Rounding out their Cassavetes binge, Alex and Nick do a deep dive into Elaine May's masterwork, "Mikey and Nicky," starring John Cassavetes and Peter Falk. The guys talk about Elaine May's iconic career, improvisation, fragile friendships, Sanford Meisner as an actor, Ned Beatty as an all-timer, and much more. Tell us what you think of "Mikey and Nicky" on Twitter @WAYW_Podcast!
Watch Alex's work at http://alexwithrow.com/
Watch Nick's work at https://www.nicholasdostal.com/
Tell us what you're watching at whatareyouwatchingpodcast@gmail.com
Rounding out their Cassavetes binge, Alex and Nick do a deep dive into Elaine May's masterwork, "Mikey and Nicky," starring John Cassavetes and Peter Falk. The guys talk about Elaine May's iconic career, improvisation, fragile friendships, Sanford Meisner as an actor, Ned Beatty as an all-timer, and much more. Tell us what you think of "Mikey and Nicky" on Twitter @WAYW_Podcast!
Watch Alex's work at http://alexwithrow.com/
Watch Nick's work at https://www.nicholasdostal.com/
Tell us what you're watching at whatareyouwatchingpodcast@gmail.com
Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withrow, and I'm joined, as always, by my best friend, Nick Total. How you doing there, rock? Excited to be here. Tim Right. Last episode, we did a deep, deep dove into the career of our favorite filmmaker, John Cassavetes, and we spent a lot of time talking about the movies Cassavetes made as a director and during that time, he would often take acting roles in, quote, unquote, lesser films to help fund the films he directed, especially later in his career. The great exception to this is the 1976 hidden gem, Mickey and Mickey, directed by the great Elaine May on our Cassavetes podcast. I said that Mickey Nicky was the best Cassavetes film Cassavetes didn't make. And I mean, that is the highest of compliments. It's real hilarious, wonderfully flawed. It's a great movie that was recently given new life, thanks to the Criterion Collection, who released a remarkable Blu ray of the film late last year. This is a movie I found because of you, actually, and I love it for that reason. I hadn't heard much about it at all. And then you watched it on Criterion and you were like, Dude, Mickey, Nicky, it's it. Watch it next. And I did. And I fell in love with it. And I actually sent you a video of when I was watching it for the first time because I was laughing so damn hard at one scene, which we'll get to. But I love Mike in Nicky. I love that we're talking about it. It doesn't get a lot of ink or airtime. Yeah, I just put this on because this is one of those nights where I didn't no idea what I was watching on Criterion. I was like, I'm going to put on Criterion. And I'm just going to land on the first thing that gives me something. And we had not even begun our Cassavetes research. So I was still unfamiliar with him. So I just put it on and I was just like, What am I watching here? This movie is a mess of brilliance. I couldn't really shake what I was seeing. Like, every scene just kept taking me for all these rides. And then come to find that a lot of people like that movie is pretty sung pretty well on Criterion. There's a lot of different film critics, a lot of different actors that like to talk about that movie. And I did not realize that this was really a movie for creatives. A lot of people get inspiration from this movie, and it's definitely getting praise on Criterion, and rightfully so. Absolutely. And it is one of those sneaky, hidden gems that influenced so many people. But a lot of people couldn't get their hands on it. And yeah, I mean, we could sing the praises of Criterion all day. They have saved so many films. This is honestly one of the best examples I've ever come across because they really did pluck it out of obscurity and did a great transfer. I mean, I own this Blu ray, and it is it's just great. And the film stock is so grainy and it really brings out all of that. And the sound is, is off for reasons we'll talk about in some. Yeah. In some areas, they had a lot of trouble with it. And the sound, the audio is just crisper on this Blu ray. You can kind of hear the the flaws a little more, but that's all part of the package. That's part of the ride. It's all part of the game. Mm hmm. Like Cassavetes films, Mickey and Nicky is not a movie concerned with plot. So I'll keep this brief. Nicky the paranoid perpetual fuck up, played perfectly by Cassavetes, is hiding out after stealing a little money from the Philly mob. And he calls on his dutiful friend Mikey, played with great comic Fire by Peter Falk to help him out. The two spend about 12 hours running through the city, escaping Nicky's paranoias and fears, arguing constantly. And what makes this movie great is not the mob aspect of the plot. That's just a propeller to keep things moving. What makes this movie memorable is the way it captures male friendship with such raw honesty. Cassavetes and Falk are remarkable in this, and the way may captures their