114: He Got Game (1998)

Alex and Nick break down their favorite Spike Lee joint, "He Got Game." The guys discuss the film’s all-timer setup, Aaron Copland’s powerful music, Denzel Washington’s best roles, Ray Allen as a debut actor, Milla Jovovich’s controversial role, great basketball scenes in film, the most awkward movie-going experience Alex ever had, the poetic finale, and so much more.
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Transcript

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Yeah, that's right. Just goes after all your listeners for many years. One love, Joe. Yeah, that's why he's got here. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Witt. Throw it up. Joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there, Dom Pegg Naughty? No. Nice. Yes, I like gold. Forget about it sober. Forget about it. well, that got the nod. okay. I feel. I feel I'm excited to be here with that one. That's one of my favorite. I mean, there's so many good side characters in this movie, but that I know it's got to be one of the tops. It was either that or big time will be big time. Yeah, but that I wanted to do by Dom Pegg, not impression. And I think I'm a little bit more in alignment with him. Yeah, a little bit. A little bit, yeah. You know, some Coney Island hood. God. He got game is today. You know, this is this is one of the movies that's been brought up the most just on individual episodes. I didn't even write them all down, but I've mentioned it on most memorable moviegoing experiences, which was episode five. I mentioned it, Movies That Make Me Cry. Episode 69, of course, talked about on Malcolm X because we're talking about Denzel. Of course we talked about it, but barely in our top ten movies of 1998, which is a recent episode. So after that, after that 1998 podcast, when I set the movie up and meant to talk about it and then just got so distracted by our shared love for Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line completely skirted over Spike Lee's He Got Game and I went, It's the Time is Now. We're doing a full episode on it. So we both just watched it. So we're doing it. And you know, of course since then I've watched it like three or four more times and this is He Got Game is one of my favorite movies ever made. It is my favorite Spike Lee movie. I'm not saying it's his best, I'm just saying it's the one that I get the most out of the one I've seen the most. It holds so much personal significance for me. I have a hilarious story about the first time I saw it. I also have very moving stories about times that I watched it on video. I have forgotten to do this on some of our deep dive episodes. It should be. I've tried to make this as obvious as possible when we dedicate an episode to one movie, we talk about the entire movie. Yeah. So we are going to spoil everything. We may spoil the end of one minute from now because we're talking or we may spoil the end. 2 hours from now, but it's free reign. And I mention that because like this movie is much more about relationships to me and like emotion that it is about plot and like spoiling. But yeah, I would still love if everyone saw this before listening to this. But of course it's so hard to find. It's never available anywhere. You have to rent it or buy do. Yeah, I mean, it's impossible to find. It's like it's crazy. And the only way that I get to watch it, the two times that I've watched it now are because you had sent me your personal old school 1998 DVD of this this. I mean, some Spike Lee movies are so easy to find. This is one that just boop fell by the wayside a little bit. That's another reason why, you know, I want to be strategic someone in some of our deep dives because they are kind of forgotten movies to me. I mean, a lot of people love this movie, don't get me wrong, But this is not talked about as much as, I don't know, do the right thing or Malcolm X probably not even talked about as much as black Klansman, which is always available to stream somewhere. But well, I mean, I mean, the first time that I watched this was because, you know, this is always really funny is there are certain movies that every time that you talk about them at least to me, it's not necessarily on the pod, but there's there's movies that when you and I are talking that you take a deep breath before you even utter its name. And so so this was always one of them. We were like, Have you ever seen a he got game and ever, you know, And he'd be like, Vietnam, son. Yeah, it's like that. And I would say like, All right, all right, all right. And I can see in your head you're like, If we're going to continue our friendship, then I'm going to need you to to see this one. And then throughout the entire time, like one day, you just like, mail me a bunch of, like, DVDs that you weren't going to have anymore. And you're like, Now I want you to notice very specifically at the very top of like, this pile of DVDs is one specific one called He Got Game. I need you to watch that. I got it. Yeah. And I think that was for, like, the Malcolm X part. I wanted you to see it. Yeah. Knowing all that. I was so happy when he finally checked it out and so happy that, like, you got it. You got all the things that I wanted you to get from it. Because it's not just this, you know, you can call it a sports movie, but it doesn't. It's not like a basketball movie. You can call it a father son movie. But Spike Lee likes to call it a parent child movie. He goes, Yeah, you know, I watched I watched his interview on Charlie Rose, which was right after this movie. It was when the movie was in theaters. And he's like, this movie could be about a ballerina and an overbearing mother. And immediately when he said that, I thought a black swan. And I was like, I just rewatched Black Swan. And I went, Yeah, there's like, it's that type of thing where it's not just about a man and his son, it's not about the fact that they're black. It to me, this movie supersedes all of that and it's just a human story. That's what I love most about it. That's exactly what I was going to say, almost, almost verbatim, was that it's I love that parent child. Yeah, I think that actually is it like I looked at it as a father son thing, but it's not. It is. It's a parent child story. But the universal elements of this movie are are what it is. You know, Spike Lee is I fucking love this guy. Cut. I love Spike Lee. And I've just been slowly got, you know, more and more, you know, through this pod, watching more and more of his stuff. And I'm enamored with him. I think he is just every movie I see is blowing me away more and more. And this was what got the ball rolling. Yeah, because I was always familiar. It's 25th hour. Then, you know, you had the black Klansman. I had never seen any of his other stuff I seen inside, man. Yeah, that's not this. No, that's not. That's no, that's like his. That's his popcorn movie. Yeah, that's his popcorn Dog Day. Afternoon. One of his favorite movies. He was never that's not like a prestige movie and that's an entertaining is all. Hell it is. Don't get me wrong. