120: Fixing the Best Picture Oscar

The Oscars never should have touched Best Picture. In 2009, the Academy changed Best Picture from five nominees total, to five-to-10 nominees. If Best Picture had remained only five nominees, which five movies would have been nominated? And which film should have actually won Best Picture?
Alex and Nick look at the Best Picture races from 2009-2023 and revise the Academy’s poor decisions. Stray topics include recent Oscar “snubs,” bad movie trailers, the idiocy of preferential voting, and strongly disliking a movie everyone loves.
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Transcript

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Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex switched on. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there, Alan? Alan. Alan from Barbie. Ah ha. Hi. Hi. I'm Alan. I'm Ken's best friend. I can fit in all of his clothes. I mean, this is as good a time as any to discuss the egregious Oscar snub from this year before we even get going with the episode. Well, before we get into it, because Michael, Sarah was so damn funny in Barbie. I just cannot believe he wasn't nominated. I mean, Ryan Gosling released a statement about it. Hilary Clinton released a tweet about it. We were all waiting for her response on this matter. It's just a crying shame. Damn crying shame. No, no. To listeners, seriously, if a movie is nominated for eight Academy Awards, it was not snubbed by the Academy Awards. If a person is nominated for an Oscar, even if they are not nominated for the specific award that you think they should have been, that person was not snubbed by the Oscars. I've been having so much fun watching people flip out about this for since we recorded our live nominations episode. It's like, here it is again. I decided to like one of the first times in my life it's other people doing the stuff and not me. I'm usually the one who's groaning about like that tiny movie that didn't get any nominations. And I'm like, Well, if you people really knew what was up, you would have nominated this obscure thing that cost, you know, $600,000. That was the real masterpiece of this year. But now I just get to watch everyone else losing their minds over to too little, quote unquote snubs. And it's just it's been great. Most of the people flipping out have no context for like anything. And I'm like people they do this every year. I'm sorry that they're doing it for like the one or two movies that you've seen this year. But they do this every year. Welcome to the party, pal. Yeah, you know, that's actually probably a very fair point to say. The one or two movies you've seen this year because, well, if you're just talking about like the masses. Yes. You know what I mean? I do. Probably true is probably Barb and Heimer were the things that you went and saw and as I'm talking from personal experience, because I've just I've had so many people texting me DMing me asking me about this, people that I don't normally the same people who went to the theater to go to see Barbie, who I like have either never talked to movies about or they never go to the theater or anything. It's these people being like, Do you think this is a snub? Do you think these are snubs? And I'm, you know, calmly replying, No. And then I always ask, I just out of curiosity, I don't even like it's not even a talking point. I just ask, hey, I'm curious how many movies did you see this year? Here's the overall point. When I saw so many people bemoaning about these snubs, 90% of those people complaining about that have never seen nor likely have never heard of Anatomy of a Fall or the zone of interest before Oscar nomination day. So awesome saying is watch those movies and then we can argue about what was snubbed. That's all right. Speaking of snubs, Yes. What about Natalie? Well, that that was yeah, we didn't get a chance to. I did like a very many follow up recording to our Oscar nominations pod, because I'd forgotten about those three. Like for a while there she was the one, I think on the most outside of all three of them. Charles Melton, I thought for a while was like a lock we're talking about made the movie on Netflix did did did receive an Oscar nomination for screenplay which before this whole Barbie thing happened, which I think Barbie is really good chance to win adapted screenplay. I really do now is May-December it after original yes it's big yeah I mean there are look look at him. I'm like, sweating, but. Okay. it's. No, no, it's okay. So May-December, I have I don't know. May-December did get nominated in original screenplay. I think that has a really good chance to be anatomy of a fall. I think. I think it's taken. It has a both of them. They're part. They're partners. Yeah. Justine Tree and Arthur Harari. But yeah, no acting. So no. Julianne Moore. No. Natalie, My Natalie. What is it? Two? I can't even say. Is it too weird because Zone of Interest is nominated for Oscars. So like that weirdness went out the window. I, I was surprised none of them got it. And actress clearly was very, very tight because everyone's talking about the one person who didn't make it in. Yeah, Supporting actress. I did think Julianne Moore had a pretty good chance at that. And then, yes, supporting actor. I mean, I don't know, it seemed like Sterling K Brown kind of made it in there pretty late because that fourth spot was open. So that could have gone to Brown, could have gone to Charles Melton, but it went to Brown for a very good performance. He's the best part of American fiction. I loved him in American fiction. I can't wait to see this movie, because that's like, yeah, I mean, it's it's like, the little movie that kind of could of 20, 23. Like, I don't think there's always that one. Yeah. I don't think a lot of them expected these Oscar nominations and it's cool and it's gotten a lot of people to see it. I was going to say this for what are you watching? But I'm catching up on some like bigger movies. I mean, the Holdovers, American Fiction and the Creator. These are three Oscar nominees. And I thought all of their trailers were very, very bad. I did not like any of their trailers. The creators on Hulu, I fired that up a few days after Oscar announced. It's actually pretty good. I actually liked it. I was like, this is I'm really into this much. Not much, but a better first hour than a second hour, which, you know, that's fine. Who cares? It's not like it was nominated for best picture. But I went, I don't think the trailer did right by this. So I don't know that American fiction to me don't judge it by its trailer. Better movie than that. I've already seen my least favorite trailer so far of the year of 2024 is Madame's Web site. You know, I I'm not saying it's a bad trailer in terms of like it's it's actually a movie that I'm curious to see. But the trailer did the unforgivable sin of just giving me what seems to be the beginning, middle and end. my can. Of course, I'm not calling the movie shots, but there were some things that were revealed in the trailer that I just would have loved to have never known. And if I went and saw that movie, then I would go, shit, I didn't know the movie was going to go here. Now I'm going to be anticipating it. We're talking about the Zendaya movie Challengers. I believe it's called my God. my God. I didn't know you were going here. Unfortunately, I have so much insight into this. I potentially not watch that trailer, but I listen to podcasters who have seen that movie at festivals and they say the trailer gives away everything. everything. You think that's why why would you do that? And it's so bothersome. Whoa, that's cool. I was just thinking to myself, I mean, it's crazy that, like, you've you've identified this as well, That's why. Yeah. And I had no idea that this is being talked about, but it was just the thing where I was like, well, I mean, you literally can, like, cut it by like the screenplay structure. Well, that's the turning point. That's the, this, that's the that. And, and I was like, I really wish I didn't know these things because I'm going to go see this movie. And I'd be like, Yeah, I know this is about to happen. And then I know this is about to happen. and then blah, blah. I never understand these moves, especially when she's the movie can be sold off her name alone. Enough people are going to go see it. You don't need some like trailer giving away. I don't know. Maybe maybe they're like her fans do need to be spoon fed and they do. But it's R-rated. It's like a sex thing. I don't know if it translates to her fans. I don't know. I don't. That's that's so wild to me. I kind of want to go watch the trailer now, but I'll wait till the movie's out because I love Luca Guadagnino. Yeah, spoil that too. Seems idiotic. And she is a star of today's caliber. That, you know, we talk about like that who is a movie star these days. And yeah, I think she actually has a claim to that statement that people will just go see any movie that she's in just because it's in there. All right. We've got to get to the theme of today's episode. Yeah, it's Oscar related. Yeah. Tasker related. We're going to have a lot of fun today. Let's go. I know you're excited because. Because this is my idea. It was my idea because, like, Jaws and because of that asshole you get to host, go. look, What are you ladies? And I wasn't even going to say that, but you got to come out with you. It was your idea. Yes. When I was out there for AM 83, in October, we were kind of shooting the shit just about Oscars. And you said, you know, because best picture has changed so much since the voting changed in 2009, it would be fun to kind of like, you know, loosely and just and just in a fun way go through each year and talk. And then we kept like thrown it around and we're like, Yeah, it'd be fun to talk about what should have just been nominated, the five films that should have been nominated, not what we think it should have been, but what like sometimes they're easy ones to exclude. But if it wasn't this 5 to 10 nonsense or ten nominees, if it was all if it was still just five, what movies would have been nominated? And then which movie should have won Best Picture? And again, this does not mean which movie we personally, subjectively think should have won Best picture. We're putting some Oscar lore into it. We're putting some Oscar history and going, you know, I know for certain that my favorite film of Blank of this year would never win Best Picture, because that's just ridiculous. So I'm going to go with a more like, logical answer and then we're going to argue in each year and it's going to be a lot of fun. And and also, just again, I mean, we do this every single year, but if you could indulge for this episode, explain the rules that I know. I know because I feel like this is why we're doing this. This is it. No, you're right. That's way to tally. It's and we just don't think that it is. I yeah, and I, I've done this on a lot of Oscar episodes, so and I don't even want to say all this stuff again. We're talking about preferential voting for best picture, but I'm just going to burn through it. I actually I went through it record a soundbite because I have all the same bullet points here, but I want to record a soundbite and then just boop and use it. Okay. Preferential voting. So a little history for the Oscars. 2008 is what ruined all of this. When The Dark Knight was not nominated for best Picture. And you can even slightly attach Wall-E to this argument as well because people were upset. They were like, WALL-E should have been nominated for best Picture. But it was really The Dark Knight that was not nominated for best Picture. People lost their minds like the masses lost their minds, and they go, What's the relevancy of the Oscars? And it was that whole thing. So because the Academy Awards are a very reactionary group and they are they buckle under pressure, they listen. They immediately, without warning, say the next year we're doing things differently. We're doing what's called preferential voting, because every other category, every other category is voted on by popularity. Whatever gets the most votes wins. So best director Christopher Nolan gets the most votes this year. He wins. That's very easy to explain. I didn't even have to look that up. Best picture, on the other hand, since beginning in 2009 and still to this day employs a ranked choice voting system known as preferential voting. Voters order all the nominees by preference. If one movie comes away with more than 50% of the first place votes in the first round, that's the best picture winner. But if no movie meets that threshold, then the film with the fewest first place votes is eliminated. People who had ranked that film first will have their votes transferred to their second choices. And so it goes until some movie wins a majority. This, like I copy paste that. I didn't type that a copy paste that from like an Oscar website. I don't even know what that means. I know that's in English, but like, I get how they do it, but it's so confusing and it's so dumb. And this is why this is why we have seen some very questionable movies when Best picture, I think since 2009. Now, I also have to say, please don't think that just because it was popular vote before 2008, I agree with every best picture winner. I agree with very few best picture winners. But I understand how the Academy arrived at that decision. It makes sense. I'm never like, Or the years that I am like, Like 2005 When Crash beats Brokeback Mountain, there is a reason for that. It's not a very positive reason. It's just latent homophobia within the academy. But there's a reason for it. Some years, not every year, but some years since 2009. We just get these baffling best picture winners. That idea are not culturally relevant to me. Maybe they are in like the month or two around Oscar campaign time, but no one talks about these movies anymore, like no one, and that is kind of what we're doing today. We're we're doing a little revisionist history because we think it'll be fun and because this is also a nice little we we speak about this a lot in not just Oscars, but in just in terms of what are the movies that stand the test of time. It's very important conversation to have because when it comes to art, as the years go on, some things fall through the cracks and they're good and they are good. But then there's some things that are like, okay, it's undeniable. This is a movie that we're still talking about 40, 50 years ago. So just looking at the last 10 to 15 years in this, like the movies that will will bring up, you're gonna be like, yeah, that's right. That movie. This movie. Yeah. And what are the movies that, like, are still being talked about today that either one or didn't win? What's cool is we have 15 years to go through that. This current year is the 15th. So it's a little different because we technically do not know what is won best picture, but we can certainly, you know, debate about the nominees. What should have been the five. The Oscars are a reactionary group. As we said this this