friendship. It's. That's why you. Watch. Yeah, I think that's really what caught me with it, too, is I was watching two friends, the UPS and downs, the comedy, the drama, the hatred that they had for each other. But then the love. I mean, there's not one scene in this movie where that is not always up and down flipped. There's nothing's ever the same thing. They always end up finding either. This scene starts in a place in a place of compassion. It'll end in a place of conflict. Or if it starts in conflict, it might ending compassion and that's the roller coaster of Micky and Nicky. Because that's how fiery they are. That's there's a lifetime of friendship and frustrations and resentments and joy and love built into this relationship. And you feel all of it with every passing exchange. Yeah. But we've already kind of talked about one of the reasons why this movie is so legendary and why it was so hard to see. And that's because Mikey Nicky had one of the most insane productions in postproduction that I've heard of. And I want to kind of go over it a little bit because it'll, it'll color in a little context for everything else. We're going to talk about May. Falk and Cassavetes knew they were going to capture much of the film through extensive Improvization, and this led to May shooting 1.4 million feet of film for this movie. Now, let's put that into context. When movies used to be projected on film in the theater. Right. The final length of your average two hour movie was 11,000 Feet. Now, of course, you're going to shoot more than 11,000 feet. You have multiple takes at the same shot. You have scenes that end up on the cutting room floor, but 1.5 million feet of film for a movie that is 106 minutes long is unheard of. That's nearly three times as much film as was shot for Gone with the Wind. And that's about as much film as Coppola shot for Apocalypse Now. I was going to ask if of Apocalypse Now was in that conversation. Yeah, but that has, you know, that production lasted what, a year? Plus, it went through monsoons. I mean, the lead had a heart attack. The lead gets fired. Martin Sheen has a heart attack. French Ford Coppola almost dies. So that as much film was shot for that movie is what made it for Bucky Dickey. And when you shoot that much footage, you obviously risk drowning yourself in the editing room. And that's kind of what happened here. This movie was shot in 1973 but wasn't released until the very end of 1976. And during those three years of editing the movie, May encountered a lot of problems. Footage went missing, some of which she was hiding from the studio. So that they would allow her to finish the movie. Yeah. The audio of some of the footage does not sync up. Right. As we mentioned, the budget goes from 1.8 million to 4.2 million. This is unheard of in 1970 cinema. Paramount takes the film away from it's finally released and May doesn't direct for another decade. So complicated history for Mickey and Mickey. It's just incredible that it's done. Yeah. I can't imagine what it was like to work with film. I mean, we're so fortunate to be in a time where film now is pretty much used as a device for a certain look. It's not the standard way of doing things we have really moved from film to digital. Digital is the accepted medium and film now, which does look better, like it will always look better Absolutely. In my opinion it will. I just think that that's incredible that Elaine may shot that much and then drowning in it. You're right, man. I mean, I what do you do? Like, how do you handle that much? Just straight up material, like matter, physical matter. Exactly. Because if I'm shooting that much digital footage, I'm putting all of that on servers, external hard drives, and that's going to take me probably years to edit all that digitally. Now, imagine having actual film that you have to like hang on clothes lines and like go through Stitch by Stitch. Where's that one scene? This is improv. That means it's changing constantly. Where's that thing where they went off on that JAG? Where's this where's this the fact that it did get made and released at a tight hundred and 6 minutes is it's really astounding. I mean, it it's one of the most incredible productions and post productions I've ever heard in Hollywood, genuinely. And I love its flaws. I think it's the flaws are what make this movie. I remember the first thing I notice well besides the sound being off, which to me is one of those things where if I see it off generally it bothers me generally bothers anyone. But if I'm already in a certain mood that the movie's given me, the sound being off doesn't actually take me out of it. It actually puts me in it more because we're in a mess. I remember there was also one scene where they're on the streets and you can clearly see under Peter Fox, tie the mic. And it's like all of these film mistakes that just are elementary and very, very amateurish in so many ways to me. Just actually make this story more real. Yeah, it's just like