143: Anora (2024)

Alex and Nick discuss writer/director Sean Baker’s filmography, Mikey Madison, and why the new film, “Anora,” is the best movie of the year.
This episode begins with a spoiler-free review of “Anora," followed by an extended What Are You Watching segment (50:57), before ending with a spoiler-filled discussion on “Anora" (1:07:35).
Follow @WAYW_Podcast on Twitter and Instagram and Letterboxd.
Send us mailbag questions at whatareyouwatchingpodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

0:00

Hey, everyone, real quick announcement before we begin. I know it's been a weird few days for a lot of people. There's a bit of a collective elephant in the room. I refer, of course, to the fact that I had to push the Twin Peaks episode one week. I know, I know, another kind of came out of nowhere. This episode is a little different though. The beginning of the episode is all under a general discussion. No spoilers at all. Then we're going to go to an extended what are You watching segment. We're going to talk about a few new 2024 movies, and then I'm going to play some music and it is spoiler time for a Nora. Fair warning, I'll tee it up a few other times, but the end of this episode we are going to reveal everything about Nora. Okay, here we go. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withrow. I'm joined by my best man, Nick, though. Still. How are you doing there, red rocket? Oh, fuck. I was like, I was going to cut you. I'm just gonna start cutting you off now. I'm just going to be like, don't fuck with me. Don't fuck with me now. That's. Rocket's good. Red rocket. Red fuck. It's great. But I was I was hoping for Igor. I know I yeah, I had Igor, I Taurus because. Oh, Taurus would be funny. Yeah. Yeah, I know, I know. How are you doing there? Oh, man, I am very excited to be here. This is. This is big. This is big. Yeah, this is big. This is something that we we didn't really have planned. We're kind of doing an emergency pod of sorts. We are. That's right. We're recording this episode the evening of Tuesday, November 5th, an important day for America and for this podcast. Because beyond all reason, logic and expectation, a Nora has been elected as our favorite to share our shared favorite film of 2024. So far, so far, so far. Can't believe this happened. We have both seen Sean Baker's new film, A Nora, starring Mikey Madison. It's in theaters now. It first was Catching Waves around May, or even a little before that, because it won the Con Palme d'Or in May. It is the first American film to do so since The Tree of Life. It's a pretty big deal. That's also a pretty big statement when particularly an American film wins that award. We've both been excited for this movie. Very excited. You got to see it first. You've actually seen it twice, which is awesome. You were very, very, very discreet with your feelings about it. And I so appreciate that. As you said, it was a Nora Colon. Yay! And I went, oh thank God. So just immediate first reactions. This is this thing to me is a bit of a miracle. I didn't know we were going to get hit with this, and I loved everything about it. And I can't believe I'm using this word because I try to concert. I try to use it conservatively, I promise. But this is a modern masterpiece to me. I loved it. I fucking love this movie. Yeah, I mean, I can't disagree with any of that. It's a I if we're going to use the masterpiece term, I have to, I have to. It's for so many reasons. It kind of is because it's a masterpiece of our time. Like it's a very, very current movie. Like it feels like today. It feels like the youth of today, and it's just showcased through the lens of a very, very realistic 2024. So for that reason alone, I think it's such a brilliant movie. It's also a masterpiece in romance and and and and fun and joy and it's got everything. It's got fucking everything. Yeah. Things that it doesn't have are, computer graphics, CGI. It doesn't have establishing drone shots, helicopter shots of Brooklyn. This thing lives on the ground, like all of Sean Baker's films do. Shot on gorgeous 35 millimeter film, it costs $6 million to make last year, and our top ten of 2023, which technically came out this year. We both agreed that Oppenheimer was a masterpiece. It's a very, very, very different thing that Dick loved going to see that so many times because he put that $100 million budget to use by like blowing shit up and wow, the Imax experience, something like a Nora is completely different. It's so this is about human emotion. All of his movies are this is not about necessarily spectacle in the way that it may be defined by a blockbuster or by a huge price tag, but this thing is spectacular. This thing was this things going on. I didn't really know what it was about. I'll describe what it's about, but going into it, like, I didn't really know. We've had a few stills come out of Mikey Madison. I heard she is a dancer or a stripper of sorts. I don't really know like what it is. Just a movie supposed to be really good. So this thing's moving and the editing is great. The cinematography is great. It's cruising, cruising, cruising. You're on this ride. It's like an amusement park ride for adults. Like you're on it. You're moving, moving and about. I didn't I never wanted I wanted to check my phone a lot. Not because I was bored. The opposite. Just because I'm like, where is this going? How much time do we have left? What's going on? But I resisted that. And there's a scene. Maybe it's 45 minutes, maybe it's an hour in that takes place in Las Vegas, and there's lights and there's music and you're editing. And now they're on Fremont Street with those planes going overhead, and they're smiling. And I just started crying. I was like, like, not because I said it was because it was just so beautiful. And I went, this hasn't happened to me in a long time in a movie where I just think this. And then it clicked. I went, oh, this is pure cinema. This is the thing we talk about. I'm getting chills right now just thinking about it again. And I wasn't weeping, but like a few tears and I went, well, this film is absolutely beautiful and we still got about an hour and 20 minutes to go. I think, where are we going? And every, subsequent beat was the thing I probably least expected to happen, and it fucking landed so hard every beat is like considered thought about and it just lands every narrative beat. I mean, totally lands such a satisfying film. Yeah, it, it goes places I did not expect it to go. And those there's a lot of tonal shifts throughout the movie, but all of them are earned and they're not ever questioned. It's almost like this, like dawning of a realization that you're like, oh, it's going here now. Yeah. Holy shit. It's like a surprise on Christmas. It's like, like a ride. It felt like a fucking ride to me. You never know which way you're going to go. And. And it was entertaining the whole way. But I like what you said about, like, the crying thing, because, honestly, I that didn't happen the first time, but the second time, at that exact time, it did. It was damn near on Freeman and I, I just started to get like a little teary eyed and I, I almost like, caught myself because I was like, why am I like, like tearing up right now? And, and it's it's because in that moment we'll get to it. But like because we're we're going spoiler free on this. We're just we're just yeah. Right now we're having a spoiler free discussion. We will I will let everyone know because I, Nick and I have discussed this. If this was in there are a lot of the Nora podcasts I have saved to my phone, because I didn't want to listen to anything before, frankly, before we recorded this, but certainly not before I saw it. That's just me. I would never listen to a podcast about a Nora until I saw the film. Go see the film, then listen to us. If if it doesn't really bother you, okay? But just know. Early warning. We are going to not right now, but in the back half of the episode we are going to spoil everything because this the movie. To have a full discussion about it, we have to open it up. So really we have to right now we're only going to be talking about things for like the first hour and we agreed on that. So I'm going to play music. I'm going to give so many warnings that this is spoiler time, but right now everyone's free and clear. But yeah, we will go there eventually. Yeah. So I'll just say I got emotional at the exact same part that you did for what ends up being truly the reason is because it is pure cinema, but it's all worked up until that point. Earned that too. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's leading you, like someplace and you're like hits this I don't know, narrative kind of crescendo of sorts. And it was just it was beautiful. And you know, when we come on to talk about new movies, we had a lot of fun with Megalopolis. We kind of knew what was going on. I don't think any of us thought that was going to be our favorite movie of the year, but it can be a little hard sometimes to talk about the current state of cinema because we, you know, who wants to hear us kind of complain about it. This is a movie podcast, at any rate. I want people to watch movies, but it should come as no surprise to our listeners that I spent, according to Letter Box, 70% of my movie time watching old stuff like new to me, old stuff. I do not spend the majority of my time watching like me, what I like. I'm not going to go back and watch like 2022 or 2023 new to me movies. Oh no. I thought you were going to. I thought you were going to say that, that you haven't seen too many 20, 24 movies because I was like, no, it's not true. You see, all of these 20, 24 movies, I do see them all. That's true. But my I don't have the highest opinion of them and I try to just downplay them. We can have fun on Megalopolis, but if now once we get into Oscar time, I think that gives me license to judge these movies a little harder, which we've talked about. We're going to do like going forward because they've been acclaimed with these nominations. So, okay, but if I'm not going to sit here and like shit on a movie, a new movie that I saw that I didn't like, you know what I'm going to do tonight? Because I, I don't when we're done recording, I don't want to watch this fucking election coverage because it depresses me. So I think I'm going to go to I'm going to go to a movie theater and see here the Robert Zemeckis movie that I think looks fucking terrible. Or I'm going to see the Clint Eastwood movie, juror number two, that is only in one theater because it's coming straight to streaming. But I'm like, do I? Yeah, I want to go see that. I don't know, I'm a masochist. I know these movies are going to be good. Like, I know that I it would be smarter and more creatively fulfilling for me to go see a Nora again. But this is like. So my point is, yes, I do try to have a good measure of the year as it's going, but, just this little mini rant is that movies like a Nora, from my perspective, and it sounds like your perspective are incredibly rare as time goes on. This is a movie made for adults. This thing is rated R, it's made for adults. I don't mean it's like an adult movie, but that's what Sean Baker does. He says that all the time in the press. I make R-rated movies that I want, you know, adults to see and talk about that is lacking. We we complain all the time on this podcast that the 6 to $10 million movie doesn't exist anymore, that they don't make these anymore