116: Favorite About-Face Films

Why do we love movies we used to hate? Why do we dislike movies we used to love? Alex and Nick explore those questions as they list the movies they’ve changed their minds on the most. Stray topics include finding humor in horror, finding empathy in pain, weepy movies, and much more.
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Transcript

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Hey, everyone, it's Alex. Before we get going with the episode, this is just one of those weird things that happens. We recorded this episode the day before. The great actor Tom Wilkinson passed away. We mentioned Wilkinson in this episode, and I just thought it would be strange to hear us talking about him, but then not hear us acknowledge his tragic death. We will be talking about Wilkinson a lot more in our next episode. Stay tuned for that. Rest in peace, Tom Wilkinson. Okay. Favorite about face movies. Here we go. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex with Throw It. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there, Captain Z? Yes, Admiral? Yes, I'm excited to be civically. I was telling you about Strother Martin as the captain from Cool Hand Luke, because what we've got here is failure. appreciate that. Communicate. We're going to do a lot of communicating today, but today we're here to talk about our favorite about face films of all time. What does about face mean? A reversal of direction, a reversal of attitude, behavior, or point of view? What is it about face and how does it apply to movies? To me, it's just drastically changing your opinion on a movie. Typically, I use the term typically for the positive, though we will be talking about some negative about faces today as well. But that's all like you. And this can be for whatever reason. This is why I like talking about them, because it's not like, Wow, I watched that movie 15 years ago and it just it sucked and now it's good. The art does not change. We change. Yeah, that's what we're going to talk about today. I mean, I like the particular one of a reversal of attitude, behavior and point of view because, yeah, I think goes a little bit deeper as to like basically what we are talking about is, yes, the art doesn't change. We change. Can we, as fans of any type of art, allow ourselves to be okay with these changes, for better or worse? Yes, we have a tendency to hold on to the things that we felt and we may not even and I have one in particular that I held on to, and I was like, I really don't agree anymore or I don't feel the same way and that it can actually be okay. It we live in crazy times right now where people really hold on to what they hold on to. And not just art, but everything people dig their heels in on like every argument about every topic, and they refuse to change their opinion about anything. And yes, you're right, that that transcends definitely transcends art. It's just like everything in the world. It's everything. And I notice that more and more people just refuse to actually in or entertain the idea of like, yeah, maybe I don't feel that way. Interesting. Maybe I can dissect that. So I think this episode is actually a really cool episode to be able to talk about movies that we can actually give personal examples as to why we feel differently now. And yes, most of them are positive though, and I think that comes with age and wisdom and just, you know, living life even then, that's like acknowledging that part of it. So hopefully this conversation will make all of our mad movie buffs kind of open up and be like, Yeah, what movies do I actually like? Maybe I should give a second try. Yeah, it's always fun. Like for me, a few that are on my list, some are like a nagging about face where I saw it and maybe, maybe it was a shrug when I was done with it. Or maybe it kind of disturbed me. But then it never went away. Yeah, it doesn't go away. It just nags at me. And that nagging can last weeks, months, years, however long I let it before I revisit the film. And then, you know, word of mouth can also influence it. Sometimes it can be like, you know, you hear that everyone is like something or everyone's appreciating it. Or for me, a personal word of mouth, like someone whose opinions I really care about and they tell me something. I go, okay, maybe I'll look at that in a different way. And then, yeah, when you look at it the other way, the negative thing that that can be, there's so many reasons why that can happen. We get, I can have a sugar high from watching a movie and be like, my God, that was great. And then that just goes away. Movies can be hyped so much. The Oscars can help with that a lot. And then you come back five years later or something, you're like, my God, I didn't like that. Or God, that didn't have a lasting impact on me. One of the biggest things for me is if I've seen a movie again, if I've only seen like a movie once, a movie that I said I loved, my God, I love this. And then it's been five, ten years and I'm like, wow, I never had a single interest to go back and revisit that. It probably means I've had somewhat of an about face on it. Not like I don't usually go. I loved that movie too. An about face of I absolutely hate that movie. Now that doesn't it. Yeah you're never that extreme. Yeah I very, very strongly dislike some movies that I will talk about today that I now love. That hasn't happened. There's one in particular that I'm so excited to talk about because it was a true hatred and then a complete just I think I adore this movie now. Yeah, I just like even recently I recommended Master and Commander and one of my what you watching and that that was one where I just did for myself because silent 23 the memory I had of it, I mean, I remember seeing it, I remember the movie theater I was at. I just didn't it was like a shrug. That was a shrug. But I wasn't going around being like, Yeah, that movie sucks. Whenever anyone would ask me about it, I go, yeah, I remember that, whatever. And then because it's so beloved on the internet and it came out 20 years ago, I'm like, All right, let me just give it a shot. And I did and really, really liked it. I've also talked about doing that for other movies, giving them that second chance, and it just doesn't work out. And I go, No, I my instincts the first time were correct. So I kind of want to know, without spoiling our all time favorite about faces, what are some of the first instances or just one of a positive about face? You remember like liking a movie that you used to not like and then realizing, when did I like that? Or Okay, I like that. Now I'm going to go with with this example because I think it's the best one to answer this question. And I also want to get it out of the way, because I've talked about this many times. That's because I'm a broken record. But I think for me, that best example of that is American Psycho. Okay. Yes, Yes. Which is a top tenner for me. And it's all just due to a complete change of perspective. I think a lot of it still has to do with age, too. I saw that movie when it came out in video and when 2000. Yeah, and I was a kid and I just I just I didn't understand the complexity of humor, really, or satire in that way. Yeah. So I just thought this was the most disturbing fucking, like, brutal and mean and misogynistic movie I've ever seen. I was like, This is terrible. Like, this is just awful. And then it just took a friend to just like, and like, know this is funny and what, what do you mean American Psycho is funny? But what is funny about this? And then just letting that in and letting a brand new point of view, opinion, perspective change. Every single thought that I had, like it was like every new scene of the movie was a brand new scene. Just it was almost like seeing the world a brand new time for like 90 minutes, right? I just remember even thinking, I'm like, What else do I look at in such a rigid way that maybe actually has humor, not just movies, but just in life? Yeah, Yeah. But yeah, that's the first one that I ever truly remember just being flat out floored by. And it's now my top ten favorite movie. And I love that because that it's genuinely it's a conversation with a friend and then all you do in your brain is correct. The tone that you have set for the movie and you go, okay, wait a minute, I'm not watching like some serial killer thriller. I'm watching a comedy. Let's just do that. And then you do that and then, yeah, it allows you to see the humor. It does. So that's that's a great example. I've also mentioned these on the podcast before. Typically on the director's podcast when we've covered these directors, the first is The Shining without question because I mean, yeah, yeah, the first time I attempted to watch that I was age 11 and I was just bought and turned it off. I had seen it. I'd seen The Simpsons parodies of it, I'm sure parodies elsewhere. Yeah. And I thought the movie went by so damn slow and it took me that was probably like a year or two, like maybe Halloween when I'm like 13 with some friends. And then we put it on and I was like, okay. But that movie never did leave my mind however long it took me to revisit it. I honestly don't know exactly. It never left my mind. And that's been true of a lot of Kubrick movies. So like the first time you see them, you're like, And then you just it's because the craft is so good. You just go back and back and back. But that I was so young and just didn't get it and went, okay, I get it now. I think Stanley Kubrick is actually like a whole entire director that fits this conversation because I think most of his movies do this. I felt that exact same way about The Shining. I felt that way about your favorite eyes Wide Shut. A lot of people today, your favorite still do? Well, yeah. Hold right there. Eyes Wide Shut. And Dr. Strangelove was the same way. Yeah. yeah. yeah. I didn't have that opinion on 2001. I was floored by that the first time I saw it. And I also felt the same way about A Clockwork Orange. If anything, I think A Clockwork Orange is almost the opposite. It's still I love that movie, but every Stanley Kubrick movie to me gets better with each viewing A Clockwork Orange. It doesn't devalue by any means, but I don't get that brand new aging like a fine wine with that one. Yeah, yeah. I mean that because that film, like, assaults us when we see the first age. And it did. And that was what I probably saw 1213 as well. In fact, I know I did. And that's just an assault. And you're like, whoa, it's shots before. Yes. So shocking. But yeah, that was not one. No one's bored watching clockwork. No. Yeah. That's not Jesus. I think I think Kubrick is. I know we talked about that on our Stanley Kubrick episode, but he is someone that you do need to kind of give those movies more of a chance to watch that craft and it will get better. And then another one also talked about on his director's episode, but it was Jackie Brown, which I did not. theater. Yeah, I was 12 years old, didn't see in the theater, but I was already a massive pulp fiction fan by this point. I've seen it like dozens and dozens of times. Just rewinding the VHS over and over could not wait for Tarantino's next film rented Jackie Brown the day it was released on video. Made it about 45 minutes, turned it off. I just watch and watch Pulp Fiction again because I'm you know, it was not Pulp Fiction, too, which is what I wanted it to be. And then that one I remember did not take me long to revisit. I remember thinking like, I got to get like I have to finish it. I mean, this is Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. Like, I have to finish it. And I now, of course, as we mentioned time and time again, I love it's almost anti Pulp fiction stance how it's just so loose and so cool. And yeah, Jackie Brown is right up there as my favorite Tarantino film but and both of these obviously have to do with age and some of them Yeah a lot of them that are going to make my list is just seeing these too young. But you know, I also saw Taxi Driver when I was ten and love it, loved it as much then as I do now. So who knows why this stuff happens, but it just starts, you know. But yeah, Jackie Brown was not ready for it at all. Not because it's shocking, because it's too mature and well, I think then you also brought up a great a great word that I think applies a lot for today, too, is expectation. Yeah, we expect so many things now when New movies come out from directors that we love, we always have done that. But I think now, like we'll actually put this taste on things because we wanted something so bad. Yeah. So it's kind of a remarkable at such a young age that even after 45 minutes of Jackie Brown, that it didn't take long to be like, well, I mean, what am I going to not watch it? Like, yeah, I mean, some today people would they would be like, I turn it off and walk away. Yeah, yeah. And I don't blame them because we don't have time. We're oversaturated. If we don't like something quick then. But I think Jackie Brown, I think a lot of people have that reaction to Jackie Brown because it's by far one of his most different movies and not stylistically, but just it's slower. It's it's got so many different things that especially up until that point, you hadn't seen Tarantino do I know that was my reaction to it as well. That was a huge about face for me was Jackie Brown. Love it. So those are just some of the early ones. And well, I just want to point out that I, I believe it or not, your boy did some research for this pod. Okay. that's right. By beard. That's right. So let's see, because I was, like, going through all of it because this is a very personal conversation. Like, Yeah, the movies that we feel this way about are are going to be