was a Harry. Yeah Joel and he's okay. Like. And I, he's okay. He got better because when he fully, when he fully leaned into the terrible person full maniac, I was like, when he's dragging Felicity out, I did like me. I liked him when he was full crazy person when he was trying to fake it and be nice. I was like, I don't like this guy's acting. But yeah, yeah, I agree and like to the. So yeah, Brody's good. The problem is much bigger than him. A lot of people win Oscars for good performances and bad movies. The. Yeah, Guy Pearce is an actor I love forever. I the just the twists and turns of his character, especially where it goes. I didn't buy it all. And then, yeah, I have to be really, really clear about this. I love Felicity Jones. I have loved her since Like Crazy, her second movie. Good. In that movie. I love that movie. That her second movie with that director Drake dorm is a movie called Breathe In, in which she's a young girl who falls in love with Guy Pearce, and they're great movie together. Like, I like that movie, too. Felicity Jones is horribly and laughably miscast in this movie, to the point where I was like, what the fuck is this? I don't think she knows what she's doing. Like it? She I've seen people online saying she should sue over the edit because they're like, you need to sue your agent for taking this role. It I thought she was very miscast. And then it's like, come on, people, this is fucking 2024. When this movie was made, you don't have anything for your female character to do. Your main female character, you give her nothing to do except writhe in pain in a bed because she has. I believe it's osteoporosis. Yeah, that's your process, Brody. Fucking shut her up. Once she overdoses, now she's walking again. So heroin just gets her out of the wheelchair. She's up fucking walking, and. Oh, you know, I never made that. I never realized, okay. Is there a connection? The movie didn't explain it to us, but I don't see the connection. No. No cures osteoporosis. What the fuck? You. Also, we also don't know how much time went by from Herbie Carradine to that conversation in the dinner. I don't know, that's very true. She is, talking about it. I went, oh, you know what? No, it was it was a week. Because implicitly, Joan says, Adrien Brody has been out with the flu, and that Henry's like, oh, that's why we haven't seen him in a week. Okay. It's been it's been a week. Okay? So it's been a week, and she. The only thing you get your female character to do is to deliver a half baked monologue that is based on a completely laughable, nonsensical event, which is the rape like, narratively, that fucking sexual assault is one of the dumbest, most idiotic things I've seen in a movie in ages. And that is what her monologue is about. So you're giving her a monologue that's based on, like, nothing, something. It's ridiculous. Therefore, I don't take her screaming at Guy Pearce seriously. He just gets up from the table. We never see him again. We never hear about him. I don't, but I think we talked about it. I don't think his character would ever have to leave. I feel like he he's rich and powerful enough. Where I hate to say it, he probably would get away with it. Dude, she is a Jewish woman from Hungary. Like the ethos of this movie to me is like, sure, we welcomed you all over here. Statue of Liberty, come on over. But then when you got here, I'm speaking from like the perspective of the Guy Pearce character now. Yeah. When they when they got here, we can hire them to do things for her, for us. But we can't let these people have any sort of power. We can't let them make any sort of money. And if they can get close to it, guess what? We're going to fuck them and then make it clear that we want nothing to do with you. So quite literally go back to wherever the fuck you came from. Yeah, start your life there. That's like the ethos of this movie. And I went, what? Why the fuck did it take you 3.5 hours to get to that? And also, like, you know, Pierce had all the umbrella anyway, so I feel like he would have just, just I the fact that he literally got up and disappeared, I don't understand. I still don't understand why he did that or she was in his house. They could have had her killed and buried in the backyard and no one would have said, shit, I don't, I don't know, I don't know where he went. I don't know why he left the movie. Yeah, neither do the writers and neither does the director. So they didn't tell us they don't have a good conclusion for it, so they didn't make one up for us. How about the second time Guy Pearce cancels the whole project and this is about oh, for the train. Let me get this straight. Like a train. Something blew up. It's the camera's way, way, way, way up in the