like they did in the 90s. Here it is, $6 million. It's this is it. This is what we're always talking about, that we never get anymore. It's right here in Nora. And it's in, it's in. It's pretty undeniable, too, like, I yeah, I, I have not met anyone that hasn't been affected by this movie in some sort of way. Yes. So, so clearly what we're seeing here is that Sean Baker has made a movie for this price range without any visual effects, yet you are taken by the visuals of this movie the entire way through, and it will land for you in some sort of capacity in a meaningful way, which is what these movies are always supposed to do. It's what. It's what cinema is supposed to do. And so now we actually have exactly what you're talking about, like it's this, this is that movie. It does exactly what cinema should do. Yes, it the movie. Okay. What is this about? Generally speaking, the film is about a dancer slash stripper named Annie who lives in Brooklyn, and one day she meets a crazy, one day, a crazy 21 year old manchild, Russian manchild comes stumbling into the club and wants to sweep her off her feet. But he's crazy. He's drunk, he's on drugs, and he's fun. And he has seemingly unlimited wealth because his parents are. His father, in particular is a famous Russian rich guy. So the son has this crazy, he's just living in this crazy mansion in Brooklyn, and he kind of get swept up into his life. And for the first part that we're going to talk about here in the spoiler free section, this is fun. There's a whole lot of fun stuff going on. What's wrong with it? If they get too fucked up, they just hire those nurses to come in and give them, you know, the IV fluid. Give us double dose today. We're gonna get extra fucked up tonight. Like there's there's money, there's friends, there's weed, there's drugs. Like it just it's spinning. It's spinning. And that's our setup for the movie. And like, before we even go further into the movie, I want to talk about Sean Baker. But if you've seen any of his films, this is not a guy who's concerned very intensely with plot. He's not setting something up. And then it's like this ABC that's going to pay off. You're really just following people. These are usually people who are quote unquote, marginalized, usually people who belong to some sort of subculture, undocumented immigrants. He's very fond of telling their stories, sex workers. But these these films are about humanity. They're never about exploitation. That is why. Well, let's let's talk about Sean Baker, because I've had I've had a hell. I've had a hell of a time in the past. So this Tuesday, I saw this movie on Thursday and I've had. So I'll start I. Okay, here we go. I've never been as big of a fan as seemingly everyone else was, and I kind of down disappeared. Your love for the Florida Project? I've always liked that movie I have. Don't get me wrong, it made my top ten of the year in 2021. I saw Red rocket. I did not like it. And I told you that I didn't like it because we were maybe going to review it and it just went away for me. Tangerine was his 2015 movie that he shot on an iPhone. It was a huge deal. One of the first major movies to be shot on an iPhone and an iPhone five. At that. He shot it himself. Sean Baker did I, I it just felt like a novelty. It's what got him on the map that tangerine is. Yes, Tangerine is what got him on the map and let him level up. I'll talk about all of his films in passing, but I'm watching and Nora, and it clicks as we're getting toward the end. When I went, I've been viewing all of his films through the incorrect lens. I'm expecting something from these movies. This these are not movies about expectation. These are movies about observance. And you're watching people do things. And the movie obsessed brain that I put on his films, I'm going, Holy shit, something terrible is about to happen. Florida project. The whole fucking time you're seeing these kids, these five and six year old kids, just run across highways and run on roads, and the whole time you're like, they're going to get clipped, like one of these kids is going to get hit, and that's where the movie is going to go. But instead, he offers up another sort of unexpected drama, which is that they accidentally burn a house down, an abandoned house down. And that's your drama, and you go with that. So he's constantly defying expectation, and he is constantly withholding the quote unquote wow ending that is so satisfying. And everyone's happy and everyone's going to go on it, live it. There's a sense of hope. Maybe there is, depending on what you put on it. But moreover, they're just real stories. I have since gone back, since seeing a Nora and rewatched all of his movies, and I am in love with all of them now. I've seen a few for the first time, but I never. I just didn't expect this to happen. I put on Red rocket right before I left for Nora. I gave myself enough time and I thought, well, let's just, I don't know, let's just see. And I'm watching. I'm going. I'm laughing my ass off. What? I think this is funny. Like, what's going on? This is not how I viewed. And it does something toward the end. The first time I saw it, there's an accident that happens that I thought was so convenient and fucking dumb when I saw it in the theater, and now I look at it, I was involved, I was involved, but I was a witness of a fucking terrible car accident like two months ago. This is in in real life. So I was watching Red rocket. I was like, that's kind of the action. And I was like, this shit could just happen. You don't know. This shit can just happen. And I was being I wasn't so critical on them on all this movie. So I'm eating my own words. Even though a lot of these words were in private, I never got the Sean Baker thing. I completely and fully get it now. Every director, every actor, every creative person is one movie away from completely winning me over. And for me to to say I was wrong, I never hated the guy. I never, I never his movies. But I always kind of undersold him. Like, yeah, oh he's good. Yeah, the movies are good. Now. I'm like, these movies are fucking incredible. Well, there's something about and this is something that I've always kind of noticed in that way that you're kind of like understanding now in these repeat watching of it is in Florida project when the kids burn down the house, the traffic incident that happens in Red rocket. Yeah, there's stuff in the north that happens. It's like this two oh where these occurrences happen. And yes, they lead our characters a certain way, but it is not ever the defining moment or the next journey of the movie. We deal with it for like a little bit and there is some consequence that happens. So like in Red rocket, like Lonnie, he he goes to jail more. He does. Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately like ten minutes later, that accident has nothing to do with what we're seeing now. Same thing with the kids burning down the house. What this affords you, I think, is like a filmmaker to screenwriter. We get to actually experience what these characters, these very human characters do is a result of these things. Yeah. And then because now we've learned. So like basically in Red rocket, like the takeaway that we learned from Simon Rex's character is that he is so stressed out. And then when he finds out that he's in the clear, so to speak, he doesn't think about it at all. He doesn't care about Lonnie. No. Now we know something about him. And now that affects us. And now that we see him on his, where he goes next. Same thing with the kids like that. That might one of my favorite shots in Florida project is because that little goddamn girl enjoys the shit out of me. And I love her because, like, I hate kids, but, like, she's she's a little tyrant. She's just an all little child. Come on. Well, yeah. Yeah, she's been put the fucking baton when I mean, that's crazy shit. It's true that some crazy shit. But it's the one moment in that movie where the camera cuts to her and she looks like, oh, shit, I. Oh, yeah, yeah, you need to see that. Like, you understand that little girl so much more in that one moment. Because that whole movie, she doesn't take responsibility for anything, right? That's the one time where she does and that's enough. Yeah. So anyways, all I'm saying is I'm so glad that, like, part of what I think Sean Baker's like a contributions to what he does as a storyteller. Are these things where these are not the the next leg of the movie? It's just an aspect of what we're doing. But what you get from the characters is the point. Yeah, I, I would agree because he has a writing credit on every movie he's done, but he's also a director who sets up his stories and develops his films with the use of extensive discussion rehearsal so that, a lot of what's on screen is improvised and they're improvised situations, but like in a forced scenario. So, you know, you have two people here who normally wouldn't be here, but let's improvise. And I was going to I was almost interjected. I was going to say, I don't know how true this is of a Nora, because I've intentionally not read a lot about it, but there are some scenes when you can feel like you look at her face and she wants she or she looks like or just says like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, what the fuck is going on? It's so convincing that she's maybe hearing this for the first time. But a lot of his movies operate that way. And that, again, is just so credited to that is characters matter first, not the plot, not the story, not is this person going to catch up? Is you know, the prostitute in Tangerine going to find her pimp like that? That's a fun thing that's going through it. But it's what's happening to these people. Yeah. Like you're saying, I yeah, it's it's just it's wild to have gone back and rewatched his movies and see how it's all, in a way been leading to an Nora and like, yeah, this is a relatively young guys and I think it's 50. So what's 53? So yeah, he's going to give us more films and I just hope they're all in this style. Right. He does not seem like someone who's remotely interested in taking on like a 30, let alone $100 million movie. Like good, good. Keep doing this, please. No, I, I agree, and I do think that this is unquestionable. Like this is the best movie he's made. It's. Yeah, even even in these other movies that we're talking about like he the way that he hits these moments or the way that he captures certain feelings because that's I think another part of his talent is like, I'll tell you, like the end of the Florida Project, when the kids are running at the very end to get to the park, and he switches to that iPhone just for that last run. Right. Well, it was all guerrilla. They didn't have permission to do yet. Exactly. But the idea that happened was like, I remembered, I still get it every time I watch. It is sort of like, forget everything, take my hand and we're and we're going to live here because whatever's going to happen afterwards is, is going to happen. But right now, let's take our hand into the magic. It's just that one little feeling. But he communicates it and then you get it. And he's he's very, very good at that. And I think this movie does it all the time, which is just amazing. It really is. It really is a feat. So I'll go through his filmography quickly here. His first movie was Four Letter Words in 2000. This apparently just doesn't exist according to the internet. People have log the letter box. I have