very, very different for other people to either agree or disagree on. But I was curious as to what the masses out there, if there is a movie that a lot of people feel this type of way about, and there is one that popped up, I would say 95% of any conversation I went in on. Maybe you can even guess what it is. No way are you talking went like that. Everyone liked the movie in that we hate it or know everyone dislike and then found a love for fuck. I don't know. It is also what happened when that movie came out to tell. It's a 1998 movie. I my God. I hope you're not going to say life is beautiful. Yeah, yeah. nice. 998 came. Okay, wait. 98, it came out. Came out. No one liked it. Everyone everyone signed appreciation for. We just fucking did. 1998. I know you're going to kick your ass. I should know this all top of my head. It's like how I didn't know the Travolta thing first. I don't know. Give it to me. The Big Lebowski Fucker dead. It's all my bucket list of such an asshole. How did I not get that? I'm staring right Fucking added. It's right there. Yes, that is. It's right. Right. That was The Big Lebowski. Yes. My note for it real quick was that when I first saw it, the humor in it is obviously like dumb, but there is also a level of a level of sophistication to the humor that I did not understand. Well, yes. Good call. That's a great fucking call. That's a universal about face. Yes, it's a universal one. No one like. Yup. Now we all love it. Great call. Duh. It's like every read it a whole I went down every like list that some website had about movies. I didn't like it first all of them had The Big Lebowski. So that is it's the Universal about Face movie. It's wow, that's a really, really good call. And I, I kind of have it's not as universal, but I have a universal ish one for the negative about like the the objective negative where we all like the movie ish. We all ish like the movie now. Like kind of no one likes it. Those are fun to research, too, but that's a great call. The Big Lebowski That is absolutely true. Just about everyone who saw that for the first time was like, You're welcome. Thank you. Good research. Good research. Okay, so let's talk about these. One of the first instances you remember of a negative about face like one a movie that you a movie that you used to like, and then you rewatch and you're like, God, I don't like that at all. And this is definitely happened with, like, movies I loved as a kid. I do not necessarily count those. There are no kids movies on my list. Yes, That's just that's everyone that's just age like nothing, no kids or whatever it is. Whatever you attach yourself to. And you're like five or six. Yeah. If you watch it when you're 35, it's not going to be as good. We're not talking about that stuff today. Yeah, Yeah. And I think that's just a given to like, of course you're not going to like certain things. The universal negative about face. I'm not I'm certainly not speaking for everyone, but a lot of people really liked Paul Haggis Crash when it was released in spring summer 25 and they were like, Hey, that's okay. And I don't think anyone had an issue with that movie going on to win screenplay and being nominated for Oscars. And the second it beat Brokeback Mountain for best Picture, it seemed like everyone just agreed to start hating that movie. And that is one of the most shit on movies and best picture winners of my lifetime. And believe me, like the love I had for that movie in 2005, I really I thought it was the most profound thing I had ever seen. my God, What an exposé on racism in America. And it is not that it is. It has some powerful scenes, but I don't hate it as much as a lot of people do now. But man, people just love to hate that movie. It's crazy. That is true. Like that is a movie that like I feel like even people who have never even seen it. Yeah, yeah. They'll jump on that bandwagon. I'll be like, yeah, Crash in 2004, 2005, like, and it's not a bad movie, but yeah, like it's one of those ones where it really did catch a lot of flak for the Oscar stuff. Yeah, you. I mean, you can have an embarrassment of riches like you can you, you can go, you can soar to the top too quickly. And people are like, wait a minute, this is. Yeah, it's like Creed. Yeah, sure, sure. Let's move on to the actual list here. All right. We're going to move on to our favorite about Face films. We're starting with the positive ones. We're going to have a lot more positive things to say in this episode than negative. But we are. We are going to have some hot takes toward the end. That's it. This is an open conversation. I was talking about the musical band, not the movie Creed. Okay, I it missed me. I thought I was like, I don't really get it. So the band Creed did descend very fast and now and everyone hated them. Everyone. Everyone talked so much shit about Nickelback. Same thing. Yeah, it can happen in art where you take so much acclaim and then people as a culture, we all kind of look back and go, What the fuck were we thinking? Like, what? What's that? Why did we all love that? And again, like, I don't I'm not hating on Crash like that at all. Like, I know there's some decent moments in it, but I do get a kick out of how many people detest that movie, especially online. Yeah. Good. Thank you for clarifying. That helped me a lot. Now you're welcome. Now the world can go back to spinning. All right. Favor about face films, positive open conversation. We're just going to go back and forth. I did split mine up into a few sections. First, I have what I call the classic about face. Maybe you grew up and like your parents loved one or two movies. And then by proxy, you had to love them. So growing up it was cemented in me that It's A Wonderful Life is one of the best movies ever made. It has always been in my dad's top five of all time. And it's, you know, it went on at Christmas. It's not like sit down and watch this, but it was just always on. It was always there. And because of this, I suppose a deep seated resentment toward that film brewed within me to where in my early twenties I was actively saying that I hated the movie. And then I thought it was too corny and, you know, Capricorn and all this stuff and all that nonsense and kind of not even appreciating the film for what it is more mad at the reputation that the film has, that this is the number one movie to watch at Christmas. And if you don't like it, then you suck. Yeah. And now it's just, I mean, you know, surprise, surprise. The movie's an absolute classic and I love it. And I just got finished rewatching it right before we recorded because I was not like a die hard fan of it so young. A lot of the lore of the film has missed me, so I had no idea that in the eighties there was a colorized version that was made behind Frank Capra's Back without his permission of any kind, and that's on Amazon as well. They both Amazon makes it look like the color one is the original because it just says it's a Wonderful Life in the black and white version as parentheses, Black and white version. I'm like, But this movie was shot in black and white. Like, that's the version. Like, that's the original version. So yeah, that was that was weird, though. Watching it colored people that it looks stupid. Don't don't do that. Watching a black and white, tremendously moving film. Yeah. As I got older, I went, Wow, this this has a lot to say about life and how we view ourselves and our worth as a person. It's a great film though. You might know something. I'd never seen it. I've never seen it. I've never seen a fucking shocker. Yeah, but stuff. But I think there's a the reason is you just made me think of something that I never really maybe realized about myself. I don't like Christmas movies, like, at all. Well, so here's the thing, man. This is the thing I think of associated it. People think it's a Christmas movie. There are Christmas themes in it, and a lot of people, myself included, and I've been talking a lot with friend of the part, Dan about this because Dan loves this movie. Dan weeps every time he watches this movie. And that's a huge thing to say about Friend He Weeps, weeps. He use that word. You want to look at every fucking note I fuck. I cry at the end of that movie every time I cried during most of that movie. It's crazy how it's only remembered for the last half hour. That was my next point. So not we took you, cried. Whatever. Thank you. I've seen. Call me out. Okay. So. Bye. He loves it. He cries and yeah, a lot of people associate it as a Christmas movie. And a lot of people think that the last half hour is the entire movie. And it's just not. It's it's it's a really, really interesting concept. Like if you're looking, what if you just decide one day like nothing in you're based on your perspective in life, kicked you down so much that you're like, what if I was just never here? What if I never existed? And then an angel makes that possible for you? So then you get to view your life as if you never existed, and how you think that may be of benefit to everyone in your life. Because you probably have depression and then you see how that damaged people with you not being around. Great message. It's a great film. You should see it. I've always known the structure of the movie. I've always known everything about it. It seems like it would be a movie that I would like. But what I'm saying, that's just the last half hour. What I just described is just the last half hour. There's a whole there's an hour and a half before that that does not have anything to do with like angels or he's not interacting with angels or anything like that. You just see a dude getting like doing right by other people and as a result, getting shit on his whole life because of it. So for 90 minutes you see this guy go through life, just get kind of shit on, but always because shit on might be too strong, but just he just gets beaten down by life by like, yeah, because he did the right thing for other people. He's the first brother, but because he decides to stay in town, his younger brother gets to go off to college. But if he's not around, then the younger brother isn't staying in town. He sued. I mean, so it's all about. Yeah, just cause in fact, it's great. I'm already getting a little a little weepy, weeping, weepy. I love that word. I love that word. No, I'm actually getting quite emotional even thinking about that. I think. I think I would like that movie a lot. You talk about the life lived stuff that that is. Yeah, but just my thing. And then also what I did not put into context when I was younger is that, you know, this was made in 46. This was right after the war, which severely messed up Capra, Jimmy Stewart It messed up everyone. So this is living in it just lives in the in the wake of that held that people must the fatigue of war the fog of war that people must have been feeling. Then it's a good movie. All right, All right. So I'll go. I'll go personal on this one. This is actually my favorite one. It's the one I was referencing earlier. Okay. Okay. Ironically enough, it's a Coen brothers movie. all right. And I'm talking about 2013 Inside Llewyn Davis. Wow. I did not like this movie when I saw it the first time. No, you didn't either. I know. This is great, dude. I didn't like it either. I saw it with my dad and I think he liked it, but I was like, What the fuck was that? I didn't get the narrative. I didn't. I didn't know he was going to be such an asshole. they tell us about this like evolution you've had with it. So I remember specifically was five years. I saw it in 2013 and then I saw it in 2018. When I saw it in 2013, I checked out of the movie when he left the cat and it doesn't ruin anything. That's fine. I just couldn't understand. And I love Oscar Isaac. I like him. It's not the acting I didn't like. It was the story. It was what was character was doing. And I was so bothered by every action and every every bit of behavior that he had. And I'm not someone that watches movies that needs to have a likable character at all. I actually appreciate when they're not likable, but this one was egregious. This one was out of control. He's such an asshole that it's alienating. It's like, Yeah, I do. I want to watch this person for any length of time. Yeah, exactly. And I wasn't really getting too much of the humor. I wasn't really picking up on anything that this movie was doing. And so I had a very, very strong stance of fuck that movie. I don't know what happened between my years of 2013 and 2018. I rewatched it and I would I would I would recognize is about myself and this is and this is putting a lot of like I'm not I'm not saying this is as meanly as it actually is. I identified with that movie in a very, very specific way because there is a selfishness that an artist has that I think that they kind of have to have about everything. And I think that's to me what that character is. He the only thing that mattered to him was his art. And it didn't matter who he used, who was or wasn't there. It was all in an effort to please his idea of what something should be. And I think maybe in 2013 I had done that and I didn't really want to take a look at myself and kind of look at some of those aspects that I actually have. And in 2018 I could and then I sympathized with him. Yeah, yeah, that's what's funny. Yeah. Now I'm like, Yeah, maybe that's not exactly what I would have done, but I get it. I get it. I totally get it. And then his plight that he was on, I'm like, Yeah, totally. So, so I think of living the life of an actor and doing things and trying to get art off the ground and trying to kind of navigate this crazy ass industry or whatever took its toll in the way of five years that I now appreciate Inside Llewyn Davis a lot. Have you seen it since? Because it's now it's been another five years. I haven't seen it in five years, but I do think I watched it at some point during 2020. I think that's my exact evolution with it as well. I saw it in the theater and was not very impressed though. Thought every performance was good, every performances great, felt the music was catchy, thought it was shot. Well, I'm like, What's missing here? Yeah, it was just like a story. The revolving narrative still confuses me how it, like, starts in and then goes circles back. So it starts where it ends or something. It's a very big swing movie, but without being flashy, it just it takes a lot of like, risks. So yeah, that was one I completely had a whole evolution with as well. And maybe I don't think we've ever really talked about that. So that's awesome. Yeah, that's it's become, it's become an artistic partner in a lot of ways. I love that. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. My next category, these are two I've also mentioned on the podcast before, one more in-depth, but these are my haunting about faces and I have two of them. This is where I watch them and actively or not, I rejected them and I went, That was too disturbing and disturbing for whatever reason, but it's too disturbing. And I was just convinced that I didn't really like them. And then they never went away. And now they're some of my favorite movies of all time. The first one is The Deer Hunter, which was the most disturbing movie I had ever seen. I thought when I was ten years old. Thanks, Mom with that and had no idea like what that was, what was going to happen in it, you know, But talk about an assault, talk about how shocking was. But I was just so disturbed by how much everyone meant to each other. And, you know, we did a whole podcast about that. So we talked about it and I talked about my evolution in my about face that I had with that movie and how within two years it was just in my top five. And it's now it really hasn't left my top ten since I first saw it once. I came back to it and realized how incredibly disturbed I was and how that could be a good thing. Not every movie has to be, you know, sunshine and rainbows and some movies. The intention could be to disturb and just to show a real human story. So yeah, that and then the other one I have here is a get talked about it before but it is Gavin O'Connor's warrior from 2011, which was which I saw the week it came out. And, you know, I think I even wrote a review of it on my blog and gave it like a B. And so that's like by no means hating it. Just yeah, okay. B, and had no reverence toward it, no real nothing, and then would not go away for months and months that the entire run of that movie being in theaters, it never left my head. And I remember its last day in the cinema. I remember clocking that in the Thursday that it was going to be, you know, the last showing because Friday new movies come in. And I went to that viewing and just wept. There it is. Wept, wept most of the time and realized how how much I had rejected the movie because I felt so assaulted by the personal things in it, by the brother relationship, by the very tense family dynamics of the movie, by the alcoholism in the movie, which I think is I mean, what Nick Nolte does that is really volcanic and kind of remarkable. So, yeah, that's one. I mean, you know, warrior was well, it just it really, really messed me up. And then once I locked into how much I loved it, the movie kind of changed my life and has been one of the life defining movies for me. And it I can't even go into all the ways that that movie changed me and how it influenced so much of what I wrote after, how it so influenced my first feature film, Weight. my God, Yeah, huge movie to me. I don't I it's it's it's it's I. Because I know how much that movie means to you. I don't think I ever knew that you didn't really have a strong opinion of it the first time. So I saw it and I didn't realize this in the moment. I've realized this with years of introspection and even some therapy, like specifically talking about this movie. It just reminded me too much of my brother and my relationship with my brother. And we were I used to box not on like the level that they are performing may nothing like that. And my brother was not a Emma has never been part of our family. Nothing ever like that. But there was there was substance abuse issues with him and there was a lot of mental health issues. And we had an extremely combative relationship for our entire lives. And in 2011, I was at a place where I had zero active empathy for him. I mean, virtually none. We were not on speaking terms at at all. It wasn't it wasn't something where we would like see each other and argue all the time that we just didn't speak or see each other ever. And that movie allowed me to have a little empathy for him, which I, you know, never shared with him. And that's, you know, that's my own cross to bear, and that's the way that I wanted it. But it allowed me to understand him a little better. And no one in Warrior has like severe mental illness. No one has schizophrenia like my brother did. Like, that's not it just it's not because the movie was shining a mirror on me. The movie forced me to look at myself in a way I was refusing to. Yeah, I didn't that. Wow. I didn't really know what was going to work like that. But that's exactly what the movie did. And it was so it was just so insulting and I just like, kind of rejected it. And now I. I mean, yeah, you talk about weeping. Like, all joking aside, I cannot put that movie on without getting a extremely emotional at the end. I had I had heard of the band The National, but I never heard them to tell you how much I fell in love with them because an extended version of About today plays over the final fight in the movie. It changed my life. Just hearing that I structured the entirety of the weight screenplay around that final fight in Warrior. It's weird. I did this whole, like, little dance with it and yeah, it very, very profound movie on me. For me, Gavin O'Connor can do this the way back. Remember the way back in 2020? That was the last movie I saw before COVID. And then that movie just got so royally screwed by COVID. No movie more. That has been Affleck, if not his best work. We do love him in Gone Girl. Big fans, Ben Affleck in Gone Girl. But his performance in the way back is one of the best portrayals of an alcoholic that I've ever seen. But the fucking the routine of the beers in the fridge. I get chills talking about this one in the freezer. And then that's the one you drink next and you take one from the fridge. Put it the freezer, your drink, I mean. my God. And you texted me like, we're deep in the cove, and you're like, What do you think of the way back? And I remember texting you back saying, I have almost no recollection of that movie. It was the last movie I saw before COVID. And then because of your text, I went I went back and rewatched it on Hulu and fucking wept like the whole time. Jesus Christ, this movie is great. So yeah, Warrior way back. But warrior. yeah, one of the most important movies to me personally, I've never, not, never, rarely has a film forced me to examine myself and examine some really difficult things than myself, some stubbornness, some lack of empathy, some closed off ness, all that stuff. And then, yeah, I don't know if this stuff's important to bring up, but, you know, my brother died in 2016. He died by suicide. And that I have this movie as a blanket, as a nice warm blanket, which it is. It is not upsetting for me to watch it, you know? And my brother never knew about my love for this movie and how it connected, how I had formed a connection with the movie with him. I we never got to talk about that. But that's, you know, it's all good. Everything's all good. I love that film. I'm going to watch it real, real soon. Let me tell you why I can't follow that one. Yeah, you can. It's all good. On the humor back. Well, no, because I was going to go even deeper. go deep. Go deep. Deeper than maybe deep, deep, though. That's what he's listening to, Nick Nolte, he listens to throughout that whole movie, the audio book stuff, The Chaparral Man. He's great. He's great. NULTY All right. Now, this is a this is a movie that I, I never wanted to rewatch again because I disliked it so much. And it's because of you that you disliked it or that you went rewatched it. Well, so I so when we first met and you were and you were introducing me to a new level of cinema that I had never known, you know, and we talked about this on this particular episode. But there's one particular movie by Ingmar Bergman that I just, yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't. And, and that was Cries and Whispers, Cries and which is why talk about another war and Blake it up the movie for Alex literally I think it. God. what an assault. I mean, it was just like the first time watching it. I was just like, Jesus, fuck. What am I like, How are we? Like, this is just bad thing after bad thing after bad thing. It's true. And and it's it's. I just never wanted to watch it again. I don't. I don't even think I appreciated it. I don't. I think I just like came out of that movie and I was like, yeah man, thanks for showing me that. I never want to go through anything like that ever again. Yeah, it's it's tough. It's a tough movie. And then we got ready for our huge and still one my to this day favorite because Ingmar Bergman is top two favorite director the Ingmar Bergman podcast on what You watching is our second highest podcast ever. That is insane. I've mentioned that the pod with Maziar. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. still going. Still growing in numbers. Thank you. Yes, everyone, you people getting ready. And I'm like, Fuck, I got to watch this again. Yeah, I got to do it because I know it's still it's your top ten favorite of all time. Maybe because I was already in the world of Ingmar Bergman. That probably helped. But we are talking about, I would say, more than five years of a break because you probably showed me that movie in 2015 or 16. Yeah. And then I had and watched it again until 2122 whenever we did it last year. Man, is that movie so good? And I just like, yeah, maybe because I went into it with a little bit of a guard up, like knowing full well, okay, I'm about to watch them. It's going to be really emotionally. I found that it wasn't. I just sort of kind of was like, sure, it's not easy. Like, there are some things that are still like when they happen, like they it's a guttural like, I mean, my God, like it takes your breath away in a very, very heavy way. But I also was seeing for the first time the the humanity of it's just the word I was going to use. Yes. Yes. I took it away from me. And this is crazy to think about it this way, because this is what we're what we do as people is we internalize everything. This time I was like, maybe I can actually remove myself from this and not worry about what I'm thinking, but actually think about the people in an empathetic way. And I don't know, that just changed everything. And now I'm looking at this movie and I'm like, my God, this is great. To the point where I'm laughing at certain parts. yeah. I mean, well, we talked about that a lot in that episode. He's probably our favorite screenwriter because he can just cut and you're like, Whoa, I didn't expect that. Like, you just get it. Cuts right in. There was something that can be sometimes it can be so shocking that it's funny. You're like, my God, Yeah, like what? You say that or you use glass that way. Like, my. yeah. It's. I mean, that's not funny. Yeah, come on. I'm not saying No, that's not funny. That's funny. But yes, I, but it is. I totally get what you mean. It's, it was like that glass part and I was so shocked. Like, the first time I remember seeing that particular scene when that happened. I was like, Fuck that. No, no, absolutely not. Like, I'm not. No, no, no, no, no, no. The second time I watched it, I think I forgot that it happened. I think I had blocked it. Yeah, but my reaction towards it then became like, in a way where it's I don't know. I'm not saying it was good. It's not. It was just something where the movie. Well it's, it, it's good for the character in the movie. She's smiling as she does it. She's doing it with tension. So if you can put yourself outside of it and just put yourself in the headspace of the character, you go, that's fucked up. Not like, Nope, nope, can't watch it. Nope, can't do it. You're like, that's so fucked up. Which is exactly what you're supposed to be thinking. So it sort of kind of begs the question is sometimes what I'm just thinking of this right now is like when we're watching a movie, where is the line where we internalize something and put it on us? Because that's important to do a lot. Like your experience with Warrior, for example. Exactly. And then when do we take ourselves out of that equation and observe the humanity of what we're seeing through an observational lens as opposed to an internal one? And I wonder how many times I possibly may have done that through a lot of movies where maybe I should have flipped the cap and watched it from a different way as opposed to trying to internalize it or whatnot. Well, when your Christmas gift arrives, you can put on gas bar and noise vortex anytime you want. You shut the fuck up. my God. I swear to fuck. I. no. that is a hard no bullshit. This is exactly what you're talking about. Okay. Yes, you're right. But I'm not sending it to you for Christmas. I'm kidding. I would burn it. I will burn it. That'd be great. fuck. okay. All right. You run 2%, right? You're 100% right. That's a great example of exactly what I