136: Waves (2019)

Alex and Nick discuss their love for Trey Edward Shults’ modern masterpiece, “Waves.” The guys break down the film’s use of music, aspect ratios, and colors, the power of Kelvin Harrison Jr. and Sterling K. Brown, the grace of Taylor Russell and Renée Elise Goldsberry, the force of Alexa Demie, text fights, losing parents, finding love, and so much more.
Watch Alex and Nick’s film, “I Am Alive.”
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Transcript

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044441049490444804. Not down 49033. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Swift. Throw in I'm joined by my best man, Nick Doerr. So how are you doing there? Fuck. But. What? You just you know what? I think after 130 plus episodes, I think this is it. I am out of this. I've been called many things in my time. And all of them by you. And, You know what? That this can be. This. It takes the cake. This takes the cake. I don't even remember what part that's from. When you see that. But fuck buttons, it's apparently. Well, I thought that was your, nickname in high school. I guess I was wrong. Oh, I what's up? This makes you look to guess that is the name of the band who performs the song during, like, the dance sequence, where it's, like, moving and moving, and he's going to the party, and he gets in a fight with his parents, and he runs out here and he goes out here. Really good song. This a really good song. That's what the band's name is. And swear to God, fuck buttons. Yep. It looks like electronic music duo Andrew Hung Benjamin John Power. What's the name of the song? Soul surfer? I think it is Surf Solar. Yeah. Surf solar. I could I couldn't think of anything that I saw that that's what they're called. So I was like, fuck, but fuck buttons it is. Oh, man, I oh. How did they how did they find success with that name? Because you can't I don't know. And it was song and Waves like everyone else. I mean, I mean, it's a great soundtrack. I mean, don't get me wrong. God. All right. I've been waiting five years, five years to do this. I love this movie so much. Today we're going to be talking about waves release in 2019, the third feature film from writer director Trey Edward Shults. The first thing I have to say here is that, you know, if you've been with the podcast from the beginning, I rank this one very highly. And our second ever episode, Favorite Movies of the 2010 decade. And if you have not seen this movie and you like movies, then, for the love of God, please turn this off and go watch it if you don't care. And you're like, whatever. I'm just I'm just going to listen because I want to hear two dudes talk about waves. That's fine. But I we are going to talk about the whole thing. And this movie takes some turns that I never, ever saw coming. They they were so impressive to me. Like, I will never forget going to talk about the first time I saw this movie a lot today when I figured out and it clicked for me what it was doing, I went, oh man, this is this is risky. And we're just going to reveal all that today. So because I can't there's no way to talk about this movie without going all the way in. But yeah, Holy God, I'm excited to be here. How do you feel, man? I'm going. I got to get real with you right now. Oh. He hates it. No, no, I, I think this is the very first movie when we started that, reached the mall. Nothing will reach the Exorcist level, but, I mean, there would be a lot of jabs at you towards this movie just because you reference it as many times as you possibly could. So was the handle always bring up waves? Yeah, there's always the ongoing gag is like, well, did waves get brought up in this one? Well, check it off that box. But all that being said, it was all in jest, obviously, but I've only seen this movie once, in 2019 when it came out and I was deeply moved, I loved it. I it was the reason why I was giving you shit, for it was because it was worthy of of your of your hype for it. But I got to tell you, man, something happened to me the second time watching it. It hit so much harder than it did the first year in ways that I, I'm still actually kind of in a beautiful, beautiful way, processing and I had this is a weird segue. I don't know, maybe I'm just in an emotional place right now, but I saw it. Just stick with me. All right, here we go. I saw Terminator two yesterday. Yeah, in the theaters. And and as any longtime listener knows, that it's in my top five favorite movies. Yeah. And I always cry at that movie, but yesterday in the theater, I cried in a way where I've never cried in a public theater quite like this. And it was actually a very tough thing because, it didn't, because when that movie ends there, it ends. So there was no sustain. So I was like, I can't, I can't, the lights can't come on and people can't see me like this. So I kind of like I kind of bolted as soon as, as soon as I left the theater. But what ultimately, what I kind of realize is that if I'm just getting also a little bit deep here is my, my grandma passed away about a month ago, and I've since gone back home to take care of family stuff. I think there was a bit of upon seeing waves. Not that this has anything to do with, a grandmother or anything like that, but family. And in a weird, beautiful way, this movie watching waves kind of allowed me to connect to a grief that I hadn't done yet. And for whatever reason, it came out during Terminator two. Because yeah, because that movie means a lot to me, from childhood. And, and I would watch that with my grandmother and, you know, my mom and my uncle and all these people that I had been like with this past month, I had to keep it together for all that, like I had to be the rock for the family. And waves of getting back to LA and watching waves was a beautiful, sobering, and unexpected way for me to actually be able to let in what I needed to do. And then it just came out during Terminator. But, but all of this is a long way of saying that this this is like the absolute power and beauty of this movie. And not saying that this is a movie that will all of a sudden unlock whatever someone's grief is, but, it's the reason why we do this podcast is because we're trying to talk about movies in ways that affect us, in ways that are, singular, individual, but also universal. Any piece of art that allows you to connect with something real emotionally that's going on unlocking, putting perspective, giving us validation for, being, almost like a friend in need is very, very it's it's it's it's why we do what we do. All this to say is like this second viewing of waves gave that to me. And I am, like, eternally grateful for the movie and eternally grateful for you, because I know that this movie hits you in a very different way, but also in the same way as to why it means something so much on an emotional level. Yeah, yeah, thank you for all that. And this is going to be, you know, we're going to get a little real today because kind of what you described was with this viewing is what happened to me on my first viewing. So we're going to we're going to start there like the a by way of explaining how important this movie is to me and why it's so important. First time I saw this, I did. I didn't know what this was about. His previous movie, Trey Edward Shults, was It Comes at Night, which was just by totally random coincidence, the last movie I saw in the theater with my mom before she passed away. Just like a weird thing that was that was not even in my head when I sat down for waves. I didn't know what it was about, thought it was like some

family drama went to a Saturday 11: 9:16

15 a.m. show and I'll never forget I was seeing Marriage Story at two. That's the one I was looking forward to. That's the Oscar movie. The prestige movie. So wave starts, all right, I don't it's so hard to put this into context for people, and I don't want people to think that I'm, like, reaching in, looking for myself in the movie. But right away, the title card appears and it takes up the whole screen. And I did that with my feature film, weight, the final, the title, the final thing you see is it taking up the whole screen. And I was like, that's weird. Like, that's okay. I didn't even, and wait came out in 20 1516. I made it in 1314, came out in 2015, 16 waves in 2019. For reference, my mother passed away in August 2017 and it was just like horrific and terrible. So, you know, all that, all that stuff. So I'm sitting here and I'm like, wow, that's that's wild. And the movie starts and we're like three fucking minutes into a movie and be above it by Tame Impala starts playing over the opening credits. Now, I had an idea for a movie at the time that I now turned into a feature length script, and in that early notes for the movie, yeah, I had an opening montage scored to be above it by Tame Impala, and the beats of it were so similar to what is going on in waves to where it it, it felt I had like an out-of-body experience and the song started. I was not mad at all. I didn't give a shit. I was like, wow, this is so cool. They did see the day. No second chances. There are no second acts. There is no goddamn motherfucking second place. You better come in to every single match with a plan, because if you don't have a plan, I can tell you right now your rival has a plan. I wish. And it will manifest itself in your defeat. And you will lose. Go up over your head. But they're cutting back between his girlfriend and family and fun and drinking with friends. And I was just. I'm like, wait, this is exactly the same beats that I had. Like, beat for beat. What the fuck is going on here? The way the movie is shot, the camera constantly moving the neon. I was like, it's I already do this. Like, this is, this is like what I use this sort of lighting. And then the movie just keeps going. So that be above it. Thing is, first I'm getting and I'm getting chills, like just talking about this right now. The movie does this three times with three separate songs that I had all written into this fucking idea of mine, that again, I have beefed out into a feature length script. The second time was Florida by Frank ocean. I oh, really? This Christ, I didn't know this. Oh my God, oh my God. Florida by Frank ocean is so important to me. That album is so important to me. It's it's kind of like hidden album endless that you have. It's not hidden. It just wasn't as big as his other two albums. They weren't these like big studio things. I when Taylor Russell jumps into that water and Florida starts and her and Lucas Hedges are kissing, I was like, this is the exact same thing that I wrote with a character falling in love to this song. And then when we got to True Love Waits by Radiohead in the end, I don't think I'll ever experienced anything like that again. It felt like, of course, this did not happen, but it felt like Trey Edward Shults got Ahold of my notes for my screenplay. I was going to write and just borrowed. Some of it went, oh yeah, I'll take that, I'll use that. I'll use that. So everything I'm describing right now is just my personal, very odd connection to the movie that I never could have anticipated. But when True Love Waits started and I saw how he was going to use it, I had already cried like three times in the movie. I it was one of those things, it sounds like happened to you in Terminator two. I'd like had that guttural thing right to stop myself because I was going to start to like, SOB. And, you know, I'm seeing this in Washington, DC, and I remember I just like, looked down and I said, Jesus Christ to myself. And I look over and I'm not making this up. And like, there was no one right next to me, but two seats down was a black guy, probably a little younger than me, and he had tears coming out of his eyes, and we locked eyes and he nodded as if to say, like, I see you. And I nodded back at him as if to say, I see you. And it was. It was just beautiful, like oddly profound moment to where I mean, I was really, really rattled and shaken, and I knew in the middle of it that I it's I was watching one of my movies, one of the best movies. And I'm going to see, I mean, ever. That's just like the weird creative links, the music, the songs and neon, I don't know, there are so many fucking things that happen to characters in this movie that had happened to me in the in the years right before, and then it turns this fucking corner to where now we're going to go watch this dad die and it's, you know, going to be sad, but like, cathartic. And I'd fucking done that. Like I had done that with my mom a year and a half earlier. It in no way carried with it the same level of trauma that Lucas Hedges his character has with it. And you know what his dad meant to him. In the past, my mom and I were very, very tired. So it wasn't like, yeah, it wasn't this a strange thing. But there were tears in the hospital. There was like, oh my God, this has happened to me. It was it was really bizarre. So the first time I saw this, I it felt like an out-of-body experience. I felt like a fucking wreck. I did not I couldn't even pay attention. Marriage story. I went to it. I watch that movie like a month later just to give it a fair chance. I saw waves so many times in the theater when it came out on Blu ray. I bought six fucking copies of this and gave it to everyone I care about. A few people told me, oh, I don't own a Blu ray player, which is hilarious. I gave the person that I wrote the script for, I gave her a copy of the movie, like and beyond that, like, it felt like stuff that we there were certain scenes and waves that I felt like you and I had done, and I'm alive. We had done this thing. Yeah, where someone fucking loses their shit in their bedroom and it's like, really on the edge. We had done the thing where there's this teary confession between a parent and the child, or done like we had just done a lot of. And it was so fucking weird to me. This is a movie written and directed by a white guy who grew up in Florida. In the movie is about a black family. I'll talk about how he arrived at that situation and like it. The family is wealthier, certainly than my family ever was. Like, there's so many things that are different, but emotionally there are so many things that are the same. And I cannot, you know, this is one of the movies I've seen with my wife, Allie, the most. She loves it. She absolutely loves it. She thinks that it talks so well about the black experience, which is just which is really great to hear, because I don't think that's easy for a white writer director to pull off in 2019, you know. And yeah, and I can't watch this without crying, I just can't. It's like T2 like, and I can't what I found is I created a sort of playlist of a lot of the songs in this movie, and I was listening to it and I had to fucking take True Love Weights off it, because I start crying when I hear it. I start crying when Thom Yorke starts and I just start like going back to the movie. So yeah, I'm really, really excited to talk about this because this is it's just I don't know all that to say that this never eclipse to like a big movie. It wasn't nominated for Oscars. Not a lot of people saw it. It didn't make a lot of money. Critics liked it. But like, it's just not something that caught on the way that a lot of other A24 movies have. And I really wish it would. But I recommend this movie to people all the time. What I found is that it plays. It plays with people my dad's age who can. You can really connect to that parent aspect. And this movie plays with Gen Z. They love the music, they love the frantic cutting. Ali works with a lot of young people, you know, 19 year old girls. They've seen this movie and they these aren't people who like, talk about movies and they love it. So it I really want people again to check it out and see it or watch it again. I want people to tell their friends about it. There is no movie since 2019 that has come out. That has meant more to me. There are very few movies in my life that have meant more to me emotionally than this. Yeah, I saw Oppenheimer a gazillion times in the theater that that that's because that's for a lot of reasons. I it's not that it's not based on this emotion that I'm talking of, and it's not making me weep like a baby every time I watch it. That's just not, you know, as good as Casey Affleck is, that's just not like part of what happens in it. Yeah. So it's going to be a lot of fun to talk about. We're going to get into the whole movie, but it's just it's a supremely important movie to me that, there's no better film that expresses who I am as a person or creatively right now than there isn't. There's just not that I, like you said it already, but the the first time I saw this movie, that was the only thing that I couldn't shake the entire time. But you even, like, think about the beginning. As soon as that title card came up with the color and the font, I just I had to do a double take because I was like, all right, that's that's Alex. It just looks like something I do. It's just