no idea how to see this. Take out 2004 is on criterion, which I loved. This is about a young guy, a Chinese guy, maybe 1920, in New York, and he owes some loan shark some money, who clearly gave him money to, like, move in and kind of set up stuff. And he just delivers food for a Chinese restaurant on a bike. And it's set over 29 new 24 hours. It's set over one shift. Can he make enough and tips to pay off these loan sharks by the end of the day, because they fuck him up in the beginning, they hurt him in the beginning and they're like, you got till the end of the day. And that's that's what it is. And you know, we're talking about this tension, this real life humaine tension that Sean Baker can mount up. So I just described that plot. This guy has nothing. He's literally hoping for every single dollar. What happens when a guy like this is carrying that much money around in New York? So this is the tension. Like if he if he loses, it's his life's over. Okay. Prince of Broadway, 2008. Very difficult one to find. This thing is a mini masterpiece. This is an ad for a guy from Ghana. Sells, like, bags out of a store in New York. Like, off the street. You know, designer bags that are fake. Taurus from a Nora is an all Sean every Sean Baker movie. He's the guy who owns the store. He's great. So our our lead character is allowed to. You know, like, sell out of there. And he's on a sale one day and some woman just drops a one year old in his hands and goes, this is your son. I'll be back in two weeks. It's like, what the hell are you talking about? It doesn't end. It doesn't really look like him. So he's like, how? Like, what is this? So this guy who has nothing, he has a girlfriend, but he doesn't make money like he's selling handbags. But. But he's also a really good guy. Like, I love this guy. I loved this movie, I wept, I was hysterically laughing. So, okay, you get a one year old and this, this actor who wasn't an actor, he hasn't been. A lot of people in Sean Baker's movies have never been in another movie again because they're actual, real people. And there's a scene with them in bed and our guys like, oh, just go to sleep, man, please. And the kid just won't stop slapping him harder in the face. And it's hysterical because he's one years old, so it doesn't hurt. But he's like, the guy's like, oh my God, stop. You can't direct that. You can't write that. That's just your you hope to capture it. Hysterical. Love the movie. His next film starlet in 2012, by the way, all these movies are made for like under $100,000. Everything I'm talking about so far. Star. That was $235,000. I love this one. It stars Ernest Hemingway's granddaughter, Dree Hemingway, who's trying to break into that. Yeah, who's trying to break? That's Mariel Hemingway's daughter. Mariel Hemingway's good actress. She was in, like, Manhattan and stuff, trying to break into the indie porn business in LA, and she befriends like an 90 year old woman. And that's what the movie's about. And for the movie, he used porn excerpts for one scene. So the inserts are, graphic in in a scene. It's not the actress, not the Hemingway actress, but he's doing that before Lars von Trier is doing it. He's doing that for $235,000 movie. But as you said, 2015. What puts it on the map is Tangerine. It's a day in the life of two transgender prostitutes working on Santa Monica Boulevard, Santa Monica and Highland, literally right next to, a scene that we shot for your film. Like right around the same time we shot the, opening jazz club scene. And there I go, right next to the donut shop in Tangerine. I swear to God. Shot it on an iPhone five S. Like I said, he was also the DP himself, Sean Baker. So he shot this himself. Only $100,000 was the budget in This Thing premiered at Sundance and it was a huge like most people, myself included, had not heard of Sean Baker before this, and this puts him on the map. When I saw it in 2015, it looked like kind of harsh, like iPhone quality. Now I don't even notice because we watched so much shit. That's just like, you know, you watch YouTube videos, you watch whatever like Soderbergh has done to this. He's on iPhones. So it's like, I don't even mind the look now, which is really funny. I remember you have like when it came out, it it was something where I looked at it as like the novelty that might have been like the whole entire reason he did it, because it's sort of like I need to. 2015 was a very interesting time. I remember, because this is when we were making there I go. You had this see year we met. Yeah. Yep. You would just come off of wait. So you were you you'd been kind of like in the whole entire thing at that time. It was a very, very real thing where people were demanding what the next new thing was going to be. No one had really figured it out, but there was a clamor. There was sort of like, what can I do that's different? What can I do that's cheap? This was during the big boom of, the Duplass brothers. It's like, how how can you make a movie? Mumble yourself? Yeah. Yup. You have to. Swanberg stuff. I loved all that stuff. It's a really good point. I never put this into like, global consideration. Like you're talking. This makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I can't help but think that part of, like, what made Tangerine become the breakout movie was because it was the first movie to do this. And as the movie goes, yeah, I, I think the movie's good. Like, I think it's I think it's Sean Baker doing Sean Baker stuff, and I think it's also putting a lens on, like that whole transgender community, which he does with all of his characters, which is just no judgment. No judgment. And all it all. Yes, all. Yes, I like it. There's no difference between watching these two transgender people on this on the streets working. Then there is two guys working in clerks at a at a some bags. Yeah. Like yeah. Like there's just, there's just, there's just no differentiating. And that's what's so great is that it's, it's showcasing like how he views us as humans is that there's no one better. There's like even even in the era, like you've got this Russian wealthy guy. And you understand this about him. But it's almost like it doesn't matter because you're watching his personality. His personality is what you take in. You just know things about him. Just like you know that. Oh these people are our prostitutes on the street. Okay. It's it's it's a testament to how easy it is to actually just accept people. Yeah, yeah. And again, very well said. Yeah. It's like the, the marginalized characters that we're talking about. There's never any judgment. That's why they're not they're not exploitative films like it's. And I got a guy to try to get his name right. You know me in the name. So this guy Karen Carrigan, he's who plays Toros in Andorra, this is an Armenian actor who was a movie buff and Matt Baker. And if you go on his IMDb like he's only been in Baker's movies pretty much, but he's the one who plays a cab driver in this, and he's great. Like, I love this guy so much. Yeah, he's so good at his movies. This is stuff that comes out of his mouth. Is hilarious. And, what a film. The Florida Project 2017. He gets a whopping$2 million to make this one, I joked. That is a huge level up when you're used to $100,000 budgets. Yeah, not on an iPhone anymore. Now we're in glorious 35 millimeter easy movie to find. I believe it's even on Netflix. I put this on. I had this on on Sunday. When Ali got home. I was about ten minutes in. She said. Usually what I'll do is I'm like, you know, I can turn it off and we'll put on something we like, agree to watch. But as she likes what she sees within those first, you know, 10s, she'll be like, no, you can keep it on. Then she sat there for the rest and loved it. She's like, what the fuck is this movie? Who are these people? And then she brought up a good point that I've failed to mention so far. She's like, is it okay that I don't like this mom? And I don't really like these people? And I went, oh yeah, oh yeah. Like, it's okay. He doesn't make a movie about fully likable characters. They're very, very flawed to the point where you don't really know if they're going to change in the mom. And this doesn't really change. That's what I mean. He's constantly subverting our movie obsessed expectations, where there's going to be this huge arc and all. We've figured it all out like, no, that's that is not what these are, that it's not the design in the experiment of these films. It's not the exercise of his filmography. And to counter my point is that, like, okay, he presents these people with no judgment, which is true, but we will judge them as the audience. Yeah. And and that's what it is, is like he he doesn't make any kind of like there's no arc for her. And there are people out there in the world, unfortunately, that are just never going to change. And, and then a lot of them are in, in these types of places in life. And and that's all he's like, he's just putting it out there for you to, to deal with. Yeah. And so yeah. So we can judge. But he doesn't judge exactly. And it was so fun watching that with Ali because she's like, what is this? What does this woman do all day? And I go, right, she's not even living paycheck to paycheck like she doesn't have a job. She has a kid. She just wakes up and everything that happens in her day, the most important thing is what's happening, right then. There's no thought of planning. There's no thought of a future. How am I going to get a buck? It's like we just don't get a lot of films like this, a lot of competently made, very well done films that are going to be nominated for Oscars, like Willem Dafoe was also cool that Willem Dafoe showing up because he's he's always an actor who's looked for those early young filmmakers. You saw Tangerine. He saw that stuff. Exactly what he's done to Robert Eggers. Like he saw The Witch and he goes, I'm on board. Get me in that guy's movies. And he's so good in this movie, he's it's like, it's just it just feels like a real person. And at some point, I didn't want to say it to Allie, but at some point she realized, does he live there at the hotel? And I'm like, yeah, he's room 101. He is one slip up away from being one of them. And she and she's like, oh my God, that puts so much more just emphasis. And you, I care about him so much more. And then my guy Karen is there. He owns the hotel. He's the one who comes in a few times, like, what is this? And he can't put the bikes here. Man, I love this guy. Yeah, he always shows up the Florida Project. Definitely newfound appreciation for it. I should also say this is when a producer named Samantha Kwan is coming on to help make these movies. And this is who Sean Baker is married to. So we have a nice director producer team. She is credited for being the acting teacher for the kids in the movie. And then, yeah, that that final scene is all like guerrilla filmmaking. They didn't have permission and they switch that to an iPhone six, I believe, and it's just them running into the park. And what Allie said was, well, how did they gain? Like how did they get into the park? And I'm like, yeah, that's it's you know, I don't know if it's supposed to be quote unquote real, but it gives you this feeling of like, take my hand. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it got so much more impactful to me now after not it's weird. This shit can click into place. The biggest one that clicked into place for me, though, was Red rocket, which I thought was just fucking hysterical. The second time I saw it, I told you I rewatched it. I know you've rewatched it as well. It stars Simon Rex, who kind of like came and went in Hollywood, had a moment and then left, and it's kind of genius casting that he's hiring him to play this, kind of washed up, burnt out porn star who has to leave L.A. and move back to his hometown in Texas. And he's a guy that is a complete, unabashed narcissist. He's charming, definitely, but he never shut the fuck up. You're like, like, just let somebody get a word in edgewise. And I thought he was annoying. And I thought the crash that happened toward the end, this is the first time I saw it was silly and I didn't like anyone, and I just completely won 80 on it. And I really, really loved it.$1.1 million movie. That's it looks great. Oh, awesome. Make less than for a price. Yeah, yeah, maybe for less than Florida project. Yeah. But I want to know how you feel about this one now that you've rewatched it. I know we kind of already touched on it, but it's just really good. Well, it's funny because when it came out, I didn't see it when we were doing our favorite of 2021, I think I told you not to watch. So that's what I'm saying. Like I'm genuinely trying to explain. I didn't say don't edit. I don't I remember saying like it didn't do anything for me. I feel like he's making the same movie over and over again. That's what I told you. And that is a that is a wildly just limited approach to his filmmaking, that he's making the same movie over and over again. That's that's just silly thinking. I don't know, I was I must have been I don't know what it meant. One field, I mean, it it makes sense that, like when you watch movies the way that like like the way that we analyze and critique and all this, that where when you get one movie like in Nora, where it does all click and then you kind of just realize what this filmmaker's all about. Roger Ebert, Mulholland Drive we just talked about Lynch, how we didn't like any Lynch movie. He sees Mulholland Drive and he's like, shit, I get it now. Now, I don't know if he ever went back. Like I said, I wish you would have and re reviewed Blue Velvet or something, but that's kind of what I'm doing now. Though he hated Lynch's movies. I've never hated Sean Baker's movies. I just don't I just didn't get it. I was like, I feel like there's something I'm missing here. And ignored made me get it, I get it, it in with Red rocket. Yeah. The second time I saw it. It's funny you said you had you had a funnier reaction to it. I think I had a more serious reaction to it the second time watching it. I was both. Yeah, in a good way. Like, I was like, it's a very interesting movie because the dude is just selfish. He's just, unbelievably selfish. And yet I care about what happens to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do too, because he's not malicious. He's just a selfish fucking dingbat. Yeah. Like do something for someone else. Just try it. Just try it. And the thing is, is, like he does actually. But they're in like these. These, like, he doesn't think of it like at all. Like he ends up paying their rent, which is like lower than he's he's like, I got these motherfucker. And she's like, you're going to pay for the whole month. And he's like, yep. And they go, oh, now you're talking, all right. It's like they were just getting ready to kick him out. And he's like, oh yeah. Oh, today I have this magic wad in my pocket because I've been selling some weed and he's all proud about it. And you want to be like, why didn't you already tell them you were going to pay you? I guess you were getting kicked out. I genuinely think he didn't want to pay the rent. Okay, I think yeah, like that now. But now he's now he's like, okay, I'm doing this. And then he's like, shit, I have to do this all the time now. I, I also did not, my brain just kind of like, deleted the last, I don't know, 15 minutes or so of the movie. So I loved going back because there's, there's a scene like it's a very. He's frantic, the movie isn't frantic, but he's frantic. And there's a scene where it's one shot and we're in the corner and he is telling his ex something. He's like making a statement about something, and she is dead silent. And I went, oh, this is coming back to me now. Oh, that's right, we're going to find another gear here. And we did it. Just it ends again, like in a humane way. Not I mean, that last kind of segment, the very, very end, which you already kind of hinted in reference is just so, it's kind of devious. And I was like, oh, bad. I don't think anyone learned a lesson here. No, that's the thing is, like, I that's not going to go well. She can't calm down. He's got 200 bucks. Exactly. I have money for a taxi. So like so he is literally going to leave Texas exactly the way he arrived there. Yep. And and I do not think he learned anything. Yeah. And I, I love that that's like I think that my favorite part about that whole entire thing is that they movie's like two hours and ten minutes. Yeah. And there are so many critics and I'm and you're welcome to this opinion where that. Why would I watch a movie for two hours and ten minutes where the main character isn't learn anything? That was me in 2021. Yeah, yeah, I think that was me. Yeah, yeah. Now I find the the kind of absurdity, the sadness and the humor and all of that. Yeah. Because the thing is, is like, yes, he didn't learn anything. And the people that he affected end up feeling the exact same way about him as he arrived. Just it just reinforced their feelings. Yeah, but he does. He if you look at everyone, he didn't make them feel good in some kind of way along the way. And he wasn't malicious. He didn't actually try to fuck anyone over. He just got lost in do himself. So I don't know, it's like one of those things where it's like, do you leave something better the like than the way you found it, even though they still end up feeling the same way? Like he put smiles on people's faces for a brief period of time. Is that worth something in life? I don't know, that would be his argument that I'm a fun time. I mean, he made a lot of people in the movie a little money or, you know, like he made the body like he, he provided in some ways. So, yeah, it's strawberries. Her last line that she says is, you make me happy. That's something I don't know. It's an interesting it's an interesting, moral question to ask. Oh yeah. So I just had so much fun rewatching that one and then going right into a Nora, which is this kind of miracle, the movie. He's got $6 million. He makes it. It's amazing. I do want to say that now, I've having seen all of his movies except for letter words. The first one, there's a scene in Red rocket when someone vomits and I put. I stood up from the couch and I went, yes, yes, because I now realize there's a funny vomiting scene and every shot maker, he does it. Every single one. All of them. It has to be his thing. Every single one of his movies has vomit. Maybe not funny, but just in some capacity, I don't know. I picked up on that marginalized people and vomit, to play a Nora. He cast Mikey Madison because of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, her brief role, or because of her roles in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood in Scream five? Actually, she's great in both of those. We have been watching her since 2016, and then she better sings. Created by Pamela Adlon. Yes, I love the show. You got me into the show. I never even, like considered it and I started it. She plays Max, one of her daughters. She has three daughters, a single mom in LA raising three daughters and some of their interactions and some of their arguments. I'm thinking about one in particular that oh yeah, so good and believable. So I have been following her since 2016. And then I remember when she was in Hollywood and in scream five, you and I were just so happy. So when this news broke that she was going to be in this, I went, okay, but she will be nominated for Best actress for Nora. Right? So we're going to see how it goes. I'm so happy for her career, just so happy she's done a body of work. And it doesn't matter how it led to here, because she's got here and then she gives us a performance like this where it's just sort of like, throw the towel in, like it's just, yeah, I can't. She did such a good job. And it's not even just in her acting. It's the way she looks. It's. Yeah. Like I can't picture anyone else doing this. Absolutely not. I just I cannot picture anyone else doing this. So that's a testament to her. Yeah. And you know, this is the this is a podcast for adults as well to the children. Don't listen to this. She's a stripper. She starts sleeping with this guy that she meets Ivan, this young kid Ivan aka Vanya. And the sex scenes in this movie are like, they're all necessary and they're funny. A lot of them. And they they're never. He has a lot of sex scenes in his movies. They're never titillating. They are very no, they're usually very quick. And a lot of these in a Nora were just hilarious. And I was laughing aloud. And they've been working on this for about a year, like rehearsing, talking about it. And Sean Baker and his wife, Samantha Cohen, who I already mentioned acted out all of the sex scenes. I don't think they were having sex, but they acted out how they wanted them to look for the actors, and they did that for a while. So when it came down to hiring an intimacy coordinator, essentially Mikey Madsen was like, you guys kind of have been my intimacy coordinator, so I'm good, so I'm comfortable. Let's, let's just go and it and that's how it worked. And it all it it plays so so well. But I like the I'm saying from second ten he is letting you know this Mikey Mikey Madison from Better things. That actress doesn't exist anymore. This is a mature adult now. So here's a mature adult role. This is the woman who gets flamethrower to death in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and it is an amazing seed. But we're in a very different vibe now, and she handled all of that. It's a big responsibility. I don't think she's ever it's a big led or starred a movie like this and she completely seizes it. Everything from the dancing to even the way she's constantly like vaping or smoking or something. And the scowl on her face to say nothing of the perfect Brooklyn accent, which a lot of people, you know, who live in that area have, and she just nails it. It's never over the top. She has to speak some flimsy Russian in this, which yet what she learned for this role, it's it's all so impressive. It's just so impressive. You you brought up something that I think is very true. Like that the responsibility of this role, this is the type of thing that doesn't really exist a lot anymore. Yeah. Like there's so many side characters in here. There's so much going on. But the weight of everything happens to her character. Yep. If we don't feel that every step of the way, then the movie loses you. And that's why the movie never loses you. Trying to think of the last time where there was a movie that was so kind of like, this will not work if the lead is not absolutely perfect, like it's it's kind of a crazy thought. Yeah, it it's pretty rare, especially for someone so young who's also never led a movie before. Like, it's just. Yeah, it's all on her. There are wild. Yeah, it's in it. You're right. Like the emotion of it. It's all resting on her. And this isn't someone who's constantly