was a big change. This is a change that we really thought that I'm still hoping they revert back to and go back to the five. I don't know if that's going to happen. I wonder and I saw a lot of people I was engaging with people on Oscar nomination day about this very topic with with these snubs of Greta Gerwig not getting in it. Director Do we now go to ten best director nominees and then best director becomes preferential voting? And then is it? Well, let's just make every major category. So actor, actress and then, well, why not? Let's do every category. Are we close to that? I don't know. I don't know. The Oscars are very, very different now as well, even from 2008, because when OscarsSoWhite became a thing in 2000, the morning of Oscar nominations in 2015, which were four for the performances in 2014, the Academy's completely different from those ten years ago in terms of their size, There's about 10,000 members now as opposed to 3000 way more diverse in terms of age, race, gender, all that stuff. And I'm here for that. That's all good. That's all. Yeah, I'm that's that's a good change. But I still wish everyone was voting on five movies per category. And I actually think most people agree with us on this. I do. I don't think many people are down for the ten names for best Picture. Or do you think what would be a change would be if you made the ten, you kept the ten and then you did it? Exactly what you're saying. Make ten nominees for best director, ten nominees for acting or acting. Ten nominees for the actor categories. That is the actor in from now on. But you got rid of the preferential voting style like it was all just, All right, who gets the most votes? I'm totally into that. I totally love to see that, that I don't know if that would happen. I would be it. I should be clear, too. It's the preferential voting that's the problem. It's not the technical problems. It's the preferential voting that is very confusing, that the average there's 10,000 members of the academy. The average member does not understand this stuff. We get to see like anonymous ballots. So we get to hear people groaning about this. They don't know how this works. And there's a lot of groaning of, well, so does my does best picture even matter? Like with this ranking like that, if I put up with this ranking, if I put something third that could end up winning and getting the most votes, like, what are you talking about? This doesn't I don't know. The thing I would always love. They would never, ever, ever do. This is if just one year, one year they would treat it like sports and let us know the final tally of nominees like how many votes each person got. They would never, ever do it, but at least they wouldn't do it for, you know, the acting categories. But they would do it but just do it for where where you're not isolating individuals. Like if they did it for best picture, that would be awesome. Like if we were back at popular vote and you told us this is how many you got this year. Because I would always love to know that, especially in the years I'm talking about, we're trying to get to where some of the best picture winners are a little bit baffling. And I'm like, How close was this? Did this like, was this a squeaker? Like, did this just barely pull off a win? I would love to know what the second place was, but, you know, that's again, that's a that is a pipe dream. They will never do that. Never One can dream. One can always. So let's get going. We're going to start with 29. We're going to go through each year. And there's two things we're going to do. We're going to talk about what the five nominees should have been, and then we're going to talk about what the best picture winner should have been. And I think some years given at least when I was going through some years, really jumped out at me more than others. Others were like, yeah, this kind of makes sense. In some years. I'm like, What the fuck? The first one actually. All in all, kind of makes sense. And I don't really have much to like, disagree with. And I think the five nominees are extremely easy to call out, but you ready to get going? I'm ready. Teared up, Teared up 2009 I'll I'll I'll say the year the winner and then the nominees 2009 was the year the Hurt Locker won. It was nominated alongside Avatar the Blind Side District nine in Education, Inglourious Basterds. Precious, a serious man up and up in the air, even saying some of those titles like The Blind Side Know District nine. You may like that movie, No Up. No, Those movies are never getting nominated the year before. Never. So let's talk about what I don't know about. Up, up, up. Okay. Right When I said that, Nick's eyebrows went up. So what up, which actor you go way today. So. Well, okay, let's go through them, I think. Where are you going to go? Here's what I think would have been nominated. Avatar, Inglourious Basterds, The Hurt Locker, Precious Up in the air. That's what I think our five nominees were. What do you think it would have been? All right. So I went with Avatar, Inglourious Basterds, The Hurt Locker, up and up in the air. Okay. Yeah, that's I in my notes. I said, I think up is the outlier. I think up could, you know, kind of squeak in here now. Animated movies had been nominated before Beauty and the Beast was the first to be nominated for best Picture. But it's incredibly rare. And I don't know how many times it really would have happened total if we didn't have these ten nominees thing. Also, keep in mind, Precious was a huge thing in 2009 and Lee Daniels became one of the first black people ever nominated for best director. If not the first. I apologize that I don't know that off the top of my head, but it was a thing. It was a huge deal. And even in 2009, that was my favorite movie that I call Precious, my favorite movie of that year. So I don't know if Bob saw Precious, but I don't know. And it's an interesting point. The reason I think that's actually a very good call and I think the reason that I actually put up in there is because I remember how widely successful that movie was. It was during 2009. So I was thinking about a putting a movie in that's that has that kind of that kind of star power. I did that a couple of times in here. But I think I think you are right about having Precious in there. Yeah. I mean, that's the harder one to kind of go back and forth, but up is yeah, that's what I had at six. But again there are clear ones like in education, I like that movie but that's not a best picture nominee. Yeah. Like it's so sometimes some of them really, really jump out at us regardless of whether it was up or precious. This was the avatar versus Hurt Locker race. And I thought they went with the best winner. I thought they picked The Hurt Locker. That was the right decision. No, no argument for me. I agree. Alex. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. We're starting off here. Well, it's nice to start off. Just like when you're making a movie. You want to try to start your your shoot with a nice little gentle day of filming, and then you jump right to 2010, which is the like the nadir of your shoot. The hardest day, the biggest one, 2010. The Kings speech wins. It's fellow nominees were Black Swan, The Fighter, Inception. The Kids are all right 127 hours. The Social Network, Toy Story three True Grit and Winter's Bone. My five nominees. It's a little tough, actually. This is kind of tough. This is what I came down to. And I will say my sixth I'm not going to say it, but my sixth very close to six was Toy Story three. I think Toy Story three would have had a better chance then up because I think up would have not gotten the best picture nomination. Then when Toy Story three came along, people would have been like, All right, like hold the fucking phone here. We got to nominate this thing. But I still, I didn't even include it. Here are my five, The Fighter, Inception, The King's Speech, The Social Network, and True Grit. I. Okay, this is interesting, and this might be a little bit biased, but I do agree with this. I went with Black Swan, Inception, Social Network, True Grit and Toy Story three The situation where I don't even have The King's Speech in my nominees. I love this. I love this. Okay, I did okay. I didn't track that toy Story three. I could maybe swap for The Fighter. I you know, The Fighter got seven nominations. It's also not a 1 to 1 ratio that the movies, the five movies that got the most nominees, those are 1 to 1 automatically. The movies that were nominated for best picture. Sometimes they throw in like a fun wrench. Like, you know, they'll do that sometimes. So it just because the movie was nominated for like, you know, eight Oscars doesn't mean it's necessarily a lock to get a best picture nominee. It happens. Yes. Okay. So you this is the first instance of you not having you don't even think that King's Speech would be nominated. I do, unfortunately, because it's a Weinstein movie. And we're going to I'm going to say that name a few times. He he got buried, rightfully so, in 2017, but he was still a factor in a lot of these awards. And that I think I think he is the reason why this one. I think that's what happened, that he kind of bulldozed his way over the social network. But I love that you don't have it here. I would I was debating about Black Swan. I was like, I don't know, Black Swan or The Fighter. Like the Fighter. God, I don't know. That's a tough one. But then Toy Story three, it could be a little bit more lenient on. I do think that one could sneak in. And you know what? I'm noticing this as we're going through this right now, I can tell I think I know what I'm doing personally is I think I am lead I'm leading with a direction that I think the Oscars should go in as opposed to how they've always gone. Yeah, I'm going to keep going with it because it's an interesting it's an interesting course. It's just about making your case. Just so. Yeah, make make the case. Yeah, I suppose. Now, granted, yes, Inception is in my top ten of all time and I did put that in this nomination. But I think that's because when I when you look back to 2010, I don't think Inception would have gotten the nomination because because Hollywood at that time for the Academy, they never really gave a lot of credit to those big unless they were a certain type of movie. But Inception really is just a cool action flick, and that was the snub of that year, was that no one did not get nominated for director. So you could be on to something here. Yeah. And so, you know, it was rare for a big blockbuster star like that to get a nomination. And I think now that we're in the years that we're in now, this is the direction of movies. You know, you get these nominations for Dune in Top Gun two, Maverick, and arguably some of the best movies of those years. Is this sort of a direction that we're leaning into now? And I think I actually put Inception in for this category thinking about that. So it's just an interesting kind of like little conversation to be had about what was and what could be happening now. I think the reason why that's happening now and why more of those movies get in is because there's still ten damn nominees. I don't think if there were these. Yeah, that's why people may not remember this for 2003, when Lord of the Rings, Return of the King Swept, it was which was a huge deal. Like it was huge, huge deal when Titanic swept because not only was Titanic derided and a year before the movie came out that this is going to be the biggest piece of shit ever. James Cameron's well, I mean, the press was just like devouring that movie alive. And then it came out. It was always a big deal when the biggest movie of the year also won Best Picture or was the front runner. So, yeah, these are huge blockbusters. I get it. Inception never would have had a chance, I don't think, to win Best Picture nominated or not even and you know, real life. But you know, you know what's funny when we talk about Time is True Grit a movie that I like, but I looked what got the most nominations this year? That was number two, The King's Speech got 12 nominations total, which is why I do think it would be nominated for best pic. But then True Grit got ten and I'm like, It did. And I like that movie. But that movie does not have the staying power that the movie they made three years earlier. No Country for Old Men, which people still talk about all the time, or Fargo 96 is just funny. It's funny. I don't hear a lot of people talking about True Grit a lot, but you and I like that movie. Like we just put that on once a year just watching it because we like it. But it's funny, you know, I like talking about time awards. I like that. What should have won best picture this year? Nick I just don't think that there's any doubt in anyone's mind. It's like with without a shadow of that doubt, it's the social network. Absolutely. The social network. It's you can't just. Come on, girl. I mean, that was that was a huge bummer at the time. A huge bummer. The relevancy of that movie then and now is the same. And and it's in it's evolving in in its like whole entire progression of where we're going as a society. And I think it's also like said that I think that's one of the most important movies of this entire century so far. Yeah, it absolutely is. You're right. And it's that was one that was glaring to me in the moment when I went, No one's going to be talking about The King's Speech a year from now, let alone what do we have 14 years from now? No one talks about it. It's just people talk about it because it won Oscars. If it had not won Oscars and if Weinstein had not bulldozed it to the Oscars stage, then I don't think. Whereas people still talk about the social network so much. People talk about the social network like it won best picture and and even looking. They do and even looking at this list of categories you can actually like, people still talk about Inception, people still talk about Black Swan. Yes, people still talk about Toy Story three. I actually do hear some things, at least on Twitter, about True Grit. Okay, good, good. Glad it's out there. I'm glad we don't hear much about the kids are all right. We don't hear much about 127 hours. So like these are some of the movies that you see that kind of just really fall through. It's like a very, very interesting good year, though. Good year. Yeah. 2010. I didn't like the year as it was happening, but it's yeah, there are some pretty good nominees here. They just fucked up the end game. As I like to say, they didn't award good stuff this next year stuff. Yeah, we did a whole podcast on this year. This is a tough one. This is a very tough one. The artist wins. That is another. That is another. Weinstein distributed movie. It's fellow nominees, The Descendants, extremely loud and incredibly close. The Help, Hugo Midnight in Paris, Moneyball, The Tree of Life. War Horse. War, Horse, Baby War Horses. Wow. That movie is just like a giant piece of shit like that. Arable. It's so bad if it were only five nominees. Please also keep in mind that we're talking about if it were only five nominees in 2011, because the director of one of these movies is persona non grata. If it were only five nominees The Artist, The Help, Hugo Midnight in Paris, and my outlier here, The Tree of Life. Tree of Life did not get a lot of total names that year, but they did it in 1998 with the Thin Red Line. The Tree of Life did win the Palme d'Or. So I do think it would get the fifth slot home, man. We got, I think I think you're right. And I went with different choices, though. Like me, I'd really love with my heart in this one. I wanted The Descendants Midnight in Paris, Moneyball, Tree of Life and the Artist. And looking at it now, I just don't think that that's probably accurate. I think you're right. I think the help would definitely be in there. The Help was such a thing. It was such a huge thing. All right. And then keep in mind the most nominated film of the year. And that was Hugo. Yeah, Hugo got nominated for a shitload of Oscar. yeah. Hugo got a shit ton. Yeah. I'll take out Moneyball and put in the help. Yeah, I know. I feel your pain. I know. It's a bummer. It's a bummer. Moneyball. Such a good movie. I guess you got to get that for Hugo in there. And I would take out. I would take out. I think I had to take out The Descendants because. Yeah, because I think Midnight in Paris. Was that what my name is? A that was a big frontrunner. People talk about the movie a lot. Yeah. So okay, so now that you reorganized it, what do you have? Hugo Midnight in Paris, The Help Tree of Life and the Artist. so we match now? We perfectly match. Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think 100% right. I don't. Well, the one that I'm could be very off on is the Tree of Life because that just got three nominations total, including this best picture nominee. But that's one it was my real like outlier I'm like, I don't know, maybe. But The Descendants got more names. War Horse got more nominees. We got a lot. Yeah, well, this is the interesting thing, though, about that movie. And again, as we look at what's still talked about to this day, Tree of Life is regarded. This is my first note. Yes. And of course, that movie is not for everybody revered as that movie is. It's also hated a lot because of its abstract ness. Sure. So but to be said like that is a movie that has stood the test of time over the course of these years. I have a note here. Totally agree. My note was that of all these nominees, I don't think I'm being biased about this. I really try not to be, but I feel like the Tree of Life and Moneyball are the only movies that people talk about that I see people talking about. Yeah, in Mass, that may not have been the case in 2011, but it's just it's a really sad year because even though because we are not, you know, writing in our own nominees, that would be just way too confusing to get too much work. We're going with what they gave us and then we're whittling what they gave us down to five. But because we're not going with we're not writing our own nominees, like the five movies we listed, they're just not it's not a good representation of the year, as it were. Like, Yeah, same here. We're shame everyone now, of course, that. Jesus, I know. Of course. You know, as we arrive at what I think should have won best picture, if I think the nominees were the artists, The Help, Hugo, Midnight, Paris and the Tree of Life. I'm sad to say it makes sense that they went with the artist based on what was nominated. They were never, ever, ever going to give something like The Tree of Life. Best picture. Yeah. Midnight in Paris was not going to be a best picture contender. Or Hugo is just kind of a kid's movie. And I and I don't think they would have ever gone there, even though it got the most nominations. So The Artist is a love letter to cinema. Back when They love that, they don't really like that as much anymore. Well, it's like a kind love letter. Babylon is like a love letter and a middle finger. And they don't like the middle finger part so much. Yeah. So all a long way of saying that the artist winning actually makes sense. And I think that with these nominees, it makes sense that they went with that. Not happy about it. No one talks about this movie. I knew no one was going to be talking about this movie, though. The first moment I saw it. I seen it once in theaters. Perfectly fine movie. It's nice. It's like gentle. This is not one that has a lot of cultural relevance. I would say, you know what I'm going to because I'm already all over the map on this here. I'm just going to play devil's advocate. Go forward of this conversation. I'm going to go with the help, because I think that if it was because I think you're 100% right, if you're looking at if those are the five nominees, they're not going to give it to Tree of Life, even though now, as we're talking that movie is talked about a lot, they're not going to give it to midnight in Paris. They're not going to give it to Hugo or this. The Help is a movie that I think is still talked about today. And I think if you're looking at the two between the artists and the Help just for the sake of debate, I'll go with the help for this one. Yeah, that's I think that movie's talked about a lot. I see it in a lot of the time, but. Well, it is. Yeah. It was a big deal in 2011. We talked about very recently that Viola Davis was really the frontrunner and not a lock, but close to being a lock for best actress. And then Meryl Streep, good old Meryl Streep, swung in there for The Iron Lady and it's like, that's strange. But all right, here's a question. Yes, we know that the artist did win. Yes. And we know how we feel about that now. Like, who's talking about the artist? What if the Help did win? What would we be saying about that now if that was the case? It's it's a very interesting conversation because our I mean, the academy and culture writ large has changed a lot as it relates to. Yes. Race. And I find now that that film is not remembered well at all. I've even heard Viola Davis say it's a big regret of her career just because she didn't think the movie was executed well and she felt that it focused on the wrong characters. I personally was never a fan of the movie, but, you know, it's just my opinion. Who cares? I don't know. It would have been there would have been a lot of people complaining, We'll put it that way. A lot of people were up in arms and complaining. I wouldn't have been because I don't. The artist versus the Help. I'm kind of blasé on both. Like I don't I don't really care either way. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it would have been an interesting conversation for where the Academy was in terms of diversity and stuff. Yeah, what the hell? 2012 man, what a this is crazy. 2001 The winner was the improbable winner was Argo. Fellow nominees like yourself, a moore Beasts of the Southern Wild, Django Unchained, Les Miserables, Life of Pi, Lincoln, Silver Linings Playbook, Zero Dark 30. I'm not a fan of a lot of these nominees, so it was tough to whittle this down to five. But I'm actually doing what you did in 2010. I'm doing this twice in this podcast episode. I do not think Argo would have been nominated for best picture. I truly do not think if it was five nominees, I think Ben Affleck wouldn't have gotten director and I do not think Argo would have been nominated for picture. I don't the same. You don't know? Not necessarily. I mean, the movie got seven nominations total. There were four movies above it. I don't know. I don't know. But it's tough. So then what replaces it? So I think lame is unfortunately lame. Is Life of Pi Lincoln in Silver Linings Playbook. I think those four are in. So then what does the fifth spot go to? Does it go to Amour, which in the past they weren't very keen on nominating a foreign language film for best picture. It happens all the time now because there's ten nominees, but also with that diversity in the academy, that just wasn't just about racial diversity. They added so many more international people, people like Jonathan Glazer. This is why Jonathan Glazer's nominated this year. This is why Justin Tree is nominated this year because they added so many more international people to the directors branch. So I don't know if that would have happened with more. Is it Django Unchained? It's kind of hard to turn your back on Quentin Tarantino. His movies get nominated for Picture lot, so that's what I put. Django would be the fifth spot. All right. So I got in here, Argo, Django Unchained, Lincoln, Life of Pi in Zero Dark 30. So no limits. No No silver linings. No silver linings. But if I had to take one out, if I feel like they were either lame is would go in there. Probably in I guess if I was picking it over Django Yeah well weird thing to think about, but I do think Argo would have made it into that best picture. I did not expect it to win. Yeah, same in that. And that it wasn't my pick too, even though I had it nominated. It's not what I what I have. But yeah, what a weird year. Well, it's a weird year because we're talking about cultural relevancy like, I don't need to go off on my Silver Linings Playbook stance again, but a lot of people do not talk about these movies. But if you look below at other movies that were nominated, people, I do think Slight gets discussed a lot. Denzel was nominated for actor. The Master gets discussed a lot. That was nominated for picture Zero Dark 30 is here. It wasn't a nominee's Skyfall gets talked about a lot. That's not in the best picture nominees. So I just don't think a lot of people are talking about Life of Pi. No, I don't think a lot of people are talking about Beasts of the Southern Wild. They're they're not. No. And both those movies they're not even talking about Liam is. They are not. No. If anything lameness gets made fun of because of Russell Crowe, that's the most that I hear about that movie now. Yeah, I yeah, I was not a fan of that. I saw it once. I was not a fan. I do think Silver Linings Playbook was more of a thing than Zero Dark 30, which is why I think in Silver Linings was Weinstein vehicle. So he's really hard to count out. Also, Zero Dark 30 that was the most controversial movie of the year and of the Oscar season. Kathryn Bigelow kind of got put into directors jail about it because people were really, really, really upset over the depiction of torture in that movie. And I, I had this argument in 2012. I will always maintain this argument. She's not depicting stuff that did not happen. Everything that she's depicting happened. If you don't want to, you know, buy a ticket and see it, I totally get that. But I yeah, I thought that controversy was a bit ridiculous, but it was it was a very controversial film even in 2012. So I think that may have blocked it. And then that leaves us with like just some a really like milquetoast batch of movies like Life of Pi Lincoln. Keep in mind, I don't think Argo would have been nominated. So what the hell wins best picture, then? I mean, they're not going to give it to Django. Come on. They're not going to give it to Is it silver lining? So I think that gets in. Ang Lee won director for Life of Pi. Does it get in? Does Lincoln getting is it safe? I don't I honestly because I don't think Argo would get nominated I don't know what I think was second place this year because Argo did win right. So what do we actually think in real life? What do we second place? I bet Silver Linings Playbook did. I bet that came in second. I thought, well, that's what I think anyway. But I don't know. Well, what did you put four winners. You put Argo because it did win. No, no, I didn't. I Zero Dark 30. Wow. But I, I think I am also once again looking at it through the lens of time. I think I know what you're doing here. You're doing like what would have been like the best decision for the Academy to make the movie that has like those staying power. I get that What I'm kind of doing is what I think would have made most sense to the Academy time and all of their quote unquote, infinite wisdom at the time. Yeah, So it's just two different approaches. That's fine, though. It allows us to have slightly different conversations, which I like, because I think I honestly think if Argo was not nominated, they probably would have gone with Life of Pi or Lincoln. I think that's what they would have done because those both one major Oscars like Lincoln, one actor, Life of Pi, one director, Life of Pi, actually still with the in real life won the most Oscars. It won for that year. Argo won three. I don't know. So maybe it would have been Life of Pi. But I do think absolutely culturally the winner they could have done was Zero Dark 30. I totally agree. Yeah and I think you're right about silver linings May have been that second choice though because that movie was huge. It was a huge was it was a real big thing. It's crazy that I don't know. I mean, this is a tough one to kind of like lay all that out for all those reasons. Yeah. Yeah. And and because we'll never have to worry about actually going back and changing this. I'm just going to stick with my answer on this because I like it. I don't know what what do people think about that movie now? Zero Dark 30? I think it's talked about in a better light now than was because I remember all this controversy. Yeah, the controversy, I think, has died down a lot because, like we we just know more about what actually went on there. There have been so many documentaries. The veterans themselves have talked about it like we know the type of shit that was going on and that Yeah, that I yeah, I think it's remembered much better now. And actually that movie really holds up like that. That gets put along. Does Ali really loves it. She was like, Holy fuck. Because it cooks. It absolutely cooks. And that still might be my favorite. I don't and I don't remember what we said. I remember you said what you said in the Chastain episode, the one that you want to bring. That's your favorite. I did I say Zero Dark 30. I honestly don't remember. But it's it still is right up there. If I didn't say that, then it's it's one or two. I know. And and her performance got so criticized at the time of being so like, flat and emotionless. And I was like, no, no, no, no. There's so much I totally understand this person. I absolutely get this person. This person can't reveal aspects about their humanity at work. She's just she's a spy for the CIA. Like, yeah. God, I loved it. I think it's a side of her we have rarely seen before since I love that movie. Yeah, maybe that's my post show. I usually put on a movie after we record here. I see. Again. I'll fired up over there. Thanks. Thanks. Fired up and tortured. No, that's rude. But you know what I mean. This movie is fucking nuts. The beginning of that movie, Jason Clarke. He's the main teacher. You know, the main torturer. Yeah. You can ask any way you like. What would you pick for the winner then? you put Zero Dark 30. Yeah, I'm picking Zero Dark 30, and I'm going to stick with it because it also would have been a very cool, ballsy move of the academy at that time. Did Yeah. Yeah. And I think that would have been a good call. Even