like something that you do. And and then when we cut to the the swirling camera in the car, you hadn't done that yet. But I was like that is what you would do next. Like like you would start a scene. I'm not saying that you like you're writing for these characters, but I could absolutely see going from that opening in the bike with the lighting in the color, the way it was with the font. Two, because we start in a whirlwind, that's the way that the story is going to go. How would you start in a whirlwind? You would do something just like that and then it just never stopped. Yeah. So it was for me, like, I was like, this is the most Alex Withrow movie ever made that Alex would throw. Didn't make. But what you said two is like, it's not a that's not a knock. That's not a, a discredit to yourself or Trey Edward Shults. What I think it ultimately is, is like, that is another artist out there in the world that sees the world like you do. And I that's happened to me a couple times, but not to the level that this was where, like even happened when we saw Tom Ford. When, when, when he, when he taught. Oh. And I was like turtle animals. Yeah. Oh, man. I, I feel like him like that. Like I. Yeah, I feel like okay, here's another person that it sees things in a similar way. And that makes me feel like I'm not alone. It makes me feel like I'm encouraged to keep going. So it's good when you find these artists that do the things that we see in our own heads, because it doesn't mean that one's better or anything like that. It just means that it can work. Like there's almost like this certain like like, oh my God, like any kind of self-doubt that I have is a little bit removed now because it it's being done here, but you're always going to add your own stuff to it. But it's almost just like this very sort of like, oh, keep going. That's the way that I kind of perceive that. Absolutely. That's exactly how I took it. Like, hey, I'm, I, I have a baton and this is how I'm going to tell my story. If some day in the future you can ever take over the baton and like, try to tell stories this way to go for it. Yeah, that's what it was. It was. It's so odd to see someone because he's not an old guy. He might he actually might be. All right. So he's 35 now. So he is not he's younger than me. And that is absolutely the first time I've seen a person younger than me make a movie that felt like it was for me. I was, yeah, what the hell? And even, like, all right, so we'll talk about I'll bring up briefly shame from 2011 movie. It's very important to me. That's like the coldness, the way it looks. That is for me largely due to creative choices, because every single creative choice in that movie I agree with, there is not much if, if anything in the character construction that aligns with my personal life in that, yeah, the humans they are facing or something that I have never faced in my life from their past, in their present. That's that. That's not it. In ways that, yes, there are things that the characters are facing, not just the guy, not just Tyler, that, honestly, it's more Emily that I identify with and Tyler, Taylor Russell that I identify with that I've gone through. Yeah. So to clarify, you're not a sex addict. I'm not a sex addict. No, there's always time. There's always time. Oh, don't get it. Don't get it twisted. Give it time. A brief plot description of waves. Really hard one to describe in, like, a logline. Yeah. I don't know how you do that. Yeah. A coming of age film about a well-to-do family struggling through the waves of life. It's sort of half tragedy, half warm hug. This movie does not pull punches. It is real as fuck. But it all comes from a place of love. You tell people you're watching this movie, you might get, the movie's so good, but it's so sad. It's so sad and like it is, it does make me cry. But I also think. I just think it's a movie that showcases how a bad decision, how lack of communication, how all this stuff can lead us to a very dark place. But that doesn't have to be how we're defined, especially if someone else did it. It doesn't have to be a defining aspect of our life, but we got to start with Trey Edward Shults a little bit. This movie is heavily, heavily autobiographical, as his first movie, Krisha, was to, born in Texas, is spent a lot of time in Florida. In 2011 and 12, he served as a film loader, a post-production intern, and just a good old fashioned intern and pas on three Terrence Malick movies song, song, Voyage of Time, and The Tree of Life. That is very significant thing that's difficult to it's style, very significant to how he learned how to string a book and how, you know, like, really make that last. How to stretch out a book is what I meant to say. His firts his first feature, Krisha, which I watched two days ago, rewatched, stars his aunt, Krisha Fairchild. It costars him as Krisha son. He wrote it, directed. He shot it for $30,000 in his family home, in his mom's home, using pretty much all his own family members and friends as the cast. It premieres at South by Southwest. It screens at Cannes, wins the coveted John Cassavetes Award at the 2015 Independent Spirit Awards. That's how I heard about it. That is a great fucking movie. I rewatched that today. So the comments, he does a commentary with Krisha, his aunt, and with his mom who plays his surrogate mom in the movie. So it's it's this is a family affair. And you get to hear how Krisha is based on the character is based on, you know, the real life Krisha and her sister, Trey's mom, a sister they had who ended up dying and had just had a lot of troubles. And they're talking about it. You know, his mom in real life is a therapist. The mom in waves is a therapist. He was a wrestler growing up who had a debilitating shoulder injury. Still has a scar for it, just like Tyler did. He had an estranged father that he basically his girlfriend was like, we have to go see him as he's dying. There's a lot of Trey Schultz in waves for sure. But after Krisha, A24 gives him 5 million to make his next movie, It Comes at Night, about a family hiding in a cabin in the woods as a disease takes over the world. Banger cast Joel Edgerton. Yeah, Carmen. As usual. As you know, I never know how to say that. Sorry. Christopher Abbott. Yes, Riley. Leo, Riley Keough and Christopher Abbott in a movie together. And of course, Kelvin Harrison Jr. It is meeting Kelvin Harrison Jr. That Trey Edward Shults has waves that have been written that was written. And then they meet and he didn't he didn't have any, you know, specifics on the race of the family. And because of Kelvin and wanting to put him as the lead of the movie as Tyler, the whole family now becomes black. Yeah. And Kelvin helped in very key sequences in the script, writing about the black experience, but not in an overt way, I think. Yeah, and helping and adding that to the script, like getting Trey being like, please tell me what to like add to this. So I think the biggest one is when Sterling K Brown says we are not afforded the luxury of yes, average like and that's I love that. But yeah. A24 it gives him $6 million to make waves with Harrison starring 6 million not not a lot of money. And before we like get to the movie we're going to talk about some things used in the movie. But yeah, just catching up. I want to hear your thoughts on Krisha, Trey Edward Shults, all that stuff. I love that you love that movie. That's I mean, that it's like as indie as it gets, and it does not look like it was made for 30 grand. Oh, I it's I, I, I mean, obviously you were the one who recommended Krisha to me. I say obviously because you recommend all things to me as why we have the podcast, but that movie was crazy cool. I love my God. It was one of those things where it's like, I just need to see everything this director's done. Yeah, even it it comes at night, it comes at night, it comes at night. I like that a lot too. I did too, you know, horror is not exactly my genre, though I find more and more that I'm liking everything that I see, so I'm just being a hypocrite. That one was very cool because of the human aspect. Yeah, I really I really dug that. I think that you just said that it kind of is like bouncing back in my head so much now is the influence of Terrence Malick. Yeah, because it's very important, particularly in waves. You can see it. Absolutely. The whole movie is like this blend of ultra cool visuals, moving to music balanced with deep sincerity and meaning. And that goes from rage to all the different emotions that it covers. But it's, it's a very like you're balancing that with the coolest looking visuals. Like there's not a frame in that movie that is not stylistically beautiful, but it doesn't like is because, because Terrence Malick and we just did our part on him. The beauty takes over almost everything in a lot of the movies, like if you're looking at those really abstract ones, Tree of Life song, the song Knight of Cups, it's just really about the visual. And then you're like feeding like this emotional component. But would trade does in. This is it's not nebulous, it's connected. But we're still living in that visual in the same way that we live in Terrence Malick's. But it's it's contained into the emotion of what the characters are going through. And we're not detached. We're in it. Yeah, yeah. And it's very, very cool. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that goes even down to the varying aspect ratios in the movie. Yeah, aspect ratios are changing constantly. Don't even get started. Oh that I tell I outline this entire episode is by all the aspect ratio changes. That's how we're going to talk about it and talk about why it looks the way it does, you know, when it's in there. So a cinematographer is this guy Drew Daniels. He shot Krisha. It comes at night. He shot episodes of euphoria, The Idol. Oh rats swarm. Yeah. So I love this guy. I love this guy. He's also shot for Sean Baker, the movie Red rocket and a Nora. The very recent Palme d'Or winner, con, starring Mickey Madison, who? And I think, like, if we do this, I think this is an early contender for maybe our shared favorite movie of 2024. I'm not trying to call it out, but yeah, this thing sounds like my bag. And you are. Yeah, I love him. So I'm like, all right, I'm not trying to get my hopes up. And we love, love her. Yes. Love her. She is so fucking talented. Starring role definitely had my eyes. I really have my eyes on that. So yeah. Same cinematographer. That makes me really happy. But every component of waves, every film component is used to heighten the story, which is a very clear, cohesive story. It's not about, oh yeah, oh no to heighten the emotion of the characters. So cinematography, when we start, we're all the way open. And pardon me if I get some of the numbers wrong. I don't know, like the exact, you know, delineation, but this is pretty much 185 where when you should have no bars on your TV anywhere, you can see everything in the world is wide. It's open. That's how we're starting. When we're in that car and they're singing and I'll go through all the changes. But yeah, even down to that shit, he's developing a language and I've heard some people even describe this as a musical was like the editing pattern. Yes. Yeah. I was going to bring this up to sound design. I didn't even know this. The sound designer is Johnny Byrne, who just won an Oscar for doing the sound for The Zone of Interest, and I went, oh, that guy did the sound for waves. This makes so much sense because, like, I'm obsessed with, I have there's no official soundtrack for waves, but I've listened to the songs 39 songs in waves, 39 songs use, and got a minimal but amazing score from Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, which I listen to all the time. And there's shit that happens in the movie during that score that it's not in the score. And I'm like, oh, that was Johnny Bird. That's like an actual sound design. So it's all of this not to be like, look how fucking cool this shot is. Like, look at this primary colors. Look how good Frank here, how good Frank ocean sounds. It's all to put you in the headspace of these characters. Well, that's exactly servicing them. Yeah, yeah. And and but what's amazing about it too, is that all of the music, it doesn't feel like one song's out of place. It's like we are branching different genres of music, but the one thing that they all do contain is that they're all, for the most part, modern for the time. So it's all cool. Like they're like, there's there's no song in here that he's using that is a different tonal retreat from the movie. So you've got all these genres, but they're all matching the character's head spaces. So we're all in it with their. But they, they all feel like they belong in the same movie. Yeah. Where. And I'm only bringing this up as a way. Just a of a comparison is let's just use the one movie that we always talk about Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for this example where we're using that same year, same year came out the same damn year, crazy year for me. I was like, what the hell? It's how the hell movie knock out a Tarantino movie for me. I'm like, it's okay. Good. I just saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood in July. Best movie of 2019. Moving on. And then this fucker comes out of nowhere, What a year. God, I love what a year. We got to do a part on that. Yeah, but like I've always said, whenever I. What, I can't unsee or unhear any song from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood without thinking about the visuals that he attached it to in that movie. Yep. But that movie is not meant to be contained in that way. So he's using all the songs from the time period, but it's almost like each one of those musical numbers becomes its own scene. Yeah. Where in this one, it all feels like it's a part of the same movie, right? Even like the last scene in the movie, we're jumping ahead with Radiohead. That scene ends the movie. Yeah. It doesn't feel like we have jumped into, montage. It doesn't feel like we've departed from the natural progression of the way this movie moves the waves, if you will, the waves. But that's just, to me, one of the coolest parts of this soundtrack is that it never once steals the scene, and it never once, it doesn't deviate from the, where he wants the heart of where you're feeling to be. Yes. I mean, you can't talk. No one can talk about waves without talking about the music. Like I said, 39 songs used. I didn't even know this. He. In 2019, when the movie came out, Shults himself did an annotated playlist with each song describing why it was used and how it was used in the movie. Still on a 24 website. Brill. I got this in order, and this is not like a long thing. It's like a quick, tight paragraph for each song and it's just great. Also, this is actually a great example for filmmakers like Jesus Christ. That's exactly where I was just going to go back there. I'm just going to say I was going to say I forgot to mention in the Krisha commentary, he is talking to us, the the filmmakers, a lot, and he's going, this is why I change aspect ratios. Here's what lens I'm on. Here's how I shot a movie for 30 grand in my mom's house. And it doesn't look like I shot a movie for 30 grand in my mom's house. So yeah. And then still with waves, he's doing that as well. So it's very, very important for a filmmaker. Yeah. You can't teach this type of chemistry. Goddamn right. You could theoretically. And I know a lot of people think like this, but say that you just have in your head like this a soundtrack and you don't necessarily know what the story is, but you know that each song is linked to itself in a in a linear sort away. You've got your broad foundation for a movie here. This is how I've outlined every movie I've ever written. This is exactly it. Yeah, like you, there's absolutely if this is what's in your head, but you don't know if this is how it can or should come out, just do it. The rest will follow you. You've got more than you think. You already have. Yeah. I mentioned in the warrior episode, like, there's all the music used in my film. Weight is all in original score, but that that was not what you know, I had other music and about today by The National, that song is Wait and Then Wait by M83. You put those together in my head. That's what movie comes out. But there were so many songs. There's a club scene that I had. Yeah. So that is essentially and that is what I did with the screenplay. I'm talking about my most recent one, and it was like he just borrowed a few songs that I had already, like outline. That's what it felt like he had done with waves. Here's what we have. We have some Animal Collective, Tame Impala, Frank ocean, ASAP Rocky, Kendrick Lamar, what what what I heard Tyler, creator, Frank ocean, Amy Winehouse, Kanye West, Kid Cudi, Scissor, Chance the Rapper, Radiohead and Frank ocean. I love them, I look at those are just a few of them. You you sent me. There is a Spotify playlist that basically