sky. So we barely see this. And two people were added to the hospital. I assume they didn't die because they would have canceled the project. Well, no. I think he's like two people are going to die or two people did die. So we're canceling my project, so. So they might die. Okay, so I'm watching this. I'm not like the biggest history buff, but I'm watching this movie going, well, like 20 to 40 people. They don't even know 22, 40 people died making the Brooklyn Bridge. Yet the bridge stands like someone died. A crew member died making Motherless Brooklyn an Edward Norton movie that no one has seen. The movie got released. Rust, starring Alec Baldwin, is going to be released. Like what? In what world does this like? Crazy expensive project just get scrapped because of a train accident and then everything literally, you know, pun intended, everything gets derailed and I'm like, you know, we're just starting all over, like, we have nowhere to make these characters go, so we'll just start over, which is he gets Adrien Brody, gets fired, changes his life, and then a few years later, Guy Pearce hires him back. And that happens like 2 or 3 times. It is crazy how how much a movie can fluster you. I'm thinking you you not you generally but it's. And they like you but you're like. But you've said it many times. You like I enjoyed my time in this movie, but one act, like you said, derailed it for you. And it made you hate the entire movie. Yeah, yeah. When when I saw that you were leading us to no catharsis, to nothing profound. Even though you think your movie is very profound, you led us nowhere, in my opinion, emotionally worthwhile. And I would not care if the movie was 90 minutes, I would care a little bit, but not this much. If it was two hours, the fact that you made us all sit here and you were nonstop in the press about how this movie is capital I important. Capital C cinema, 70 millimeter VistaVision, 3.5 hours. They're fucking slamming this down our throats. And it means nothing. It means nothing. This is pretentious. Fucking hogwash. Do not fall for this cheap shit, I really don't. I'm sorry, like I can't. And another thing is, like. And here's the thing, I don't bring this up on the podcast because I don't like talking about this on Mike. I don't like talking about this shit in real life, but I, I take sexual assault in real life extremely seriously and in the movies very, very seriously. And I have taken a lot of movies to task. Not necessarily on Mike, but I've talked a lot of shit about movies that use sexual assault as a narrative punchline. It fucking pisses me off. And I thought, I just thought we were done with this. I thought I didn't know this was still going to be going on, and it's like fucking he watch there Will Be Blood 25 times and went, wow, I want to do that. But instead of oil, let's make it architecture. How do I out epic, there will be blood. What do I do I got it, I got it I'll add a fucking hour to it. Oh my god, oh my god. Yep. I'm going to add an hour to it. But wait a minute. I need like just a little more. What can I do I oh my god wait. I'm going to have Daniel Day-Lewis, but fuck Paul Dano in the bowling alley. Holy shit. I got it, guys. I got, but we're fucking taking it here. Are you ready? Best picture. Are we ready? Cunt! Mia! Fucking break! Man. I hate this shit. I'm done, I'm done. People are going to think I'm like, on one, and but I can't. I'm not. I said after that, everything everywhere. Oscars. I'm not taking it easy on the Oscars anymore. And one of the reasons I'm being so hard on the brutalist is because, you know, Golden Globe, like where the Oscar nominations are in a few days. I really don't think this is going to win anything. I'm sure it gets a bunch of nominations. I think the the masses, the population are going to get a hold of this and be like, no, not everyone. It's still going to be a well-liked movie. I'm going to be one of the few vocal assholes on the side here. But like Best Picture, Best Director. No. And if it does? Oh, yeah. But you be okay. You be okay. If Brady wins, though, Brody's Eric Brody wins. Yeah, yeah. That's fine, I like Brody, I like him. No, I, I Guy Pearce has never been nominated for an Oscar. I love Guy Pearce I love him I don't think this is one of his best characters, but I, I resent that the filmmakers are telling me to take a movie so seriously and that it's so important when ultimately it is not. It just isn't. It is not what you think it is. Oh, so yeah, that's how I, I mean, I really just the more I thought about it and I slept on it and I woke up and I went, no, no, I can't excuse it for this. And then I started watching all of his interviews, my round roundtable stuff, and I'm like, oh my God, you're doing