though I did enjoy Argo, I did enjoy that movie. I don't know about the best picture part. Yeah, yeah, that was that was a surprise. Then that happened because he did not get nominated for director. And I thought I thought maybe a star is born in 2018 would have the same fate. An actor who, you know, he wasn't nominated for director, but it didn't go that way. And then that will that happened this year. I don't think it's going to happen, but I do think that boosts Barbie's chances for adapted screenplay. Not in picture. I don't think Barbie is going to win picture, but her not being in there for director, I think people are like, we need to give her an Oscar for this movie. The only other way to do that is in Adapted Screenplay. This 2013 we switched gears. Yep, The winner was 12 Years a Slave. It's fellow nominees American Hustle, Captain Phillips, Dallas Buyers Club, Gravity, Her Nebraska Philomena, The Wolf of Wall Street. What I think would have been nominated, I thought 12 Years a Slave, American Hustle, Dallas Buyers Club, Gravity. And my kind of outlier here was The Wolf of Wall Street. Not sure about that one, but just like it's hard to count Spielberg out. Too hard to count Tarantino out. It's hard to count Scorsese out from a Best Picture race, but those are my five. What did you have? So I'm changing one because you've made me think all out. I went with what I think would have been nominated 12 Years a Slave. Her The Wolf of Wall Street, Dallas Buyers Club and Gravity. So you swapped out her for American Hustle? Yes. Make the case and then I'll make my case. My very unfortunate case. All right. All right. So my case for her over American Hustle, her was one of those indie movies that came out that everyone thought was so original. And it and, you know, you had like, that best actor in Joaquin Phenix type thing going on. There's the original writing of it all that. So I guess basically my long winded way of saying is I think the originality of her would have been put into that best picture category over the stereotypical American Hustle Oscar stuff. Well, I guess because the Wolf of Wall Street is the is the risk one to put in there. So I think if you Yeah, I so okay. Here's what's crazy about this. I think even if you switch her in Dallas Buyers Club that's a little more believable because like Joaquin Phenix was not nominated for her that he's not able for best actor. It did win best original screenplay, which is great. The most nominated film of 2013 is American Hustle. They got more nominees in Gravity, and that to me, it was crazy because it's this is the thing that happens with the Academy sometimes, and it may happen this year. They do this very odd thing where they will nominate one movie for ten Oscars and give it. Nothing happened here. Didn't win a single thing. Yeah. Gangs of New York, The Irishman. Will that happen with Killers of the Flower Moon? It's happened two more directors than Scorsese, David or Russell. But it has happened. It's like a thing. And it's weird when it happens. But either way, we agree that 12 Years a Slave would be nominated, which I definitely think is true and Gravity, but I don't know her, was definitely like, Well, no Dallas Buyers Club. I was going to say her was the indie movie that could that year, but it was Dallas Buyers. Yeah, that movie was such a thing. And I man, I do not think I didn't like that movie at the time. No, but I don't think that has aged well really at all. I think you're right. I think I got to get American Hustle in there. So I think I'll, I'll take out her and I think if I'm looking at that time, it would have been 12 Years a Slave, American Hustle, Wolf of Wall Street, Dallas Buyers Club and Gravity. And then, yeah, this is kind of I'm sweating now. This is this is what I'm saying. And what's what's interesting is that neither of us have Captain Phillips, but that actually got nominated for six awards like that. Got nominated for more awards than her than The Wolf of Wall Street. Pretty decent year in terms of even the ones we're excluding. That's it's kind of interesting. I still think I thought then and think now that 12 Years a Slave was a great choice to win best picture. That's what I have. It's a phenomenal feat of filmmaking. It really is. I really thought it was a wise decision. I would have loved, loved knowing that he won again in 2018. Alfonso Cuaron did. I would have loved it. Steve McQueen actually won best director this year, but it was always going to be Curtains for Gravity, and that's well-deserved. Gravity is also an extreme and extremely impressive cinematic feat. Yes, it is. Yeah. Very cool. All right. Next year we talked about 2014 a lot on the old pod here on what are you watching? Birdman wins. It's fellow nominees, American Sniper, Boyhood, the Grand Budapest Hotel, The Imitation Game, Selma, The Theory of Everything, Whiplash. Well, there's some questionable films on there. If there is, there was only five nominees. I think we're looking at American Sniper, Birdman, Boyhood, Grand Budapest Hotel, and The Imitation Game. Let me make the case for The Imitation Game really quick. Talk about a movie no one talks about at all. This movie got eight Oscar nominations, won adapted screenplay. And the only reason that happened is because it was distributed by Harvey Weinstein. I really think that it was dude, truly baffling that I mean, that's the influence he had. He would get actors nominated, he would get writers Oscars. He he did the same thing for Good Will Hunting, a movie we all like. Like he did it for that, too. And he was doing it. You know, for stuff like The Imitation Game. But this is a tough one for me because I'm like, I didn't even put The Imitation Game because I saw that once in the theater. And I'm like, you know, there there goes that. But yeah, it was it was the thing, the biggest the most nominated films in order. Birdman, Grand Budapest Hotel, Imitation Game, American Sniper, Boyhood. I didn't even know what I was thinking when I do this, now that you put it in perspective like this, but this is what I had about Christ. I had no exactly similar to you, American Sniper, Boyhood, Birdman, the Grand Budapest Hotel. And I had whiplash. And then I had whiplash with Whiplash. You know, that that would have never That's okay. That is something we would have do that would have never happened. Getting that a best no picture nomination, putting it in. It's like that in the fifth slot. It's not out of the question. If they were going to do that. It's not the question. The movie won, Oscars won, I believe it won three. I want to try to guess without looking them up. It was nominated for five. I believe it won Supporting actor editing. And it's one of the sound sounder. You know, I think it's got to be the sound. Yeah. Yeah. And that could have happened. I also could have seen the Theory of everything Replace something, replace Imitation Game or American Sniper. I guess in a perfect world, I would have had whiplash be in there. And then, yeah, me picking that is the win is completely me looking at it with the lens we have now because that movie is revered now, everyone, no one stops talking about how good whiplash is. We we have a lot that are revered. Let's just look at our top five. That would have been is true. It's a good year. Some people may not like American Sniper because of its politics or whatever. People talk about that movie. That movie was a fucking hit. They do came out. Birdman. People still talk about that boyhood, the Grand Budapest Hotel. It was it was a good year. Now we get to have the Birdman versus Boyhood, you know, conversation again, my in my perfect world, in my absolute perfect world, I would have had Birdman win picture. That's what I think should have won. It did. And then I would have had Richard Linklater when director because Inarritu is going to win one the next year and that's great. But yeah, I really, really that would have been my perfect world. Perfect. I completely agree with with that, I think. Do you still think Whiplash would have should have won? No, no, no. I go with Birdman. People are lucky we're not doing director or actor. I might be a little meaner on here. Remember? Actor 2014. Jesus Christ, Fucking Eddie Redmayne. Eddie Burns me, It burns me. He got firmed the way that he the way that Eddie Redmayne ran that campaign. His last name is verbally in Hollywood of getting red maned, meaning that they are running their Oscar campaign so aggressively that they are calling writers, you know, like a Hollywood reporter, writers, variety writers. They're calling publicists, they're calling. They're going to every single event and just hoping to chip away one vote at a time to get it. And that is what he did. Hey, he won and he got it. Whatever. It's a tough year. Coming up in 2015, we had our eventual winner spotlight nominees, The Big Short, Bridge of Spies, Brooklyn, Mad Max, Fury Road, The Martian. The Revenant Room. Not the easiest to whittle down to five for me. Here's what I had. Bridge of Spies, Mad Max Fury Road. The Martian. The Revenant. Spotlight. I don't know, though. No one talks about Bridge of Spies, but it got nominated for six Oscars, I think Mad Max, Fury Road, The Martian, The Revenant and Spotlight are actually all in. But I even spotlight like wasn't I don't know, Spotlight got as many names as Carol did Total but like I don't know I would have nominated Carol over Spotlight. What do you have, though? What do you have? Then? We'll get into it. So this was one where I really actually I think I thought a lot more like how you're thinking. Okay, So I had Spotlight eight the Big Short, Mad Max Fury Road, The Revenant, and maybe I don't because I think British spies would probably be what the Academy would take, but I actually threw in room as that outlier of that indie because, I mean, what do you got? I don't know. Have we ever done this yet? No, no, I was just going, boy, is this is this the time we did it? We did it ages ago, and I cut it. I cut it. Are you cut it? Yes. Is this the forum? Maybe. I built it up already. Too much. Maybe we have to. So we. If we're going to do it, let's just fucking do it and rip the Band-Aid off this good. All right, folks, this is guy. This is really triggering for a lot of people listening. Skip, potentially cancel. What are you watching? Episode 120 Podcast. So here's the thing, guys. Everyone listening. I'm going to say something and we're going to say something. Now, I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm really, really not. This happens as a lifelong lover of movies. Sometimes there is a movie that comes out that everyone and their mom and their dad seemingly just love, and they fucking love this to the end of time. And I can even say that these movies are bad. I actually say that because that wouldn't be accurate as a film fan. Lord of the Rings, Return of the King. O Lord of the Rings Movies are not for me. I saw them each once in the theater, but I'm not like, How the hell did that third one win all those Oscars? I totally understand how it won the Oscars. It's a technical achievement. I get it. But this is all by way of saying that the film Mad Max Fury Road is not for me in any capacity, and it never will be. Nope. Me neither. And very, very oddly. You agree this is actually, you know, the biggest movie that you and I agree on. We have a disparity with the masses. We are in such the minority about it that I'm just here to tell you, like I was there. I was there opening weekend, sold out with people cheering in the theater. And when I tell you that I did not have the slightest idea what was going on, just none. And I was looking around at like, did everyone in here collectively, like take drugs, like all together before we started? Because you're having an experience that I have no idea what's going on with all of you. I just I did not get it. I walked out completely baffled. It was the only movie in L.A. that people talked about that summer, like it was ever boring. I just had to shut. I just had to be quiet about it. I wasn't going girl. Being like, That movie sucks. That's that movie's garbage. I just stopped, like bringing it up. And when people would ask me about it, I would usually say like, yeah, it wasn't really for me because I so. So that was 2015. I've tried, I have tried. I have. I tried after COVID hit in 2020 and I found it again. Please don't cancel us. I found it unthinkable. I turned it off and I, I went, I am so bored that if you think I'm doing a bit, I'm not. I'm not. I don't like this movie. And then I tried. When you brought it up, you recommended Mad Max two, I think as a what are you watching? And one of the very long read about Fury Road. And I was like, That's a little too that was like really early in our podcast run here. So I cut it. But yeah, that, that is the biggest movie kind of disparity in my life with people. That is the movie that I do not get. That is not for me that you all love more than anything, ever. People, people understand me about the Lord of the Rings stuff. They're like, All right, Yeah. You didn't read the book. Yeah, Yeah. See, like, I get it. I get it. Mad Max Fury Road. I tried a total of three times, and I've this the third time, I think it was wasn't last year. It must have been 2022 and I was annoyed that I hadn't finished it in 2020. So I'd like to shut up, sit down and watch it and like pay attention, put the phone away. I did. And I was genuinely bored to tears. And Dan, friend of the Pod. Dan loves this movie and adores it. And I remember texts him going, But the first time you watched it, were you able to track everything? And he's like, Well, no, no one can. And I go, okay. And I don't even need a movie to carry me like that. I don't need to be able to track everything. I just I don't, man. And a lot of the women like that are chained up really close. They're like, I like everyone in the movie. I think everyone's done it. One. Yeah. yes, I get it. George Miller It's so great that he came back to do this. As far as it goes in the history of cinema, like I'm for it. Steven Soderbergh loves this movie. Like every living director loves this movie. It just ain't for me. And it's never going to be that it. I'm done. I don't think it's like a poorly made piece of business. No. I think on the technical level of all of this and that, I mean, it's impressive, but I just don't like it. That's really what it comes down to. I remember seeing it in the theaters. It was one of those moments where I walked out in the everyone is just out of the theaters, just like just completely going apeshit for it. And I go, I must have something I must like. I think I was I was like, bored. Like I got to see it again. So I went and I saw it a second time and I saw a second time and I just go, All right, no, it's this. I know. I just I'm this. This is a no for me. And especially because I'm such a fan of the original Mad Max movies and particularly the second one, my argument that I always say, but I don't ever bring this up because I don't want to piss people off, because when you tell someone you