Cassavetes own films. Those are not polished, well honed, structured things. These are not David Fincher movies where every single shot or Stanley Kubrick where every single shot is immaculately set up. And it's very difficult to find like a continuity flaw in a Fincher movie. They're there, but you have to look. Yeah, Scorsese is kind of in the Cassavetes May camp where you just get the performance riff if the coffee cup is not in the same place. Who gives a shit? If you are paying attention to a coffee cup, then the movie doesn't have you. And that's, you know, that's that's OK. But if the movie has you, you don't give a shit about a coffee cup or being able to briefly see a live mike and go back and watch the Blu ray version of Godfather Part two. A lot of the audio of that movie does not match up, particularly the old stuff with De Niro. There's a lot of like really far shots away. It just happens. They didn't have the resources we had and they didn't have like months and months of ADR, you know, where they're standing in front of mikes and in front of a large screen. And again, if the movie is good enough, these things don't really matter. And let's be clear, it's not like all the audio is often Mikey, Nicky, there's there are just parts when, you know, little things don't really add up but doesn't really matter. And I think it's a really good lesson for filmmakers, young filmmakers. Yeah. To realize that it's not about what's perfect. If you're telling a certain type of story, I think you have freedom to know what needs to be perfect in it and what doesn't. Yeah. If you're making a David Fincher movie and David Fincher is of that type of style, then that stuff is going to matter. And that does become important because if that is off, it is going to take away. But if you are making something that is just gritty, it's dirty, it's not clean, it's all about raw. Raw emotion, then fuck it. Yeah. You got to let it go and let the piece of art that you're making be what it wants. To be. There is a thing that I heard about. I think this correlates to filmmaking as far as acting goes to is that no one wants to see a perfect actor, perfect actors, boring. We want to see the flaws. We want to see the cracks. I think that applies in filmmaking as well. If something because all of a sudden, if something is off in that way, maybe something's kind of off with these characters and it's all of a sudden enhancing more. Quote unquote, perfect acting performances. Often when Oscar's because of their flawless approach and there isn't, you know, anything wrong with them, they're perfectly presented. But those are far from real life. Oftentimes that isn't how people actually talk. And that's OK. That's the name of the game with movies. But there is another avenue that you can go down with your movie watching. That's all in which you explore, kind of unpack polished, gritty, raw stuff. And it does not have to be they don't have to be flaws that hurt the movie. They can be flaws that you embrace. And it's just it's one of the main things I love about making Niki. And we can't really continue this conversation without going into Elaine May because Elaine May is For My Money, one of the most influential entertainers of the last six years. Scrolling through her Wikipedia page takes like an hour because she's done so much real quick. Entertainment wise, she gets her start as a stand up comedian performing alongside Mike Nichols as the famed comedy duo Nichols and May. So, yeah, the director of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and Closer started as one half of an Improvizational comedy duo. And I love that Nichols and May stopped their act at the height of their popularity, but they stayed good friends. So already at this point in her early career, Elaine May has completely pioneered the use of Improvizational comedy and that would be enough to fill any legacy. But she's far from done. She becomes a playwright, a screenwriter, an actress, a director. She writes Heaven can wait for Warren Beatty, The Birdcage and Primary Colors. For Mike Nichols, she has uncredited writing parts on Reds, Tootsie. Dangerous Minds. That's awesome, right? Why not? She appears as an actress in many things, such as The Graduate California Suite and Small Time Crooks. She's won an Emmy, a Tony She's been nominated for Oscars. She received the fucking Medal of Arts from Obama in 2013, Elaine May. Huge, huge deal. But for our purposes, she also directed four feature films, A New Leaf in 1971, which she co-wrote and starred in The Heartbreak Kid in 1972, which was remade by the Farrelly brothers in 27 Mickey and Nicky in 1976 and Ishtar in 1987, starring Warren Beatty and Dustin Hoffman. And that movie is widely considered one of the most contentious productions in Hollywood history. It's too much to get into here, but obviously there is no end to this woman's talent. But it's true, Mikey. Nicky was a difficult production and she didn't direct another movie for 11 years. And the