this all in the ways I now like it. Like I just, oh, 99 and why he named the film The Brutalist. Oh, I mean, we could yeah. I mean, act one was kind of a ride for me. I when I tell you audience, I had no idea what this about what this was about. I found out this was, potentially about the Holocaust from a Golden Globes joke, and I was like, oh, okay. So it's about the Holocaust. Like, I had no idea. So I, I, I know, like in my head, I'm not like an architecture nut, but I know what brutalist architecture is. I know that. Oh, I did not know that that's what that title was referring to. I thought he was going to be some like, dude who came to America, some immigrant, and just started like, fucking killing people. I thought they're using brutal, like, literally like, like it was he was going to be like a brutal guy. So I went, oh, this is yet another big swing architecture movie. We didn't get enough of those in 2020 for Megalopolis. Jesus Christ. Like, I don't know, man. The brutalist was a complete and utter gimmick movie to me. A counter that a lot of people have in addition to, well, Adrien Brody. It's good. Is that. Well, it looks great. Yeah, certain shots look great. Certain shots were not composed well at all and didn't have any business being anything. And sometimes I would, like, tilt my head and go, wow, they're blocked. Like really oddly in this. This is okay. This is odd. And, I going back to the dentist office. I was in the dentist like two weeks ago. Was there a little bit early? They have Planet Earth playing on the TV in the waiting room and that's what the good shots of the brutalist looked like. It looked like planet Earth. So you can just put on planet Earth and there's no sexual assault? No. That's true. No. But like you said, I, I think I ended up liking it more than currently. Than you do. Yeah. And if people go read my Letterboxd review, I gave it two stars. I didn't give it, like, half a star and called the biggest piece of shit ever. There are things I liked about it, but I do not think you. I absolutely don't think you've written as good of a movie you as you think you have. I do not think you've directed a movie that is one tenth as good as you think it is, and it upsets me that this is likely going to get a lot of Oscar attention, that people are going to take it, quote unquote, seriously. And I'm like, man, just don't let this be like the only art movie. You see. Like, if you think this is an art film, it's it is, it's trying to be, but it's not a good one. Not to me. It, you know, not to me. Now, now, my cinematographer buddy hated it as well. You are not. It's not one of your favorites of the year. So is seeing it tonight I have not I was he is he really. He is. We try to I try to be good I do, but I texted you both and said it wasn't for me. And then he texted if you follow ups. And then the next morning I was trying to be like, I didn't even want to say anything, but I text when I was like, dude, I slept on it. I hated that movie. And I'm I never use that word and I'm using it. And he was like, Holy shit. So I've just I've been telling him a few things, but it's funny, everyone I'm telling that I hated the movie. It makes people want to see it more. Maybe that maybe that, you know. But I'm like, we shouldn't use that word of mouth for Megalopolis. Honestly, at least a megalopolis like, it's so ridiculous. I think it is like you and I said on that podcast that I, I think a lot of what he did in that was intentional. We still don't know if like, naming the baby Francis was intentional or not. I don't know if if that's a joke, then that's kind of funny, but at least part of that was funny. Even there Will Be Blood is very funny at times. You mean when you think of there Will be blood? You may not think of humor right away, but it's a funny as one goddamn hell of a show. I drink your milkshake like it's it's funny. This movie is not like this. It tries to have a sense of humor. It just I don't know, I don't know. Let me be honest, real, real quick. So when when she. When the grand niece said the journey destination line at the end. And then I think it was that point and I think right after she said it, I think the song kicked in. I think it immediately crash cuts to black credits with the song I, You Not. I was cackling to myself in the theater because of that song specifically. I put my head down in my hands and was just shaking them back and forth, going, oh my God, oh my God! And then my friend is next to me shaking his head, going, that was not for me. And I'm like, yeah, what was up with the like, let's just slip in a little third act sodomy here that's never going to emotionally pay off. What the fuck. Like I don't. And then they walk out of the tunnel