don't like Mad Max Fury Road, you've instigated something, you have no world of pain. They look at it and they're like, How the fuck can you call yourself a movie fan when you don't like that movie? Yes, I go insult that. I don't I don't know what to tell you. Just it's just not for me. And I can name you a thousand movies that I love that if you watched, you would be aghast that any human being alive likes that. But you would look at me and go, How the hell could you like that movie? I know we're all different. I've been called a cinematic idiot because I don't like this movie. This is what it's like every year. I still sometimes and it doesn't come up much, but everything everywhere. Some people will be like, why don't I know it? Yeah, yeah. Like, what are you a contrarian for not liking that? And I'm like, Do you want to go? Do you want to go like this? I can go in on it if you want, but there's no you know, I don't prefer to do that. I don't want to like shit on these movies over and over and over, movies that aren't for me because it's not fair. Yeah. And that's all we're doing. We're again, we're not saying that this is a bad movie because, like, I mean, technically speaking, it is a huge marvel. It's just that for whatever reason, this just did not work for us. And but I think in the argument of everything, everywhere there is a giant group of people that don't like that movie. That's true. Yeah. But it does seem like we are on an island with this Mad Max Fury Road business. I don't know if I've ever met someone else who, like, just doesn't like Fury Road like we do. And I'm like, I'm jealous. I just don't like it. It's. It's to the point where you and I have been out publicly and with people and Mad Max Fury Road comes up and they are just gushing over it and you and I just bite our tongues. Yeah. Okay. We're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've given each other like, looks and we're like, I just yeah, this will all be over soon. Just let it ride. Be cool. Just be cool. You know what? But not being sarcastic, this is my choice to win best picture this year. I'm dead serious. dude, I think it would have been okay. I think it would have been amazing if they did this. I think. Okay, to back up a little bit. If I did take best Director away from Inarritu in 2014 for Birdman, I still got to have him winning one. So I do want him to win director here as he went on to do. But if he won in 2014 and then they gave the 2015 best director to George Miller, I would have been thrilled for that because I like Oscar history, I like that stuff I would have loved. That's the movie that won the most awards. Fury Road won six, The Revenant won three, Spotlight won two. So that's it. Spotlight just won picture and screenplay. So I put right here that even though this movie isn't for me, I still would have loved out of all of these movies. I would have loved the most if Fury Road won, Everyone else liked it. I can acknowledge that, and I could acknowledge how it just would have been like such a great, crazy thing for the Academy. Spotlight was one where I'm like spotlights, a very well-intentioned movie. It's about a very difficult subject, but it's that movie's not for me. I don't. It's just not I don't think there's anything I don't know. I was really surprised when it when it won and when it seemed like it was going that way. And then there really wasn't much competition because they weren't going to give The Revenant best picture. I was like, Is it going to be Spotlight and that it was just kind of a shrug. At least Fury Road would have been exciting. The movie is not for me, but it would have been an exciting as all hell win. I think this is a situation where we have reversed roles a bit because I think if you were to look back and look in the lens of time, I think Mad Max is your winner. I think that's the one where you look back and you're like, yeah, I mean, because that's a movie that is adored and still talked about. I actually picked Spotlight for the time period because it was the safe choice to make that it was saying, That's the word to use, that's what it was. Doesn't mean it was bad. It just means it was safe. Yeah, no, I have no problem with Spotlight. I but I think in looking at it like that, that was the movie because the Academy loves when they can touch on a subject. But maybe not necessarily go in on an on it in the way where it might need to be gone in on for the sake of real change. And like having film actually be a medium to invoke real change. Your perspective shifts. I don't necessarily know the spotlight hits that Mark Yeah, yeah, it was the thing and it was safe and I think anything else would have been would have shaken things up a little bit. That's also just the the year that remember when they it's so it's so we'd go watch the supporting actor winner for this year. wait I missed burying the lead this is the first Oscars we watched together. This is the first time we watched the Oscars together in my little apartment. We were editing. We didn't watch this. That's right. There I go. We watch. And we've watched every single Oscars together since, except this one, because although we were, like, virtually watching them together. But yes, the first one we watched and remember when Mark Rylance won supporting Actor because we thought it was going to be Sylvester Stallone for Creed. But the way the person reads it, I don't remember. I think it's might be Patricia Arquette, because she once supporting actress the year before, but it's Mark. And if you look, Mark Ruffalo is nominated. So for like a millisecond, you think it's going to be him and it's not. It was just that's not the main part. The main part was to invite Sylvester Stallone to give it to him. It's like, I love that. I love that Mark Rylance gets up there. 2015. Yeah, Interesting. Interesting year, I should say that, you know, historically things are starting to change within the academy because every acting nominee in 2014 was white. So that prompts the OscarsSoWhite hashtag, which immediately has them change as some change the amount of people that they invite to be a part of the Academy. 2016. We have the eventual winner Moonlight. It's fellow nominees Arrival fences, Hacksaw Ridge. I can't believe that. Excellent Hell or high water hidden figures. La la Land Lion, Manchester by the Sea. If it were only five nominees, I think we would have had. This is tough arrival. Hacksaw Ridge, La la land, Manchester by the sea in moonlight. All right, We have a weird one off. Okay, We usually are. Yeah, I have a rival, La la land. Moonlight Manchester by the sea and fences. No, Mel. Well, you got rid of Mel. No, I. I know. I'm laughing because they. They nominated him for director this year. This is like a while after all the Mel controversy. I just don't understand this academy, so I don't understand when they do this shit. Like, I don't know, whatever. Yeah I think the that place I had, I had hidden figures or fences taking up the fifth spot there. So, yeah I don't know what a rival get in what Hacksaw Ridge. I don't know. But we do agree on La la Land, Moonlight and Manchester by the sea. Now the big question here, this is a tough one. What is our pick to win? Best picture the moonlight win was. I mean, come on. If we take away Envelope gate, if Bonnie and Clyde up there just said moonlight as was intended, that would have been a huge, huge shock. Like it was. It was ruminating. The whole Oscar campaign. The whole Oscar season was La la Land versus moonlight. Even though Damien Chazelle and Barry Jenkins are friends and they're like, Who cares about this stuff? They're like literally saying that at every awards show, like, Hey, man, how's it going? Like, it's all you know, it's all good. Obviously, envelope gate happens. If that hadn't happened, this just would have been a really, truly stunning win where people are like, my God. But yeah, I mean, I think la la land is better movie. I've always said that I would have loved if that won best picture. I think that would have been great. But you're not going to hear any argument from me that Moonlight won Moonlight Winning was a huge advance not only for racial diversity within the Academy and an acceptance of it, but also independent filmmaking. That movie cost $1.5 million. That's crazy. That is crazy that it actually won best picture. But yeah, I you know, la la land for me. I wrote this, you know, this is a this is a crazy one because I think you and I have talked about this enough. I was I liked Moonlight a lot more than than you did. I actually. I picked La la land for. wow. wow. Because, again, I still looking at it at the time thing. And now, now we're closing in on things, too. And like, we're less than ten years removed from. Yes, we're getting closer. So this idea of time separation is getting harder. I would say it's getting harder, and so it's going to become less and less of that. But, you know, I'm looking at it and I'm like, you know, and especially if you're looking at the Oscars, checks all the Oscar boxes for what things that they like. And it is a movie that is still talked about and revered where. But I love that Moonlight won for all the reasons that you just said, because this was a giant shift in the in the direction that we need to be going. And, you know, the Oscars have done this thing where I start to notice, like as we go forward, we're going to see this more and more. It's like these steps forward and then steps back. Yes, steps forward. yes. yes. And it's still happening. And so it's just sort of like, all right, guys, like like you make one really ballsy move and it's like, okay, okay. We, we, we went there, we went there. But, you know, next year, let's, let's hone it back in. Yeah, you get scared and retaliate. And so I think that is an absolute case of what happens in the next year. And that would have would a thing in the next one. But if you were to ask someone who won, I mean envelope Gates fucked it all up because everyone's confused, like if you ask the average person who won between moonlight and La la land, I guarantee you they're going to say la la land. yeah, they absolutely do. yeah. yeah. And it it's just one of those things where it's just it's just kind of a reality. But yeah, I would with La la land. But I'm glad Moonlight is the one that won it. Yeah. And two years in a row. Lt is a is in the title bottle, you know. So how about Spot and Moon? Spot and Moon third is. Wow. What do you think of that, Hoss? You fucking got a hold of that one? This next year is tough. Actually, it is, because. All right, 2017, the Shape of Water wins some movie that got nominated for the most by far. 13. The runner up was eight. Nothing else was really in competition to win. Picture Director. Some of the acting categories were up in the air, but the Shape of Water Dislike won everything its fellow nominees were. Call Me by Your Name Darkest Hour, Dunkirk, which is the one that got eight nominees. Get out Ladybird, Phantom Thread, The Post and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri that were only five nominees. I think we'd have Dunkirk Get out Ladybird the Shape of water in three billboards. I am revising as I'm going here I have Dunkirk. Get out the shape of water. Call me by your name and three billboards. I'm putting in there. Call me by your name and get out. Both got four nominees each and they both went on to win screenplay awards. So that's a perfect switch that that works. That's a good switch because I originally had phantom thread in there, but then I was like, That's me with my heart right there. So I that's not gonna work. And Three Billboards was a giant. that was a huge movie. Yeah, it was a huge movie. I didn't have that in there. So to win, this is tough because I love Guillermo del Toro. To win this is actually very tough. Yeah. I mean, I, I love all of his movies, but I saw I've seen this movie once and I liked it. I liked it. It was an ode to like Douglas Sirk. I liked it. It was weirder than shit. I love what Sally Hawkins did with it. I thought it was so strange. I like This is the movie that's going to win best picture, given all the, you know, relations that go on in it. Wow. This is this is wild. So it's not like it's a safe movie. Like it. There has scenes that go there, but I don't hear anyone talking about this movie, like, at all. I never hear this brought up the movies that people talk about. I would have loved it. Dunkirk won best picture. That would have been great. It was still it was still too early. It was the first time Nolan got nominated for director, but I just don't think it would have happened. The biggest movie from this year is Get Out There. It is the one that is talked about the most. Should that have won best picture, that would have done so much more for the Academy, I think, even than Moonlight did. Like, I think it would have been a huge thing. But, you know, the horror movies don't win best picture often, if at all. So it's I don't really think it had a chance. It won original screenplay. That was a huge deal. It was so cool that that happened. That was like really the crowning achievement of that movie. So it's hard for me to say like what the Academy should have done here for Best Picture because the Shape of water is a decent that like steamrolled everything. But I think I'd probably go with get out. I think that would have had the most cultural significance if they did that. What says you? I agree. I was going to say don't disagree with me because I make great points. No, I mean I mean, I think that. But that is the point. That is the point. So get out. Yeah, you give it to get out. It's weird because I've talked about that. I'm not you know, I appreciate the movie. I respect it. I'm not I don't think it was the best movie made that year. And that's fine. But I do. Yeah it would have been awesome if the Academy did that. All right. So, yeah. So you're saying what should have won? It makes sense. That shape of water won. This was not baffling to anyone. It still makes sense. I'm glad that Guillermo del Toro has a best director Oscar and directed a best picture winner. That's awesome. That it's you're not going to hear any complaints from me, but because no one talks about this anymore. Yeah, people still talk about Dunkirk. People still talk about get out. People still talk about Ladybird. A lot of that. People still talk about Phantom Thread a lot, but I don't even think would have been nominated. But no people to actually talk about the Oscars while the campaigning is going on and after they take place awards something like get out and then a lot of people are going to be talking about them. No one was talking about how cool it was that the shape of water won best picture. That's all I agree. I'm I'm agreeing. I'm agreeing. I can't I can't keep agreeing more. Let's put stuff in 2018 stuff because we're talking about this is we're talking about, you know, one step and three steps forward with moonlight and then we get six steps back with the eventual eventual winner. Green Book. Okay, fellow nominees, Black Panther, Black