making good decisions. And you have to watch the fall out of that and go, well, yeah, duh. How do you think? I mean, sometimes people say to her, how the hell do you think that was going to turn out? Or like, yeah, obviously we're not blank. Blank. Yeah. All right. Before we venture into spoilers, cinematography, you just want to give a huge shout out Drew Daniels who did Krisha Waves. We first mentioned to Nora on the waves podcast. Go listen to the waves podcast a few episodes for you. He did Red rocket. He's also thriving on TV. Outer Range Swarm I haven't seen those. The idol I did see the idol fucking show. A Nora was shot on 35mm film as well. He he edits all of his own movies. I really think you can feel that authorship in the editing. The editing is so it can be crazy at times, but it's I mean, he you really feel him ramping up the tension with more rapid editing. He's doing that in takeout. He'll do it. And he's very, very good. He edited this movie, a Nora on Adobe Premiere Pro, which is what I edit this podcast on. Love that Oscar chances. I think we're looking at picture director, actress, supporting actor, which we'll talk about in the spoiler section screenplay, maybe cinematography, maybe cinema, maybe editing. I left out editing. Perhaps they give him doubles. They could give him screenplay, editing and director nominations and picture. Because he produced it. He could be walking away with four nominations here. Wins. I'm not. It's too early to call that shit, I don't know, but this has as good of chance as anything. It's not. I can't saying like, oh, it's not a traditional Oscar movie. That doesn't even mean anything anymore because they've been giving the shit to some crazy ass movies lately like crazy shit. So, it has as good a chances as anything I've seen. I'm not saying that because I am an ecstatic fan of the movie. I'm saying that because that is the state of 2024 cinema so far. Yes. If you were kind of looking at it as a traditional Oscar history, this this would be like that indie movie where everyone knows is really good, but it's not a typical Best Picture winner. So we'll give it the screenplay nomination. Yeah. Boogie nights yeah. Boogie nights 97. Yeah, it's like that. They gave it that to not get nominated for director picture. Yeah. Gets a screenplay acting. Yeah. But exactly due to the landscape of 2024 and yeah. Are you happy Oscars your ten Best picture nominees. This is the best is like because of that rule you have to put in or you have to. It would just be dumb if it's not. Yeah. By default it has to go in here. So because it's already there, now is the Oscars. You have to be like, well, we got to give it some other things because it's actually this picture at the very bare minimum, you're looking at a Best picture and best lead actor. The actress. Well, hey, they still defined by gender, but yes, it'll be actress. Yeah. And I do think that it'll get a screenplay nomination. I would love Baker to get nominated for director. I think that's a pretty solid bet, too. Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I'll be happy with that. But what they're I mean, we're if they nominate ten movies, we're getting really fucking close to a Deadpool and Wolverine Best Picture nomination. And you think I'm joking? I'm not. That movie was such a success. I'm like, oh my God, we're looking at Dune two. We're just looking at some like, weird stuff. So yes, but this all could work for Nora. It could work that there's not a bunch of other stuff. So here you go. So, really looking forward to that. We have it here. We found a movie. I found a movie in 2024 that I love. It isn't some weird, like, point of view movie of a serial killer slashing kids to death like, in a violent nature, which I love, which I love, which I love. Well, this is strange because I usually put spoilers at the end, so I might have to do some crafty editing and actually put. What are you watching before the spoilers? Yeah, I think it's safe to say Stranger Things. I think it's safe to say that Nora gets both of our seals of approval. I it just seems safe and fair to me to say this is going to be my favorite movie of the year. I really want to see the brutalist. So do you the Brady Corbett want to be up if that? Yep. Hey, this is going to be an amazing problem to have if the brutalist is somehow better than a Nora to both of us, I'd be like, what the fuck happened here? Oh my, I can't believe this happened. But this gets my highest recommendation a no, it does mean you're talking to no matter what. Those are going to be two very, very different movies. So like. Oh yeah, exactly. Ruthless ends up it's going to be for a different kind of reason. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's like four hours long. So yeah, we'll see. I mean that's probably good to get nominated for picture two. But yeah we'll see. But yes. Let us let's move on to what are you watching? If I am putting this someplace different and just bear with me, I just I want the spoilers to be last. I don't want people to, like, have to skip through the spoilers to get to our awesome. What are you watching recommendations. Because we're going to have a little fun in this segment. We'll keep it fast, but wherever the segment is in the podcast, welcome to What Are You Watching? You had a very interesting take on Joker Folie Ado that I would love to hear it all right. This is this is where this is where this is where we're going to lose a bunch of people. Maybe I shouldn't start with this. No, no, no no, I love it. I, I liked Joker two quite a bit. Now, the reason that I liked it is a reason that I can't even begin to tell you there is no evidence of the filmmaking that would lend you to believe that the what I started to think about that movie is what the movie was doing. Also, I have never cared about between Joker one and two. Its involvement with the character of the Joker from Batman. Yeah, I personally don't like to look at these movies as superhero Batman related movies because I just don't think that's what they are. I don't think Todd Phillips thinks they are either. Well, he's admitted now that it's not like he said now after the second one, that this is just like a Arthur's just a dude. He's just a guy. Okay, perfect. You know, these movies should have been called Arthur. Arthur, you go for your fucking name. I think it makes more than a billion Arthur flick being released now. I don't think he gets the Oscar or it wins more than. Or it makes more than $1 billion. I don't think so. Exactly. And I think that's why a lot of people are pissed at this movie because they were sold a billion. Go to it. This is the Joker and it ain't not it. Not at all. And but even the first one isn't. But I think you're almost handed more because people love that movie. And I think the reason they liked it is because of what we had always said. It was, this is Taxi Driver and the King of Comedy. Yep. Disguised as something else. Yeah. Now, when you look at what Joaquin does performance wise in that movie, it's, it's, I mean it's it's undeniable. And it's doing enough different things to where it is its own thing. But anyone who knows anything knows that that's all this really is. I always liked it because I was like, I feel like this movie is just kind of a giant fuck you. And then the second one comes out and if you really want to talk about a big fuck you, that this is me now, now, here's what I took from the movie, and this is where I will lose a lot of people. But I also maybe encourage you to maybe rewatch this movie from a different lens, because the way that I saw this movie is the only way that it works. Because sure, sure, there are certain like plausible, realistic structural realities that this movie forgoes in a lot of ways. So forget about the fact that as a Batman, it's something to do with that. So for me, okay, so the beginning of the movie is he gets like, he's getting a shave. Yeah. And he's being pulled out of his cell. I don't know what happened, but right after that we've cut. So now we're in the prison scene and I just go. I think this is all in his head. I don't think any of this is real. I think the very first three minutes of that movie is reality, and the very last three minutes of that movie is reality. Every single thing that happens in the rest of that movie is a complete fantasy. It is not happening. It is all in his head. If you go by that measure. This movie is actually really quite breathtaking because what you're really kind of dealing with is a guy who's lonely, who is fantasizing about being in love and the feelings that that brings. Because when you are in love, it does feel like life is a bit of a musical and then everything, but it's also being combated with this idea that he's on trial. What I've struggled to kind of thought about the whole entire movie. I go, this trial means nothing. He's done what he's done. There's nothing to be convicted for. That was what I had a hard time with. Yeah. If you're looking at a mentally ill person, that's just really kind of having these fantastical elements thrown out to them. That's all that's happening. I, like I've said, this movie did not at all. Todd Phillips did not give you a reason to think that this is at all what's actually happening. I don't know what happened to me. I just had a thought and I go, I don't think any of this is real. And then but I kept watching it through that way. Yeah. I was like, this is riveting. This is just really fascinating being inside the head of someone sick. But the joy, because it doesn't make sense that Lady Gaga just shows up in his cell, like, how did you get in here? Oh, the guards let me in because I'm leaving. None of that's real. But in your head, because you think about things like that. Oh, no. I'm just stuck here. But what if she was here? What if she just got in here? Oh my God. La la la. That and what I texted you back is that is in, in my opinion, an extremely charitable read on the movie, but we're all allowed to watch movies however the hell we want to and put our read on. And this is a movie podcast. I liked that take on it. I don't agree, it's a much better take. I thought in the movie I thought all the musical numbers were imagined. I thought that was the imagination that was going off. I thought everything that he was showing us was, text and not subtext in like a nightmare in his head or something. I was I was also a little surprised that you liked it, because I thought that singing was very bad, almost on purpose. But I didn't like it at all. And so. And you don't like musicals, nor do I typically. And, I just could have done without all those musical numbers. And I thought the movie could have been tighter and stronger. This might be a hot take, too. I liked it just as much as the first 1 or 2. I did not flip out about the first one that came out before we had the movie pod. I understood why he won. I thought it was a good performance. I don't think it's anywhere near his best performance. Think his best performance was a year earlier and you were never really here, to be perfectly honest. Or you could do you could find something else. But I was like, okay. It always it stunned me, the hyperbolic praise that was heaped at that film and that it made so much money that it got nominated for so many Oscars. I was like, what the fuck are you all on? Okay. And then for the exact opposite thing to happen five years later is really culturally, just significant. And as a film fan, I've been sitting here kind of like laughing my ass off at all these takes gold like Jesus Christ people. I mean, people are like, flipping out about this and losing their minds to Tarantino without Cirrhosis podcast. It's one of the best movies he's ever seen. And Walking Phoenix gets one of the best performances he's ever seen. I love a tear you no shit, but he's like, yeah, fuck you all, this movie's a masterpiece. Hey, my dad loved it too. My dad loved it, so I just thought. I thought it was hysterical how mad people got about it, that's all. I just thought it was so, so funny to watch the flip out. The movie did bomb it really lost a lot of money. Like it did not. It didn't even break even. Not even remotely break even. So, that'll be a legacy of the movie year, but I that's why I wanted to hear your take on it, because I like to take. That's why it's funny. Like he that I mean, the ending. I thought it was cool. If it's all. Just imagine that. Does it, you know, makes a lot of things kind of make sense. You're able to forgive a lot. And then that final scene I thought was really effective and genuinely just like, life sucks and then you die. Fuck you. The whole movie of fuck you, the whole thing is the whole thing. The whole thing. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if my theory, like, if it makes sense, is that after the first one, he kills all these people, goes to jail, and then this is all just because all he does is have his time is just kind of furthers his, you know, descent into madness or whatever it is. And then the end happens. Well, then it is just like, that's that's life. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't deserve I didn't think the first one deserved the praise. I don't think this one deserves all the hate. I think there's a happy medium to be found in both that like, people are just flipping out about it. I thought the shit was funny in 2019. I told you that a lot. How much people liked it, I thought. I mean, people were genuinely afraid that there was going to be a rioting at the theaters before it came out, that this thing was going to cause riots, and people are going to commit crimes like God are our problems, especially the day we're recording this on scene. It just is so much bigger than a movie premiere coming out in 2019. Cheez-Its. But yeah, fun to fun to watch people flip out about, hey, if nothing else, the cultural the culture writ large flipped out about both of those movies for a couple weeks. Yes they did. All right, I'll go quick here. As I round out my recommendations, we have come off October, but I watched every Toby Hooper film he did The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I had never seen his whole filmography. Watch all those Eaten alive, the fun House, great films, watch every George Romero film I had seen just a few. I never seen every. I do not ever remember seeing Dawn of the dead. So there were a lot that I hadn't seen. Love, day of the dead. He made a movie called Martin that is fucking gnarly and gross. Really liked it. Watch every. I am watching every Dario Argento movie because I had only seen Suspiria. That's it. That's the only one I had ever seen. And I'm like, I should probably watch more. Tenebrae was, oh my God, it's a great one. It's about a Mexican crime author visiting Rome. He's got a new book out in the first, and he gets looped into a string of murders. The first murder, the murderer rips a bunch of pages from his new novel, Tenebrae and, like, choke someone to death. It's fucking awesome. Great movies. These are really, really good movies. I sent you the lead song from Tenebrae yesterday. It's an insane. You're like, how is this musical score? Definitely M83, daft punk inspired gasp art in a way. Inspired? Absolutely. Conclave. I'm not going to give any spoilers. I don't know how the masses are going to receive this. I told you, you don't need to see it in the theaters because I don't think you do like, it's just it's not, you know, it's well shot. It's well acted. I you don't need to see in the theater, but I want to talk to you about it so badly because I don't know how this is going to be received. I don't really. Incredibly predictable and obvious. It was a bit of a bummer. I mean, not every beat, but a lot of the beats. It was just two hours, like it was long. It's going to get a bunch of nominations, I bet. But, I'll be interested to see how it's received. All right. Real quick as we end here. Holy crap. Red rooms. It is called Red rooms. This film is directed by Pascal Plante. Plante I never heard of this film. It played in several festivals last year. Did not get a proper American distribution until September of this year, 2024. I don't even think it was released in theaters. I don't know if it was. I rented it on Apple for $5. Pardon me with the names Juliette Ripley, Lori Babin is also in it. Is Juliette so. All right. The movie's about a famous model. Okay. She's very quiet. She's secretive. We're only watching her through observation. She doesn't talk a lot. And we come to learn that she is obsessed with the serial killer who's on trial for heinous crimes. But he has maintained his innocence, so he says he hasn't done anything. Why is this model so curious? She's sleeping in the street, in alleyways, so that she can be first in line to get into the courthouse every morning. Why? What is she doing on her computer every night? What are red rooms? Whoa. Like great movie about surveillance. It's, It gives zodiac vibes. I'm not even kidding. It was so well done. She. This actress is. Juliette does not say a lot. And you're watching her figure things out on her computer. She's very smart on her computer. She's getting into the deep. The dark web. Rather, it's. I love this movie. It will 100% be on my top ten of 2024. Red rooms. Loved it that it like really high recommendation for me. Really liked it. 2024 if nothing else, another aside for me is going to be a great year for thrillers. Scary movie is psychological thrillers. I'm gonna have a lot of those in my top ten in a violent nature, strange, darling, Red rooms. I loved all these movies, like I really did. So that's my last one. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I trying to. Yeah. My top ten as of now is hilarious. Like it's it's I mean mine's a little. I was giving you shit because you texted me something that might make yours. And I was like, anyone who has that needs to have another top ten. And then I looked at my list and I was like, actually, it's not that far off. It might make like it, you know? I mean, it's it's been a tough year, like it's built into what that is. But it's a very fun movie and it delivers a great set out to do. It's true. And I told you, I told you if it's going to circle your top ten, I will rewatch it to gain fresh perspective. The extended cut is actually I can't tell you that's what you told me. We're talking about the fall guy. You talk about the fall guy. I can't tell you. Like what it added. You texted me and you're like the extended go to the fall guy. Thumbs up. And I thought you were kidding it. I was like, are you serious? And you're like, yeah, I had some stuff. And I'm like, what is it? And then I went, if you're serious about this, maybe make your top ten of the year. I promise I will rewatch it like before we record it. I'll give my honest opinion. I remember seeing it being like, oh, this is just like a fun, dumb movie. I did not think it was going to bomb like it just now. I know it's I thought it was fine. Yeah, it was like the first scene was really fun. I went, all right, here we go. Nice one. Or like, I'm into it. I just, I liked it more than I like bullet train. I did too, I did too, you know, it's a summer blockbuster. That's charming. It's fun. It's got a kid. It's got fun, fun, stylized, good action. And, and it delivers just the right amount of substance. I didn't that was another one I like to talk about. Like horror thriller, the Substance. Fucking love. That's probably going to make my list too. So. Okay, cool. Well, I will rewatch it and there's going to be some other things. I mean, this is going to be a weird beginning of 2025. Is going to be crazy because we have the top 25 of the century so far. That's going to come first. And then then we're going to get Oscar nominations early. They're in like early January, so we'll probably do that and then we'll probably do our top ten of 2024. So we're going to go all over the place. Stay tuned. It's going to be it's going to be a fun couple months here at what are you watching. It's going to be a barnburner. It is now depending on how I've organized this episode, you might just be getting ready to hear the Andorra spoilers. I'm not sure. All right. Pause. I'm going to start playing some music. What? What should I play? I'll play. I don't know. You play a song. You got to play a song from the soundtrack. You should do, all the things she said by. Oh. That's okay. I'll do that. I love that song. And that's from such a specific time period of, like, 2002. Oh my God, I didn't know they used that. They used that song in this movie. And when it started, I go, nobody uses this song and it's such a good song. It's a fucking banger. I worked at a movie theater and there was a big screen in the lobby, and sometimes you couldn't help what was on it, and it would rotate like three times a year. And that was the music video they chose one year. So I've heard that song it's playing right now. I'm playing and editing. I'm playing it under this whole conversation because this is the spoiler warning and it just fucking ruined. So every time I hear that now, I'm like, oh, like, I just go back there. But I played it, I played it, I'm a good. That makes sense, though. That makes sense. Like, yeah, I'm going to bring the song up for 20 whole seconds right here. Everyone's going to hear it for 20s because when this song ends, it's spoiler time. So here you go. Tattoo on the side of the man. Running through my head. Running through my head. Running through my head. To my oh my I don't turn running with my head running through my head. I'm just like I'm, I'm, I'm on my. Okay. Music's done. It's getting to these spoilers. Last warning. Here we go. So yeah everything's going along. They get. They're falling in love. It's Mark forgive me Mark. And as Justin Velez Ivan aka Vanya. This guy is. You saw it with a friend of yours who is a father who has a child and, well, you. Why don't you say what he said about him in the middle of the movie? Yeah, in the middle of the movie. I forgot which scene it was, but it was we we've gotten to know vanilla pretty well, and he did something, and my friend just leans over to me and he goes, he's a toddler. That's what he goes. I have a three year old toddler and he's doing exactly what my toddler does. Like, this is exactly what she does, and this is exactly what he's doing. Except he's just a grown man with money. Yeah, like when he hears something he doesn't like. Like he blows raspberries. Like, what? And, you know, doesn't, Yeah. It's just, like, all over the place doing whatever he wants. Clearly has never had any, discipline, never had any struggle of any kind. And what he wants, he gets, if it costs this much money, I don't care. So they're going, they're going, they're going. Let's go to Las Vegas. It's this scene it sounds like really got to both of us. And then they're having a great time. And yeah, he proposes marriage and she thinks it's bullshit. And