in the morning. That. So it was just like, oh, and and I slept in the tunnel together all night. Like, what the fuck? What, you want Guy Pearce to get some sort of comeuppance? It doesn't happen. It doesn't come in and if the message there is. Well, yeah, guys, WASPy rich people don't get comeuppance. I've seen that a million fucking times in the movies. I've seen that so many times. I don't need to see this shit again. Especially when the impetus is a sexual assault. I don't need to see this. We we've done this over and over and over. Have I made myself clear? I don't know, what did you did you do you didn't like it? Okay. My heart of hearts says maybe a good showing of nominations. You know, six, seven, eight NAMs, zero wins. You'd like that. Unless it's Adrien Brody. Are be okay with it. Yeah. I mean, he's he's doing the thing. He's on the on the press. He's just on Marc Maron. He's doing it. And I'm Colman Domingo. Like, no one's seen that fucking movie that. Yeah, watch that completely. I don't know if they're going to rerelease it or what's up. Conclave with Rey finds is he's never won. So he's right there. And then of course, we have to bring in the substance back in the theaters for who are they? I'm glad I she seems like she might be geared up to win it. I feel like love it for her bed, I rewatched it, I rented it for, like, five bucks and rewatch it. Movies? No, you can, you can, you can, you can go see in theaters again. Okay. The substance. Yes. Real quick two hours and 40 minutes. I didn't see it. Okay, I, I won't say anything. Two hours and 20 minutes made by a European female director. There are aspects of that film that are very deliberately pretentious. Gaspar. In a way, will do this to where they're showing their sleight of hand and being like, yeah, this is ridiculous, but I'm telling like a completely over in the case of the substance, a completely over-the-top ridiculous commentary on the way that we, or particularly women in the movie industry treat themselves and how they view themselves, and that movie is taking the piss out of itself. Something like the brutalist is just considering itself, like the most important movie ever made. I have to say, no, it isn't. And for a lot of the reasons like, it may look pretty, but I just didn't like it, so I guess we could. It's enough. I've never talked about a movie like this on the podcast before, ever, so I'm a little nervous. You know, we can we can record it all again. If you want to do a more tamer version, fuck that. People get what they did. The brutalist wasn't. The brutalist was slow at times, but it wasn't tame like three hours and 35 minutes. Goddamn. But everyone in my theaters almost sold out. AFI in Silver Spring, Maryland at Great Theater. Everyone's talking at the intermission. You know, everyone's kind of excited. Where's it going? Where's it going? It was a very dour mood when we left. And maybe that's the intention because obviously we haven't seen, like, you know, the most uplifting film. But I did not hear a lot of, oh my God, that was just so good. I really like Megalopolis. That woman's like it was so good. It was so pure. It was so profound. There was I mean, it's not like I to Mike. I had everyone miked up, but I didn't catch any of that. I will say, I think I bet I can you can agree with one thing about the brutalist that you that you may have liked, and I can tell you, funny enough, I am. I hope they start bringing back intermissions for long movies simply because of what you said. Like people were talking to each other about it in the intermission, which doesn't usually happen in movies because there's no intermission. It's like a watercooler moment, right? Oh, it was really good so far. Like, I kind of like that idea and that concept of like having a break in a long movie and then going outside and talking to people about it and then coming back in. It was actually really cool. Like the experience I'm I'm poking a lot of shit at Mr. Corbett here, but the experience of like, cool. There's an overture at one intermission to Epilog, like, okay, I get it. And the intermission, at least mine. I don't know if the whole thing was, but at some point a 15 minute timer came up. I was like, yeah, so it's G. Yeah. So it like it told you how much time was there? And my friend and I got up, stood in the back of the theater, stretched our legs and literally talked about the first act of the movie and where we thought it was going to go like that constitute like, how do we do it? Yeah, yeah, I agree, it was nice, like killers of the Flower Moon could have had something like that and I wouldn't have been mad. Irish Man could have had one. The Irishman is flawless and the Irishman has no notes. Got a single thing