Klansman, Bohemian Rhapsody, the favorite, Roma, A star is born and vice. I think our five nominees would have been Bohemian Rhapsody, Green Book, The Favorite Roma and a Star is Born. And I don't know those. I don't know. It's tough. It's tough. I don't know. I don't know this one. This one's tough. Vice, for instance, got more nominees in green, got more nominations and Green book. I'm going crazy on this one. I don't want to hear it. I Got a star is born, Black Panther, Bohemian Rhapsody, the favorite in Roma. I like it. I like it much better. So, yeah, you just took out Green Book for Panther. I love this because Green Book is the probable winner. So for you, it's like, no, wouldn't be nominated. It would have to be huge thing. It was a huge thing that it yeah, you know that is one where I do think the up to ten nominations helped that get in. But maybe you're right Maybe it just would have been time to nominate the superhero movie and they just would have done it. You may be on to something. That Green Book wouldn't have even been nominated here. I might be able to get on board with that. I don't. This was one that took on kind of a life after the nominations happen after the nominations have and people are like, well, are we going to play it safe and go with Green Book? And that is what happened and that's what happened. I mean, I just remember the the cultural just complete love for Black Panther. Yep. And for like the black community, like it it was it was an important movie and more so than just being the comic book movie, but also kind of serving that field, too, because we're this is 2018, we are in the throes of like Marvel superhero movies being the biggest movies of the year all the time. I think it's about time that that like there was some representation for that, even though those movies aren't necessarily for me. I mean, what are we going to do? Can we can you really ignore it anymore? And then on top of that, you've got the cultural significance. So I think Black Panther's got to be in there. And as a matter of fact, it's my winner. wow. Wow. Big pivot. I think this is a hard one to come up with a winner for. So because, yes, I'm not sure Black Panther would even get in there. I actually had winning this. Hear me out. Here's my here's my theory, my take. For the first time in Oscar history, I could have seen Roma winning here. And that would have been, yes, the first time a foreign language film won, which in real life was done the next year. But if they did that with Roma because Cuaron won director and so they did it then, then maybe they get that out of their system so that the best picture next year goes a different way. That's in my perfect world. And Roma, that was not even in my top ten of that year. So this is not one where I'm like Roma's a masterpiece. It should have won. That's just one word. yes, It would have been a smart move for the Academy. yeah. I mean, again, like, I'm not a fan of the superhero genre, so. Black Right. This certainly wouldn't my pick. But Roma was my if I, if I'm not going in the direction that I'm going with with Black Panther and just like going all in on that, then Roma would be my second one. Looking at the list of the movies here that that the Oscars actually would have gone with for these reasons. Yeah. What do you think? What do you think about that? Well, in reality, the most awarded film of that evening with four Oscar wins was none other than Bohemian Rhapsody, a, you know, best editing winner. my God, The sound Better Christ 2019. Tough year ish, Bittersweet year Parasite Wins First Foreign language film to ever win Best Picture. It's fellow nominees Ford V Ferrari, the Irishman. Jojo Rabbit. Joker, Little Women Marriage Story 1917. Once upon a time in Hollywood, it was five nominees and I think it'd be the Irishman. Joker 1917 Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and Parasite. And what I want to say about that is I'm not head over heels in love with all of those movies, but I actually like all of those movies. And that's probably the first time today where all the probably best picture nominees, I'm like, I get on board with those and that just shows you what good of a year it was. What a good year 2018 was. absolutely. We have one difference in there. okay, let's do it. And I and I don't it'll be interesting one to debate which one should have been because I think I know where you're going because one was had way more nominations Parasite The Irishman, 1917 Once upon a time in Hollywood and I had Ford versus Ferrari in there I thought you would exclude Joker. Joker was that was the thing that got the most nominations in real life. Got to Love is the most nominations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was a I remember even I was surprised by that. So I do think for nomination I think it's in I think I think you're right so I think I got to take out Ford versus Ferrari and get the Joker in there but crazy but and honestly this way the race looks so much cleaner when it's just five nominees just looks better when you have these, like, outliers out there or people like head scratching, like, I got nominated, not going to name names, but yeah, Parasite. We're back to our Birdman thing where a movie wins. Picture director screenplay and I'm like, All right, does it need all three of those? In addition, Parasite also won international feature film. I just don't need it to win all four of those, especially when it was up against Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for three of those. So if they want to give Bong Joon Ho director, I'm okay with that. But I want once upon a time in Hollywood to win picture. Let's talk about a love letter to that city and what he did with the end and how he turned it into a fantasy. As opposed to a nightmare. Yeah I just I really, really wish that would have won. And I do think it kind of broke him a little bit. I think that night broke him that he didn't win anything that I mean, it walked away with. You know, he's got production design supporting actor That's great. But the fact that he didn't get screenplay or director, I think I do. I think it kind of crushed him a little bit. I've heard him talk about it in the subtext. What he's saying is that he really did not have a good time at all on that campaign tour because Parasite was just cleaning house with everything. Yep, I'm the same way. Yeah. Exact same way. I agree. You might say, God damn right, let's next year. God, we have a hell of a time. Jesus. Well, the world changes. Everything goes to shit. Who And the Oscars. And I'll tell you, this is. This is tough. This is like, even if it were only five nominees, this reads like a fucking joke. Like, dude, these next few years are like, the shift is just the next three years are 20, 20, 20, 21 and 2022. The only Oscars that we've covered since we've had this podcast and things have finally changed with 2023, thank God. But yeah, this is going to be this is a tough time. All right. This is a tough time. Yeah. Get into a man. Get into it. The winner is Nomadland. The nominees were the father, Judas and the black Messiah. Mank Minari promising young woman sound of metal and the trial of the Chicago. Very few of these movies are still talked about to this day. If it were only five nominees, I guess I would have gone with the father. Mank Minari, a Nomadland and the trial of the Chicago seven. But it's a little tough to pick those. What'd you have? four. You know, I have to. shit. Duty. Ah, fuck. What? What do I think? That they would have gone with just a nominee? Yeah, I think they would have ended it. Yeah. All right. I have to take out my favorite movie that of that year and replace it with another one. All right, I'm going to go with Judas in the black Messiah. Okay. Mank Minari trial of the Chicago seven and Nomadland as what I think the nominees. Yeah. So we just switch? Yeah, we just switched Father in Minari. so you took out Sound of Metal? I took that sound, yeah. And that, that, that that's, that's. that's the one that was my favorite. But I replace that with Minari because I think, I think that's how that would have went. Minari was a thing and she won. Supporting actress. Yes. And it's like no one no one talks about that movie. No. You know, whatever. This is a tough it's a tough year for me. It's always. So it's going to be a tough year. Give it to me. I would love to. They gave best picture, Mank. That was very that's what I picked. That's what I picked. I mean, looking at what you got here, it was, well, well-done. It's safe. It's it's, you know. But I see why. I mean, I just I'm just not the biggest fan of it, but I see why Nomadland won. It was like the great equalizer. Like, we're all we're all alone in this together. Like, I don't know, the cultural. There's no, you know, we're all stuck inside. And it's a movie about a woman like I get it. I get why it happened culturally, but yeah, I get it. Yeah, I just yeah, I we understood what was happening when it was happening. I, I don't, I've seen nomadland once. I've never had a conversation with anyone about that movie other than you. Like, what do you think of it? My dad, you know, What did you think of it? That was it. Like after that? I don't. I don't know. It. Whatever, though. Whatever it one. It's the thing, Mank. I just think that would have been fun. This, this came down to on the night it was nomadland versus the trial of the Chicago seven, and nobody talks about that movie anymore. So yeah, that was what a weird year. God, I would have taken that movie over over Nomadland Same same personal level, same as the this is the second time I've done this because Argo was the first, though you kind of convince me with Green Book. But in 2021, the eventual winner was Coda and am certain that movie would have not been nominated for best picture. I am certain if it was only five nominees, it wouldn't have been it would not have been nominated. And I know that because no one was talking about it. And then after that thing got nominated, it was just this quiet little thing that like brewed up and then it ended up winning. Its fellow nominees were Belfast Don't Look up drive my car Dune King Richard Licorice Pizza Nightmare Alley The Power of the Dog and West Side Story There was only five nominees. Belfast Drive my car That's the Asterix Drive my car Dune Power the Dog and West Side Story Dune power of the dog and West Side Story are in. But what you have I the exact same. Exact same. wow. Okay. Yeah. Drive My car was really like that The thing that became a movie of the year and he got the director nomination and it's actually really good movie and yeah this director's branch is there's only 500 people in the directors branch. Maybe I should have mentioned this earlier and directors nominate directors to be nominated. So this is why, like Greta Gerwig doesn't get nominated, but two foreign directors do like Jonathan Glazer and because it's 500 directors and it's a very, very culturally diverse group of people from all different countries, it's not 500 Americans. So yeah, that's why think driving my car could have also been elevated to the best picture category. Yeah, I mean, this is a crazy year because without Coda, it's like what wins even without Coda, you know, 2021 is a really good it's such a good Oscar season to like watch historically, because we all know what happened that night and we all know how one of the biggest movie stars the world completely torpedoed his career because of a joke and then a slap that that happened live in front of all of us. But I'm not trying to put too fine a point on this, and I've talked about this a lot. Jane Campion completely ruined that film's Oscar chances leading up to it because she did a little bit of what Robert Downey Jr. I think he's backing away from it now, but a little bit of what he was doing. And she was accepting awards being like, It's about goddamn time. I deserve this. My film deserves this. What's going on? That's the subtext of it. Until she gets on stage at the Critics Choice Award and and just has truly one of the most disastrous speeches I've ever seen in which she is wild. I've never seen really anything like it in which you just like shits on the other nominees who are right there. The cameras cutting to people, and they're like, What's going on? You can hear one person laughing really loudly and that's clearly like a person, probably her publicists like at her table. And with that she went on to win best director. They still gave her that in real life, but I think that movie was primed to win a lot more. And people were like, You know what? Screw this, we'll give you your Oscar. That's fine, but we're done with this stuff. So you can't go out there being like I. It's about time. I deserve all this. You can't. You can't be doing that stuff. You got to have a little humility. So I don't think power the dog with one picture. That was a long explanation. And I think what should have I mean, I would love if they gave it to Dune. Dune ended up winning the most of the night. That dune, that's what I had. That's the one man I'm telling you, like like the like we're in that era now where, like, are the movies like, if you're talking about movie theater viewership. Yeah, I think this is just the direction where movies are going. And I think whether we like it or not, we have to start leaning into this. And again, it's sort of the exact same thing because you bring it back to Lord of the Rings back in 2003. That was one step in that direction. Same thing with Moonlight. That's one step in that direction. I think it's just time that we have to lean into all of this, lean into the movies that are what people want to see and what are actually making waves in cultural significance. And so I think, I think Dune is your absolute should have won because it it was a really well-done movie and it was something that everyone went to go see. Everyone about. And no one argues with it. Right. And also just painting, painting some historical Oscar context. How many people in that year when the nominations were announced, how many people had ever heard of Ruth Gay? Yamaguchi Not many, but a lot of people have heard oddly. Denis Villeneuve. Denis Villeneuve was not nominated for best Director. This stuff happens. I thought it was crazy that he didn't get in there for best director. But this happens, so don't try to discredit Gerwig thing is like some big huge shocker. This shit happens every year in one fashion, another every year. But we agree. We agree it should have been dune. Damn right. I mean dune. I said that lead on on Michael. Yeah. Up to that. Yeah. I was like they should give it to Dune. They should do that. Who talks about Coda? Who fuck talks about Coda. No one talks. Okay. That movie that was like that where I'm saying of the movies that were listed that actually got nominated. All right. No one talks about Belfast. Fine. Drive my car. Doom King Richard, guess pizza people talk about it. Nightmare Alley People talk about it. Powered dog, I guess. West Side Story, I guess it talks about, you know, whatever. Good. No one's ever going to talk about the movie. I can't with that movie. I just can't. It just it really, really, really gets me. And I don't think it's a bad movie. No, that's the one more so than argue that I truly do not believe what have been nominated. And that is the one where I'm like, It's crazy. Crazy. Wow. I mean, Argo is like how Green Book is like home. But I still get it. I Dakota thing never understood it never just. all right, here we go. You're here. I actually I think this is I like this year though. I think I think this year is a good batch. Yeah. No shit. No, I mean the one coming. Yes. No, I fucking hated last year. I know you did, but there's some. There's. There is some. There's some crazy stuff in here that's fun to kind of get into. I actively dislike most of these movies, but here, let's get into it. Okay. I was being nice. I know. All right. 