covers all of this. Some kind soul did that and it's really nice. They put them all together and they're all just right there. It's a great, great sound. I've been listening to it all week. I brush my teeth to it. Good. So I that's how I'm surprised you didn't see fuck buttons on there. Surf soul or baby. All right. So we're going to get into I mean here. That was a long preamble. That's like a 40 minute preamble. Before we start talking about a movie. We're done. How important it is. Yeah. Thanks for listening. To be hilarious. Slept all right. The movie is split up into two distinct chapters, though I so appreciate how there's no text chapters. It could just be like part one, Tyler. And it doesn't do that. It's it's changing chapters with colors, with, character switches, with music, with aspect ratios. And yeah, when we begin, it's Animal Collective's Florida playing just Nats cameras spinning around. And then we're in this montage. Tyler's wrestling be above it. The camera tilts, whips down, whips up. We zoom in, there's Krisha playing the teacher. He's lifting weights. Got to be above it. Got to be above it. Running with a 45 pound weight. There's vanilla sky green field. Alexis is girlfriend is practicing. He's meeting mom. He's meeting dad. Notice the contrast between those two interactions. All this is happening. We're going, we're going. Emily, the sister's chilling in her room. Tyler's room. Primary colors. Got to be, but got to be above it. Then we just go to the beach. Boom. Oh. Alexis is dancing now. It's night. They all go into a party. Tyler jumps onto a couch, and then now they're in the back of a car. It's just crazy. This might be my favorite portion of the movie. Are these first 7.5 minutes when you are not given a chance to breathe and you do not know what's going on, and you're like, but you know, yeah, you get it all makes sense. It's all cohesive. But you're like, I'm along for this ride here. Bring on the waves, baby. You you understand what his life is in these 7.5 minutes? Right away. Right away. And I love that you brought up earlier, like, the, the aspect ratio of it, because it is a his life is wide open, wide open. This is what it is. But this is his potential. This is his future. This is what he's doing. He's a good kid. And it's a whirlwind, though. So that's why we were getting that frenetic energy is that his life is busy very, very young. Yes it is. He is someone that has a very strict dad. We get that off the bat. We like him though, too. So it's a it's a great scene because exposition wise we understand this is what his family is like, but we already know what his dad's like, what his mom's like. We don't know the sister yet, but that's intentional. We're. Yeah. She's just we really don't get to know her in this first part at all, which I did. I fucking did it. I'm alive with Mickey's character like we did. Oh my God. Whatever, dad. And but by the time that this montage is over, it's so crazy because without a lot of dialog, but very important dialog, we know what we know. We get what we get, but we understand it all. And I don't know, man, like if you need to cover some ground and you need to get a lot of things across to an audience, like in under ten minutes, watch waves, you'll you'll figure it out even though the music's going the whole time. And even if the first time you meet, we see his mom. You know, she's, like, feeding the dogs and stuff. How's your dad? Good on beat. You know how you feel? It's very warm. She is. If we're going back to Malick, she is grace. She is the grace of the family. And he's walking up the stairs. Sterling K Brown comes out. How's school? And he. And he says, good. And, you know, you just hear off camera, you know, there are other words in linguist language used to talk to your father. And it's like it was good right away. That guy's nature. We know right away who the fuck. So it's this war of nature and grace and you're like, okay. But yes, a lot going on. And of course, I like to watch movies with subtitles on it. This is a good one to have subtitles on the music is going a lot. Yeah. So he, the dad says to him in the beginning, in that first conversation when they're talking, Tyler goes, you know. Yeah, practice ran late, so I'm just about to start my homework, and the sun's going down, so I'm putting it together. I'm like, all right. So it's like probably late. They're going to have dinner. And then the dad goes, all right, just remember I need you down here by nine. And Tyler goes, yeah. And we learned later that he works for his family as trade it like he does, like, you know, computer stuff for his family. So not only is he busy with practice with school, with his girlfriend, with social media, he's got to work for his fucking dad, too. You got to be down there at 9 p.m. to put in some hours of, And this is all communicated so well without any exposition. We're just going. Going? I love when we get to the, you know, when we're in the car and they're all singing and shut the fuck up over and over now, like, shut the fuck up. That happened because Trey was in the car behind them. It's like three in the morning. All the actors are tired and he calls up direction in a walkie. And Alexa, to me, the great Alexa to me just goes, shut the fuck up, Trey, she said to the director. Did they all just start chanting it? And then they include it in the movie? So there's a lot of improvised stuff that happened. Kind of like a forced situation that happened. A lot of what Malik would do when her and Taylor Russell have that impossibly warm, beautiful moment where she's just putting lip gloss on her. He set up the scenario and put them in that bathroom together. They made that all up. That was just them. I love that he's constantly putting himself in those scenarios, in those situations I already mentioned, you know, you know, dad is nature. Mom is crazy. We're going to kind of learn that Tyler is nature as well, and Emily is Grace. Tyler's motivated a lot by like, you know, and I love they go to the church, Tyler's sleeping and just that look that Sterling can give it to. Dad's giving him, like, you know, wait. Wait till we get out of here. You're look, you're like, oh, man, this is this is tense. The arm wrestling is improvised. They did that like on take four. You know, this is where we're really meeting people. We're being like Kelvin Harrison Jr as Tyler Sterling Kate Brown as dad slash Ronald and Renée Elise Goldsberry who just has my heart as Catherine aka mom. Taylor. Russell is there as Emily, but they're really not paying any attention to her. Even in this diaper scene. The whole family just ignores her. There. She's like, well, I have my I have my thing. And they're like, that's more important than your brother's. Me. And no one really like, cares about her. Brother doesn't talk to her. The dad does not talk to her. The only person, it's just the mom. And she, like, kind of scolds her a little bit. So we're like, oh. And then, yeah, that arm wrestling is just improvised. And what I got from the commentary is it's Sterling K Brown would fuck with Kelvin a lot and kept calling him Sisqo for the hair. Oh, hair. It's that blond. Would just mess with him like poke fun at him. And I love that. But you can feel that tension. It's like this tense under like cool kind of. But there's there's this. Yeah. There's a lot of tension right underneath the surface. And Tyler is just one step away from flushing it all down the drain. Whatever that step is, he's in his father's eyes. He's one step away from, you know, could he get in trouble with a girl? Could he mess up his shoulder? Could he, you know, have a few too many drinks one night? Any one of those things, he's he's kind of close. And you can tell the dad has his eye on it. Just right. And it's like a hawk. Like he. Yeah he is. Yeah. He is in but really quick to also because I don't want to forget this point to the point of how you were saying that both the father and son are nature and the two women are, grace. Even in that diner scene, they're positioned opposite each other gender wise, and they're both wearing similar colors. Oh, interesting. They're not exactly the same, but the men are wearing blue or different shades of it. And, the women like, Taylor's in the black dress, but there's red on it and the mother's in red, so you can kind of just see, like, costume wise, what we're trying to say here in a not so in a very, very subtle way. But that's the I love that aspect because it comes back later when the dad admits that he doesn't spend enough time with the daughter because his and Tyler, he's made his son the project like that. It's his focus, too. That's tunnel vision to a disastrous degree, potentially, yes. Yeah. And and you can tell like he means. Well, that's what's so great about Sterling K Brown's performance, which I just we haven't even gotten into how good it is because we're just getting we're just getting into it. But yeah, you even get everything with that opening line is that is that there's other words to use in the English language. Talk to your father immediately, like when he says that I don't know how or why, but this is the way that I took it, where it's sort of like, oh, okay. I'm not like, you're not to be crossed. But I also felt the love. Yeah. Like there is he's he's fucking with some little bit. He's not like, would you say son, you know exactly like there's. Yes. But even in your opening sentence is as the audience is going to receive you, you immediately understand, oh, he's tough, but there's love. And and then every scene kind of furthers that. But yes. Yes. Yeah. The I mean no, they're just in the diner given this and I love you know, the movie will take these also just like quiet moments like that stuff of Tyler playing piano and we get another, you know, like his dad's making him run it, what, 5:36 a.m.? He's working for his parents. He's charming his girlfriend's parents. He's a busy guy. Like that whole piano thing is just Kelvin Harrison. It's just him. Like you just did it. He's very. I guess he's like a musical prodigy. I love that, like, here to sit here and play something, get this little montage out of it. And now we're really in earnest meeting the great Alexa. To me as Alexis, I. I love their young love so early in the section. Just like I love that Taylor Russell is. Emily has these braces on. Her hair's like straight. She hasn't come into her own yet. And you know, no one's paying attention to her, of course, but the relationship that Alexa, that Alexis and Tyler have, you get it right away. And they they worked on it as actors together behind the scenes. Like they worked on the codependency of this two. They worked on the fact and agreed that Tyler is a narcissist and cares about himself first. And all of that really comes through. It's like they were doing what good actors do, reading the script and seeing it. What isn't mentioned, like Alexis is never at one of his wrestling meets. I think that's very intentional. It's yeah, he clearly does not know anything about her friends, which is kind of what leads to the confrontation in the garage. All of that is varied. They're setting they're planting the seeds for that now, just like he's sneaking his dad's pills. He wins a wrestling match. We're like, Okay, so sneaking pills, they're just these little things like nothing that is too necessarily alarming. But you're like, okay, okay. And then, God, that first wrestling match. Geez, I love the, the camera spin, like, around the coach, Bill wise, who's also in Krisha and I just it you just sit there. You could tell like the cards. The coach is tough. You know, there is no goddamn other fucking second place. I love it so much. But, like, what a thing where he wins his match and we like crash. Cut to him flat on his back. Sterling K Brown arm around him, teaching him like your son just won the match, but he's teaching him how he could have won it faster. You see, if you would have done what I taught you, you would have had him earlier. And you're like, goddamn great. You give this a rest. Like it's crazy. But yeah, he picks him up and he's like, your shoulder. Good. It's good. All right. It's good. Like everything's good, but. Clearly the dad wants the best for him. But as the mother will point out later you pushed him too hard and you pushed him to the point where this kid did not feel comfortable coming to you that his shoulders messed up, which he should have, that that's just, you know what, my shoulders messed up. Probably because you made me do, like, fucking four days. Like you have me running at 6 a.m.. You, me lift weights with you twice a day, and I practice. And after my meets, we got to do it. Yeah. My fault. My shoulder got exhausted. He doesn't even feel comfortable saying that. This is a great example of how a character does something in a movie that ultimately, like I would deem is dumb. It needs to be just like there's so many ways that you can understand why he doesn't do that. Yeah, he he doesn't he can't go to his dad and admit weakness. He can't admit weakness to himself. And he certainly can't do it to his girlfriend, who is probably the one that would be the closest that he could. Who? Yes. Who he is ignoring from the beginning. If you go back and watch during that opening montage, she sends him a text. It says Poppy question mark. He ignores it and posts a snap of himself. And when she's saying that, she is presumably going to say I'm late because that's what she's getting at in these opening minutes and he's just ignoring her. She's like, do you have time to talk? Can you, get my wrestling? So yes, yes, yes. He does not want to admit that to himself. No, he he is a very closed off person. Yeah, probably just because of the way that he grew up. But because of all that, when you do have an injury the way that it is, I don't for once I can be like, man, why didn't you tell somebody like, like you needed to, but you understand why he wouldn't. That's all that I care about is like, you have to make it make sense. And it's a great example of how someone does something really stupid. And. But you understand why in that scene with the doctor. So brilliant. Because we also I'm not going to put too much stock in this, but these characters are 17 and 18. And his response to being told, like the doctor, that that actor is just so good and it's all one shot when he's getting this news and Tyler does not fucking get it. Like do. No he does. Wrestling is done. Like you're going to be lucky to just have use of your arm and shoulder and, you know, can we put it off until after the season? No. Like this. This is done. He actually has to be 18 because the doctor didn't share the news with his parents. So. So he's 18. He's trying to figure it out on his own, and he's just like, okay, if I ignore this, I'll be fine and then it'll be fine. We'll get surgery after the season, I'll be fine for college. And he's so he's got this like 18 year old mentality of, no, I'm just going to push through. Okay, now I'm finally making time for my girlfriend and she's telling me she's pregnant. You know what? I know what to do here. I just I do a little sympathy, I tell her and it together. But what I'm telling her we're in together is not. I'm here to support you. It's said I'll drive you to. Yeah, and pay for the abortion. But that is what I'm in here together with you with. I'm not in here together for what's going to happen. So. Yeah. And then to go back to the parents when they meet in that kitchen, there's so much already there when they go in for that kiss and she's like not really feeling it from him. And that's something they worked on too. They really worked on it. Like they're at a point in their marriage. When she is able to identify the uses to heart, he ignores the daughter. He pushes the son to heart. And I love that that's all baked in. Maybe this is something you only spot if you well, you've only seen it twice. I've seen this movie two times 30. I know I've seen this movie more. I've seen how many stocks I really have in stock. Yeah. You are a 69. God, that's for sure. That's for sure. What a summer. It's for God, I love it. That was a good pool, man. Thank you. But I love that it's already. It's already there. It's already baked in. But, yes, Tyler learns his wrestling career is over. He gets hammered, drives drunk, pounds burgers in the tub. Just a really nice, really nice thing. Like I was friends. A lot of wrestlers growing up and I boxed. I know all about cutting weight. And when you get that, like Foxcatcher does that too. Like when he just pegs out, cut, I love that. And then we fade down or we go to black and when we open, that was worlds a little tighter. Now we got bars on the top and bottom of the screen. We're like in 240 aspect ratio. And I love that. Yeah, this is really like the sister is she's like what's going on? Like, you know, pounding on the door and stuff. But we don't see her. We just hear it from him. And yeah, now with his world a little tighter now things