wrong with that al Pacino, just like you could have used an intermission. He forgot a line in that movie. When you watch it, he's like bitching out a bunch of guys at one point and he, like, puts up his hands and he's like, I'm. And you. I mean, he has to lose it. And then he like, he's all worked up that he stops, then he's like. And then he finds it again and says it. It's so funny. But I mean, Scorsese, he includes it like it's a silhouette. Yeah. It was just the best take and it was the best take. I guess. Whatever. So yeah, the brutal is cool. Go, go watch, go enjoy the three hour and 35 minute art movie. Dude, is Nick going to like this? Part of me too, says he's going to ask you. I was going to ask you that. And I was also going to ask if you were going to talk to him about it. Yeah, I'll talk to him about it. I don't know about UN, Mike. I mean, I may as well, but, this is Nick, a Nick, I think like really into like Adrien Brody I do too. Nick will Nick knows my stance on sexual assault in films, and I, I did not suggest that was going to happen at all, but I said, you will know why I didn't like it. This is not a grand, big mystery. You're going to know when you see it that, oh, yeah, this isn't a movie for Alex at all. Like this. It is. It is not. If you're going to introduce something like this, you have to have it. I'm not saying every rapist in every movie has to die or get shot through the chest with an arrow, or fucking stab the bottom. Have some some resolution. Yeah. They don't want to get, like, stabbed in the bottom of a fucking pawnshop in LA to like, make the point. Like, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying something literally leaves. He leaves the movie, he just leaves. He gets up and walks away. And it's not that we never see him again, which we don't. He's never even mentioned again. And like the movie's ten minutes away from ending and I'm quite genuinely scratching my head or cackling or shaking my head. They spend about five minutes looking for him. Exactly, exactly. With the flashlights in the field. And the music is going, like I said, I texted you. I think, like I, I assume they were going to find him in the pool because early in the movie he talks about building the pool and Guy Pearce says, I don't want a pool. I can't swim, right? Which is like a laugh line. And hey, guess what? If that would have come back, it would have been very fitting because they fucking set us up for that. But the movie opens so many doors. I'm like, oh, he's going to. Because like, they're like, they had to go in like get keys to unlock the pool. And I was like, oh, he's definitely in there. He's got in that pool. No. Think that's what I was hoping to see. That made the most sense because it was like you just had a throwaway line about him not being able to swim would have been a great little, like, button or, I guess the Chekhov's gun. Right. But if you Chekhov's gun. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, it's just a little foreshadowing. Sure. Yeah. So yeah. And like, you know, I would have been a fitting end to that man drowning in, like, what, two feet of water? Like, there was literally not that much water in there. I think it would have been a great way to end Guy Pearce's arc, but no, he just it must have because like, he he literally wraps shooting and he doesn't come back. Yeah, I mean, it just you question I don't know if Nick's going to like it. I think he'll run like Adrien Brody and then see because he found this isn't I haven't mentioned on the part we'll be doing our, top ten of 2024 soon. And so he did not like Nozpheratu at all. The new one, Nick and Nick does not like Robert Eggers. I don't think I'm talking out of turn here, but that's one where he texted me and he goes, the cinematography was great. Lily-Rose Depp was great. The production design, the costumes, everything, the music, it's all great. It's great. But I didn't give a shit about the story. I thought the story was hollow and sucked. And I go, yeah, I get it. Like I've. I've seen that story 50 different times. At least I own five different fucking versions of that story. So to me, that did that story justice because it tried something very new. So he came at it with like it was there is nothing to it. And I don't I know people like the brutalist, but I think I know I'm coming down hard on it and I sound like an asshole. I get it, but I think I have like a point of view that makes sense. I don't think I'm talking out of turn here. I think everything I'm saying is you, not everyone, no one has to agree with me on it. But I'm not making this shit up from, like, whole cloth. Like, the movie doesn't give us anything. And it has a wildly unnecessary sexual assault. I am one