was saying. And I'm not ready. I'm not ready for that. It hasn't been five years. It needs you know, it needs time helps a lot. But I think in terms of that, like that assault we're talking about, that shock, that shock of it cries and whispers has some shocking stuff. Yeah, my closest to that is Deer Hunter and Warrior, Definitely just in terms of how much they well, and then I needed to go. I knew I needed to go back to them. So I'm glad that this pod made you, you know, motivated you to revisit it because it's it's even at 90 minutes it cries and whispers is not something that should be watched once. It needs to be watched, in my opinion, studied. But, you know, just give it at least two watches and just look at the colors, the colors. And there might be something to also I wonder if that's a movie where because you can warn somebody all you want about it. Yeah, I think it does need to come with a warning in some degree. Like if someone's going to be like, are you going to watch my cries and whispers? okay, you are. If you've seen it before, you know what you're getting into. Really? Trigger warning. This movie is 90 minutes long and will ruin your next 90 days. Yes. I mean, hey, that's always good for me. What can we say? Like, that's, you know, you know what you get for other you know it from early, you know, from our great grandpa. We know what we get from these folks. my God. All right, my next category. no. I was going to say, are we going to lighten it up? Are we going to switch the low? Yes, actually. yeah. no. We're going to talk about dying. Is that like a name? Not really, no, though. Okay. This is my section where I call the getting older and wiser about face. And this is strictly like, you have it too. You just follow in my whole entire pattern right here without, you know, here we go, do it. And this means specifically these movies are somewhat about aging, but really about like life or masculinity specifically, and meaning not understanding, not being in the right place for that. So the first is Schenectady, New York, which I just did not get at all. When I first saw it, I was like, What is this? What's going on? I can appreciate the scope of it. I didn't know what it was about. I didn't know what was going on. I just didn't get it. And then, if I'm not mistaken, so in the theater 2008, and if I'm not mistaken, that became Roger Ebert's favorite film of the decade, I believe. Yeah, he released that list probably in 2010, and that made me go and revisit it. And it still was okay. I kind of get it. So he so Ebert was like writing about it a lot, not just his review. He had like his blog. And I was I was following it right along and like, trying to get it and trying to investigate. And then when it clicked like, this is just about a guy dying. Like this is about a guy's life. And, you know, you can walk away with whatever interpretation you want. But I was gaining an appreciation with each viewing and, you know, I'm maybe revisiting it once a year. And then he died, Philip Seymour Hoffman died. And that tragically made it really made this movie. I it made me get it more. And I went, I've had such an evolution with that film from the first time I saw it to its star tragically dying to me, really, really appreciating it. I think that's the movie that I, I can't even really it because the first time I saw was the only time that I saw it. wow, man. Yeah, I probably have four or five viewings under my belt because that is one that I even the first viewing, I watched it and I go, All right, this is not a movie that I can accurately give an opinion on until I see it at least one more time. Did you just see it for the four often part? Yeah. yeah. Okay. Because was like I remember one saying that. Yeah, that's right, That's right. Okay. And I liked it, but there was just so much more there that like, you can't grasp. And I think it probably didn't want to either. I think I probably didn't want to talk or deal with some of that stuff because that is one where I probably would. I think I did internalize that one. But I've always wanted to go back and watch that again. This is a complete side. Quest But what did you think of Bow is afraid. Wow. Yeah, this is I need to watch. Did you see it? No, but I really want to. I need to I'm going to rewatch it before our top ten of 2023 episode, which will likely come out in the end of January. I do not think it will make my list, but I do think it will get an honorable mention because that is one I think that is a an absolutely perfect cop for Schenectady, New York. I'm not saying they're exactly the same. HBO's Afraid goes places that Schenectady, New York, whenever a dream of HBO's afraid of some shit in it that I've never seen in a movie and that my jaw was just dropped going, well, but only saw it once in my feelings for it were very similar to the Schenectady, New York, feelings where I went, okay, I know one can watch HBO's Afraid the first time and quote unquote get it all. You just can't. There's way too much in it. But I got the intention of it. I got what he was going for without having to read his quote of him calling it a Jewish anxiety movie. That's what Ari asked to refer to it as. That's how it played for me. And I was like, okay, I get this a lot. A lot of mother son stuff a lot. So yeah, liked it, but hard to grasp like a concrete opinion. It's very big. It is supremely fucking strange. It's one of those ones that just get stranger and stranger and stranger and it's 3 hours long, so it's, you know, it's a it's a long 3 hours, but it's weirder than shit. I'd be interested to hear your hear your thoughts. Like it? I don't know. I am going to revisit. I'll put it that way. I've been waiting for it to come on streaming for, like, free. I don't think it's going to, so I'm prepared. I'm prepared to do that. Whatever. 599, 699 to watch it. But I'm prepared. It's weirder than shit. I'm prepared. I'm prepared. I've been saving this. So. Yeah. Good, good movie different. I like that people like R.E.M. exist and people are giving him money to make movies because there's no one making movies like that guy does. So that's great. Whether I love all of his movies, whatever, that doesn't really matter. I'm so glad that guy is as young as he is making the types of movies he is. Hell yeah. All right, Give us an about face. All right. So I guess it's kind of keep going with yours. Yes. With some things that I probably and we just talked about this in our Martin Scorsese episode, the first time I saw Raging Bull. I just didn't. I couldn't like, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't understand what I was watching or I was appreciating it, but it was one of those ones where it's like, man, this is just a it's tough, man. It's tough. It's just tough. There's a lot of people love Scorsese, love them, a lot of really famous podcasters whose podcast I listen to and they don't like that movie. And Scorsese, who they'd probably say is their first, second or third favorite. And that movie's just too much for them. Like, it is a lot to watch Robert De Niro as Jake LaMotta just punch his wife in the face. Just puncher. Yeah. Kathy May already I mean, he just decks her in, lays her out, and there's a lot of disturbing stuff in that movie. And then the next scene we see them, she takes them back like she's packing up and then takes him back and it's like, this is. This is the way their world went. It's a supremely disturbing film. I understand. Completely understand. I saw it when I was a kid and I was just like, I just don't think like as a kid, you can really get it. It is. It's just too tough in that way, I think. And then I seen it again when I was in college and then appreciated it a lot more. But it wasn't until this last time for the Scorsese part where I rewatched it, where I got everything okay and I and I was like, my God, this is just it's the ultimate. Like, this is what violence? And like, toxic masculinity. It's just a complete exploration in that. And then I think I even said this on the part, I think that is my favorite shot movie I've ever seen. It's fucking gorgeous. It's just it's gorgeous. But that so it's weird because I never disliked it, but it was one that even as a kid, I remember watching it and just being like, I don't dislike it, but I don't get it and, and it's a lot. Then I would watch it again and I was like, I still like it, but I don't get it. But you would hear Raging Bull is one of the best things ever this this this in this best edited movie of all time according to like the Editors Guild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's got all these accolades and then so now coming around to it at 37. Yeah I get it. And now I, it's just it, it's, I forgot where I placed it on my Scorsese list or two but I know it's, it's, it was in the top five and Yeah. So I guess it's a weird about face where it was just I needed time and age and and everything to kind of mature into being able to embrace what that movie was trying to do. And it's not for everybody. No, it's totally it certainly isn't. I think maybe even as a younger person, I was like, there's like, there's something about this that I get, but I don't get now. Of course, I need I need time and then eventually say, okay, I get it. Not every movie we're talking about today are movies that we absolutely detested and then grew to love. It's not that extreme, but it's yeah, that I mean, my next one is Moneyball, and that is the exact Moneyball is not an assault. Moneyball is not tough, but it was one where I saw it and I'm like, Yeah, I like that. That was good like that. That's a good movie. I immediately. You were lukewarm, lukewarm on Moneyball, probably because I immediately after Moneyball within 45 seconds was in a screening of Drive and saw that for the first time. So that just they opened the same weekend so that like completely blew it out. But again, like Moneyball, it just wasn't what I was expecting. I thought was going to be a baseball movie, like some thrilling baseball movie in baseball is not a big part of that movie at all. It's just it's much more about Brad Pitt's character, Billy Beane, and then that movie not Leaving My head and nagging and nagging, gain it on gain and on gain. And now it's like, I'm just looking at the Blu ray, like, that's one. I love to put that movie on. I just man. His the way that he expresses his frustration has been so me at different points in my life. Or babe, specific points. You're in an empty parking lot. I've never done this. What? Being the desire to be like in an empty parking lot and just pedal to the metal. You're in a truck and you just gun it and then you brake really hard. Then you just got it. You break, you're achieving absolutely nothing. It's just frustrating being so fucking pissed that something isn't going your way and just turning a radio on for 5 seconds. Still not on my way off. On, off. The way that he carries himself is so akin to being. I'm not trying to make a sweeping universal statement, but it's just it's so telling for a certain type of man, I suppose. And I completely got it. I'm not like that all the time. I'm not saying there's a time in my life, but that's how he responded to everything. But I just get it. I've never been a big like screamer in conflict. I'm not really like that. I can keep it very stewed, kind of inside. You've seen me even on movie sets when things were not going our way because like logistics, I will sit here and just stew and like pace and be like, All right, how what are we going to have to do here? This could get bad. What's going to need to happen and yeah, I just get it now. I love that movie. I love Moneyball. I love that movie. And I'm just talking about one specific aspect, but I love everything about it. I love how fast the editing is going. I love the dialog and stuff that is not a a drastic about face that I had, but it's a cool one for me to talk about because I was very lukewarm on it. It maybe made my top ten of the year. I think it did, but now would be like in the top. We talked about that in our favorite movies of 2011. Episodes like that would be way up there for me now, in a year of really, really good movies. Moneyball Rocks. All right, that's cool. We said we both had ones that we were like, lukewarm. And and it was never like because we talked about ones we just did not like. Yeah. And then grew to like them. So now we're moving up in temperature, moving up in temp. Well, yeah. And my next one, my next category is called Damn, this guy is good about faith, where you just can't deny it. Really? Like, damn, this guy's good. And what I mean by that is the winter 1997, there was this tiny movie coming out that everyone had been talking about for a while, was called Titanic, and you would like kind of heard some things about it. And then it became the number one thing and it swept. It was mono culture to the max. And I know you didn't have this relationship with it, but I fucking hated Titanic. I hated James Cameron. I hated this. In 1997, I, I was one of those people. I hated Leonardo DiCaprio. I went to that movie and suffered through it. I didn't like anything of it. I was a hater that was a 12 year old hater. I for me, yeah, I didn't want to see any of it. I hated James Cameron. I hate all of his movies. I hated what he stood for. I knew this made T2 and I like like that. But I was like, I hate this guy. I've been hearing about this movie for like, it feels like half my fucking childhood. It's going to win Every Oscar did win every Oscar. This I hate this movie. This movie sucks. Then I put on a movie called The Abyss. I never seen The Abyss. And my first viewing sitting there in Titanic Fever Mania, I was sitting there watching the abyss and going, Damn, this guy is good. And I really, really like this movie. So this is a bit of a cheat because it was my first time watching The Abyss that made me realize that James Cameron is James Cameron and that Titan, while I'm a 12 year old, not really into like sweeping romances, is a phenomenal achievement. And every movie he's made is a masterpiece. And it was the Abyss that really clicked that in for me. And what was so cool, so cool is that they just released this in the theaters for a night, and I went and got to see it and it was fucking amazing. You know, the 4K is supposed to be coming out in March. It's the movie that's never been available on Blu ray. really? Yep, Yep. He's doing Titanic. 