are starting to get. Now the pressure is starting to come on. This is when he has. We got to talk about this convo he has with his dad when he's doing the work. Oh, that is so like that scene gets to me so much because the dads coming in and Sterling K Brown said a lot on the press tour that not only is he never played a father like this, he had never seen a movie about a middle to wealthy class black family where their race is never talked about or it's not talked about like how they got their money. Here's the family that exists in America, and I love that. That's one of my favorite aspects in the movie too. But you know, the this dude works Ronald as a worker. He's got some sort of construction company. He it sounds like runs the business or runs the books for his wife's therapy. There's something there's a lot like going into it. What I think Tyler is doing is transcribing notes, maybe from patients or something, and the dad just comes in and is immediately like, don't do it this way. Like, he's such a micromanager. That's how I would refer to him as a boss. He's like, you can't. He's not letting his son live his life. But then he's like, you have it easy. You think that I'm tough on you? How about I take away like that little girlfriend? You hang out. How about you don't go hang out with these friends? You're the one I didn't want you to wrestle. You're the one who said you wanted to wrestle. I didn't. You're the one who said you wanted to work for me. And it's so dislike gaslighting and manipulative. Like, imagine if you're wealthy. Dad is like, yeah, I mean, sure, go get a job at Taco Bell. But you could do that. But it's going to spend. It's going to waste so much time. Why don't you just, like, work for me? And then years later, you're blaming it on him? You're the one who wanted to work for me. It's. It's so manipulative in. And the way, like, hits him, I think is. I think it's important. It's not. You know, I don't want to put too fine a point on it, but he had some kind of heart in the chest and, you know, look at me. And it's a really, really intense scene. It is really, really feel that. Yeah. Yeah, it's dangerous too. Like, it really feels like you could just pop off at any moment. I love that scene. And I think one of the the aspects of that scene that I like the most too, is the lighting. I was just going to say the colors are like for like, in a nighttime interior office computer scene. That does not strike to me like amazing colors. It's beautifully lit. It's beautiful. It. Yeah. But it also lends itself to that intensity because it is actually a very ease. Like, I feel a lot of calm when that with that lighting on. So you never feel like like when because when because you match that kind of ease in the way that it looks with the intensity of Sterling K Brown, it weirdly comes off in a way where it's not too intense to where you are pulled away from what he's saying. You haven't turned your back on that farther. You never once really feel that way, but it's sort of like lulls you into that, into that feeling where when he says, look at me, it is you. You are trapped there with him. That scene could have been lit in so many different ways, like to choose that color. It really does pop. For that reason, I I've watched it a few times leading up to this to prepare, and that one, it just always pops out of me. And the kind of the the look that Kelvin has. I also want to say like this. You watch interviews with this guy, you watch other performances. Tyler is not Calvin Harrison and this isn't even how he talks. He is much more like theater kid voice in real life. He's it's a little higher pitch. He's he's very goofy. He's extremely goofy. On the commentary with Trey Edward Schultz. They are clearly very, very close. And he's just making jokes all the time. Like movie was almost called tides, y'all. It's like it's funny, like he's funny. And so it really makes me appreciate what he did with Tyler and like the disdain in his face in that scene when he's looking at his dad like he looks disgusted, but also like, what is he going to do? He can't clap back. Like, yeah, this dude. I mean, Sterling is Jax in this movie. Like the dude got cut out. It was I mean cut. And when he put when he's in church, you I can't tell that he's jacked, man. As soon as they're working out, I'm like, Jesus. It's so. Yeah, it's really, really intense. Now we gotta get to shoulder snap moment. Oh and you know the score. And we're just with him. And he gets up and it should be over. And it's not. Then he just gets slammed down again. The way we stay with him and Sterling runs over. And man that cut to her cradling Tyler's head. And it really she looks angelic like the mom does. She just looks graceful in the locker room and the dad looking at him, literally shaking his head in disgust like your son is injured and he's like, this is pathetic. It's, it's just so powerful. It's so telling the the in the moment where he actually gets injured, there's like a moment because there isn't really like a said, like snap. Like what you were saying, but like, there is a clear moment on his face where there's a level of pain that's happens. And he's setting it up with the way the camera's angled, with the way it's moving, that, you know, it's happened. But what I love is that when he gets him down, the takedown and then he moves him for the pin, it it does like this when he when his arm moves, he's trying to not. But you could probably tell that it's so easy to move this guy's arm because there's just nothing there. But it happens in such like a very smooth way where I was like. Like, you can just imagine, like, I got nothing here. Yeah. And the way that the camera captures that, it it it it's that surrender. It's the surrender to the pain that's just encapsulated so well through camera in performance. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Very well said. I mean he was a wrestler so he wanted to get these scenes right. And there's two wrestling scenes and he gets them right. Like they look really, really good. Yeah, they look great. Tyler doesn't really know. I mean, after he gets injured now that the focus can't be on him and his wrestling and his training and got to be above it, got to be above it. And like I mentioned, we haven't seen Alexis at any of the meets. It's it's really now we're really learning you know that she's pregnant officially. She's hinted that I feel late and because now they're back on that bench where they were dancing before that picnic table and it's, you know, in the water. And this is gorgeously lit too, and you're really seeing this like 17, 16, 17 year old girl being like, I know you're going through a lot, but like, I need you right now. And she's and everything, all the confidence on his face. We're in this together. Like making out in the water. It's all coming from a place of the editing is so good because immediately after the love there boom, jump cut in the car to the abortion clinic. There has been no talk about it. No. Like, what are we going to do? I don't know, none of that. It just cuts and that really you get some insight into his intention there in the previous scene that, oh yeah, I'm here for you. In this way I will dry you. I will wait for you. I will pay this. Here we are. And there's one thing I want to point out there, though, in this scene right before, when they're on the beach, her orange fingernails. I love it there. I love it, too, because it's so distracting, but it's so cool looking that it doesn't. It doesn't it weirdly doesn't take away from the movie at all. But it's one of those things where you can't not look at it and it's a yeah, oh, look at that. Well, I mean, how are you going to how are you going to talk about that in the past? I have a poster of waves. I have a poster, not the official poster. I have one that I bought from website. And you can they're in the water. It's that scene in the water. And she has her hands around like the back of his neck. And you can see her nails, I love that. So yeah. So it's such a it's again, those cool visuals like, it's, it's not betraying the movie, but it's adding to it in a way where it's just sort of like, man, look at that. It's just I'm never not going to like, not think of that color and how and beautiful and cool it looks. But yes, the, Well, I guess I'll just start this next scene. Let's talk about the security guard. I love this guy. So good. This really good laugh. These people are crazy. I love him, like, so much. Just, the like. Like I'm so sick of this shit, miss. And his voice is great. It's it's a great monologue because he because he even talks. He's like, listen, I've seen these people come in here and they'll say that they'll pay for your baby and they'll take it. They won't. Like he's laying it all down. He goes, I'm here for you, but be there for me. Don't mess with these crazy women like, yeah, don't see it. There's such like it goes to everything where he's just letting them know. All right, everyone, here's the deal. This is how deep it goes. I'm on your side. But do this for me. It's. Yeah, it it's great. I love that I. This is my favorite part of the scene is. Yeah. Yeah. Because it gives you a little laugh and you're like, oh okay. Maybe this I don't know it. It's kind of teeing you up like, ooh, is there danger out there? So Alexis comes out. Don't know what's happened. They run out. And then of course Tyler it's the only time we hear, you know, racial language used in the movie. And he is abused racially in the parking lot by said crazy woman. So that puts him in a state of complete rage. And he's rage and get in the car. Now he's yelling at Alexis. So now they're like, now he's not thinking about the thing he does. He probably thinks she went through with it. So he get in the car. This is fucking remarkable. Disproves just what a force in nature Alexa Demie is. This is Alexa. Demi's first day, first scene of filming was in the car and they of course they are told to argue and there's some beats they have to hit. There's some words, but a lot of it in terms of where they go is up to them. So her slapping him was not scripted. Him spitting on her was not scripted. So you see these kids, these actors playing, these kids just letting go and getting into this horrific argument that is very difficult, I think, to watch. But we love our movie arguments on what are you watching? This is a great one. It's so good. And when he you. I feel for her now so badly every time I watch it once you know where the movie's going. She's just advocating for herself. Like for her life. Like she's. She's a kid herself. And she goes, yeah, I love what she goes, yeah, that's your opinion. Thank you for asking for mine. Earth. I mean, there's a who's a scream like a an enraged timber in her voice that she can get to that I that is so authentic to me and just so real. And I remember seeing this. This is my first exposure to her. I had not seen euphoria yet. And I went, I don't know who the hell this actor is, but she she's just doing it. And I, I've been in love with her acting style ever since. She's not in a lot. But this euphoria, oh my God, I just. And I love this argument so much. It's very, very difficult. But even like she gets out of the car and then, you know, begging to get back and she won't like just go, just go. And in the circumstances of everything, the stakes of everything, she's pregnant and Jesus. And don't forget about the coolest part about this scene. The see, the sound, the seatbelt. This was real. God really hits. Yeah, he had really forgotten to do it. And he. Because his arm was in a sling, he could not get it and he just stayed in the scene. He just saved it. And he was so frustrated because that was not supposed to happen. And you think, and that's heavy to all of us for like, what the fuck? Just stop. Yeah, I love you. Oh, I love it. I love when sound design, even whether it's intentional or not, interferes with the scene like this. Because it's that constant ding ding ding while they're having this argument. Oh. I couldn't do it. I didn't do it. You mean you couldn't do it? I don't know anything. You do well, you just do. Well, we were there. We couldn't get away with them. Mean. I'm just. I don't want to be confused what I'm talking about, but we need to just talk about it and then talk about. Why are you yelling at. I'm not yelling at you. You're yelling at me. I'm not yelling at you. If you are. Oh, I'm not, I'm not. It just brings the reality into it so much more. And it's. And it makes you feel anxiety because, yeah, you're trying to like nature of us as an audience members. Like we're trying to just listen and absorb what's happening, but we're having this noise distracting us. But we also realize that it's a it's a real sound and it's taking away, but it's, it's it's interfering with everything. But this whole entire scene is about interference. It's great. Love it. Yeah, yeah, it really is. And there's so much going on the way you said that he's busy before. There's always so much going on with him. Like his shoulder hurts. He just got called a terrible word multiple times. Fucking seatbelt buckle. Like my girlfriend's pregnant. Shit. She didn't. She didn't go through with it. What the hell? Yeah. You really get all that chaotic energy and just, you know, punching the desk, punching the seats. Oh, man. It's very, 17, 18. It's just all very. Yeah. Right there. But then, you know, he's had a fight with Alexis, his first big fight that we've seen. And so things are getting a little smaller. We get a little smaller. We have another aspect ratio change now in about 266. And this is when you know he's on the beach Singing Kendrick I love he had to learn that whole thing I love that. And you just kind of it's fading out. He's drunk taking pills having hits joints. So he's like cross fading out. Oh very very spiraling spiraling. He's. Yeah. He's a spiral. He's twisted. I love this friend. Calls him out you're twisted man. And then when he puts his head out of that window Jesus. I thought were going to get a hereditary situation. Hereditary came out the year before. Thankfully, no. And then. Oh, man, he's just sitting there crying like they're throwing up in the toilet. And when Emily, the sister Taylor Russell comes in her first moments. So beautiful. Really her first moment because he's just saying sorry. Okay, sorry. And she's so sweet with him and so tender. And she's like, it's okay, it's okay. It's really the first time I've ever seen anyone be, like, overtly nice to him and oh my God, I love it. And this is really this is the only time we get to truly see them be brother and sister together in the movie. It really is. And it makes you think at least makes me think that they've never really had a relationship. Yeah, yeah, I think everything's been about Tyler, which, you know, the, the younger child who maybe not a lot of attention is paid to because the older one is a lot noisier. Ding ding ding to my childhood. So again, there's a lot of stuff in this fucking movie that I'm relating to. Yes. And and so you can even see that even though she doesn't seem like she's upset by she's she's not acted out in this way of, but for her to have that kind of compassion is, and as we get to learn later on, that's just kind of who she is. Can we get to the texting scene? That's next. Oh, my God, it's this scene. Difficult for me to watch it. It is. It's fucking realistic. I, I don't I don't know how you can articulate or express through cinema the feeling, that claustrophobic feeling of when you are in a text fight. Oh my God. Because the world around you ceases to exist. Yes, you are completely confined in your emotions and to the size of your phone screen. And there's there's no there's it's unlike anything you've ever experienced, like, I think I think anyone who, who's anyone who's been in a text fight with somebody. Sure, sure. You you are you are fixated on the screen and what that next person is going to say. And then unfortunately for iPhone users, it's the goddamn bubbles. Waiting, waiting, waiting for fucking bubbles. And then when they go away or you're like the fuck, but you. So he is, he is having this text fight in his small room, and it's like it gets blurred at times, like the screen is a little. Oh, he I don't know how. I mean, he must have had the idea as the director to be like, I'm going to create the feeling that you get when you are in that kind of claustrophobic space in a text fight, and man, he nailed it. I don't know, I don't know exactly how you plot that out, like, visually like, but he did. And my hat's off to him because that is so fucking cool. And it's exactly what you said. It's it's oddly one of the hardest scenes in the movie to watch. Yeah, it just feels so real. You can really feel her voice. Alexis. Like, behind those messages, him spelling stuff wrong and. Yep. You know, trying to call. She won't answer. And then the hammer of like, we are done. I am blocking you. I'm blocking. It's a total mic drop. And