of those. Like, I won't be seeing it again. I just fine because I'm not going to. I don't want to say this or I don't want to say you watch more along with his monologue movies over and over, more than once, and I do. So, you know, I'm also not a big film person like you, so I don't really repeat movies unless it's like, back to the Future or Gremlins two, but I but, but, yeah, I would, I would rather just pitch to people, go see flow. Oh, perfect. But I was going to ask you to, talk about this real quick. Oh, my God, I love it's funny about flow. What's funny about flow is that it is it is like 85 minutes, no dialog, 85 minutes. Gorgeous animation that they I just found out they made that all in the free use, software blender. Yeah. Did that like free use? There was no deleted scene. So what they had, what they made is in the movie, and this is a movie Dan recommended to me this animated film. It just I think it was a huge surprise that it won the golden. You you were surprised? I was very surprised. You keep recommending me these movies like Robot Dreams, no dialog flow, no dialog. And when you tell me that, I'm like, okay, so right there, that's a gimmick, a no dialog, 85 minute animated film is a gimmick. It's a gimmick. Like a 70 millimeter, 3.5 hour epic about an architect as a gimmick. But this. Yes, flow. I just thought I was, like, mesmerized by it because, you know, it's about a cat basically just trying to, like, survive down a river in a boat, and it comes across other animals. And yeah, the stereotypes of every animal from a golden lab to, what's that thing called that a child? Oh, it's a it's a lemur. And there's a cop. A bark cop, bruh, I, I can't pronounce it wrong. And then some sort of bird. Yeah. And it was just. I thought it was so great. I really, really liked it. I did a lot. And you did. I mean, hey, I, I'm, I'm three for three with you because you have for no dialog film. So it's all robot dreams flow and then hundreds of beavers. Oh my god. That's right. Hundreds of beavers. It's a lot of fun. I've seen that pop up on a few top ten lists of the year and people are loving it. Flow. I now that you can say I think he flows won the Golden Globe. It's a weird dark horse going in. Yes, I believe that, I don't know, I mean, Wild Robot is a much bigger movie, but they might gain something interesting inside out too. So yeah, and I think that I don't have as good of, like an insight, an encyclopedic memory of the animated film Oscars. I do like Best Picture, but I think Inside Out too. Probably one. But if they want to have, like if you want to start separating yourself. I've been yelling at them for years about this. Yeah. Give a movie like Flow the Oscar. There are certain categories that have been doing this for decades. So like visual effects, there's much bigger movies, but they give it to Godzilla minus one. That's awesome. Like make up does this sometimes two. They give it to the much smaller movie. They should do that because flow is a really good movie, and it got someone with a black heart of ice that's myself to be emotional about it. And you and you even said and there's also like, you know, there's like 16 production companies working on this movie. So it's the opening tags were so good. There's so many production company tags. In the beginning I was like, Jesus, and I told you this, I, I, and I know I am an extreme minority who did not like Wild robot like I, I'm the only I'm, which is fine because art is subjective. That that fun thing to say. So yeah, I just it wasn't for me. I tried it, but I also think I wanted another no dialog movie. It is anything but yeah, I mean not going to that movie. Yeah, I mean I didn't, I wouldn't, I just don't see animated movies. I basically see what like when you tell me one is good and then I ask you for a little more and you're like, yeah, there's no dialog. I'm like, all right, all right, that's something. I'll see you guys. But I mean, yes, you didn't like Wild Robot. It's fine, you know. Yeah, I just, I just I'm shocked that I didn't like it, but, you know, it's, Yeah. Everyone does. He flow and it needs and needs support. Go see flow three times in a row. That'll be better spent and take a certain amount of time to clean the brutalist one. Oh, can't do it, man. I can't I can't just fall in line with this pretentious nonsense. Like, I'm. I just can't. And, you know, if people want to condemn me, that's fine. I can name you so many, so many better art movies, so many better movies about the immigrant experience, about surviving the Holocaust, about sexual assault, about heroin addiction. I can oh my God, there are so many more movies that do what the brutalist is trying to do, and they do it better. But yeah, flow is