4K came out. He's apparently doing True Lies Aliens. we're just talking about this. I know, I know. It's it's supposed to be happening in March, so we'll see. Yeah. The abyss was a huge game changer for me in opening up an entire director's body of work. Yeah, and it's still my favorite. Cameron. It is. I love The Abyss. I love that movie. it's so good. Yeah, it's so good. Director's cut. Yeah. yeah, that's. That's what. No, no, no, that's. And that's the. my God. What a huge like thing to talk about because the theatrical cut, Like, why they made him cut it down. It just sucks. The director's cut is really encapsulates the entire vision of what he was trying to say with the wave and with all that stuff. Like, it's very, very important to if you're watching this movie, to watch the director's cut, and that's what he's remastering at 4K and that's what I saw in the theater. And it was awesome. Awesome. Yeah, Yeah. I've wanted to do you know, we talked about that around Avatar, the way water. Do we do a Cameron pod? Do we just talk about Avatar? And we did talk about Cameron a lot, but at some point we'll have to do, I don't know, just the whole pod on him. But yeah, I got I love the abyss. Everything. I love Ed Harris and Michael Biehn got beans. Great draw Green is so good. It's fucking good. So, yeah, just want to talk about how that got me to explore an entire director's body of work and understand how ridiculous I was being because I was mad at Titanic. I was much more of like an L.A. Confidential, Good Will Hunting guy. The movies that had, like, no chance of winning. Yeah, the big award. I was on that team I used to get. Really, really. I used to really, really care about the Oscars. Like, I would argue for like, 20 minutes about the visual effects. Oscar I would never do that today. Never. Yeah. No, you just not worth really lost that steam. That passion really just seems to have really died out. Morons. Fucking idiots. All right. What's one from you? I got two right here. That. That I link these two together. Actually, there's three. Really. But I mean, talk about two specifically where I think it was just a matter of being young and just not recognizing that I was watching a really fucking good movie. And this is the one that's like my number one. Like I, when I rewatch this, I go, This thing is fucking great. I was just too young. And that's the Talented Mr. Ripley. cool. I didn't know this because we talked about this. We did favorite movies in 1999, which I believe is episode 1011 ish, and then Philip Seymour Hoffman. So, okay, I didn't know this. I didn't know this when I first watched it. It was when it came out in 1999. Yep. And I was just sort of like, what is this movie? Is this one of those gay movies? Like, you know, And as a kid, you're like, I don't know, like, I wasn't picking up on anything the movie was about. I think I watched it because I was probably trying to get into movies and was like, I hear this is like a really good movie and everything. I was a kid and I just did not get it. And then when we watched it for the 1999 episode, I was like, This thing is just the best movie. God. it's got everything. It's funny, it's got suspense, it's thrilling. It is meticulous. yes. And from like a precision standpoint is so well taken care of. yeah, yeah. The, the every little bit of his mistakes and his achievements throughout the whole entire thing are so well done that when even the slightest little subtlety of another character's look or or an idea of coming from a different direction affects Matt Damon's character. It's like it's. It's hypersensitive. You're like, my God. And as the movie builds, it just I'm like, This movie's incredible. Very good. I love this great movie. I didn't know about any of this. Yeah, I mean, that Talented Mr. Ripley at that age, like, there's a lot of good text in the movie when it's just like stuff on the surface. But that whole movie subtext and you can't, like, pick it up, you don't know what all the glances mean and all, all this stuff. But yeah, you, I wasn't really able to locate the humor in it necessarily. In 99, but now, you know. Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me. You think that movie's hysterical? And I mean, it's crazy when a director makes because Anthony Minghella is movie out. Before that, the English Patient is like, that's an Oscar movie when you picture director. And then I think a lot of people are like, you know, Talented Mr. Ripley is better. It's just this weird kind of thing. And Tom Ripley as my movie fandom, just with every passing year, it's like I find a new Tom Ripley movie and there's so many adaptations of these novels and it's really great. It's a fun character to explore, if you like the character. A lot of people have done it. That's great, though. I had no idea that like it, that revealed itself to you and such a different way. what's another one, though? Because you had like two or three there. So the other one was the exact same type of thing where I was like, I think this movie's too mature for where I'm at and I just can't really grasp on to the nuance of it. And that's the movie that we did talk about in our 1982 episode, and that's the verdict. wow. Okay. Well, had you seen the verdict when we recorded that episode? yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean. That's what. That's what. Turn me all around. I got you. Because being such a Paul Newman fan as a kid and watching all these older movies and see top three favorite actor, like someone was like, you got to see the verdict. And I watched the verdict and I was like, This movie's slow. Like, What am I really watching? It ends up being one of my favorite Paul Newman performances ever because it's probably his most I don't know if I use the word subdued, but it's his most like it's Paul Newman is such an entertaining guy and like all of his performances, like, like he's he is that extra vert outgoing that that charisma. yeah it's just it leaps off the screen. This is the one where he just bottles it all up literally and and yeah literally. It's almost like what ends up pouring out is the best part of it. And, and I love this movie. awesome. Love, love, love this movie so much. It was just the time where I was like, I just I don't get this. It's slow. It's, you know, and I think that's probably a thing now where I wonder how this movie would do for someone who hasn't seen it just because of attention spans today. Well, yeah, sure. Can we really sit with like a lawyer type movie where there's not a lot of action or this or that? It's all really in the slow burn of this guy and what he decides to do. That's the thing. It's about a guy. It's not about a case. And a lot of really good courtroom movies are about the case. We're invested in the case, and the case is important, but it's more like everyone's asking, Why do you give a shit about this case? This was supposed to be easier. Just supposed to, like, plead this out. Like, this is an easy thing, But, you know, he's this. He's. Yeah, he's a completely subdued, like, just down on his life alcoholic. He's a bad alcoholic. Like getting to the bar before work. They got eggs on the bar. Raw eggs. You can just pour into a beer. And that's how they're starting their day. Like he's so far gone and that's just him. Like he's great in the movie. But then you have James Mason, who's such a snake and like Jack Warren's great. Charlotte Rampling is great. Got to break your heart a little bit. You know who wrote this movie? Do you know who wrote it? I yes, Yes. And fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yes, I do. Because it's so. my God. my God. my God. my God. Your least favorites. The great David Mamet. Yeah, I know. Fucking Mamet. Great. David Mamet. Yeah. The guy who you used to not like. And now you're having an about face in real time on I, I Listen, I've always respected David Mamet. You know why? Because he fucking rocks. Yeah. And now you welcome. I don't know his rocks. I don't know if he rocks. He certainly rolls. He's a roller. He's a roller. But to make you do a David Mamet episode at some point. But no, it's I think it's I think a lot of the detached is in Paul Newman is that's based in Mamet's inherent pessimism and maybe not pessimism, but just cynicism. And Mamet's like, this is what life is. I'm going to spell it, write the fuck out for you, Whatever you do with it, it's up to you. But yeah, the verdict that I didn't not expect that to be on your list. And that is just that's a great, great call. That's great. And then I have one more word around the South. Do I know you're going to. This is going to blow your top off. Okay. I'm paying attention. I am now a huge fan of this movie, but I don't think I've ever told you that when I first saw this movie, I did not like it at all. More lies, more fucking lies. All right. Yeah, Well, and this is from the great movie Year of 2007. I did not like Michael Clayton the first time I saw it. It's not like, okay, this is not a lie. Because you weren't. It's not like I made you watch this and you're like, yeah, I really like that movie. Okay, Yeah, yeah, man. This is one like, I loved. I mean, real time watching it. Absolutely loved it. Have always loved it. But let's hear about. No, I remember I this with I believe I went with my college girlfriend and I think this was an expectation situation. Sure. I wanted something. And it's so funny to use this word because now they think the movie is unbelievably incendiary. But at the time, I think I wanted I wanted I don't know. I think I wanted action. I think I wanted something like not as well. It's just a legalese movie. It's a process. It's you, you little you just you just called out The Verdict, directed by Sidney Lumet. Yeah. Michael Clayton is a Sidney Lumet movie. In 27. You know, it's like a 70. Yeah. Lumet movie circa 27. And that's it. And it's just a slow brew, like following a guy. Yeah, there's no the trailer will show you that there's like a car exploding and stuff, but that's not what the movie is, you know, So is always about it all. And, and I think I was looking for something more like that and was not prepared to get a slow burn. And, and everything that's happening in the subtleties and the details and all of this and that. And then when I rewatched it for no reason, no reason at all, like if you like a year or two ago, I go, this movie's Brock fucking movie. So, so good for Clooney. So I'll bet my favorite Clooney. you know, I've always I fucking love him in that. I love him if you your favorite. Clooney yeah, yeah. I mean spoiler. But yeah, I've always said that that is, man, if you've ever spent time with just about stark raving lunatic, what Tom Wilkinson is doing, that movie is so realistic and effective. Just the constant rambling, but the rationalizations in the way. Yeah, I don't remember the exact line, but he's like, I've spent 22% of my life working law firms, and then I remember seeing that and actually doing the math like I did his age and how long he had worked at the law firm. And I was like, God, it is like exactly 22%. Like that's it's such a weird way to quantify information. And in that lunacy, they can make some good points. But like, maybe you shouldn't be stripping your shirt off in the middle of a deposition to make said point. It's a very, very effective movie. I love that movie. First time writer director, which is fucking crazy when you think about it. That's. Yeah. Tony Gilroy. He'd been in the game, right? He had a he had screenplays under his belt. But first time director called. I love that movie. Yeah, It's so good. Yeah, really, really like it. Good. I love hearing that. Yeah. I don't think that's the last time Michael Clayton's going to be mentioned in 2024 on this podcast. Stay tuned for the next one. We've also talked about we covered him, did a director's part on it. This one I still think you're a bit lukewarm on. I do think it's. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. First time I saw inherent vice in the Arclight two. I did not have the slightest fucking clue what's going on the entire time. I, I had no clue what was going on and I just got mad about it and I realized like an hour and a half in, I went, I guess I was supposed to not follow along and just give in to this. But now that I, like, haven't I don't know where we are. I don't know what's going on. I do think this is somewhat the intention of the movie, as weird as that sounds. I do think it's just a it's very shaggy dog kind of movie and I never had an interest in revisiting it, saw it once in the theater and was like, okay, it's exceptionally well shot. Some of the performances are hilarious and fun and, you know, it's all good. I like the music and it all, all that stuff. But it took on doing that podcast on him to where I made myself sit down and watch it. I watched it a few times and really tried to get what he was going for. And this is not an A-plus to me. This isn't one where I've had this drastic about face, and I'm like, This is the best PTA movie. I would never say that, but I absolutely get what he was going for now, and I really do love the movie. I love it for everything that it is not what I think I wanted it to be or what I thought it was going to be. I love it for what it is, but it is a it's a looser hell movie. Yeah, not my feelings are not lukewarm. I tried with that movie. I've tried very hard. Yeah, I still can't do it. That's what I mean. But like, when was the last time you tried to watch it for the PTA? PTA? I think you mentioned that even on the pod. Yeah, like a lot of people can't. A lot of people just have a wall. I've actually found it. This is what people at Licorice Pizza. More than anything. People talk about digging your heels. And people just dug their heels in on that movie. A lot of people who definitely not see it and just think that that's like the worst movie ever made or something. So I don't know. I don't, you know, whatever for that. But we have both like licorice pizza since we saw it. But yeah, Inherent Vice is one that of all of his movies. That's what I've had the most difficult time with and the one that is Yeah. That I still probably have the most difficult time with. But I did not like that movie at all when I saw 2014, like at all. And I really appreciate it now. So that's all I've always enjoyed. Like the only way that I can really kind of get with that one is when I can't care about it. Yeah, it just has to be on. It's very detached. It's very detached. I just have to because I love the characters. I love I love that whole entire world of that time of like Venice and and and just the weirdness, the hippie culture, the whole entire thing. Like there's some laugh out loud, funny moments in that movie for me. Yeah, but just as a whole, it just. I mean, Josh Brolin ordering pancakes. Is it like. It's extremely funny to me. Extremely funny. Yeah. You got great jokes. You're you're going to need to get good and fucked up for this meal. I love that waitress. Anyway. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, maybe you never will. That's. I just wanted to mention, because I know for a fact a lot of people have had issues with that movie. I also know a lot of people who love Inherent Vice and have always loved it. yeah, I never read the novel. So I think if you're into that like that helps you. Well, that's my mom, said Thomas Pynchon. Is that what it is? Yeah. I mean, yeah, but apparently the novel is like that. Like the novel is very open. And so that's what I mean. Like he it sounds like he actually sucked true to the novel. Does it make for a good movie? Does it make for his best movie? I don't know. I'm just saying it's one that I appreciate more because I met it on its own level, on its own terms. This is one that I know that we have talked about. This one. I was not a fan of The Wolf of Wall Street the first time I Watched it. yeah. You did mention. Yeah, Yeah. I've always fucking loved it. Yep. And and now that's just become one where it was an instant switch to. It was the first time I saw it. I was like, What are we doing here? I mean, it's crazy. It's outrageous. It's it's outrageous. And I was getting all of that, but I found myself just not caring about the movie. And then the second time I watched it, it's like the second it started, I was immediately I was like, What the hell? Like I am. I'm loving every and then as every scene goes on, I just go, okay, I was just wrong the first time I watch this. I don't know. I must have been in a mood. There must have been something. I don't know what I that. And now that's just a movie. That's just. It's what a what a pleasure that movie is. Every time you put it on. God. I mean, that's a great one to have it transformational. But yeah, the outrageous ones. My my last category is the nagging about face. And I have to and I've mentioned them both on this podcast before, but I hated John Carpenter's The thing the first time I saw it. I didn't I was I thought it was full of plot holes. There's some things about the movie that are still a little like odd to me continuity wise and just logic wise. That's okay. The movie Rocks, Man. I love that movie. So but, you know, I just I wasn't was not in the right frame of mind at all. And the fact that we talked about this, it funny you just brought up 1982 podcast because that's when I mentioned it and that it wasn't even nominated for best makeup at the Oscars, which is just so L.A. Well, but no, I really, really love that movie. Now, even if it does have a few, like, goofy things, I do really love that. But I did not like that the first time I saw it. And I think it was because everyone told me I would love it and I was like, I don't like this just being a little fucking. Now this next movie, cause COVID was tough, wasn't it? And all of us wanted to get back to the movies. That's what everyone was waiting for. Why can't we go back to the movies? You know? So I was waiting for its main thing. Like I got to get back to the theater. Christopher Fucking Nolan has a new movie coming out. my God, I cannot wait. And I hated Tenet. I texted you immediately after, and I was like, That's a D-minus movie. That movie doesn't make any sense. That movie's a piece of shit. I hate it Just because you're good at fooling me with computer imagery and all these visual effects. Yeah, all that. I don't care. I need to be able to understand your story. Tenet is truly one of the most profound about faces I've ever had in my life because I adore this movie. Now I've seen it upwards of 11 times, and that was one that it just wouldn't go away in my head. It nagged at me and I'm like, All right. I mean, it did have some cool scenes, so I saw it like three or four times in the theater because there was nothing else to see and then it just wouldn't go away. And then it came out on HBO and I, like watched it once or twice there, and then I bought the Blu ray. Now I have the Blu ray and love it. So that was one where I was actively rejecting it, just being like because I didn't understand it, because I didn't understand it, it made me not like it. And that's hey, that's fair enough. If you watch a movie and it confuses the shit out of you, you realize you hate it because that. Okay, I mean, is it fair that a movie needs 11 viewings for you to love it? I don't know. But I do love Tenet now. I do. But you liked it. Your first viewing, which honestly did surprise me. I did not think you were going to like it, but I'm glad you did. Yeah. And I still need to see it again because I mean, once I did have to surrender at one point and be like, okay, I have lost the thread of what is going on here, but I enjoyed too much of what was going on. Yeah, I was pretty invested in terms of the whole entire confusion element. I forgot. I remember there did come one point where I was like, All right, it's over now. Like, I don't know I don't know what this is. And then when we get to that final ends where it's the, the invert. Yeah. Battle, I'm like, okay, I got no idea that there's a red team, there's a blue team and all you need to know Yeah I'm telling you to If you watch that movie with the captions on which really is not what Nolan intended because he mix it very deliberately. But you just, you get a lot more story when you have the capture dogs. You're actually like I did. But yeah you're explaining it It's Yeah, but being in the theater be like not only can I not hear what these people are saying when I can hear it, I don't fucking understand what they're talking about. what a time. Love, Tenet, Love, Tenet. It's no off and I just put it that way. Well, all right, so we're done with our positives. Those are positive about faces. That was a lot of fun. You do. You did surprise me. You said you thought you're going to surprise me. It did surprise me. Congratulations. I appreciate it. Now we're going to now we're going to get me we're going to get nasty. We're going to talk about a few times when we have seen a movie and maybe overestimated it and it's sat in our head and been good. And then whatever reason, we revisited the film or films and they were not for us. And I could list a few here, quite a few. I'm not going to. I do have a few, but we're going to keep it, you know, somewhat contained to keep the negativity contained in a box. Would you like me to go first or would you like to go first here because you have one that has been the cause of much conversation on what are you watching? Our very first commentary was dedicated to it. So, you know, if you want to go first or I could, I don't think we've we have not talked about mine on the part. You and I have talked about it. It has not been talked about on the pod before. So I'm a little a little nervous. There's one on here that I'm a little nervous to bring it. I only have two. I only have two. I have to start with the mine. Okay, I'll spoil mine. One of mine is a movie and one of mine is a body of work. damn. my God. I have to take down. It's a tape now. All right, well, do you want to You say just one movie? It's a body of work. It's a legacy is God. I'm not trying to be be. But it's time. Do you want to do the one that people? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. The pod. No, Let's do it. Yes, that is. God, I can't believe it. I'm still upset. I'm still upset. Still upset. Make a that. I was unbelievably in love with. 2006, Martin Scorsese's The Departed, and now I don't think that that movie is very good at all And I kind it didn't make either of our Scorsese top tens because we both had you you're like evolution was it It's been so funny to me because my first viewing of this movie, I saw it with a friend and I walked out and he was like, man, it's one of the best movies I've ever seen. And I was kind of laughing and I went, It was entertaining some things. Some of the performances were like very up and over the top on purpose, like it was assembled very well, but there were aspects of that movie that were absurd. Like, right, He's like, Well, what do you mean? And I go, How? How would they not know that it was Leonardo DiCaprio? Like, you wouldn't know. The dude used to be a cop. Like the dude like it doesn't he does it, Nicolas. It's cruel. He has like, a few new guys like you Just investigate those fucking guys and you go, Maybe it's someone that used to be a police officer. And that was my argument. And people, I was just the asshole of my friend group for saying that stuff. So I just stop getting on that soapbox. So I always thought it was I never thought it was one of Marty's best movies. He does not think it's one of his either. Thelma Schoonmaker does Not think it is one of the best. She is the editor. She won her third Academy Award for editing, for editing it. They do not think it is his best work by far, so I've just always found the inherent kind of silliness in it. But you, yeah, you have a guy you don't like. I thought. I thought this thing was the Godfather. I thought this thing was air tight. I thought this was just. I farted. That's all I got for ten years. For over ten years. I just thought this movie was just the cat's pajamas. It was just the bee's knees. And then this. I'll just never forget during COVID. you know what? I'm going to watch it. It's been a long time. I'm going to put on The Departed and then like 10 minutes in just being like that. That can't be right. That's not what I know. And that is I just go. I go, Well, why is there there's a lot of holes there's a lot of that's the ship just started leaking and then Yeah. And I just I'll never forget the text I sent you. It was have way through it I go, Is The Departed a bad movie? Bad movie? I remember I started to die in life, but I have my ass off. That's the thing. Like you. Anyone listen to this. You are. You can absolutely say The Departed is my favorite Marty movie. It's my favorite movie to win Best picture. Fine. Go ahead and say that. But you will. You cannot say that that movie is airtight. That movie has gaping holes that make like there is anyone with just a modicum of intelligence if you're living within that world. I'm not talking about us as audience members. If you're Martin Sheen, who appears to be somewhat intelligent in the movie, he has no idea that it's Damon, like, are you fucking kidding me? It's just that movie requires us to believe that no one in the movie talks to each other. No. Communicates about, Hey, man. All right, let's come over here and just talk about this. The funniest thing is, like, Sheen is texting. You know, the whole like we're watching the by the by is a day and they're buying the microprocessors. The buyers are there and they're they're like, that's William Costigan, That's the new guy. So he names like a few people like these. And then we know because Martin Sheen's getting the text that his mole is there. So we know that his everyone in the room knows his molars is there, and there's only like four fucking dudes on Nicholson Screw who's there. So why not just investigate that? Obviously, it's one of them. It's so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. I don't I don't like I hate the movie because of it. I've always been able to see right through those holes. I was just always and remain completely fucking baffled that this is the only time he's won Best director. And this is the only Marty movie to have a best picture Oscar. I don't hate on it. I'm so glad the man has an Oscar. I don't know if I'll ever win another one, but a man he has won. But yeah, it is. It is a fucking far out movie that just like because of how it's cut and paste, it doesn't want you to catch the holes in all the stuff and how just idiotic some of the stuff is. That's all just idiotic, but I still think it's really fun. I do. I think it's a very entertaining movie. I