then he just destroys his room. Yeah. With, Tyler, the creator comes. I fucking hate you. That song coming on. I love that you can hear the dad trying to get in, like, come on, man, stop this in the room is just. Yeah, like, destroyed. And it all feels so. It feels so real to them as their age. But then even to me now, it just feels oh I'm, I'm far older than these characters are. And it feels so authentic. Oh, man. Man, this is one of the best movies I've ever seen. Truly, about just the high school experience about being this age of any movie. It just is. It really is. Well, especially when you kill somebody. Because I felt like that when, when it when you killed a guy multiple. I didn't think, oh, we'll get to that. It's here we go, here we go, Mr. Fuck Buttons. We get some dance montage. Surf solar starts. Alexis is with another guy in the pictures, and we just go back from the screen and you're like, what the fuck? If you look carefully, Emily, the sister is in that group as well, which I sure it is. And this is I mean, here we go. Tyler is crushing pills, vodka, snorting Adderall. The muse. He's doing fist push ups. Alexis is dancing. I love that cut. Oh, to the dance floor of the kid popping up. Alexis dancing. I love that the, him trying to do dumbbell curls with his shoulder. That is. Christ, that fucks me up because I'm on one level. There's like, the literal, like, pain of it. But, you know, the emotional reason as to why, like, he's so fucked up that he is just like, I'm not letting it, but then he can't, that's such a great addition to the montage. It's such and like those fucking push ups, which would hurt like hell to shoulder. And he's just going. He's like, I don't care. He refuses. Yes. Yeah. He refuses. Yep. He refuses everything. He refuses that he is weak, vulnerable. He refuses that this woman doesn't love him. He is just a complete refusal of of everything that's happening in his life. Yeah. I mean, he's literally enraged with FOMO of, like, seeing this stuff on social media, imagining what's going on. He knows where the after party is going to be. I love that in the midst of this chaos, they take that little moment to have that lip gloss scene that I was talking about between Taylor, Russell and Alexa to me, who became in real life, very, very good friends because of this movie. So I loved it. I think there's a lot of their personalities in each of their characters here, and I just love that it's something you I mean, it's also just great to see two girls be girls in the movie that, I mean, Alexis is allowed to have a fun night. She had a shitty boyfriend. She even though she's pregnant, I doubt a lot of her friends know that she's allowed to go out and dance. He's not drinking the last one night of her life. Well, she doesn't know that. But yeah, it is the last. Well, no, but I mean, she's pregnant and she's gonna have a kid, so it's all over. Okay, well, I see, I see what you mean. Even if she didn't know her. Even if she didn't know what? Her demise. I love the really brief scene of her dancing with her friends while Amy Winehouse sings, because the look on her face is like, I miss this guy. Like, I wish it didn't have to be like this. I miss him like she she looks genuinely, you know, heartbroken. And then, I mean, we're going, we're going music, music. Go go go go go. And boom stops and the mom catches him. What are you doing? Yeah. Oh, my God, I just love that. And, yeah, we're. You know, this movie has more than one more than a few good argument scenes. And this is oh, I cannot express how in screenwriting how difficult something like this is to pull off it should play as absurd that this late in the movie, we are learning that this is not their real mother. This is a woman that their dad married shortly after their mom died, and she is raised them. And when you learn that, you're like, okay, that kind of came out of nowhere. But the way that he is used it, you know, he's never used this in his life. He's never said this to her. You are not my mother. And Goldsberry, his reaction, it gives me chills the way she's trying to stifle tears, saying, I am your mother, I am your mother and just really trying to be strong. Her reaction is the reason why you feel that this has never been said exactly. That's why you feel that the scene is that ridiculous, that the writing is ridiculous, and it's like, this is this is a card that any child in this situation can play. They can be mad enough and be like, no, you're not my real mom. Like any kid can play that in the way that he does it. And then I meet him looking at him, and you're you're waiting. You're waiting for the dad to reach over and swing on him. You're just waiting for something. And him just going, I fucking hate you. You're like, wow, wow, oh, wow. Here we are. And and I think it also is it's great. It's great character. It's great story. Everything is that even though they don't get into a fight physically, if it ever came down to it, this the father would still best the son. Yeah, I think so much bigger, much stronger. He does have a bad knee, which is going to come into play, but yes, it comes into play. But the fact that even for Sterling K Brown, which is why I think this adds even more drama later, is that as short and brief as the encounter was, he physically couldn't stop his son. And because he couldn't. What ends up happening happens. And I love that. It wasn't, it wasn't because there is like a bit of it. You were like oh that's it. But he, he pushed him down and his knee was out. And it doesn't take long for in that moment for you to run out the door and into the car and off you go. It's it's just sort of like shit that happened so fast. What happened? And and now the night keeps going. Yeah. We're immediately thrown back into this chaos. Like, as soon as Sterling hits the ground. A boom from I Am a God by Kanye West was a really, really tough song. Yeah, yeah, that was the hardest song for them to clear and I guess it happened at like the last second, but it is so impactful to way to the way. It's like Tyler's driving drunk, Sterling trying to chase him. The mom's calling friends got to be above it. Got to be above it. That's bad. The camera's zooming around. It's crazy. Everything's going crazy. Well, yeah, I mean, he gets to the party. That's, you know, he's going to the after party. He knows that's where Alexis is going to be. His sister is there coincidentally as well. This is the longest shot of the movie. When he gets out of the car and walks, you know, around the house and then into the house. And he's basically he's just following her. It's a really, really good shot. You know, he's smoking. His friend's like, hey, your mom's trying to call me now. It's all good. So many primary colors of the lighting. Yeah, this house party looks like nuts. And it's, you know, we really. Okay, so I'm watching this from a guy's perspective, and I'm like, is she really, like, hooking up with that friend? Like, that's they're going in this bedroom together. That's that's weird. That seems out of place. And then I go, there's no way. I bet they're just like, they're all like, I don't know, splitting a joint in a bedroom or something. It can't just be that. But you're thinking just like he's thinking. And then, man, when he goes into that bathroom, he goes into the bathroom to look at. And we've had another change, a very quick one, but we've had another. This is as like tight as the is going to get. The bars are on the tight on the top and the bottom. We've had another aspect ratio change and just looks at himself. And this is this is the last. He doesn't know this. This is the last time he's ever going to make a decision on his own. It's the last time he's ever going to be a free man. And he decides to pursue it, to go after it. And but he's so fucked up like so. It's his face. You can just see it in its face of hell. Yeah. Like, you know, he's put a lot into. His body's worked out. He's pushed his dad down. He's driven here. When you do all of that shit, and then you just stop. And now you're in a bathroom mirror and looking at yourself. But you're still that fucked up. Yeah. It all plays on him. And the washing of the hands like that, that that gets me so much because there is like a moment that even when you're in your most fucked up, like, sometimes you just have, like, those weird, like, clarity moments was like him just looking at his hands is like this last moment of just being like, not even like looking back at what I've done already. It's just sort of like, Holy shit, look at my hands right now. Like. And then looking at the mirror and then like, making that decision, it's almost like this is like your last moment to maybe not. Yeah. Yeah. It's what I'm saying. Yeah. Because it's the hands are so sharp in that, in that, in that, in the, in the focus and Oh but we do get that lighting so that, that is that yellow, yellow lighting that mirrors back to the okay. All right. There you go. Very. Yeah. The computer. Yeah, yeah. So, each color, most colors on the spectrum get a big, like, stand out moment. And the yellow is really speaking here, and he, he has a little moment to himself. He goes down, Emily spots Tyler, and she doesn't do anything, but he follows Alexis into the garage. And the first time I saw this, I had no idea where we were calling. And it starts. Okay. And she wins this scene for me. The way that she's just had enough and dismissively throws the beers down and just walks away and she's like, you know what? Fuck this. She doesn't say that. That's what her looking for. And then when he's like, we can keep it, we can keep it. And she starts crying and it's so realistic. And her saying to my friend, that's Frankie, he's gay. You would have known that if you ever got to know my friends, but you never bothered to get to know them. It's a very intense scene. Very. I love the way it's lit to it's so harshly like that because wrestling. Yeah, that's ugly fluorescent light and they get into an argument. He's very fucked up. And what happens is something that I, I have to credit movies for when they do this. Because violence, dear listeners, is a very, very real thing. And violence really, really hurts. And when an athletic high school athlete man punches a small, petite woman, you can punch her just once and she can fall over with enough force onto concrete, hit her head and die. And that is what happens here. That is something that can actually happen in real life. It's, you know, real life in an action movie. And I do not like that this is what happens to a character. But I like that the movie is honest with its violence. And yeah, we cut to black, so like a beta to too long, but there's that red. I don't know what that is. Oh, it's just, it's just a frame of red right before she hits. Yeah, it's I mean, that's like a Kubrick trick. Honestly. That's where I was just going to say it was a Kubrick thing. And I remember I was sort of like, oof! Because it's almost in that split second cartoonish in a, in a very but it's needed. It's like an impact so much more. Man. I agree and then when we come back, when we open up, we are now in the four three aspect ratio to where the bars are on the right and left. And now he is trapped. He's locked in and his world is small. I'll tell you what, that aspect ratio change. I got up out of my seat first time I saw it. Damn right. But but I was I because as soon as it happened, I was. I had to just express my my joy for this awesome aspect ratio cut because I was like I did. Yeah, I hands are up in the air. This is this this this movie is awesome. And we're so like close to him too. And he just looks so panicked and terrified, you know, wake up, wake up. And yeah, the way that it's handled is brilliant. It's just so sad. It's you know, actually I'll talk a little bit about what was going on on set. So Alexa to me was, you know, on the ground having to act, had blood around her and everything. And I guess during one portion, she, she kind of flipped out based on, I guess, some things that she's gone through in her past. And apparently when she was sitting there and all the girls rushed in, some of the girls on set, like, had very, very bad reactions to it based on things they've been through with their past and who's going around comforting people, being a little angel, whether the cameras rolling or not. Taylor, Russell, she's walking around cradling all the girls, cradling Alexia to me, doing and being Emily like being that person on set without being asked to. And I learned all that from the commentary. And when I heard all that, I'm like, I just love I love Alexa to me as a performer, and I love Taylor. Russell is a performer starting because of this movie. But I've got I still just love them to this day and I what a great little anecdote to a really difficult situation because yeah, we once we cut back to that for three, we have descended into a nightmare. There are, car crashes. He's just like back in his truck into cars. There's police sirens, music blaring. He's running. Oh, my God, the fucking call of Clifton Collins junior, who's playing Alexis's dad, getting that in the mom and then them rushing out to the car. We get we get them so briefly. It's just so I mean, they're they're two for Shults to show that to include that I love I love that so much. And it's just yeah it's heartbreaking. And then presumably the worst thing that could happen to Ronald to Sterling K Brown happens. Yeah. His his son who is kept on such a tight leash. It is done. The worst thing in has gotten off of your leash and and watching him put it together showing up at the party he sees Emily. You know it was that. Was that his girlfriend? Yeah, that was her devastating and devastating. The first time I watch in the movie, I'm like, what is is it like, is this the movie could be done, honestly. Oh yeah. It just like I didn't. I have no idea where the fuck we were going. No. No idea. Like. And I was convinced the first time that he was going to die, like, so was this was all. This was all going to go into a police chase where I thought the police. So it was. Yeah, I thought the police were just going to kill him. That's what I thought was going to happen. Yeah. And the really quick the there's a shot of the police swirls in the lighting. I don't know if you remember that, but like. Oh, yeah, that to me was one of the coolest looking things in the whole movie. Yeah. I don't know how you got those rings or those swirls. I'm sure it was. It's probably more like a happy accident in some ways. They were, drew, the cinematographer was like they were waiting on set with the police car there, and he just put some crazy lenses on his camera and just started shooting. That just started doing amazing. Yeah. But it really adds that nightmare. It that sequence feels like a nightmare. Yeah, yeah, we're going to get a handoff. We're going to get a changeover of him. A long shot of him in the back of a police car. Yeah, yeah, just holding and holding. And it's like, okay, so I remember thinking like now this is going to become a prison movie. Like this is, is this going to become a courtroom thriller that okay, that is not what I thought was going to happen. And we just change over. We change over to the backseat of another car. But we come from the the nightmare of the red and blue of the police. It kind of transfers into a very Terrence Malick like little. It's not very long, but we don't know what it is. But it's just this red lighting. Yeah, he calls it a transference of energy. That's what he's trying to. That's it. That's what I wrote. Fucking. I go to trance. The transference in energy from nightmare to calm. Because when we emerge, we've gone to this nightmare red to. It's not I don't it's not like a sky blue. It's not a, it's not a peaceful blue. But it is a coming outside. Then you get Taylor Russell's face, where I think this lends itself to feeling sort of calm. But you'd all of a sudden you feel like it's a new day, but you automatically get, oh, we're now with her. This is. That's my first question. When did you figure it out? Yeah. Yeah, that's my first question. Yeah, it I mean, I didn't know for sure, but I remember thinking, is this what this is now. Same here. And if it and if it is oh I love it so much I'm getting goosebumps. But that's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is that there is that that transference where you sort of understand now we're here. Oh. And then the courtroom again, just like cutting to from we're in this together to driving to the abortion clinic. We get no police interrogations, we get no no courtroom, we get nothing. We are right at the final stage of a court proceeding, which is sentencing. We're just boom there. And it is devastating. And you're I mean, he gets he he has pled guilty, which is probably smart. He gets life in prison up for parole in 30 years. To me it's dumb. It's Goldsberry who owns this with that, that stifled trying not to get choked up and, like, really keeping it in