Ishtar experience was so hard on her that she hasn't directed a scripted feature film since. And that's a shame, because going off Mike and Nicky alone, this woman has a film voice that deserves to be explored more frequently. I love. Mike Nichols Steve Martin. Bill Murray. David Letterman, and especially Woody Allen have all cited her as inspirations. And how many people have been influenced by those people? Right. Cannot overstate her importance enough. And it's great that she directed this film. I mentioned this on the Cassavetes podcast, but this is one of the best movies I've ever seen about vulnerable male friendship. And I love that it is captured by a woman. It's so precise. And she attacks this material, too. She is after something like. This is a film where regardless of Cassavetes and Foulkes performances in the movie, which is the driving force, but this is a filmmaker's movie you can feel every step of the way that the filmmaker is after something. And it's you know, Cassavetes always used that word attack, like you have to attack you know, the people that challenge your art. You have to attack your art with vigor. And I think she must have been so curious because who seeks out to work with someone like Cassavetes? If you're trying to get Cassavetes, Cassavetes, not just, oh, I'm going to hire him as an actor, right. You you you want to go to Cassavetes land? That to me, especially at that time, because he was not commercially successful, there was no real appeal other then if you spoke to you as an artist. And so to come off of the movies that she came off of and to choose to dove into this masculine, toxic, masculine story with these two guys, she's got some. Balls. That's a really good point, because Cassavetes is he was never shy about the fact that he was not easy to work with. We talked about this a lot in the last episode, but even as an actor, he you know, he had a lot of trouble acting in other people's movies because his style was so fluid and you could just move. But for instance, him and Roman Polanski did not get on well on Rosemary's Baby for this reason. But if Elaine May, who's a really respected figure, is kind of tapping you to, hey, come on, join this party, and I don't want a lazy paycheck, Cassavetes. I want sweaty, unshaven, constantly smoking, drinking, screaming, laughing. Cassavetes. So bring it. I mean, he shows up, he's here for her. So is Falk. And I actually was going to roll into Cassavetes next, because when Mickey Nicky was released, Cassavetes had just directed a woman under the influence and the killing of a Chinese bookie. And he had just acted in Capone in two minute warning, which are kind of two of the roles we're talking about. They're not two of his best, but he was paid well, especially for two minute warning. So there another thing we talked about before is that of the performances that Cassavetes himself did not direct his performance in Micky, Nicky has to be his best. Yeah. His desperation is on another level here. You really believe every one of his infuriating bits of mania and paranoia and he and Falk are I mean, of course, they're just incredible together. And again, you know me, I love context. These guys first worked together just three years before Husbands was made in 1970 and they film Mikey and Nicky in 1973. And the fact that these two could build up such believable chemistry in that time is it's great. I believe that these guys love each other, hate each other and have known each other their whole lives. Their history is palpable like you can you totally believe it. And one of my favorite scenes in the whole entire movie is in the cemeteries scene where they're talking about what they remember from childhood. They give little crumbs that they were there for certain things and yeah, sure, it's exposition, but it doesn't feel like it at all. It feels like two people that are of the age that they're at talking about when they were kids. And I think that's, you know, because of what went into husbands, the way that they worked together, how they got to know each other, that's, you know, that doesn't leave you and that friendship that was there. I think that's it's a it's a fortunate advantage to working with the two of them. But that doesn't mean that they didn't have to do that same type of work for this, too. Right, exactly. And to touch on folk, because I would honestly say that Falk has the harder role here. He has to keep everything moving and on the level. And it's so classic when his frustrations get the better of him, like the scene I referenced before, when he goes to that diner to order the cream for John Cassavetes. It's one of the funniest movie scenes I've just ever seen, because they're doing this bit like he's trying to trying to help Cassavetes ulcer and he wants cream for it. The guy who works at the diner is not getting it, and Falk just loses it. Jumps over the counter. And you could tell that poor guy playing the waiter had no idea this is going to happen. He