was young and I was in love and I was I And God, it's so hard for me to talk about this movie. That was a good one. That was one that fans of the Pod will know. I'm very excited to hear your next one. My first one is it's something you and I have talked about. This is this is tough. I mean, you know, people whatever. Okay. Is this the body of work you're about to shoot on? No, no, no, no. I'm doing doing the movie. First movie because the body of work. God, now I gotta be rethinking this. Like this is going to be mean spirited. well, all right, so the movie this is the movie a lot of people like like. A lot of people like this movie. This movie I used to like a lot and would tell people that I like. Do I like this movie? No. No. okay. Okay. We were researching our Stanley Kubrick episode, and this is ages ago, this episode 35. And I you know, I wanted you to watch all the movies. He doesn't have a huge body of work, but then obviously, there's a lot of movies tangential to Kubrick that he didn't get to direct, some of which have been made, some of which haven't. And I wanted you to watch one of those, and this has only happened a few times, but there have been a few times in the history of this podcast where we have figured out in the middle of watching a film that we are actually watching the exact same kind of close together, like in the runtime. And it's it's only happened two or three times. And this is one instance because I put on Steven Spielberg's A.I. Artificial Intelligence and a movie that I loved in 2001 and still thought that I loved it and this is not a good movie like this movie is painfully dull, very slow, way too sentimental for my adult. Maybe that was okay when I was younger in 2001, and I was so shocked as to how little of the movie worked for me because I used to love it. Out of nowhere, I get a text from you. It was your first viewing and you're like, I don't like this movie. Like, I hate this movie. And I go, I'm on the same journey with and we're not even going to talk about this on the episode because we were going to give it like its own little bonus section. There are aspects of it. I like it. You know, it's basically three chapters. The second chapter with Jude Law is the one that I like the most. The chapter on Peter Pan stuff goes on and on and on. I would never give this movie and I probably wouldn't even give it a D, but I was I literally on my blog have given that movie an A-plus before. I've given it that grade in between, you know, 2001 and 2021. And then when I rewatch it for that Kubrick episode, I just I did not like it. Basically. It was just far too sentimental for me, and it was very, very bored by it. But I was surprised to hear that it being your first viewing, you did not like either, so you didn't even have a relationship. You need to have an evolution with it. It was just, I want it done. And I got to say, I have not revisited it, but this is a movie I own. I was watching my DVD of it because I own it. I bought it when it came out and I've watched it. It wasn't something that I watched once. Like this was just something that when I put it on for the Kubrick episode, it was as a refresher. I just to touch base with it and a completely a total opinion change on it that I, I cannot envision me watching that again. And I've heard people mention it on podcasts, I've even heard friends mention it and they're like, God, I love that movie and I've never said it, but I want to go. Have you watched it? Yeah, you watch it, but I don't want to do that. That's I don't do that. I'm not like I never, ever, ever, ever want people to reexamine a movie to have a more negative opinion of it. That's not what I want. I want you to go back and rewatch something to try to gain new appreciation for it. But you know, this is the negative about face section. So, yeah, very stunned that that movie does not work for me anymore. Interesting. Interesting that yeah, the young age. What happened, Alex? What happened to you? I just got to fucking cynical. I'm not Mr. Like men anymore. I'm, you know, I'm not like, yeah, it's all. It's all about love. And yeah, just, you know, I'm a cold, bitter man. That's what I, I don't know. Again, not a terrible movie. Cool vision, but just. Yeah. Wow. Was not working for me my when I revisited it. well, whatever. My next movie, a movie that I still like. This is like a weird about face because I still really enjoy watching this movie, but it is not the movie that I thought it was. Okay. Still to date, some of my favorite acting performances are in this movie. wow. Well, I just realized the last time I watched it, I was like, this movie just isn't what I thought. my God, my God. I think you're going to talk about my body of work. my God. Really? my God. wait a minute. my God. I think. Can I guess. Are we going to. Yeah, you can guess. Are you about to say the fighter? I am about to say the fighter. My body of work is David. Okay. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. do that. So that's true. But we did not plan this. wow. What a what are you watching? Fuck you too, little Russell. my God. I like his. Why do you go? For the most part, I don't. I don't talk about it at all. And it starts with the fighter. My about face. Then it starts there. You go first, because you go first. You go first. This. This is got one of my all time favorite acting performances ever by Christian Bale. Yes. And it's still astounds me. It floors me, it moves me. The movie does like the movie does still work for me. But I when I first it, I thought of it as a certain kind of way. I thought it was just one of the best family drama, boxing, movies. That was just that was just how I felt about it. I would rewatch it and I'd be like, this would be so good. It's so good. And then, I don't know, I think I just rewatched it and I was it was a similar sort of feeling where I was like, This movie is very convenient in a lot of ways. Like it just sort of moves a certain way that the story doesn't really add up a lot of things. And then one of my favorite parts of it is all of the musical montages. But then I sort of was like, I think these montages are just sort of like piecing together a lot of the stinking thing. Yeah, and it's doing the same thing over and over, so I still enjoy it. It is just and then I wasn't really a fan of the boxing when, when, when it came down to it. Yeah. So it's an about face where it wasn't a complete like leveling. It was just sort of like, I thought this was a little bit better as a whole than I thought it was. But that is still the performances and some. Amy Adams My God, I still think she should have won the Oscar for this. But. Melissa Leo over and over. yeah, Yes, I would have voted for Amy Adams, over Melissa Leo I would have. Okay. And Mark Wahlberg, I love him in this. So like, it's really one of those movies where I think over time it just became this to me is acting movie as opposed to a as a whole. Homeboy David or Russell has made one complete and utter masterpiece. And that movie is called Three Kings and it was released in 1999. I would give it an A-plus. It is one of my favorite movies of the nineties of that year. That is the least David O. Russell film I think he's made. I don't see anything in that movie that lends itself to the early films in his career or the later part of his career. So I love that movie. So that's how I'm going to start. And then The Fighter happened, so I'm going to touch on all of his films, but The Fighter happens. I go and see it and like, you got to understand where I'm coming from. That the reason I started boxing, one of the reasons was Micky Ward the real guy. Yeah. So I became obsessed with him in the early 2000. His fights, his three fights with Arturo Gatti are three of the best fights I've ever seen. And I love the Micky Ward spirit. So I knew I knew about these guys. I knew, you know, I've seen the documentary that they're talking about a lot in the movie, the, you know, crack documentary. I'd seen all that, so I was a big fan. And I also know that just because you're a fan of someone doesn't necessarily set you up to enjoy a movie about them that much. And that's where I have to say that because, you know, this movie does not show the fights between Micky Ward and Arturo Gotti, which is such a a baffling omission to me. But whatever his creative choice, that's fine. He focuses on Micky Mickey's early fights, the early part of his career. A lot was made that, like Mark Wahlberg, like this was supposed to be a Darren Aronofsky film. And Aronofsky still is an executive producer on it. But after The Wrestler, he didn't want to do the Fighters and they switched David or Russell, Mark Wahlberg stayed in this fighting shape for like years and years, and you do all that and that's cool. And the boxing scenes in that movie are terrible. They're truly bad there. And if he got into fighting shape or if he proved that he actually could fight, why they would photograph him in such a shitty way. I have no idea. It just looks bad. Beyond that, the performances are good. I like them. So some of the things he includes for Christian Bale I don't understand when they're like Dicky, you're supposed to be across town in the camera like whip pans over, crashes into him and he goes, y like that. And I'm like, And the camera's just going here, here and there. There's a music montage. It's it's like, ha ha. So I don't I don't hate that movie, but I have called drastically with each viewing. Now I just kind of like, I don't even pay attention to it anymore. Silver Linings Playbook. I liked when it came out. I did. It was made my top ten of 2012. I watched that a few years ago with my father in law because he hadn't seen it. I put it on and had to leave. I couldn't finish it that I fucking hated that movie. It does have some good scenes. I love Shea Whigham. I'm going to love Shea Whigham and everything. So him as a brother, I love him. I love Shea Whigham, De Niro crying at the bone, you know, just need to spend more time together. KLEIN Great scene. Don't like that movie at all. American Hustle I saw in the theater. I think that movie is a giant piece of shit. I never like this. I said as much on the Amy podcast. I just don't like it. Joy Does anyone like talk about Joy? Is anyone seen it and you won't remember it? That's a shrug for me. Amsterdam was finally the first movie, I think, where critics and audiences were like, okay, because American Hustle got nominated for like ten, 11, 12, 13 Oscars or some crazy shit, didn't win any. And then by answering, they're like, Yeah, this guy like, what the hell is this guy doing? The quality of Amsterdam to me is exactly the quality of American Hustle. I don't see any differences in quality and I've seen American Hustle. So what else we have? We have I Heart Huckabees scene at once. Never had a desire to revisit it. Spanking the Monkey is first movie is it's really something that's that's a that's really something I cannot believe he was allowed to make that movie It's wow if you know you know that's that's just that's really really something flirting with disaster. That one's okay Sorry. Totally different style than the new stuff he's done. Like, whatever style he locked into with The Fighter through Amsterdam is not for me. And I used to like some of his movies. I will always, always love Three Kings. I will always love that movie. But I used to love like The Fighter beyond some of them. And now I just yeah, it's a very hard negative about face for me. I've been wondering what I was going to talk about this because we, you know, you are familiar with my David or Russell stuff, but I am. Yeah. I just don't whatever. I don't like him. That's it. I mean, what's so funny? I just. I don't know what to say. Yeah. Do you like any of those movies you told us about The Fighter? Do you like Silver Linings Playbook? I, I always did, but I haven't seen it in a very long time. See, this is the thing, too. Yeah, that was me. It had been ten years, and it was a fan of hers and I had not revisited it. And if we recorded this podcast like before I had done that rewatch, I would have been telling people that I liked it. I don't. I've just always the one thing with his movies that I've always liked, we were talking about like The Fighter on is I've always liked the acting. There's always like even in American Hustle, I really liked Bradley Cooper in that movie. Yeah, just felt so like over the top and like, up and up and I don't know, I, I get it. I get that people. People do like his work. I don't I honestly don't even know if I'm if you look at Academy Award nominations, I'm in the minority here because fighters Silver Lining Linings and American Hustle were beloved by the academy and they just weren't for me. They were. And there's people that still they talk about I mean, I don't really hear people talk about The fighter that much, but I know people still really talk about American Hustle. They really talk about American Hustle. They just people don't really like movie. And then silver linings, too. I have not seen Amsterdam, so I don't really and I never saw Joy. So I but I, I did gather at a certain point there was like a connective tissue that that doesn't really add up a lot. I always like Huckabees though, but it's been a while since I saw that too. Yeah, I just did it once. That was all. It just didn't once and didn't have any desire to go back to it. But that's all. That was it for the majority of our list, you know, negative, positive. But like a recent film, if you think there's one you've seen, let's say like 20, 22 now that you think you know, maybe you're a little lukewarm on now, but you think you could foresee you liking a lot in the future, I already kind of spoiled