he it's not. It's actually really sincere. Yeah. And you really believe it. And they get married and everything's going you're like, okay, wow. He buys her a crazy expensive nice ring. And now the movie's here and we're still only, like, an hour in, and then they're at home in this huge mansion and they're having sex, and they stop. And the movie takes a very drastic turn, and it does something. His baker's movies will do this a lot. For the first time, it cuts away from a Nora. We're not seeing her. This is the first time the movie we haven't been with her. And we're with this, like, guy who's trying to baptize like a kid. This is. This is my Karen coming back. This is Karen Coolgardie, and playing Toros, and there's all this stuff going on, and it's. What happens is that there are rumors that have gotten back to the Russian parents that their son, Vanya, has married a prostitute. And you need to go in this because this guy is a fuckup and we need to bring him back because his summer of fun or his season of fun is done. It's not summer because it's snowing. So it's season of fun is done. So they are instructed, this is like a guy who works for the Russian dad, this Taurus guy, he's going to go in and handle it. So he's trying to get to the house. He sends two people, their first one of which is this guy Igor, played by your, Boris off. Who's this bald guy? And these two, like, henchmen aren't talking a lot. But we've seen this before. We've seen what's going to happen when the henchmen show up. So they show up and what unfolds. This is right out of the 19 1970s. This is 1970s cinema, when suddenly your movie that's been coming here, here, club, club, Vegas lights, all this. Now we're trapped in a house for about 30 minutes and we end up leaving, and the movie turns into more or less real time for about 30 minutes when we watch this home invasion of sorts, in which these guys try to, restrain Vanya and another is flipping out. They're screaming. And the whole time I'm watching this, I'm going, this is going to end very poorly. This is going to end in, a Nora dying, although it's a little too early in the movie with Vanya dying with a sexual assault. This is this is going to go all those places, and it never does. No, it never does. Instead, it turns itself into a fucking farce that I was dying laughing at. The tension is always there when you're watching it for the first time. Yeah. You don't know that it will remain a farce. You think it's going to go bad at so many turns and it doesn't. And I'm watching this scene and this was the scene that clicked his entire filmography and a place for me. And I went, oh my God, I'm watching. If it doesn't fuck it up, I'm watching like a modern day masterpiece. This is exceptional filmmaking. It is. I'm scared. I'm laughing my ass off. It's dramatic. The whole time we're getting these really tight close ups of this Igor guy, and he's watching her. He's observing her. And we don't know what the significance of this is. It's a fascinating sequence just right in the middle of the movie. And, and so, like, the idea that we're getting these henchmen that are coming to get Vanya, but then you even have, like, you just cut to the car like that, like we meet Igor. We've seen, the other guy, I forget his character's name. It's like Garnett. Garnett because. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it. But the conversation that they're even having in the car is not menacing that. Oh, this is like this. He's like, oh man, this is going to go really bad. Not not now. Not so bad for you. But me and Taurus, especially Taurus. This is be good. Yeah. He's asking the gate guy. Yeah. Hey, did they get married? Yeah. He's like, I don't know what it's like. Oh, God. Yeah, they've got married. I'm totally fucked. Yes. What do you got? Taurus. Taurus just tried to give a baptism in a church. He's on his cell phone. Blow it up. He's like, what the hell is going on? Right? What? Yeah. So he sends his henchmen over. I'm leaving. I'll be there in ten minutes. Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, the first time you watch it, you're not sure what you're looking at, you're not sure what you're getting. And then. And then, like the way that I remember it just. It dawned on me, which I'm sure it's the same way it did with you, where it was sort of like, oh, my God, this is a farce like this. These are these are too literal, like screw head monkey. You guys that do serve a purpose, but essentially they're not very useful. Igor is. But but he's just, you know, they're he doesn't even know why he's there. He doesn't. It's like his day off or something. He's like, I don't like people. Yeah. Oh, that's. Oh, we don't know that till the end. But yeah, he's like he's just like sitting around shrugging like observing and and like a little nervous or hesitant. But is this guy evil? We don't know yet. Like, we don't know. And I remember when I started laughing, there were a few other people in the theater that were starting to catch on as well, but there was a lot of people that weren't. Same with me. Yeah. And and I think that's probably the very natural. And I think this is where if the movie was ever going to lose you, it would lose you here. Because instead of like we always say, like meeting the movie at its level, right? You're attaching what your expectations are for it. And then when it doesn't do that, you're going to be left a little confused because the movie doesn't ever necessarily really leave this tonal space, at least not for a long while. No. Once. Once this. Yeah. Once this sort of comic mayhem kicks up, it kind of stays there. But there are there are moments when it calms down. But for the most part, this is the new tone of the film. Yeah. If you're kind of going with it now, it's sort of like, oh my God, what is going to happen next? And along the way you're met with more humor, sweet little moments. I was going to ask you, when did it start to dawn on you that this was now we're doing a baton hand off to a romance. So yeah, I all the looks of Igor, this actor, all the cuts to him and they're not like his face can be blank, but. And sometimes he's like smiling and observing. He's afraid of her because she's kicking the shit out of that. But she beats the shit. She, kind of push kicks. Nick in the face clearly breaks his nose. No one is a shit like no one cares. Is clearly for the rest of the movie. Severely concussed. And they're like, just fucking handle it, man. Just be quiet. We're busy. Like, do. So he's like, can I go to doctor and or all this cutting to Igor? And he like, doesn't want to her up and he has to literally like force her. He's just like bear hugging her to the couch because she won't stop moving. And so at some point, he was being a little nicer to her. And I'm trying to think of exactly when, because it was before, like there in scene on the couch. Well, I guess when it was cemented was when, yeah, he didn't, like, have a place to go and she was smoking that like blunt. And then pass it to him and you're like, oh, he's on the couch with her. Okay. But yeah, at some point it clicks over because she's only referred to as Annie the whole movie. And, Annie, Annie, Annie, Annie the whole time. And he figures out that her real name is Nora. And right around the time when he was saying it, because at some point it's like, I like Nora or that's on the couch or something. I just realized I went, oh my God, this film is not about Annie and Vanya. This movie is about Igor and, Nora. And that is what I'm. Jesus Christ, I'm getting chills thinking about this, and I'm like, oh, this is how they met. Like they could tell the story. One day about how she did this crazy thing, and he was a henchman, and that is what I put on. That's what I, the end of the movie put on me, that this is how they met and all the looks and basically like it was the little things of, oh no, I went to my house to get that was my grandmother's medication. Like, I'm not a drug dealer. I don't I'm not like some badass, like, this car is a piece of shit because it's my grandmother's car. Like I live with my grandmother. I'm not like some crazy, you know, Russian henchman. Like, that's not what I do. I was just, like, helping someone out, and. Yeah, it was my birthday, so that scene on the couch was like a really a really, really interesting and kind of amazing sequence of dialog and of acting. Because that's when I think she realizes it too, that, oh, this guy is like actually genuine and sincere, and she's even goading him like, you know, why you wouldn't have raped me? And it's all this like, oh, yeah, mean stuff. Like, she's just mean to him. She's an asshole to him. She has her reasons to be. But I mean that. And then our, our final scene in the movie here is in a really crappy old car in the snow on a Brooklyn street. And this is one of the best endings to a movie that I've seen in a long time. And I long time. And I didn't know where it was going to go. I don't know if you can. And it subverted my expectations in a way where I thought it was profoundly moving, set, maybe, but profoundly moving. And I mean, here it is, because we haven't seen the woman do one thing in the whole movie. I didn't know, I didn't realize this when I'm watching it, but we haven't seen her cry. And when she when that release happened with her, oh my God, I just the movie cut to black if you're watching a, you know, final four and it's the final game, point guard gets a three pointer up and it's in the air, the buzzer goes off. If you want that team to win, you're holding up your hands like, what the fuck's going to happen? Half a second from now? That's what I do. When I cut to black, I put my hands up in anticipation. Like, is this it? Is this it? The silent credits start. I sat through the whole credits. They're fully silent, the credits start, and I just went, oh my God, oh my God, he did it. They did it. The whole shit. It's it, it's it's perfect man. I had no idea where I thought the whole movie was just going to be fun. Him. Yeah. You know, it's not going to last with Vanya. Like he's too crazy. You know? They're not going to be married. Like, cut me a break. But them showing up at the house, the bender meeting, the Russian parents, the. And the Igor now becoming Igor and Nora. Brilliant. Just. This is why it's a masterpiece. If you're following Annie, even when it comes to from the home invasion to the search for Vanya. The thing that you know. Yes, like we were saying, like we all know this isn't going to end well, but the thing that you're holding on to is, is Vanya going to actually man up and actually, like, solidify? He goes, no, this is my wife. This is this. We've got no reason to believe that he will. Right. But Annie does. She's so stand fast in the whole whole entire thing is. No, this is my husband. I'm his wife. Fuck you like we're in love. You don't know what I know when we're on that plane. And she finally gets him to talk about it. He says, of course we're getting divorced. What, are you, stupid? It was all like, let's what? I mean, the whole movie. We know this isn't going to work. Yeah, but yet when we get that moment, it is. It's right through the heart. Like we're just fuck, man. Really? Like, that's the way you're going to do it. We're left is empty. Is she feels even though we knew this entire time this was not going to go well, it doesn't change the fact, but how the fuck Sean Baker managed to, like, still nail that? Oh yeah, that far