looks like terrified, but also like he's about to laugh. And it really throws you right into where Peter Falk, as Mikey would just wear his head, is that I rewound this scene like three times, sent a video of it to you, of me laughing, Oh, it's great. But then wow, where Mikey Nicky goes is something that's really unexpected. I mean, this movie is insane, and toward the end, it gives itself this rest. And let's Falk is out this perfectly unexpected monologue about their friendship, what Nicky means to him and the decision he reaches at the end of that monologue is kind of what the whole movie's about. And it's really palpable and it's really powerful because he makes a very conscious effort to not do something, you know, again, outside of Cassavetes work that he directed, I would say this is Foxx's finest hour, and I'm a fan. I love Peter Falk, but yeah, a really sneaky powerful performance here, especially at the end. It's violent comedy. I think this movie, it's always kind of going between those two things and the diner scenes. Perfect example of that. Because it is funny, but it's also fucking serious. Yeah. Like he has jumped in over the counters breaking shit and he is genuinely furious. And there's even there's a great extra in the back who again to the speaking to the mess of the movie, she's just she's like looking at the camera straight on into the camera, like, almost like are we supposed to be reacting to like, you can see it, but it actually works in the scene. Cassavetes is going off the wall and Bulk is just trying to contain it, but he's got his own rage and his own masculine tendencies. That he can't really grasp. And, you know, he's just constantly being torn between betrayal and loyalty. Yeah, it's loyalty versus betrayal, and you never know which way the other person is going to go and how much of that goodwill that is in you from childhood, from friendship, from helping you through hard times how long does that goodwill last? It has to exhaust itself at some point. Right? And that's kind of what Parker's battling with throughout this. Like, Yeah, I love this guy. Been through a lot together, but she's like, I have a life. I have a wife. I can just keep bailing this guy out all the damn time. Yeah, that's got to be such a horrendous feeling because, you know, the start of the movie is Cassavetes calling the one person because he's in trouble. And, you know, you get the sense immediately that this is not the first time and fall comes running, no questions asked. And you can feel that friendship. You can feel that this is this history of doing this. And I love throughout the rest of the movie where Cassavetes is like, I'm we're doing this now. We're doing this. And then he keeps changing his mind. And folks like, first you want to go to a movie, now you want to go see your mother, now you want to what do you want to do? Like, what do you want to do? I'm with you, but what the fuck do you want to do? And it's so frustrating. But then how he finds himself enamored with his friend. One of the things that I want to bring up is that the way that this is a great writing tool as well is especially with a movie that doesn't have any plot but props, the way that props are used in this movie forward, the character development the antacid pills for the ulcer, it's a simple thing of like, I just need you to take this pill. But watching Cassavetes in Sheer Terror all of this shit, and he's like, Just take it, just take it. And the classic The Coats swap. Oh, my God. In the scene in the movie, they're leaving the hotel. But Cassavetes is freaked out that there's going to be people on the other side of the door. And so he convinces Fall to switch jackets with him. Which is such a little kid thing to do. That's how I this I interpreted it would be like. Oh. Yeah, like, hey, switch jackets with me. I if you're going out there, like, I don't want them to think it's me. So give me your jacket and we'll switch. We'll do the switcheroo. Watching two grown men switched jackets in this doesn't do anything to forward story. This doesn't do any of that. But this tells you so much and it's such a thing that you can grab on to and relate in your own way. And same thing with the cream. The cream wouldn't happen unless folk needed to get cream for his friend's ulcer. And the watch. I have to bring up the watch because I think the watch is that one of the most pivotal points in the movie. And again, I'm you know, we are kind of jumping around this movie, which I don't think really matters because the movie jumps around so much. Yeah, it's. Fine. But Cassavetes throws Peter Fox watch across the street out of a a boyish frustration with his friend and breaks his watch. Yes. And just interrupt quickly, a boyish prank for his friend that turns out being kind of the game changer of the movie. It is. And it is not a boyish prank to Peter Falk. Yeah, it is not a joke. To Peter Falk. He is. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. And it's a symbol for it's not just the watch. This is everything. And I love the line where he says, you're a piece of nothing, which is so much worse than saying a piece of shit. It's a piece of nothing, man. It just really hits in a different way. But all of that stemmed from a simple act, a mean and childish, immature act, but just an act. I'm going to take your watch and throw it across the street cause I'm mad at you. This is the thing with writing that you can do is that you don't need to come up with interesting ideas sometimes. Sometimes they can be somewhat simpler. If you don't know what to do with your characters, have them just do something like that and then see what happens and see what comes out of it. And it's so much more interesting you. Can distill this all down to a watch and how it's funny to me that I take your watch from you and throw it. Ha ha. That's funny. And it's not funny to you, but I don't care because I still think it's funny and the fact that it is of complete in consequence to me that I just ruined your dead father's watch would be infuriating. And that's enough to get the wheels spinning in your mind of, hmm, maybe this guy is a good influence on me. Maybe I don't need to spend my entire adult life bailing him out and chasing him around. And these conclusions that the characters reach are not they're not spelled out for us. They're very, very subtle. And it's something you kind of you absolutely have to infer for yourself because they're not, you know, you, you kind of have to see and like, really, like in folks shoulders, just how he changes his whole demeanor around. I mean, he's really hurt. He's really hurt by this. And he doesn't he's like, dude, I get it. Like all the bullshitting. Fine. Like, Swatch meant something to me, man. This isn't like it's not it's not OK. And yes, there's a simplicity to that writing that I really adore and that I'm really taken with. And we have to switch gears a little bit because we haven't even mentioned our main man, Ned Beatty, as Kenny, one of the great all time inept hitmen in movies. I love this guy. This is a type of contract killer who's more concerned with parking fees than he is with a clean hit. And he's always a few steps behind. And Baity, he just plays it so perfectly the way. It's a really good way to casually inject humor into the movie, which can be really serious at times. And Bailey was just on his great seventies run here, Deliverance White Lightning, Nashville, All the President's Men. He's nominated for Network the same year that Micah and Mickey comes out. So Nick, best Ned Bailey performance. Bobby from Deliverance, Kenny from Mickey and Nicky, Rudy's dad from Rudy. This is the most beautiful sight these eyes have ever seen. Son. Spider Blake All right, let's go, Dad. Fucking white there to it. Yeah, I. Know the way I love that baby. Always love nobody. First roll deliverance. Hell of a first role. Oof! I did not know that. That's his first role, huh? Oh, yeah. Go on IMDB all the way to bottom deliverance. Damn. Well, I mean, I think that's probably for anyone who sees it, that's probably his most unforgettable role. I mean, you don't. Yeah. You don't forget something like that. No, but, yeah, I mean, I love him in this because he's just the most inconvenienced hit man you'll ever meet. Like the guy is just, you know, when he's driving Peter Falk around, finally they're meet and they're driving around trying to find Cassavetes and nobody is just talking about how he just took this job, because that was going to be the easier one. You know, it's like it's not even going to be much of a paycheck out of this because what am I doing doing this? This is just and it's just it's a certain type of reality that you don't see from a character that's a hit man. Yeah. You never see a hitman told in movies in any type of gangster type related genres where it's just this kind of really out-of-shape overweight guy who really just has no interest in doing this job tonight. So speaking of influence, how much does this remind you of James Gandolfini from killing them softly overweight kind of out of it. Hitman doesn't really get the job done there. Making Nicky Influence is just spread out throughout cinema because, yeah, we are so used to seeing tall, dark, emotionless hitman, dark clothing, got the silencer, boom, gun leaves, and then that's it. It's like, OK, clean kill, done and to hear this guy just bitching about parking fees or valet fees or the fact that his job isn't going to be a lot of money, it's it's hysterical and really quick we have to give a little shout out to the head honcho in this movie. The boss of it all, the guy playing the mob boss, is played by none other than Sanford Meisner. Who for hardcore movie and acting nerds, is the man who created the Meisner approach to acting. And I love seeing him appear in this like Lee Strasberg and Godfather Part two. These guys did not act often, but they completely revolutionized the art form of acting. Well, there's a lot of