it, but the way back, like every time I watch that, it just gets better and better to me. So there there are some. But, you know, I love tracking that kind of staying power with films. BABYLON I should mention when you said you rewatch it and it became your favorite 2022. I bought the 4K immediately, put it on, and that thing just had a thrilling time. I love on 4K, so. God, it looks gorgeous. Jesus Christ, does it look gorgeous? So great. You can tell the it's it's a shame kind of, because there's not many special features on it. And all of this other movies have a lot, including a commentary. And you can kind of tell it's like, well, whatever. If this if this movie didn't make any money and it didn't get any Oscar love, like why should I put a lot of attention into the, you know, special features? But the render looks great, the 4K render looks great. But yeah, I would the fact that it is his only movie that doesn't have a commentary again on commentary is a bummer, but that's all right. What about you? Do you have any that you think you could like? Like more that you're kind of like? Yeah, because I think the first time I saw it, I wasn't a big fan of it. It got nominated for a lot of Oscars. That was last year. There was even one actor that was going in particularly, I think, have a good run it potentially winning it. And it's by like my favorite, like one of my favorite guys. Martin McDonagh so you talk about the Banshees of Inner Sharon. I was lukewarm on that movie, and I still am. Yeah, maybe if with a few more viewings I could potentially like it more. That's a great call because I'm yeah, I'm lukewarm on it to that. That's another expectation movie I want expectation. I wanted Bruce and I realized about 45 minutes in it's not what this is need to put your bullshit aside and value the movie for what it is and it's still. Yeah I didn't. That's another one where I went. I thought that movie was very, very nominated and I think he's made better movies. And I was like, This is the okay, this is the one you all love. This is interesting. I know people my dad loved That movie is one of his favorites. And then yeah, and then my friend Taylor, who, you know, that's like one of his least favorite movies he's ever seen, He turned it off, 30 minutes and hated on your head and was mad at me for even, like, kind of. I don't even know if I suggested was mad at you and talk about Weepy baby. I'm just kidding. But yeah, my dad loved it and still loved it. So it's just, you know, whatever. It's we see things, we like it. We don't I, I love bouncing these opinions off my dad because he typically likes a little bit more than I do. And it can be fun to like if my dad doesn't like something. boy. That's that's a that's a big one. So I love talking about parasite fucking people. I know. It's so funny. Know he hates so much. I've never met anyone who hate Parasite or really any movie as much as he does. my God. He hates it. So funny. So funny. Or like, one time I saw him and you were like, Nick, just bring up Parasite, and it's just, like, randomly for no reason. And he just, like, just like, Nick is dropping, like, movie. All right. What are you watching? All right, so I'm a huge fan of this movie. It's a brand new movie. It's a 2023 movie. It's it's going to be nominated for Oscars. It's on Netflix as we speak. And I'm talking about May-December. This is a great call. I'm glad we're talking about it. I did recommend it. So, you know, in that a few episodes ago. So I'm glad you watched it. Did you? Me and say that you loved it and this movie Rocks. I had no idea where it was going. And I think the biggest Oscar right now is that that kid is going to be giving all the big timers a run for supporting actor. He's going to be given his name is Charles Melton. I believe it's going to be given De Niro, Mark Ruffalo Gosling, Dallas Downey. All right. I think I think it's going to be those five. I think those are your five supporting actor potentially. He's going to be right up there. But yeah, What do you like about it? Like, I loved everything. Everything. This was a similar type of experience that I had with poor things where I loved every single second of the movie. Natalie are my Natalie. She's so fucking good. She's so good. Cook. My God. I. She has been my favorite actress since, I think the first thing I saw her and I was like, I really just. I just there's a humanity to her that she just brings to every performance that I just think is just so real. And, and, and I feel like as she's just gotten older, her work has just deepened more and more and more. And this is like this is an all timer for me, for her. I don't even know where I would put this, but it would be in the top three. She just absolutely kills it. And the whole movie, it's just how it handles its subject is so cool because you don't know how to feel ever. The whole movie. You don't know how to actually feel for yourself and you don't. You won't know until it's over. And even then you're still wondering how you feel about everything. It's it's wild to keep that going throughout the whole entire thing. I can't wait to watch it again. Definitely to watch it before I finalize my top ten of 2023. But I was really I did not have high expectations for it at all. And I've actually been telling a lot of people about the movie and they all they all assume it's going to be something. And I'm like, it is not that, believe you me, it ain't that Go watch it. And it yeah, it's flooring a lot of people. It's a really it is a really eerie tone for all. Yeah. It's hard. Yes. For Portman, for Julianne Moore, everyone. It's great. I love them all. Everyone. Everyone's good. Well, that's great. That's not one that you're going to have an about face on. It sounds like you're locked in. I'm doing something a little different. This is too. What are you watching in a row for me that are just, you know, slightly different because by I'm going to talk about a brand new movie, 2023 that I did not fully like, and I was actually kind of disappointed by. But I'm bringing it up because I want to know what other people think. But I did see Michael Mann's Ferrari and I just don't know, man. I don't I wanted to like it so much more. And you were talking to a michael Mann fan. I love Michael Mann. People say Miami Vice is too confusing. It is. People say Miami Vice sucks. It doesn't. You just got to go watch it ten more times and I'm that annoying guy. So, you know, like Maestro Ferrari PACs, there's a lot in the movie. It's a husband and wife in grief. It's a racing movie. It's a mistress with the son movie. It's a character study of a brilliant man. There's so much going on that it becomes too much. And also, like Maestro, I wondered if Michael Mann is a little too close to the subject because he packs so much into the movie that he, by virtue of doing that, you leave a lot out that that just novices to Ferrari like me were having a lot of trouble keeping up with. I'm like, What do you actually want me to be focusing on? Unlike Maestro Ferrari covers a very short, specific time period. So it's kind that capsule thing that we talk to that we talk about that was very unclear. I was not aware of that. It took me a while to kind of latch on to that. This is another thing that is not using title cards and sometimes I don't know if this is like an Oppenheimer effect that people are like, we're just not doing title cards anymore. It worked in Oppenheimer because, I mean, you know, it was a little confusing. You had to go back and see that. But just like giving us infrared does open with like a title card. But tell us a little bit about like where we are. I you know, there's a there's a final race sequence to me that was you know, it was so bafflingly executed for Michael Mann because he kept crosscutting into the race with just this like kind of mundane, boring B plot threads or strands. And I'm like, it's kind of an odd just keep me. So it was stuff like that. And then finally, not going to do any spoilers here. There are two car crashes in the film and the first one is unintentionally funny to the black people. My theater last and that is not the intention of the scene. And my jaw dropped and I went, that looked ridiculous. That that just didn't look okay. You know, moving on. Movie keeps going, moving on. And then there's a second crash scene that is truly one of the most horrifying things I've seen in a movie in the last ten years. People gasped and one woman yelled out, my God, like loud and people. It's disturbing. It's disturbing. And I was like, Holy fuck. So it's that there's that disparity going on here. We're like, some of it is just kind of the majority of this movie is people talking in rooms, which is, you know, not every Michael movie, a michael Mann movie does not need to succeed with men shooting guns at each other. My separate my second favorite Michael Mann movie is The Insider. There are no guns in that. There are no action scenes in that. It's literally just guys talking in rooms. He knows how to do that. I didn't I didn't know who I should care about in Ferrari. I didn't know what was more important to care about. Everyone's good. Adam Driver is great. Penelope Cruz is great. Shailene Woodley is great. There's a fun supporting cast. Some of the guys I didn't know were in it, so I don't necessarily want to spoil them, but just a bit of a spotty execution for me. So my final point is this This is a movie I'm going to give an active about face attempt to. I will never turn my back on a michael Mann movie. I'm going to go back to it because is it just is complicated and convoluted and he's not spelling everything out on purpose because it demands repeat viewings. I don't think so. I think it was just a little there just wasn't a lot for me to latch on to. The story was not as strong as The insider. It wasn't. So if you're going to do something where it's a lot of talking, you got to give me some sort of like a release from that. Like even Blackhat. I actually just rewatched the theatrical cut of Blackhat and that movie does not work. The director's cut of that movie is a an astounding experiment in what happens if you shift around scenes in the first hour of your movie, because that's really all it does. It just shifts around some stuff and. It's so much clearer. The director's cut I'm talking about Ferrari isn't unclear. It's not confusing. I was just kind of bored, which is not a word I would apply to. Michael Mann at all. I and you know, there's not a lot of racing. There isn't. In the final race, I wanted to see the race. I didn't want to keep cutting away to other stuff. And then that crash that I'm talking about, well, shocking. It kind of came out of nowhere. I was I wasn't really ready for it. But then, like the crash and the setup of the crash is fucking brilliantly executed. You're like, There's Michael Mann. There he is. That's a michael Mann scene. But you know, it just not a full endorsement for me. I'm sorry to be saying this because I love Michael Mann. I is. Will Michael Mann be in your top ten of 2023? Before I saw the movie, I'm like, we had and I don't think that's what I'm talking about now because I don't think it's going to make it, man. I don't. Wow I don't think I don't think so. But but not turned my back on it. I will see it as soon as it is available on whatever streaming platform. Like I'll rent it for YouTube 399, whatever. Not going to buy it. But yeah, I just so I really want to hear what other people think of it. I want to hear if, you know, I'm like kind of off the mark or if people loved it or if it's thrilling. And I don't know. I don't know. The crash scene is something to behold is one of it is a michael Mann set piece. I was I mean, my my my jaw was it was dropped and I went this intensity did not match up with the rest of the movie. It's just a really brilliant, great, impactful scene. But at the end of, you know, somewhat of a slog, I'm going to say that's it. So sorry. Sorry, folks. Sorry. Wild stuff. May-December is awesome. Yeah, I like the director's cut of Blackhat more than Ferrari. And I'm not saying that someone should see dead serious. Yeah, the director's cut of Blackhat, which very few people can see because you have to buy like the special, you know, 4K blackhat. But it's true. You know, as always, I want to know what everyone thinks about all the films. Everything I want to hear my movies you change your mind on. I want to hear about Ferrari. If you seen it Made December by Fat Maestro. We've had a good movie year. We've had a good movie year. I want to. I'm really excited to talk about our top ten coming up soon. But you know, anything left to say before we send the folks on their merry way, Happy listening and happy watching you, you asshole 168 episodes. It's Thanks for listening. Happy watching, happy listening. Which happy listening know because we got to thank everyone for listening to what they've just listened to. Well, thank you. Offering them. Yes. Well, thank you. And they were also offering them happiness and what they go watch, which probably wouldn't be Ferrari. It's not going to bring you joy. May December might bring you some joy, though, depending on how fucked up your sensibilities are. Let us know, of course, that w w underscore podcast. But as always, thank you for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog. Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas Dose Dotcom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What are you watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and letterboxd at W aiw underscore podcast. We didn't do this on purpose, but next time we are dedicating an entire episode to one of the best movies of the 2000 Tony Gilroy's Michael Clayton. Stay tuned.