and, like, knowing that the parents of this slain girl are just right here. But seeing all seeing Emily realize all this. Oh, man. See, I have to you. Maybe you maybe you'll know more. But, maybe I looked away for a second, but like, during the whole entire sentencing part of it, I didn't know that. Like Clifton Collins junior and his wife were there. You don't know until. Yeah, until the cuts show it. Yeah. Because it's such a great cut. Because you are in that moment emotionally. There is a one sided feeling that you are where that sentencing happens. And I love Sterling K Brown because he has this reaction where to me it was internally go. That's his whole life. Yep. Like there's not like oh there's still going to be time for you when this is over. You're going to serve your sentence. It's going to be ten years, but you're going to be like 25th hour, like you're still going to be young. You're still going to be here. This wasn't that. This was that's his whole life. That's it. You're not defending what he did, but you are feeling the emotional weight of a life now completely resonated to jail. Yeah. And he's young. And this. His life is completely over. He's not dead, but he might as well be. But then when you cut to the Clifton colleges and and and his wife, you almost are like, balanced. We're justice. She is dead. Yeah. They're kids. She's infected. Yeah. And and it's like. Oh, and you don't feel bad, like I, I didn't feel like, oh, I'm a piece of shit. But it's just that's what Trey was doing was like, yeah, here is one reality feel all of it. The shame of a life gone to prison. The leftovers of a family. Oh my God, oh my God, wait a second. Boom. Right over here. Don't forget about this other reality. And I wrote it. They both were. But I wrote justice versus pain. Yeah. And it was. And both are in pain. But like when you get the justice part of it, it just really kind of hits. And that's. You said something to me recently that I've been seeing a lot to myself in a phone call that had nothing to do with this movie. But you were like, two things can be true at the same time. Yeah. And I've just kind of life's happened to me in a certain way lately where that has just been proven time and time again. And when you watch this movie and the way that that plays out, it's like you can't get a better example of two things can be true at the same time. Yeah, like two that that little phrase has helped me a lot in life, especially adult life. But it can be true that the mom and dad miss and are very sad that they're probably they're never going to have a relationship with their son again. He's gone. And it can also be true that these two parents are devastated and are never definitively going to get to speak to their daughter again because their daughter is dead. And from everything we can tell, it appears she appears to be an only child. I mean it never given any suggestion. So imagine how they're feeling. So yeah, it's a balance of scale. It's hurt and pain. It's all that stuff. That's what this movie is. It seems to me like the one. One of the coolest themes of this movie is that everything is in balance of compassion and conflict. Like, well, like and and it really is because I don't know whose choice this was. But even when Clifton is leaving, when he grabs his wife and they're walking out bereaved and everything, there's so many ways as an actor that you could play that look to the other family like it can be. You could be wracked in tears, you could be wracked in anger. I got it was compassion in a way. Like there was, yeah, like this was a shit situation for everybody. But in for that man who lost his daughter to look at the family of the guy who killed their daughter and have just a brief look of, I don't even know what you I don't even know if compassion is the right word, but. Well, it's he's he's such a good actor. It's a hard look to identify what it is not is a malicious look. It is not exactly. It is not angry. It is not malicious. And that is it's just a really good actor. And when you think about how this movie is just compassion in pain or compassion in conflict, it's conflict within the scene. It's conflict internally and there's but there's always the balance. Whenever there is that compassion, there is a conflict. And it's really kind of, here we go, riding the waves of those two. Damn right. Yeah. We need to get an award for this show. Fucking right. We should. Goddamn, this is good. I know my favorite episode we've ever done. Yeah, same. Same fucking right. I've been waiting five years for this, but, yeah, like, even to the courtroom, Emily is literally in the middle of these two families. So she's the the person in the middle with no identity. No one's asking how she's doing. Nothing like that. She's bumping into guys in the hallway who are going to learn. I love that it's actually him, that it's Luke. I love that, and if you look, if you look closely when she enters the cafeteria alone, he's eating alone, like, in the bottom left of the frame. He's just there, kind of eating alone. Yeah. You know, she's looking at Alexis's Instagram and we get to this meet cute between her and Luke, and, you know, I'm like a cynical, jaded movie watcher. So I'm watching this going, I hand to God, if you ask me, if we were in the movie together and you were like, what do you think's going to happen? I really thought he was going to get with her just to fuck her over. I thought he was going to do something terrible and just, like, screw her over. Because of the Alexis death, I. I don't know what ends up happening, was the last thing I thought of. What to show us this beautiful, authentic young love story blossom from the beginning. But then and now then I'm going to love you for the rest of my life. Let's get married. Not in that it doesn't. Even the love just ends with a little look. Like on the beach. Like here. Here we go. But I mean, you don't know, and that's I, I love that, but this meet cute they have. It's just so funny. He's so awkward. I, Oh my God. Oh, I love it so much. Just. Are you here? This outfit is so hysterical. Oh, I love it. He's my favorite character in the movie, and that's crazy to say, but I think I think it's because of what he represents. Yeah. It's not. And also he Lucas Hedges plays this part on he every every note is just so good. But in speaking to the awkwardness there, the camera even helps him because like we're, we're we're zoomed in on a master shot for lack of a better term, undernourished. He's sitting out on the bench with her, with her, with her notebooks, and we're hearing him talk. We know who it is. But when the camera starts to pan out or it starts to, yeah, pan out. And we see him just in his stupid shorts, shorts and his, button down shirt. It is his button down shirt. And he's so awkwardly just kind of like doing a dance, basically. Yeah. There's something so sweet about it. If the camera didn't do that, we would still get it 100% because of his performance. Like, if that was an over-the-shoulder shot, we would totally get it. But there was just something about that element of the camera panning out and just seeing this guy in that way, it's just it's the reason why cinematography is can be so good is because, all right, the the performance will carry this. But if we see him it just makes it that much more real. And then like even when it's over, he he forgets where he's going. Where. Yeah. I think it was the wrong way. And it's just like he's like, wait, it's it's it's not good bracelets. I that had to have been him because even the lollipops for him that he just did that, that wasn't scripted. Oh he just that's amazing. Yeah. You just you find a lot like you want one of these. Okay, I know that you want one of these. He's like, do you want to see. Oh. And you feel from her she's like, do do I even take off my headphones? Like, who is this guy? Is this what is this? And like, trying to see is he being authentic? Is he just kind of like an awkward kid, which there's so many of in high school? I was one of them. Like, it's. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. When he even says, like, would you want to grab something to eat? She's just, she almost like laughs. Like what? Yeah. Like what are you like what. Oh my god. Yeah. And I think it's right to kind of feel like that bit of like are you, is this going to be a guy that just does this. Because I think it's a natural reaction. There's a moment I, it's one of my favorite moments in the whole entire movie is when they're at the diner. Oh they're, they're getting into it a little bit like they're like, you know he asks like she's like, you know who my brother is. And but she talks I think, I think the line is she mentioned something about her grandmother or grandfather, a grandparent dying. And Lucas Hedges goes, that sucks. Yeah. And then he makes a terrible face. He's he makes that face off. Why the fuck did you just say that? Like, you know, it. He he meant like, oh, that sucks. But it came out in, like, such. And who hasn't been there like, hasn't said something that just came out in a certain way, but that immediate reaction, I was like, all. And I'm so glad that they kept it. Yeah. Because that could easily be a really easy edit throw away. And or you just go to what? Maybe it take where he doesn't say it like that, but but and because she just rifles through it too. Yeah. She does like they don't make a moment of that moment. They just let that moment exist and she's just going on. Yeah. And and I, I love that when he dismisses himself with that look just like cut. But, I love her. Why do you see her actively opening up and like, the the song starts. What a difference a day makes. Which we had heard the mom singing to Tyler in the car and now it's in the diner. This is the same diner where they had, you know, after church. And so we're getting all these callbacks and he's innocent and naive, but you're wondering, like, you know who my brother is? And he's like, yes, but. And that doesn't it doesn't mean that has to be a reflection of her. It doesn't mean that just because your brother, I mean, he wrestled with the brother he was he needed the brother. It's like I just I love that he really seems to care what Emily has gone through. And he might be the first person in her life to, like, actually ask how she's been since all this shit is gone. I think so, and I think that really means something to her. Yeah, and then what? We get from here is also kind of like it's a complete callback to the opening, but done differently because you're, you're focusing not on just a life of like how in the beginning we're watching, Tyler's life and what it is. But the this burgeoning relationship where they're meeting in the halls of the high school. But there's a voiceover going on of a phone call that they're having where they're just getting to know each other more. But then every subsequent visual that we see is a new date. Yeah, it's very Malick, very it's. Oh, and the cameras, the camera's twisting around, and then we're pushing in, like pulling out. It's brilliant. I've. I've scenes like this, like, this is what I'm saying. Like this, this method of storytelling I identify with, so intensely. And it's also just it's also a complete problem solver. Yeah. So many ways, because you need to understand that these two are getting to know each other, but you can't show every single date. So right, by focusing on one conversation overlapped by visuals that are clearly spanning time and then even cut with dialog in the moment where you just are understanding, oh, this is young love. This is what happens. It's genius. It's so good. I love it, love it, love it, love it. Hi, how are you? I'm in my bedroom. Oh, nice. Where are you? I'm in, my living room tonight. Sitting on the sofa. Comfy sofa. Comfy. Scrummy. So, I have a few questions for you. Oh, wow. Okay, I'm nervous now, but I get to know you better than I am. I wrote I have two questions if I wanted to ask you. Are you excited for college? Hello? I mean, fuck. Holy shit. Do you see that? That's a manatee. Fucking. Yeah. We're we're arriving to one of my favorite moments, which is, you know, she goes to that spring with Luke and his friends, and. Oh, yeah, there's no emphasis put on the fact that she is a 17 year old girl and, you know, she's allowed to sit on a tree and, like, sip a beer or like, take a hit off a joint, like, it's not. It doesn't have to be the end of the world like it was for her brother. I love watching her being able to live her life and when she's. Yeah, afraid to jump out of the tree, you can hear Franco. She kind of swelling up in the air as soon as she hits the water. Boom. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. You. Know, you may say, It's Florida by Frank ocean. We get to see. We see them kissing like, half above water, half underwater. There's these yacht, I don't know, young love, Frank ocean. We'd, It's fucking brilliant. Dan and I do have we say that with, you know, after their first date in the diner, we opened back up again. We went with you because we've been in for three the whole time. Now we switch, so the bars are on the top and bottom. We're back in two, six, six. So now her world, it's just the opposite. Tyler's world gets smaller and smaller, tighter and tighter. Hers, when we meet, starts that way and gets wider and wider. It's it's simple but very, very brilliant construction. Oh, yeah. And it's so lovely. It's such a and it's amazing that it's all captured in one movie. Yeah. Exactly. It it doesn't feel rushed. It doesn't feel it doesn't feel like we're in a different movie even though it's entirely a different movie. Yeah, it's completely different, but it does not feel at all like this doesn't belong or like what are we doing it doesn't it feel so connected to itself? And yet we're experiencing a beautiful, sweet, young love versus this very, very intense rageful, spiral in the beginning. Hell, hell hell heaven heaven heaven. Yeah. Can you imagine how much it's going to suck when these two break up? Well, I mean, honestly, I don't think it'll be that bad. I, I envision, like, probably stay together. I don't know if she has another year of high school or if enough time has passed where they talk about going to college. Yeah. So if she's going to college, it's probably just a natural like, you know, ended the summer before we leave. I don't know, I don't think it needs to. Yeah. I don't think it needs to be as tough. She's been through worse. I'll put it that way a lot worse. Such as? She's like taken off with this guy. Guess who doesn't give a shit? Her parents, who still haven't asked her what the hell she's up to, and she overhears them get into yet another great movie that waves, which is all one shot, two adults. Now we're getting to see adults fight. These are not kids. These are not 17, 18 year olds. They're not sending text messages and this is just it's a brilliant fight. You can see him pushing her. You're not here. You're not here. And again, that thing that Alexa to me could do with her voice when she yells at him, you pushed him. You pushed him. Yeah. And then I am grieving. The way she snaps with grieving is so fucking authentic. You. You fit in the the production design of the room, the laundry. It's so fucking real. Oh yeah. It is such a realistic argument. Yeah. Just holding on them, going from one to the other. It's like a it's a little dance between them when she is putting on her sweater saying, you make me sick. That body language is like, oh, like you make me sick. And I. And he won't give it up. He's the guy. Like, I make you sick. I make you sick. What do you mean I make you sick? It's like, dude, just give her some fucking space, man. Oh, no. Are you talking about her again? For you? What are you talking about? You pushed him. You pushed him. You pushed him? No. You were not there for her. It was different with, you know. You know, I. I raised these kids the best way that I know. Well, at least I'm me here, Kathy. I'm the one that's trying to hold this family together. Where are you? The little black boy going down screaming. Just asking you. Can I grieve in my way, please? Yeah. That's not fair. I've done nothing but be here for you. That's all I've done. I'm just trying to be around you. God. Oh, God, you make me sick. I make you sick. And what did I do to make you sick? Like, honestly, I just want to be here for you. With you. We're going through this together. We went through this together. But it's not until she tells him I can't look at you without seeing him. Because. Because that's like the one part in that argument. Because he's fighting for, like, what do you mean, exactly? To your point. Like, what do you mean? I make you sick? Be here. I'm here. Let's do this together. But when she finally says, I can't look at you without seeing him, he does not have a rebuttal for that. Yeah. He is sort of like he gets it. But then he also realizes there's that there's nothing he can do. So it's helpless for him. And