interesting things about the acting world in this movie that I did not actually realize until I was watching one of the special features on the Criterion Channel. On this movie where they talk about how so many different people who are acting or a part of this movie came from all the different areas of acting during that time. So Stella Adler, Lee Strasberg, and this is right around the time because so so Sanford Meisner was a part of the Strasberg School of acting, and then really started to disagree with the effective memory techniques that some of the Strasberg stuff was introducing. So he broke out and did his own thing, which is much more impulsive behavior driven. But you have this parable of acting royalty in this movie, and it's almost like it's the Mafia because it's this disorganized chaos that everyone is doing because this is what they do. So in a way, you could sort of tie this ridiculous gangster scenario to a parallel to the acting world during that time, and everyone kind of felt differently and everyone was kind of doing their thing. But ultimately, the gangsters in this movie don't get anything done in the same way that they ended up turning out where it's like, all right, people will take from different tools. That's at least how I approach it, is that I've learned from all of these things and I take what works for me and then what doesn't. And if it doesn't, I leave it a take. What does. Damn right. Exactly. Oh, to be a fly on the wall to see Cassavetes and Meisner is like going back and forth because we we told the story about how Cassavetes auditioned to get into the actor's studio for Lee Strasberg. He got in and it was basically like, Screw you guys. I'm doing my own thing. Sanford Meisner. It's like you see him in these brief roles, or Strasberg in Godfather Part two, as Hyman Roth in the way that Strasberg shirt is open, the way he's sitting in that chair. Meisner has that presence, too, where he's just there and he's got that amazing voice that has a history of life in it, and it's just so fun. If you're a hardcore movie nerd, it's so fun to see a legend like that pop up so let's get into some of our favorite scenes. It's a tough call. I love getting the cream scene because Cassavetes is just so freaked out in the hotel and he sends Falk back. I mean, it took him forever to let Falk in the room, and then he sends it back out for the cream. He gets this cream, then he comes back. It takes him forever to get back in the room and it takes forever to switch the jackets. It's it's just it's this insane bit that goes on for like a half hour. My favorite has to be the final monologue from Falk, just saying he knows what kind of man Nicky is, how he's been there in the past. And this isn't really a movie that I would say watching it for, you know, 102 minutes. I wouldn't really say that. It's a very, like, emotionally affecting movie. I don't really think it's going for that. But then that end really, really hits me because it ties everything together and it really speaks on the conflict, the complications of a lifelong friendship. And it's a breakup story in a weird way. Yeah. You're breaking up with a child long friendship that is so much more complicated. And I think that's what makes this movie so interesting to watch, is that it's so complicated because Cassavetes is operating on a life or death stakes and those peaks and valleys that he drives Force Fog to go along for that ride. And in that is where is where we find if you kind of equate to jazz, it's within those complications and those peaks and valleys that we find. What this movie is really about, and it's about this friendship. And I think the cemetery scene is probably my favorite scene that speaks to that because it's the one time where I think they find the most common ground they can find, even though they're disagreeing the entire time. Yeah, but Cassavetes is trying to get at something. He's trying to talk a little about existential thoughts about what happens when we die. Is there to see his mom and you know, it doesn't really know what to say to her at his grave and can't stop laughing. And Peter Falk is didn't even want to go, and he's trying to pray. They say, what's the line you know, when you think about like when we were kids, you know, only you. And I remember that. That's how we know that these things happened. I think that's a very interesting idea because it's like what we think about memory, what we think about this person. Clearly, they have different ideas about values in terms of how they feel about that. I just think that's a very interesting idea to throw out. And also kind of again, speaking to the violent comedy, I really love the bus scene and this is a perfect example of of conflict within a scene for no reason is that they stop the bus because Cassavetes has decided they're getting out. But the bus driver won't let them go out the front door. Not a big deal. Just go out the back. But Cassavetes is like, no, no, no, you're opening the door. And they. Get. Into this fight with the bus driver, ends up in a headlock, and it favors Peter Falk. He just goes. Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, stop. He's enormous. Mikey, Nicky, I'm so glad we did this. I'm so glad we gave little time to it. I really encourage people to go check it out. It is available on the Criterion Collection on the app right now, the stream, the Blu ray is also available. If you're a fan of any type of Cassavetes movie that he directed you're going to like this. I feel fairly confident saying that. But let's end it with what are you watching here? You're up first this week. What are you giving people to watch. I'm giving people some Tarkovsky here. Big hitter. Yeah, big hitter stalker, which is probably his most well-known movie. And I think it's also probably a good way if you've never seen a Tarkovsky movie, they're not easy. They definitely what's the best way to put it. Well, they test your patience for sure. Yeah. I mean, you have to be able to you have to know what you're getting yourself into and you have to know that you're sitting down for something that a lot of thought and intention has gone into it gone into making it a slow, meditative piece that's perfect. And if you go into stalker with that mentality and you give it the time and space that it's asking for, you're going to come out of that movie pretty shaken. And in a great creative way. Yeah, and a really good movie for all filmmakers, but especially emerging filmmakers to watch because that is probably the biggest small movie I've ever seen. There are like four characters in it, maybe five total, two of which barely speak, but it's really three people and they're sent on this really, really big kind of mission. But they're walking through fields, woods, abandoned factories, warehouses. So the scale of the movie is small, but the scope of it is massive. Great, great lesson to learn. I'm actually going to go completely random here because get this, guess what? I just watch for the very first time, The Exorcist, I saw that it was on HBO. Max and I scroll past it because I've seen The Exorcist, I don't know, 50 times. But then I realized I've only ever seen the director's cut of The Exorcist. Quote, The version you've never seen. I'd probably seen clips of the original Exorcist on TV as a kid or something. But the first time I saw this movie in full was when Friedkin rereleased it in theaters. In 2000, he released that director's cut, the version you've never seen when that version came out on DVD. That's what I bought and that's what I still own. So I had never seen the original. I liked it. It's hard because I already loved The Exorcist, and to see a version where some of the stuff you love actually isn't there. It's just it's a new experience and I like aspects of both. I feel like the original is missing some of the additional context of the director's cut, but I also feel like there's a few things in the director's cut that could be taken out to kind of tighten things up a bit. But either way, you don't need me to tell you the extras. This is a great movie, but I don't know, maybe there's someone else out there who has never seen. I could not believe that had it. It just never dawned on me that I never saw the original cut. I highly recommend going to check that out if you haven't seen it or have a little fun and compare the two. It's, you know, there's really good stuff in the director's cut. So that's it from us, folks. Go check out. Mike in Nike. However, you can maybe check out some Russian cinema, maybe go check out a version of a great classic that you haven't seen. Thanks as always for listening. And happy watching Hey, everyone, thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex Witherow dot com. Nicholas Stoessel dot com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. If you have any questions or comments, please email us at what are you watching? Podcast at gmail.com. And of course, you can find us on Twitter at WFYI w underscore podcast. Next time we're going to list our top ten films of 2020. It's been a really weird damn year and we're likely going to have some spirited choices on our lists. Stay tuned. Favorites. Peter. Folky Discos. Nick. Nick, Nick, Nick, stop. He's enormous. Froze on me. Was waiting for it to come out. You there? You froze. You should see this picture that you have. One sec. I'll call you back. So wait. Reconnecting. Is it me, Texas? That's not good. What happened? There, Big Hoss? You just froze on me for some reason. Pretty much. Once you froze, I was done with my point. And then I just started talking about you. Frozen. OK. Same here. It's a good, good time. To pause, because I have to think about the movie of. What are you watching? You dipshit, you're supposed to do this ahead of time. Yeah, I know, but it's spend. It spend. This is the one that's different. What did I just watch stalker? Or is that another one? Yeah. Fuck it. I'll make it stop. Can't make it, sucker. All right.