into the movie. And and yet from there, I'm still wondering what's going to happen next. Yeah, exactly. And now and so for me, it wasn't it was on the plane where, Igor makes Annie a drink and he just hand it to her. That was the moment where I was sort of like, you know, this fucking guy over here has been such a fucking good dude. Yep. All the looks, all the little, like, tension things. There's no way that they're going to do this. I am like, there's no way that this movie is going to do what I hope it does. Like, I just, I just can't I'm letting I'm setting myself up for a big letdown. But then it started happening a little bit more. Then we get to the thing where where, they're signing the divorce papers and Igor stands up and is like, I don't think I don't want to be out of line, but I think Vanya owes her an apology. Yeah. And I was like, I went, whoa, yeah, yeah. I was like, oh my God, they're doing it. There are this is, this is the thing. This is actually going to be a thing. And it doesn't culminate in the way where we get that official like, oh, yes. And because what we get is so much better because by the time we get to that end, you set it perfectly. This is the start of this relationship. Yeah. So this is going to be the crazy story of Mom and Dad. How did you meet? Yeah, well, let me tell you. And that and that's what this is. And and the beauty of the ending is that it gives you the imagination. It gives you the freedom to think about it itself and the fact that all he does like, even because he literally does nothing. Yeah. Even when it comes to the sex that, you know, the only thing that he actually does is try and kiss her. Yeah, yeah. Isn't that whole entire car scene? Yeah. She's she's in control. Yeah. He's not touching her. He's not he he's letting it do everything. But it's not until he, like, grabs her face to try to kiss her as, like being the sweet thing. And we realize that that's. She can't do that. That's too vulnerable, that's too much. And then for her to collapse for so many reasons that the fact that she has not at all had any time for herself to grieve. Yep. The fact that this guy just took her on a giant fucking ride to nowhere. I mean, there's just so much to unpack with that ending. It's so fucking perfect. And that all he does is holder. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Just holds her one of my favorite things. And I was so looking forward to this because I know you don't like movies that have name titles. This is why I love them. Because that was the first thing that clued me into. I was like, they're really calling her Annie a lot. And she says, I want to be called Annie. I prefer to be called Annie. And I'm like, all right, so this is the Vanya, Annie story. And then when it clicked into my head, I went, oh my God, this is the Igor Honora story. I went, this is that's a fucking genius title. Like it's perfect. It's so good that. Yes, this, this I am 1,000% okay with this being the title because they did it. Now try to get Michael Clayton to actually get that fucking urn. Well come on, everyone's calling him Mikey the whole time. And then finally. Oh, don't you even try the intro to Swinton's like Michael Clayton. You've devastated me. How did you do this? And then he leaves and thinks about that. I'm just kidding. Michael Clayton is a good strong like easy rusty James come on rusty James. All right, take it easy. What the hell is his name in Red rocket? What? Mike saber. Yeah. Mike saber. Jesus, bro. Just Google Mike saber. Look me up, bro. I was not picky. He says it's so much on the down low. Like when you started the fight. The one guy. That's one. Sure. Yeah. Per se. He's like he's like bro, what's he up on? And you have can look me up. You don't want none of this, okay? I'm giving her something you could never give. Just look me up. Just look me up. I got hysterical. You're out of your league, basically. And. And Nora, the the reason why it won me over so warmly was that she never knows. The character never knows during that home invasion that she is actually not in danger. Igor even tells her that later, like you were never in danger. We were never going to hurt you. She doesn't know that. And then us. The audience doesn't know that. I can't wait to see this again. Because I'm going to laugh so much more knowing that no, no one's getting hurt from this. They are not here to kill her, to abuse her assault. That's not what it is. She beats the shit out of them. Mostly. No she does. Yeah. When you when you. I won't tell you anything. But when you go back and watch the second time, believe me, all these things that you're talking about was what I was looking for. Yeah. I wanted to start plotting the Igor thing. Like, what was his first thing when he first saw her? Because maybe I missed that. So I'm just tracking Igor. Yeah, pretty much the entire time that he's back. And I got to hand it to that actor because he's. He always makes his presence known, even the first viewing of it. But between him and Sean Baker and the composition of where he is in the camera frame with other people. Yeah. Pay attention to every single time he's in the shot with Annie and Vanilla. Always the third man out. Always. Right? That actor is doing a lot with nothing. Yeah. And, it's really it's really genius. It's really, really great. He's honestly, he's just as perfect in that role as is Mikey Madsen is because I don't know anyone else who could just kind of be so simple in the most beautiful and sincere of ways. And then even when you're watching all the fight stuff, like he's literally all he's ever doing is what he's been told. Yeah, just don't let her leave. Just stop or not, like, punch her unconscious, which he never does. Yeah, yeah. The first physical interaction that him and Annie have is because all the one guy says is like, don't let her leave, and she's trying to run away, and he's just literally, he's like, And he just blocks her. Yeah. And then she. And there's the things that go, you serious? You're in my ways. Like, not don't do that. No, don't. It's great. It's fucking great. You're, Boris Sotloff. I'm sure I'm pronouncing that incorrectly or part of it. I think he gets nominated for this. I think he's nominated for Best Supporting Actor. I do, I think he's that good. The Oscars. Again, when? I don't know, but the Oscars love, someone we have no relationship with. He's been in movies. I looked him up on IMDb. I've never seen any of them, but he's been in movies. But then American audiences don't have a relationship with. Give him a nomination. You got Mikey and him doing press everywhere. Sean Baker I think it's going to happen. I do, that's what when I concealed that earlier, that I think another actor will get in there. I think he will because I thought he was, it's a really beautiful performance of just this open book guy who, like, never lies. He is always telling the truth. He's always when he's asked the question, he answers when he doesn't understand something, he gets the answered kind of. He's like, oh, okay, why? Why did you call me this? And and then that. Yeah. Final thing, final convo with them on the couch. They go to sleep. It was just I never thought it was going to go here. I just I never, ever expected this, that the movie is going to turn into some farce. Of these three henchmen trying to get this new bride and groom back together so that they could take them in the morning to the courthouse to sign divorce papers. You know, you know, what do you know? You know what this movie is. I've been saying it too many. I've been saying too many times. Yes, but I. I call him like I see him. Ladies and gentlemen, Nora is the nick those. What are you watching? Approved note. Perfect movie. Why don't you explain to people what that means? This should be fun. So what I mean when I say this. No, seriously, I want to know. I want to know. Yes. Explain it. Because I'm only saying I'm only making you do this because you have been saying it a lot. You said it like twice a year usually. Yeah, but we've been hanging a lot. But we've been covering better films perhaps. So just explain to people what like the n d y w n p means NP barely. Not that I love that. That's a that's going to go in a t shirt. That's a t shirt. Damn right. When it's okay. So there's a lot of like, you know, perfect movies out there, you know, like I always kind of use The Godfather is like, okay, this is the movie The Citizen Kane, these movies that everyone holds on these pedestals, right? I'm not saying that those aren't, but what I'm saying is, is that when you take a movie, how whatever type of movie it's trying to execute the way that it does it, you have to look at every single performance. So we're just talking about the acting. There is not one off performance the entire way. Everyone is cast perfectly. Everyone's hitting all of their marks. They're all firing on all cylinders. The cinema Tography is there any wasted movement going on with the camera in this movie at all? No editing. Is this all edited? Exactly. Precisely. Perfectly. To fit exactly what it's trying to do? The direction is just on point. The music choices are all interesting. They don't need to be your favorite songs, but do they convey a feeling that when you're watching it, you're like, oh yes, like I this all feels right. The score, all of this. So when a movie is just for whatever genre it's in, because it can be a horror movie, it can be a comedy, but if it is doing exactly what the movie needs to be doing for itself, and everything's operating on all full tilt, all cylinders, you've got a note. Perfect movie. Well, well said. And yes, it's when everything is just working in conjunction with everything else. It's great. So yeah. Good. The coveted. No. Perfect. The coveted. Coveted. Yes it is. No. Perfect. You know, we're recording this in a very specific evening. And I know I've been a little cute, but just just be safe out there. Everyone and all sincerity like we're we will always will be here to talk about movies. That's what this is. This is a safe space to talk about movies. We leave other stuff outside, but I hope hope everyone's doing okay. That's all I can say. Two days from now. I hope everyone's doing okay. And I have no idea where we're going to be at as a country, but, a Nora's a very good movie, and if you go see it, it's going to be two hours and 20 minutes. Very, very well spent. So that's it. Anything else from you? Happy watching and good night and good luck. Happy listening. Let us know what you think of Nick's performance at w I w underscore podcast letterbox x Instagram at w a y w underscore podcast. And as always, thank you for listening to you and happy watching. Bum bum bum. I'm running through my head. Running through my head. Running through my head. To my heart. On the left side. And running through my head. Running through my head. I'm just like I'm on me. I'm on my. I'm on. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex withrow.com. Nicholas Doe still.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at wri w underscore podcast. Next time it's friend of the pod Dan, joining me to step into the world of David Lynch's Twin Peaks. This is not an episode by episode breakdown, but Dan and I did have a lot of fun discussing the show. Seasons one and two. Fire walk With Me and of course, The Return. Stay tuned. Go! I love my. Head running through my head. Running with my head. And running with my head. Running for my head. On the.