that's why if we're, I think we're on track for getting to the Taylor Sterling K Brown scene. Yeah. There's only one little brief thing but yeah this argument unlocks him for that. This argument makes him emotionally available for the bench scene. Yeah. Because when he says your mother might hate me, it's not exaggerated and he's not being dramatic. And then he goes, no, she really might because of that, because he knows that for someone to feel like that, you can't unsee it. Right? So like, it's one of those things that unfortunately happens in life with people where something so traumatic and awful happens, where you just like, have this association. Sometimes there's no getting that back, right. Sometimes there is and hopefully there there is. It seems like by the end we do get that. But there is a very I hope so, yeah, reality where it's sort of like, I, I love you, I can we can still be here together, but I can't, I can't be in love with you anymore. And just because of that. So anyways. No. And she's, you know, Emily's been listening. She's in her bathroom. She got, like, her hand on her heads and the next big thing. And it is important. And I don't think it gets talked about enough when I'm talking with people about the movie. We get Luke and Emily in the car. Okay, this is one of the most important scenes in the movie, because this is the only time we get to hear details about Emily's real mother. And I think this is very telling because we hear that she was a drug addict who died when she and Tyler were young, and their father clearly remarried, quickly married. I, I'm assuming a much more stable person. Katherine, who's going to become a therapist. And maybe that's why the dad has been so hard on Tyler. Maybe. Maybe, I don't know. He could see things like, you know, my pills are missing. Or, you know, maybe he's going to turn into his mom. I don't know, there's just they included that in the movie for a reason. And I see a lot of, you know, even Tyler's substance abuse means maybe he, like. Oh, it's suggesting maybe he caught that a little from his mom. There's just there's so much built into that. And I love that they included it. And I love that it gives a little context to why the dad may be as tough as he is. It doesn't excuse it all, but you. Yeah, you learn a little about where these people came from and it it definitely influence has influenced the dad's drive, his determination. You got to do it all for yourself. We don't have the luxury of being average. All that stuff. It's more it's actually more like indicative of the sterling Kate Brown character. It's more revealing of his character than anyone else. And that's. That's my favorite scene between Louis. Oh, wow. Really? Emily. Oh, cool. Because that is the same scene where he talks about his dad to his dad. So we sharing? Yes. And that's it's a sharing. Like we learned that his dad was not a good guy. He's very sick. He doesn't live nearby. Yeah, yeah. And I love the way that Lucas Hedges plays that because you don't I mean, because you don't know how many friends this guy has. It seems like he's like when they're in the pool, they're in, like, the the the. Yeah, the spring and stuff. Yeah he does. He's. Yeah. It's like a group but I doubt he's a leader of it you know. Yeah, exactly. He seems like he's part of it. But I don't know too many people know about it. He's let them in on it I just yes I agree, but I love when she says to him, do you want to talk about it? And he says it like, sure, I can talk about it. But as soon as he starts to talk about it, he says, sure, so matter of factly, like, it's almost like I took that is is like how someone finds out about my dad and I have no problem talking about it. So I'm like, sure, I can talk about it. And so I'll say it almost just like that. If it's the right person, then I'm willing. But I think once he starts actually speaking, it feels like it's the first time he may have ever actually talked about it. Yeah, because he gets self-conscious during it. And and he, and then she is got no judgment, just as he has no judgment about her past. It's just a very beautiful it's it speaks to the way that their love is, is blossoming. And just who these two characters are as human beings is that they don't hold that kind of judgment. And don't they're not scared of it when the other person brings stuff up, that's not exactly comfortable. Yeah, I don't think they've ever, ever shared this with a romantic interest either of them. Maybe with a friend a little while ago, but not like with someone that you're being intimate with. And then yeah, they have that. And then I love again going back to like she's allowed to live her own life. They go and do drugs, they do ecstasy and they have a great time and nothing bad happens. She puts her head out the window. I was like, oh God, here we go, hereditary. But nothing happens. So it's like, you know, I love that juxtaposition of Tyler getting, oh, not having any oh, that's what this whole movie is practically. Tyler not having any idea how to handle his substances. And we're seeing her do all this stuff for the first time, and it's, like, sweet and kind of cute, and I. And then, yes, immediately after we're getting, like, we go, we're in a park and the blues in the green to the scene. Oh my God. And it's Emily and Dad having a talk for the first time. We've seen in the movie. And this is this whole scene is just remarkable, the way they are passing the emotional baton to each other, the way she when she says, you know how are you? And he's like, And I'm good. I do not think anyone who cares about him has asked him that question in years. You know, in years, and wanted or expected an honest response. I don't think he's been vulnerable. Not intimate, vulnerable, no. With anyone? No. In years I don't I think he's just been bottling it all in. And he I mean, obviously people know how I feel about this movie. I think it should have been nominated for everything. No acting like anywhere for any of these people. Seems like never, even in the conversation seems very bizarre when he's been nominated for Emmys, Goldsberry won Tonys for she was in Hamilton like she was in a huge theater production, and I just I think he is so good here. I think he is astounding in this and just opening up and, you know, you already kind of touched on it. But yeah. And then I mean, her switching over and being like, I hate him so much. Talking about Tyler is so primal. And then him being there and he displays vulnerability. She lets him know that it's okay because he breaks down and she comforts him. Yeah. And then she breaks down and he comforts her. And there is no resolve? No. But this is what this is what it means to kind of go through the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Like in this moment, because of where the time is for both of them in both what they're going through, there's there's nothing to win, there's nothing to gain. There's only what I can give to you and what you can be there for. It's amazing because I think this is like the scene that people think about the most with this movie. They do? Yeah, in a weird way. It's it is the poster shot. They're not in the ocean. They superimposed the poster, but like their hug at the end, that wide shot from behind is the whole poster. Yeah, it's it's a very big scene. Yeah. And and it and it all to ultimately when it's all said and done is just a family in tragedy showing love. Yep. Towards each other. That's really what it is. And it's just it's beautiful. It's just beautiful. Oh God. And there's his whole closing speech of all we have is now. But he ends and he's like, I love you so much, baby girl. And just puts his arm around her and hugs her. It's just it's so beautiful. And we really needed it as an audience. Like we really needed them to have this moment. Yeah, all we have is no. All we have is now. And I'm telling you this because I love you. Holding on to that much hate will destroy a person, and I'm not about to let that happen to you. You have so much love to share with the world and so much life. You have to live. And you remember Poppy's favorite scriptures said, hatred stirs up strife. Love. Love covers all differences. And I love you so much. Go, come. And. And it was very. I loved his moment of when he's when he when he breaks down and he tells her that I, I you shouldn't be having to hear this from me. Right. And he's right just that I have no one. I talk exactly, he has no one. But it is that that is a emotionally inappropriate thing, I think, for a parent to do. But he he has no one. His wife it I, I do not that this dude has friends. He does not seem like a good hang. I'm sure he doesn't know this, but he does not seem like like a fun dude to hang out with. He's just going to be telling you everything you're doing wrong. You know you shouldn't hold your beer like that. If you do that, it's warming your beer up. He seems like one of those guys I don't know. Yeah, no, it's very true. It's a tough thing to be able to like. Am I really going to give all of this to my to someone so younger? So not even daughter, just someone who's so young. Am I going just going to put this on. But I love her too, because she goes, I'm glad you're telling me all this. It's just it's just a it's just a great it's great. But those are the two characters that are the only two characters that can do that for each other in this movie. Then, you know, Luke and Emily, we are listening to Frank ocean in the tub. We actually get to see the blond album on the phone. There, and this is going to lead us to the final portion of the film here. Now, this is the only time this happens in the movie. But when we cut to Luke and Emily in the car beginning their road trip, we actually see the aspect ratio change is the only time we see it change in the movie, and you have to look kind of closely. The bars like are on the top and they go up wider and then it pauses and then the camera spins around again and then they go out of frame. So we are now back to where we started. And the 185 aspect ratio. And you should be able to see everything on your TV. There's no bars anywhere. Emily's world is fully open. And what I love is that the way that she, the way that she goes on an emotional journey is by being in service of someone else and by being there, by first encouraging Luke, who was really not going to make the trek from Florida to Missouri to see his very ill dying father. She encourages it. She's there the whole way. It's another little bit of a handoff of kind of giving this movie to Lucas Hedges for a little bit, but all while seeing how this impacts Emily and how this leads her eventually to send like kind of an all time or text message to mom like that text, you can't, like, do anything with that. You just go, all right, that's my daughter right there. Like, I'll wait till she gets back. Like a really earnest good text message. But she's also allowed to kind of go out and get in a little bit of trouble. And she's going to catch hell for this from Mom and Dad about going away for 4 or 5 days and not telling them. But she's young and she's allowed to go kind of discover life on her own. And I just, I love this whole sequence. I love that actor playing his dad, Neal Huff. It's just it's yeah, it's really, really good. And again, like that, we fucking did this. Like we did this with I'm Alive in chapter three when you're in the hospital and then chapter four when you're like at the bedside saying goodbye and that is what I was thinking of the whole time I was watching this is going at it. You know, whenever I watch a movie, I cannot help it. I'm always I'm like, guessing where it's going or going. Okay. I think we have like 15 minutes left. This is just trying to, like, not guess like where it is, but trying to, you know, anticipate the beats of it. And this movie, I always anticipated the wrong thing, the wrong direction. The movie was going to go in every direction it went in was the correct one. And it does that. Yeah, constantly. And it fools me every time, just emotionally. And yeah, I love this. I love this little part because ultimately, and I think this is the point of it, is that it chooses love. Yeah. Exactly. Like because obviously Tyler's not choosing things out of love, necessarily blinded by a lot of things. And also in certain substances. But like ultimately the whole point overarching theme of waves is to choose love. Well said, and I agree. And that takes us, right to I can't even talk about Falcone's goosebumps, this true Love Waits montage. I don't know if you know the history of this song, but this was like Radiohead's, White Whale. They worked on this song for 20 years and could not get it right, and I think performed it for the first time in 95 and just could not get the composition of it right. It comes out. It's the last track on there, which is still their most recent album, a moon Shaped Pool. And I, when that album came out, it was just like Frank ocean, like Frank Ocean Blond. That album and endless came out right around all this turmoil in my life. So I, like, really latched on to Blond and Endless. They were such big albums for me. Moon Shape Hold True Love Waits was such a big song and this is just you're right, it doesn't feel like we're so in the movie up here. Here's a montage. It just feels it's really patient. We hear the entire song. It's a long ballad. Yeah. Damn near everything we cut to in this montage on its own. Just thinking about it for too long can make me cry. So we go first to prison, where we see Tyler and what is he doing in his cell? He's looking at a picture of Alexis because he misses her. Yeah, and he loves her. He was in love with her. He made a terrible mistake, as his dad said. He did something very bad. But he loves her. Devastating to me. And he does a little prayer, you know, before he eat, he didn't give a shit about religion before. He's fallen asleep in church now. It's something that, like his dad, he's probably going to make a part of his life. It's so moving to me. Let me go to the grave. We see Alexis, his parents. That beautiful, heartbreaking shot of Clifton Collins, junior, Emily and Luke in the hotel shower and kind of getting ready. That's not going to make me cry. But the look that they gave each other on that beach is so, like, beautiful and like, kind of it's kind of like a punch drunk love. Here we go thing like, we don't know. It's all this is not it's conflict. Whatever's going to be with this is what it's going to be. And that's okay. Oh, I love that. Catherine gets Emily's text. Her reaction that is so special. And then she gets the courage mom does to go visit Tyler in prison. And I love just sitting there waiting for her. We get dad fishing alone, and then this is. I don't fucking know. This is so weird. I'm not like a religious person. When we cut back to the church and he's alone and just says Amen to himself, it makes me cry. He's he's just there. He really believes what he's hearing. And he's like, he's trying to keep himself together by, like, fishing, by going to church. He has to do these things alone. That's okay. I think it's brutal and then, you know, we end on. Right, as Tom Yorke's telling us, don't leave. Don't leave. In the song, Ronald finds Catherine in Tyler's room, sitting on the bed, and they have a great little moment together of, you know, I like to think it, this is a new chapter. Like there will be peace and hope and love and resolve. Not not for everyone in the way you might think or want, but it's very it's very reminiscent of the end of The Wire to me. Like not everyone, Tyler's life is not going to be the way that he thought it was. And I can't say he's going to have an okay life. He's his life is going to be hell. He's a he's in a cage for 30 plus years. But I do think there's hope for some and I, I it's just it's a perfect way to end the movie. Perfect song. And then you know what? Emily's back on the bike and the Alabama Shakes. Take us out and you're like, there we go. That's the movie I should be. Yeah. Devastated and in tears. And there's no hope. And it should be. It's so sad. It's been such a sad experience. We should be gutted, but I just don't think we are. I think we're filled with like a sense of, yeah, hope and love and hold on to the people next to you. That's what I get from it. That's why I love this movie. Yeah, I love this movie. But the end montage, I kind of talked all through it, but yeah, it's so good. I mean, you pretty much wrapped it up. I mean, yeah, I was kind of just like there. It doesn't feel like I think set in the beginning. It doesn't feel like this is the wrap up, even though it is. Yeah. Like it's all done without dialog. I think visually just this is the power of movies. Like this is the only way that you can do this is in a movie. Yeah. And you know, and sometimes you get these movie music montages where it's it's so on the nose. Exactly. This wasn't meant to be. It's the nature of that song is so elongated and and there's and it's not it's not like catchy there. It can live in the background because what we're seeing is more important than the song. The song is just supporting everything, and it's feeding us with that emotion. But it's again, it's not the star, it's the supporting player to these moments. The father in the church pew, the mom going to see. And, you know, maybe she's the only one that will ever actually go and see him. I was thinking that like that was a thought that I had, or she's the first one who's ready to see him. She I don't know what she means. And yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She she's the one that that needs it more than anyone else. Which also makes it even more heartbreaking when you think of when he told her that you're not my mom. Well, that's the last time they talked. That's the last thing he said to her. Yeah, at least that week. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, there's just so much to unpack with all that. And, but you finally end up with that and it's just sort of like, that was beautiful. There's no better way to end it. I really do think it's beautiful. I think it's very powerful film, very beautiful. God, I hope people I don't know, it's weird to be like, go watch it. I hope you've seen it. If you listen to us talk about it. But, you know, if you if you just wanted to listen anyway, I know there are some of you out there like that. God bless you. There I go. I think we have more. I think we have more people that do that than I actually the people. Yeah. Shout out Emma Rose, who I work with, who's listened to every episode of the pilot. She's great. Not necessarily like, I don't think she'd call herself a movie person, but she listens to all of our episodes and then decides based on how we talk about them. If she wants to go see the movie and it's like, oh, you don't mind, like having some? She's like, I don't care about my, my cousin. Big shout out to Zach. Zach. Zach is not a movie guy at all. He'll just admit this to you. He's listened to every fucking episode of this podcast. Like every episode, I don't get to see him enough. And I saw him a few weeks ago and he was quote shit to me that we've said, like from the Babylon commentary, and he's never even see Babylon. And I'm like, you listen to the commentaries that see him. He goes, yeah, it's fun. So, hey, I, I love you all, whether you've seen waves or not, if you're listening, I love you. And I'll say this to you because I'm feeling sentimental. Because of this movie. Okay. You know, we we've been very, very fortunate to. And we brought up some of them on the pod, but we've had a few people send us, quite honestly, the, the most beautiful letters or emails that, like you could ever receive in terms of their appreciation for us doing this. And even as we were doing this episode, I just felt like very fortunate and honored that we could be able to talk about this in this way and like really kind of covering all the reasons why this movie's important to us and the fact that that because you and I like, we would be talking like this if we weren't recording. That's the whole ethos of this podcast is you and I talking about movies, but let's just put a microphone in front of us. That's it. And and it seems that in like there are people that if we were just listening that this means something to. Yeah. And I think just because this movie means so much to us both now, and I'm still kind of feeling emotional about it, the fact that that is received by others warmly and in can and also in ways that seem to inspire people, that's just so cool. And I just have to say thank you to everyone who listens to us. Thank you so much. Like it's crazy. Yeah, huge. Thank you. Whether you're a movie fan or not or know it's I mean, some of the emails you all send us, we've tried our best to call them out when they've come through on the podcast or some of the nicest things any human being has ever said to me. And I'm like, wow, I'm just we're just being us. We're just being ourselves. Yeah, we're just, you know it. We do. It's like we've brought up some difficult things we've been to been through in our lives. One of the reasons you and I are so close is because we've been through these things. But we don't let them define us. We, you know, there's shit to do. We got it. We got to keep living here. We got to go through those. Those were waves. And then they go in and they come back. And that's I think that's what this movie represents too. But yeah, actually my what are you watching recommendation is specifically for one of our fans. I thought about him a lot, but yeah, it means it just means so much to me. I don't I hope everyone understands how grateful we are and that even if we're not saying it all the time like it means, it really does mean a lot. And this is this one was huge for me. I wanted to cover this movie. Oh yeah, so badly. So I'm so glad we did it. This has been one of my favorite episodes we've done, I think me too. And the timing of it, like, I don't think like had I not gone through what I've just gone through this past like month, this past this episode wouldn't mean what it means to me right now. So it's like, weird how the timing works out, because we could have covered this at any point in the last five years, and we almost did like before you had to go home. This was scheduled a little earlier, so you would not have gone home for that and just happening. Yeah, for getting that. The day that we're recording. This is a this is a very weird day. My mom's birthday was yesterday and the anniversary of her death is tomorrow. So she died very shortly after her 61st birthday. And it's like I think about this day. And I've dreaded these three days, like, so much in the past seven years or so. And I'm like, because I kind of wanted to just, like, chill this weekend and not do much. And when I found out we were doing this, I went, what? There is no better movie to talk about. There is no better movie to talk about. And yet and I'm good. Like, I'm here. I'm here with you. All my favorite people talking about one of my favorite movies. It's all good, man. Everything's all good waves. Fucking love this movie. So that's why I'm recommending Titanic is my. What is that? Oh my God. It was an iceberg right ahead. Are you really? That'd be hilarious if you did. No, no. Do you want to go first? No, I'm going to go. I'm going to go first because you're sounds way more meaningful than mine. I hope so I yeah, I hope I it's I think they're cool. I think it's cool. So, so we should main event with you. I'll, I'll curtain jerk and I'll open this up and, what is that a term? It's a it's a wrestling term. Okay. So not like a theater term I put in. So many of these terms that you just go right over your head in this, in this podcast or just anywhere throughout the course of this fight. I've got most of them because I look them up and I call them back to you in text messages when you're being pissy. What did I say to you? Go, oh, show no sale. Is that oh no cell, no cell. So I'm using that one. Yeah, yeah, I use one by, heel heel tip heel tip. Yep. Yeah. Okay. I'll say I'll say if one of us is really left to something, I'm like, oh, you really pop for that one a pop. I know it's a crowd reaction. But, curtain jerker is, is basically is basically nowadays it's oh, it's so nerdy nowadays. The opening match is really important to a show in wrestling. So like a big match will open the show. But back in the day, your opening match was the match that no one really wanted to see. The second pocket this match out of the way. Yeah. So you're. Yeah, you're curtain jerking, you're going the curtain open and now you're you're conjuring it. But in this case this applies. Okay, I'm going for the real safe bet here. And I'm just recommending Krysia because it's great one. Great. It's a great movie. And it's, it's it's completely appropriate to. Let's start with Trey Edward Schultz in this episode. If you've liked Wade's or you're going to see waves based on this pod, there's no way that you've seen Krisha and you haven't seen Wade's. That's true. Yes. If you've if you've seen Chris show, you've already seen waves. Yeah, but if you've seen waves, yeah, probably haven't seen Chris. Or maybe you probably haven't seen it. Or maybe you have. And and maybe it's time to go watch it again. So just watch that because it's a, it's a very different movie. But it's so it's handled as good as waves is. Yeah. It's it's brilliant.$30,000. Filmed it in his mom's home. The home in waves is not the home. Trey Edward Shults grew up in. A lot of people reported on that. The home in Krisha is the home that he, you know, his mom lives in. So there's like dogs, cats. It's just have you ever had a family member over for Thanksgiving? And it did not go well. It is that we've all had that that is happened. It is that too it's heightened the fact that his aunt is in it. She's brilliant. It's just really good. He's in it. Trader Joe's is in it playing the aunt. Some like he's good. It's a good movie. Great choice. My favorite Thanksgiving movie. Great call. There are too many of them, but that one's just great. Oh my God, it really, really nails it right up until the end. Like and it's it's not asking a lot. It's like 85 minutes or something and yeah it's very short. Yeah. Truly. No, but it'll get in there. One of my favorite commentaries I've ever heard. Just him, his aunt, his mom, they're all very close. They would let him occasionally geek out on, you know, with the movie stuff. And whenever we see Krisha smoking, her sister was like, there she is with their cigarets. And they're like, all right. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's great. It was great. Great call, great call. I'm not waves related. So. All right. I had seen one a movie by this director, but I didn't even know I wasn't associating them. So there's a movie that came out last year called memory, Jessica Chastain and Peter Sarsgaard. Okay. The poster is them in a bathtub, like holding each other. So I'm looking at it and it's it's just so stupid that I keep doing this. Judge a book by its cover and went, are it indie, sad, dementia, Alzheimer's? Like, oh, I can wait for streaming like I'm good. Yeah, like I'm good. I've seen this. So the movie's directed by this guy, I. It might be Michelle Franco. He's from Mexico City, so it's Michelle, Michelle Franco, I, you know, sorry about the names. Oh. Nice accent. Yeah. They're never my specialty. Memories. He's made three movies in English. Memories in English. Oh, man. Where this thing went? I did not know it was going to go. And this. This guy writes and directs his own movies. He's like a Mexican, Michael Hennessy, essentially. So it is a very detached style camera back here. And I've seen four of his movies now. And for the first 30 minutes of them are show and they're all short. We're talking like 85, 90 minutes memories a little longer. So the first 30 minutes or so, you're just observing, you're just watching you don't know who has what, what, who's related to who, what's going on or why. And I prom. And there's always a sparseness. There's always a sense of like what's going on. But every single time a movie of his ends, I finished one just before we put this podcast on. You get it? There's no there might be some, like, character questions, but there's nothing ambiguous. You understand? Memory goes to a place that is entirely, articulated. It is never shown. Thank God. Some of the things these characters have been through are difficult, and I want to. I've recommended some movies on the pod and on Twitter that John Klein specifically fan of the pod. John Klein has watched and said like, wow, that one, that one, that one hit me. That was intense. I think this will be kind of the same. I maybe he's even seen it. But when when it was done, I really wanted to know what he thought about it, but it, it goes there. Jessica Chastain is fantastic here. I know you loved her and Tammy Faye. A lot of people did. I was watching me. Is she not fantastic? She this I mean, she was so much better in this than she was in Tammy Faye to me to miss you. Bite your tongue. No. What? Just wait. Man. The Academy Award winner. Yeah. That movie that day. That should have been done for Zero Dark 30. Like that was a makeup I thing I a makeup, I think. I don't know, that's that's a very flashy Oscar performance. It is. It's very this is like down here. Like I got five locks on my doors. You know, Peter Sarsgaard, it's always great. So the movie and I had already seen by him is this one called sundown, starring Tim Roth. It's on Hulu. It's 80 minutes. Go watch it right now. It's the setup is very, very simple. It's like a guy's vacationing with a woman and two children in Mexico. They have to leave quickly and go to the airport. He forgot his passport. So let's go back to the hotel. I'm sorry. You know, I'll meet you at home. I'll meet you at home. He just goes and checks into another hotel. Didn't forget his passport. So that's. You know, we're starting it. It's a director. I've really, really latched on to chronic. Also stars Tim Roth. The cover for it. Oh. Had been, I know chronic. I had been such a visual inspiration for a screenplay. For a screenplay you had written that you were going to want me to shoot when. And if we get to that, there's still there's years to go. There's waves of life to go. But that the poster of it, I was like walking into it. And then the one I just watch before this is called New Order, which is about, if a military dictatorship took over Mexico and it's terrifying and they are all really, really good movies and I have more to go. Michelle or Michael Franco. Franco love them. Memory is a great film. It's all a Paramount plus. Judged by its cover, which was a mistake. Should have seen it. The theater. These are really, really good movies. You would like them to you would a lot. Oh all right. I mean I've seen chronic. Oh, I'm so chronic. Okay. Yeah, yeah. That was a, That was a weird I think I was a, I was a part of film independent and I got a screener for that. Oh. Okay. So that's. I know the cover you're talking about with Tim Roth. Yeah. Holding the old guy. So that's one where. Yeah, right. Until it's final shot, you're it's revealing things to you and you're like, okay, fuck. And yeah, it's a very like the cameras usually you're usually observing and there's not a lot of exposition, but that will not leave you quote unquote cold by the end. Meaning you're not going to feel like, what the fuck was that for? Thankfully, his movies are short, though. You're not sitting here for 2.5 hours with this sense of style. But yeah, whether they are in Spanish or they are in English, his movies are hitting for me and he, I have 1 to 4 left. Time to do. Oh, nice. Yeah. So he's got like eight. Awesome. I love him. Hell, yeah. Hell yeah. This is a really fun episode. Dude. This is went so well. Waves love good shit. Let us know what you think. Waves Krisha everyone's seen Krisha. Trey Edward Shults we are talking about make another movie. Goddamn it, I no, seriously, make another one. It's been five years. Your IMDb says you've been working on one with the weekend forever. And it says it's done. When do I get to see it? I love you, I hope everything's okay, Mr. Schultz. It's not a good sign. Oh, well, I don't know, I don't know, I just want to see something. I really I hope there's something coming soon. They. He keeps talking about the next thing he's working on all throughout the waves. Commentary. And now, five years later, I'm like, well, what is it, dude? Come on. So hopefully we'll see something soon. When he directs something, we'll cover it, don't you worry. Find us on Twitter, Instagram, Letterboxd at W underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hello. Well, hey. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex Withrow. Dot com. Nicholas.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are you Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at wri w underscore podcast. Thank you, Trey Edward Schultz. Thank you, Frank ocean, of course. All right. Real talk for a second, Michelle Franco. I have watched a few more of his movies since recommending memory. I'm still recommending memory, but, Oh. Go carefully with his other movies. His first film. Daniel and Anna and his second film after Lucia. These are two of the most disturbing movies I've ever seen. I'm not even exaggerating. Memory looks like a Disney movie compared to Daniel and Anna. And after Lucia. Definitely proceed with immense caution next time. Wow. I told Nick that I wanted to do waves and that he should pick a movie that was as emotionally important to him. You know what this lunatic picked? You know what our next movie is? That we're covering Roger Avery's exposé of the nihilism of the ruling class. The Rules of Attraction, based on the novel by Brett Easton Ellis. Oh, my. Stay tuned. How'd it go? Oh. So good. So come love me. You know what? You sound good. I'm gonna. Sound gonna.