2022, the eventual winner. Everything everywhere, all at once. Fellow nominees. This is the long title movie year. All quiet on the Western Front, Avatar, The Way Water. The Banshees of Venice, Sharon Elvis disablement Tor Top Gun Maverick Triangle of Sadness Women Talking. I really, really love one of those movies. That's it. Yeah, I like another one. I respect the spectacle of two more. That's it. Well, okay, let me do my five nominees, and you tell me which ones you like. Well, I think probably should have been nominated. All quiet Banshees, Elvis, everything, everywhere. And the fable meant and that, to me, is a very boring group of nominees. All right. I went in a very different direction. I think you'll like me. Okay, Give it to me. I probably will. You better be able to sell them. I do. I got alcohol. sorry. It's. Yeah, I meant women are talking my. yes, I'm sorry. Mark. Mr. Robert. Jesus Christ. How hard is it to read a teleprompter? Read two words, women talking. That's it. And that and that extra word really changes everything. Anyway. Okay, Your five nominees very different. Let's go. All quiet on the Western Front, Top Gun, two, Maverick, everything everywhere. All at once. Avatar two and Tara. Wow. Very different. I could hear you on Star and even Maverick. Avatar Me really felt like an up to ten nominee. That and even Maverick kind of felt like, hey, we're getting in the big ones because no one's going to watch our show if we don't nominate. I don't think they have a chance to win necessarily. But hey, that's fair. Whatever. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because this is last year. We are now. We are not in the time section anymore. We can't correct. What I like about my list of nominees is that I think this is like you're talking about how I feel about Dune being sort of one. You've got the two movies that everyone went and saw. You have Top Gun at Avatar two and everything everywhere, all at once, because all everyone went and saw that movie. And then you get the crazy ass like really intense foreign film all quiet on the Western front. That was probably the most well-done movie of the whole entire year. Yeah, I like that movie. And then you just throw in that one indie that's just crazy weird, but entire like, you could I could. I would have put Triangle of Sadness in there if it wasn't for all quiet, But, like, I don't know, I geek out and Tariq is like, that would have been like that one outlier. That would have been, yeah, I certainly wouldn't have one. But you have that, and that's a cool batch of movies. It's a cool, eclectic batch. It is. It's way cooler. Way cooler than I don't have any outliers. Mine is very boring. Mine is actually the movies that got nominated for the most Oscars, the five movies. And that's it is boring. Like I would love to. I would love the thrown triangle of sadness, you know, the foreign thing. I mean, he's a foreign director. It's not a foreign film necessarily, but for what I had here, this is this is what's crazy for what should have won, because I have all quiet, all of my nominees, all quiet, banshees, Elvis, everything, everywhere. And the fable ends. This is exactly like 2011. I wouldn't have picked the artist win. I would not have picked everything everywhere to win. But when I break it down like that, it makes sense that it won. Yeah, They weren't going to give it to banshees. Banshees didn't win Oscars. Like they're not going to give it to Elvis. Thank God. Everything everywhere it was It's night and I get why it won. And I always say, even though that movie is not for me and it's never going to be, that is a supremely fucking weird movie. So yeah, cool. Go for get the best picture. I'm here for it. Moonlight is not my favorite movie of 2016, but because it's so small and it was legitimately made independently good, go for it. Fury Road Not my favorite movie of 2015. I would have loved that one. So why? While I did not agree with most of the winners last year, it's like, I don't know. Historically for the Oscars, I did think it was a good thing. It was better than them going like, Let's give it to the biopic, let's give it to Elvis, let's give it to the touching family drama, Drama. The fable meant a movie that I really didn't think worked. I didn't like that movie. So, yeah, I mean, I get it. I get it. Whatever. What would you want to win that year, Nick Well, I mean, I picked everything every year all at once for that reason. I know for these reasons. But yes, I agree. I think I think it is this step in that direction of like, all right, what's it? I think it's a step in the right direction. Where is Coda like in the year before? Because you could say that same thing. Good for a movie like Coda, like this, like indie movie to come out. No, And I like that one because of that reason. It's just everything everywhere, all at once makes sense. And exactly what we're talking about. Coda doesn't really make sense in the what we're talking about. No, because while Coda was like had independent sensibilities, it was purchased at Sundance by Apple. And then you have the Apple juggernaut just throwing everything behind it. Clearly after nominations going, let's throw legitimately hundreds of millions of dollars, get this best picture win at work. Yeah, and that's where game is played. So. Okay. Yeah, I hope that's all corrected. Not all corrected. I just hope, you know, give me one this year. I've never had one or I very rarely. Give me one. Just give me one. A one for me. We do not have a winner. We do not have a winner yet. But our nominees for 2023 are American fiction. Anatomy of a Fall Barbie The Holdovers. Killers of the Flower Moon. Maestro Oppenheimer. Past Lives Poor Things. The Zone of Interest. That is All told compared to all the other lists I've said today, that's one of the favorite batch of nominees I've read so far today. It's actually a strong group of movies. I like a lot of these movies. If it were only five, I think we're looking at Anatomy of a Fall Barbie, Killers of the Flower Moon, Oppenheimer. Poor things. So what I got here is I got Oppenheimer Poor things. Barbie Killers of the Flower Moon. I just because this seems to me more like what the Academy would put in there, I put the holdovers in place of anatomy. Fall. Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah. Anatomy of it seems like. No, I like doing it. Like, I think that should be in there. Yeah. Yeah, I got you. I get it. But what would. Yeah, Yeah. Killers of the Flower Moon has ten nominations. Will it win any I It's starting to look like I don't know it feels like even since nomination time people when I was talking about like should Lily Gladstone be supporting. I was just like spitballing I hadn't heard anyone talk about that. Everyone's talking about that a of people think she should be in supporting that does not bode well for her chances. So we're we're going to see. I mean, I just didn't think we'd be talking that Emma Stone might win her second best actress Oscar in not that many years. And I'm just totally here for it. So she's got that movie. She's standing in poor things. I'm just going to say it. I have never been more confident going into an Oscar season as to what I am certain is going to win then. really? Here's why I'm calling it Who's best Actor? Who's winning best actor, Mr. Certainty? Who are the nominees? You know, the it doesn't matter who the nominees are, it's come down. It comes down to two people. yeah. No, that that one's that one's really scary. I don't know about that one. I don't know about that. That's Murphy or Giamatti. All right. Yes. You know, that's that's that's very scary. So. Okay, so Emma Stone is all right. Who's winning? And I see some of these are easy. Well, we have this, we have this. We have a whole episode. We do a number. We know we do. You know you know what that episode is? No, it's not the coveted one The coveted one is our recap episode. We do. We have our our breakdown. All right, fine. I'll save it. I'll save it. You're right. We've been here long. Save it. Kept people. I mean, I leave with the confidence. What's going to win in 2023? What should win? Best picture. Daddy, Daddy. Oppenheimer. Fuck it. Right. Should and will let it happen. Nolan Oppenheimer. I feel I feel good right now. Everything feels good. I feel good. Everyone's playing the game well, I feel good. I feel good. That was fun. We're going to move on to what you watching, but any final thoughts? It's a good idea on your part. The one thing that we didn't do is we didn't go down the list of all of these movies and actually just pick our personal favorites. Would that be fun to do or that just be too much? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, if. Okay, yeah. Let's start 20. If we would have picked the winners just with our hearts. Just with our hearts. Just with us. All right, cool. Yes. And I'm not. Yeah, like Time has something to do with this. I'm this. I am going to say, though, this is not going to be based on what my favorite movie of the year is. It's cool if you do that. I do hold some Oscar lore into it, so I still like to put Oscar history. But yeah, let's do it. No, no, no. Yeah, You just had to pick of the nominees. Yes, Yes. Of the nominees. Right. But like, for 2009, I like Inglourious Basterds more, but I still would have picked The Hurt Locker win picture because I think it was good that that won. That's all I'm saying. So that's my choice. Yeah. Yeah. I and I'm agreeing. And Hurt Locker 2010 The Social Network. Social Network. Yeah. Even though Inception is one of my all time favorite. yeah. yes. Okay. So you would go with Social Network? Yes. Yeah. We're talking about. You're separating. I'm picking it, but it would be my favorite 2011 Tree of Life. Tree of Life. Yes. Even though midnight in Paris would probably be my favorite. My personal favorite. You can do it. You can say whatever you want. All right. Phuket, midnight in Paris. Let's go. 2012, Zero Dark 30, zero Dark 30. Wow. We're very, very in step here. This is tough. 2013. Favorite film of that of the nominees is The Wolf of Wall Street. But I liked it, 12 Years a Slave one. So I'll go with that. I like Nebraska, really love that fucking movie. If we're just going with our favorite of the Rascals, this is dealer's choice. You could pick anything you want. 2014 provided. Perfect. Well, if I. If I'm not allowed to literally change any other nominee than I'd want or any other winner, then I would want Boyhood to win this. But if Richard Linklater could have one director, I'm fine with Birdman winning, but if all the winners, all the other winners have to stay the same, then I guess I'm picking Boyhood to win because I wanted it to win a major Oscar. Other than supporting actress. Yes, I completely agree. All right. That's that's that. That's that one's going 2015. I think this is a no brainer. No, for me, it's The Revenant. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. The review. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I thought you were going to say Double down on Fury Road. No, can't. 16 is too sweet. 16 is la la land to me. It's my God, this is such a hard one because it's it's a hard is this has a a a verified nick though. So what are you watching Note Perfect award right here. We all know which one it is. It's hell or high water. But then it's also got Manchester by the Sea, which is the funniest movie ever made. Yeah, it's my comfort movie. what am I do? All right, all right. My favorite. My favorite. It's Manchester by the Sea. Go for it. Yes, Yes. Okay. Real quick, people. You know, I invoke it happen, right? Have I explain this? You know what happened to one dude who was responsible for handing them the correct envelope was taking a selfie with Emma Stone while she was like backstage, Not like a purposeful selfie. He's like, way in the foreground and she's way in the background and he messed up and accidentally pass off a duplicate best actress envelope If they would have accidentally passed off a duplicate best actor envelope, then they would have read the winner as Manchester by the Sea and with the with the Jimmy Kimmel Matt Damon stuff because you know Matt Damon like produced Manchester by the Sea but they're like fake funny beast that would they would have everyone thought that was staged everyone would have thought that was staged. Can you imagine if they were like Manchester by the Sea wins? It's like fucking funny. Okay. Is Manchester for you? La la Land for me in 2017, my beloved of the actual nominees, my beloved phantom thread. God, I would have loved to won best picture. Yeah, same here. Same. Really? Wow. Yeah. yeah. Love it. Yeah, yeah. 100%. 2018 stars born. Bring it on. A thousand. Absolutely Stars Early 2019. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Second best movie of All time Baby Got a Damn Right 2020 Mank Sound of Metal. Yeah, that's fair. That's where I get it. Yeah. 2021 The most offensive movie ever made. Liquors Pizza? Yes. Licorice pizza. 