great and you in and you didn't like the brutalist upon reflection. No, it's not for me. It's not. I'm really looking forward to laughing every time I say it. As we talk about the Oscars, like when I'm talking about nominations and stuff, like, there goes that movie. Enjoy it everyone. Enjoy. Well, I'm glad I got you on Mike for this. I know this was your idea. You're like, do you want me to see it? We could talk about it. I would sure, but I'm going to be mean. You're in the extreme minority for the Academy Award winning best picture film. Everything everywhere, all at once. So, yeah, so are you. You don't fucking like you. Me and my bad. I thought it was okay. Never see it again. It was just. But yeah, not a fan of it. I would not see that movie again. We're not talking about that movie unless you want to start talking about that. I don't know. I don't ever want to talk about that movie again. I mean, yes, this is fun. I'm sure I'll get Nick on Mike to. Yeah. Discuss. His thoughts on the brutalist briefly, but if anything, he will get a huge kick out of how much I hate it, which he always does. He's always like, goddamn, you know, because I really don't talk about movies like this a lot. No, like, I don't I don't. And if again, if the brutalist was two, a two hour weird little art movie like Vox Lux, has anyone listen to this scene? Vox Lux? Very few people have, but it's a trippy call. Then I would not box up zero Oscar nominations. If that was the case for the brutalist, I would be much, much kinder to it. But the fact that it's got this huge, important stamp on it, it's this big movie. It's got a lot of Oscar attention. Yeah, I'm going to come down a little harder on it. And that's it's all good. Everything's fine. I just a movie. Yeah, it's just a movie. Just a movie. It's just a movie. Yep, yep, just a movie. I got a few things rolling. Good bye. I was like, going, you know, going, going. I called, Alexandros face off. I called him caster. That's Nicolas Cage, his character. He's Pollux. Troy the dweeb, little Pollux, you know who a memorable character and I don't, man, I don't even know if this is worthy of a correction. The end of the damn epilog is like it's the I. What she does, she does, like, a little. Oh, my God, it's so clever. Little spin on. It's the destination, not the journey. And that's supposed to be like the big, you know, punctuation of the film. Like so. Okay. It's not. It's the journey. It's whatever the hell I don't even care. See, I don't even care. Most importantly, Nicholas Doe still did not like this movie. He thought it was dumb. After he saw it, he called me. I didn't have access to a mic, but he called me and we trash it for about 35 minutes, which is as much time as he had. I'm sure we could have kept going. Yes, I am comfortable saying he did not like it. Every issue that I brought up, he had an issue with as well. So this is not a movie endorsed by this podcast in any shape. We thought it was just dumb and made some idiotic choices like very, very idiotic choices. It didn't follow through at all like nothing happened. I've said enough. Our next episode is going to be the Oscar nominations, which I do like to get up as early as possible. It's not going to happen this time because I'm traveling. They push these nominations. They were supposed to be a few days ago, but because of the fires, it all makes sense. Everything makes sense, but they push them. So now I never thought I was gonna have to do this again. I never thought I was going to be given the glorious opportunity. That's how I put it to do this again, where I will be waking up at 530 in the morning on the 23rd to watch the live announcement of the Oscar nominations. I live on the East Coast, so I now get to do this at 830. But. But I'm going to be on the West Coast coincidentally for that week and weekend. So the Oscar nominations pod is going to be a few days late from us, and that's just going to be okay. But believe you me, we will have thoughts. Go see baby girl, skip the brutalist. Go see Flo. I loved Flo. Flo is such a good movie. What if it wins the animated Oscar? What if it does? Like. Oh, God, it would be so great. It's a really, really good movie. Go see Baby Girl. And then if it's to, like, oh, well, then go watch Flo. That's a weird, weird double feature. Maybe. Don't do that. Thank you for hanging with me through the take down. I do appreciate it. And as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex withrow.com Nicholas Dose Dotcom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at Wide Underscore podcast. Next time it's our live reaction to the 2025 Oscar nominations, which at this point seem pretty open. I do not know who is in the lead to win any of these. Stay tuned.