100%. Yes, I can love that movie. Ready for rewatch 2022. I want to say Triangle of Sadness because that's my favorite of the nominees. I don't think that I'd had a chance at winning, so I don't really know what to go with here. I guess that that would have been in my position. Yeah, that's that's like realistic. I do. I love that movie or taller I would have low it's not about what is your okay triangle of sadness then I love that movie you do I bought the criterion and there's no special features on it, but it looks so good. my God, it looks great. And then I'm going with everything ever. Everything, everywhere. All at once, with a very, very close top Gun maverick. Because that movie is just like an awesome 2023 meets Oppenheimer all the way. Oppenheimer. All right, That was fun. Good idea. Good idea. Let's move on to WCW. I'm doing my thing where I'm going to list more than one movie today. I'm going to give people some multiple recs. Stop scoff. These are good recs. I bet there. Would you like to go first? Sure, I'll go first. So we get to recommend the errors store again. What you did for the second time. You did that twice? Yes, I know. And it's worth it. It's worth it. All right. You can't do that again. But you can do anything you like. I'm going with a I'm just going with a movie that piggybacks off of our last conversation of our top ten of 2023. Okay. And it's a movie that I've just seen in theaters that I really recommend, and that is Godzilla minus one. But yes, I guess technically it would be Godzilla. Minus color is what they're calling it. Godzilla. Minus one. Minus color. Yeah. The black and white version, which at least around here came and went. They gave it to us for a whopping seven days. Thank you. Washington, D.C. metropolitan area. I barely got. I saw it the last Showtime on Thursday. I was like, I got I got to go to see this. I liked it. I just I liked it so much better in black and white. I thought it was awesome. I it made my top ten. So I really liked the before. But his eyes, Godzilla's eyes popped so much better in black and white. They were fucking. that's fine. But yeah, yeah, because I notice that. Well, yeah, because, like, I didn't see it in color, so I'm only going in in the black and white, so. But I notice the eyes and I go, my God, Like that. There are some truly, truly, like, breathtaking and terrifying images of just like, if you just, like, took a snapshot of, like the screenshot of some of those it's it definitely is effective. I liked it a lot. Didn't make my top ten. If I had to revise I would still keep mine is the way that it is, but I really, really liked it and I highly recommend it if it's still in theaters. Yeah, seriously. I mean, it's nominated for best visual effects. It has good chance at winning in people. This movie cost $15 million. That's it. Like that's not a lot of money. The Killer by David Fincher. The reported budget is 175 million. It's Netflix giving it to these fucking massive checks to go make these movies for no like ask no attention, no nothing. Like, all I'm saying is $15 million is not a lot of money, period, let alone period. The fact that the visuals like it looks and the visual effects look better in black and white, it was more forgiving of them. It just it looked great. that's awesome. I'm so glad you like it. Yeah, I am. I'm going to go through a few today. Some have been mentioned, but I these are wildly different genres. These are all things I have been watching. But this is what we're doing in 2024. I'm my recommendation. It's It's a literal piggyback off yours. It is also a bit of an amendment to my top ten. Although you didn't amend your top ten. If I did do it, I would definitely bump the zone of interest higher than number ten. I saw the movie again. I'm in the middle of reading the book. I'm fairly certain the only thing the film has in common with the book is title. It is nothing like the movie at all. That's fine. wow. Yeah, it's it's it's completely different. What Glazer has done is stripped it down and made an art installation out of the book, but I just misjudge it. The first time I saw it, I did the classic thing that we talk about not doing all the time, which is went in with an idea of what it was. I was completely and utterly baffled by the direction he went in. But then that staying power and it never leaving my head. And then seeing it a second time. And I was clearly in there with people who had not seen it. I'm just telling you like this is not a spoiler. But what he does in the last 5 minutes is like you are you have to process it in real time. And this movie's PG 13. I'm not talking about violent shit. I'm not talking about shocking violence. That's not what I'm about. You have to process it. And then you hear different pockets of the theater going, my God, is it? And then you're like, Can you do this in a movie? Like, Is it? Fascinating. Fascinating. I saw it. I have to see it. I had to. I saw it. It alamo's a weird thing where I was a half hour early and they open their theaters a half hour before they spent 30 minutes showing Jonathan Glazer music videos. It was awesome. It was so cool. I was like, my God, these are the videos he's done. I love that. So I'm really like putting my weight behind that. I think it's going to win international feature film. All of the performances vibrate on the same wavelength of ambient malevolence. damn, I wish that was my sentence, but it's not the filename. Adam Naiman, who writes for The Ringer and other publications. He's he's a Toronto based critic. I hear him on a few podcasts. Here's a way with words that are astounding. That was beautiful. And he's mean. He's not a nice critic. He's He's he calls himself mean and he's not forgiving. So if he puts his way behind something, you're like, His article on this opened up the movie for me. Don't read the article. You haven't seen the movie yet. But, you know, it's an intense subject and there are some things going on right now. So like a lot of people are watching Glazer's movies, Criterion Put Up, Sexy Beast, and Birth. Birth is a pretty hard movie to find. I had to rent it on YouTube two weeks ago. And then, of course, Criterion just put it up. Thank you. I Always love when that happens. Way better movie than I remembered. Very good. Disturbing movie. Have you seen that one? Nicole Kidman. I never seen that. Wow, dude, fucking Lauren Bacall shows up she kills it. Arliss Howard, Our guy from the killer. Lauren Bacall is great. And Danny Houston, two great film. It's very, very bizarre. So I just wanted to mention, I also, you know, I'm taking it down a little bit. After Zone of Interest, I rewatched Alan Rene's Night and Fog, which is a Holocaust documentary from 1956. It's 30 minutes long. I've seen it three times in my life. It's very easy to find. It's on Criterion, HBO, it's images, and you will never forget watching that movie. But because the zone of interest shows you nothing because it's PG 13, I yeah, I just needed that perspective and I was like, Fuck This is why I've only seen this three times in my life. But, you know, Francois Truffaut called it his favorite movie, some of the most important movie ever made Night Fog. So go check that out. It's, you know. It's images of what went on there. And that was the first time people were seeing it. And you're he's crosscutting it with present day which is to say 1956 Auschwitz the site of it where it's gorgeous blue skies and bright green grass and it's just gorgeous And then boom, he cuts in to a picture of what was there ten years ago, 13 years ago. And that sounds it's tough. It's tough. Wildly. It sounds tough, but it also kind of it's it's nice. I'm I'm getting goosebumps thinking about. Yeah, just like that. That whole juxtaposition of this this life that we have. You will see things in that documentary that you you just can't believe beings were capable of that. What did they, you know. Yeah, but there's a scene in the zone of interest when someone is fertilizing a garden and I go, Wow, that looks like ashes. Like this doesn't make any sense. And there are explaining anything in zone of interest. And I put on night and fog and I was reminded that that's what they did with the bones. They ground them up and try to turn them into fertilizer. Didn't work as fertilizer. But yeah, it's you know, we brought the podcast down a little bit, but it's necessary viewing. It's tough. It's tough. Necessary. All right. Let's try to try to bring it up with a fucking double murder. Yeah. I watch some of the best live action short nominees. The after is on Netflix. It's stars. David, I Yellow. Sorry if I'm pronouncing that wrong. It's good. It's short. It does not fuck around. It goes. I thought it might be veering a little too much towards sentiment, but I was here for it. Night of Fortune is a short on YouTube. It's also nominated and it's about two guys kind of meeting each other in a morgue and coming to coming to an understanding and helping each other out. I like those both better than the wonderful story of Henry Sugar, directed by Wes Anderson, which is on Netflix. I imagine that will win, but I don't know. I get it. I get it. Who knows if they're all if they're all being on Netflix. I think they kind of have a chance. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that was Anderson Anderson's the biggest name and I fear to do that, which is fine. The Great Santini. I never seen The Great Santini. It is never available on streaming. It popped up on Tube. We just talked about it because our beloved Michael O'Keefe, who stars as Barry in Michael Clayton, he got nominated big at The Great Santini. It's about Robert Duvall is this military captain who's like retired and he's this huge kind of alpha male blowhard. And Michael plays his son and they have this kind of iconic scene where they play a game of, you know, backyard basketball, just a pickup game in the backyard over the garage type deal. And it gets really, really intense. But it was great to see, you know, snooty Barry as this young kid playing basketball is fun. So that's on to be it's never available anywhere. A lot of people think it's Duvall's best role, so check that out if you want. shit. We got a nuclear war double feature. Yeah. Threads. I've always wanted to see Threads. Threads is this notorious movie that so many people talk about from 1984, directed by Mick Jackson. This thing hits harder than most studio movies and it is a fucking made for TV movie. Very. Come and see vibes if you've seen Come and See which was made the year later. You know, the movie's about if American Russia got into a nuclear war and the effect that has on just this one working class city in England. It's like terrifying. It's fantastic. Mick Jackson, what a career. Listen to this shit. He makes threads, then he makes L.A. Story. The Bodyguard Clean slate with Dana Carvey. my gosh. Volcano. Tommy Lee Jones. Tuesdays. Morrie Temple Grandin. That's crazy. That's the most eclectic body of work of whatever year. But I like those movies. Yeah, like those followed with panic in Year Zero, the Ray Milland directed film. He also stars in it. I love Ray Milland. He gives an Oscar winning performance in Billy Wilder's The Lost Weekend from 1945 Panic in Years Zero was one of the five movies he directed did not have a lot of money, but it's basically this family going on. You know, they live in L.A. and they pack up the trailer. There's going to go for like a weekend vacation in the woods and kind of, you know, away from L.A. And on their way, L.A. gets nuked, like over and over. So what do you do? Do you do you realize that almost every single thing that you've been listing has somewhat to do with, basically like death, like, well, well, not just death, but death in like a genocide. Yes, like a mass Because even Oppenheimer is all about like this mass, you know, like you're laying out a pattern. All right, In a pattern, I'm telling people what I watch. This is all related zone. Eventually, living right of interest leads me to night and fog. Zone of interest also leads me to birth the best live action movies. Great Santini isn't about genocide, might be about emotional genocide threads. Great film, Great film. Check it out. Panic in Year Zero actually gets dark. It kind of goes there. I found that on Criterion, you can find it on YouTube. Threads is on Criterion. It's on to be my last one. No one's going to expect me to talk about this. Right before we recorded, I put on a notorious movie called Perfect Blue, well Made in 1997. I've been recommended this a lot. It's only 80 minutes long. It's available a lot of places. Found it on Amazon Prime. Really glad I watched it. It there's so much Michael Haneke stuff in here his like prevalence of surveillance in his movies huge influence on Darren Aronofsky the scene of Jennifer Connelly screaming in the bathtub that's directly taken from perfect blue. There's a lot of Black Swan in here too. There is a ton of Vox Lux, the Natalie Portman movie. So the movie's about like a star, a pop star trying to become an actress. And they keep doing this really, really cool thing, not unlike King of Comedy, where you will be watching a scene of her and it's a really scene, and then it'll cut out to like a director's monitor and you're like, I was just watching a scene of her as an actress. I didn't I didn't realize that. And they keep doing that to where you don't know if you're watching clips from stuff she's in or like the actual movie. Really cool. I'm glad I watch. It's been recommended to me over and over. Anime is not my thing and I'm like, You know what? That you're you're not distracted. Just like it's 80 minutes. Put the phone away. Let's do it. And I'm glad I did it. There's a I have to I, I have to ask my mom, but she actually had an anime movie to recommend to you. Well see I was because I know your mom likes anime. Wonder if it's this because, you know my friend Mark on Letterbox. Mark's been a friend of mine for ages via my blog. His recommendations. He actually he's the one who recommended come and see to me way back when he he recommends like really good deep cuts. He's one of my deep cut heads. And he said on Letterbox he was commenting on something. He's like, I know I've recommended this to you over over the years, but just, you know, if you can give it a shot. So, yeah, please ask your mom if this is the one. I will ask her when we're done when we're done all texter And yeah because she, she she like specifically was like Alex needs to see these two I there were two in particular but Perfect blue was not one of them. I would remember the title okay. Yeah. Do you have fun today? This is fun. Was it This is this is really of of the movies I just mentioned. Other than Zone of interest, which one would you want to watch the most? Honestly, probably night and fog that can be like only like Yeah I mean it's yeah it sounds like it'd be tough but it sounds like that necessary viewing thing. And I can and I can but, but how and like real that is is is that sounds like something that should be seen. Yeah. You'll think about it. You'll be thinking about it. So yeah this is a lot of fun. Would love to hear other people you know mixing up the Oscars, having fun with them. We're going have fun with the Oscars. Coming up, two more Oscar themed episodes are narratives, which will be in a few weeks. And then the coveted now, here we go, Greatly desired post-show wrap up. No. All right. That was fun. A great idea on your part. This was a Nick Del sole original podcast idea. Really appreciate it. Let us know what you think. We're everywhere at W aiw underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie at Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas dose dot com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What are you watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and letterboxd at w aiw underscore podcast. Sorry about the Fury Road stuff. That was that was tough. I could feel the collective eye rolls. I feel your look next, we're going to completely change gears and not talk about the Oscars at all. Instead, we're going to focus on one of the most formative films of my life and it's a movie. Not a lot of people talk about it anymore. Barry Levinson's Sleepers. I adore this movie, so excited to get into it. Stay tuned.