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I am very much a fan of this movie for all of that reasons and because it means so much to you on so many personal levels. But just as a film, this thing is it's fuckin great. It's just great. I've got. I love hearing that so much. And this movie, it's just this does not follow the conventions of like a sports movie where you're going going along, there's going to be one big final game, but it does have a final game. Yeah, but it's not the way that you think about it. I hear what you're saying when like you didn't know if the movie was going to be for you. I think there are a lot of people like that. But I also would venture a guess that even if those things sports movies aren't for you, you're really going to get something out of this. Like if you have a child or you're going to be like, my God, like what? Because this is all about, you know, you did not succeed in your life. The guy, the man, the father. You didn't make it. You twisted your knee, you did all this stuff. This this coach screwed you so you didn't get your big break. You didn't get your shot. Now you have a son. So come hell or high water. My son is getting that shot. I'm doing whatever I can. And, you know, I almost made it to the pros, but now my son's going to make it or whatever. Like, I'm putting my ambitions on to my child and being so strict and so demanding that they will become excellent. We've seen a lot of movies about that. So if you like that theme, that's what he got. Game is and it's just a masterclass in filmmaking. Let's just just say that like as just a as a well-made movie, like what this does and what it accomplishes is astounding. first, before we get into the movie, I'm going to set up Spike and Denzel a little bit. Denzel starts appearing in movies in 1981. Spike starts directing films in 1986. Denzel wins an Oscar for Glory. In 1989, he and Spike team up directly after that for their first movie, Mo Better Blues, which is a great jazz movie from 1990, one of the best movies ever made about a tortured artist. It's just pure Spike Lee. And two years later, we've talked about it very prominently on this podcast. Episode 96 was on Spike Lee's Malcolm X, and, you know, that's just one of the all timers. And then they part for six years and they return with he got Game. He got Game with Spike Lee's first original screenplay since Jungle Fever in 1991. He had done stuff based on other material. So he's coming back and you know, you because I think of the part and some episodes we've done, you have had sort of a Spike Lee discovery discovering she's got to have it. He got game. These are movies that we've brought up a lot. We have talked about like Spike Lee a lot without doing a proper breakdown, like we dedicated a lot of air time to his movies and he got game comes along and this lives in the world of I said that deep breath thing Yeah yeah I see telling him in telling you I didn't even know I did it. It's you know you can have a great 1994 double feature with William Friedkin's Blue Chips, which is about Nick Nolte. He's a college basketball coach. And some of the players, some of the emerging talent that they're trying to recruit, you know, they want like cars, they want cash. They want their mom to have a house. They want these things. And also, 1994, there's one widely considered one of the best documentaries ever made. It was Roger Ebert's favorite movie of the 1990s decade. That is Steve James's documentary, Hoop Dreams, which is a miraculous documentary that takes place over like four and a half, five years in which they followed two Chicago kids who were basketball prospects throughout their entire high school life. And, you know, will they make it? Will they not? Spike Lee actually shows up in that movie. They go to like a basketball camp and he gives a speech and he basically says in this speech, like these corporations, these colleges, these teams, they don't give a fuck about you. They don't care about you at all. You are nothing to them. You're a number to sell jerseys, to sell water bottles, to sell this. They don't they don't care about you. And he got game is born in that that venom that passion he's giving he's been Spike Lee's a huge as Ned Beatty says fanatical basketball fan sitting courtside at Knicks games We know this about Spike Lee but he is pissed that NCAA for decades was just making millions upon millions off of these kids. And the kids weren't getting nothing. That's a lot of where he got came comes from. I also want to say that with Spike Lee's criticism, and I think partly because if he got game today, the NCAA created a policy permitting student athletes to make money off of their names, images and likenesses. So when he got game existed, like that wasn't a thing. Now it is I think that's a little bit responsible for he got game but that's where the movie the basketball politics of the movie that's where it lives. And those are two really good movies, blue chips and hoop dreams to go back and rewatch. All right. Well, start to get into You Got Game. This movie has one of the best elevator pitches of all time. It's like, great. A convicted felon has one week to convince his basketball prodigy son to go to the governor's alma mater. If this felon can do this, the governor will release the man from prison early Soledad. Dude, I'm so glad that we're starting with this because this was exactly the thing that I I just remember in the middle of this scene with Denzel and Ned Beatty. Ned Beatty, where because it's it's the very first scene of the movie. Pretty much, dude. It's like Dave, the long opening credits, which is which everyone shoot, which is slow motion. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, yeah, I mean, those are great. Or where it's getting set up to, like Aaron Copeland's going to be doing the music and we're like, okay, in these crazy credits, they're so nineties and it's really just telling us that like basketball is a way of life. Like in America, it's just a way of life. But then boom, we immediately go to this pitch, basically. And well, one thing I will say about the opening credits really quick is exactly what you're saying, is that how many different types of people play basketball, too? Like you? You see what actually basketball means to a wide variety of people, which really I think is a great way of opening up that this movie, yes, basketball is involved, but this is really a human story. And then and then how very few people actually, quote unquote, make it. But then to get launched right into exactly that synopsis that you just laid out, I mean, like you immediately understand the stakes. You immediately all of a sudden begin to imagine, well, this probably is going to be hard, Like it sets you up for a great plot. And what I love is that from where this movie then goes, it does not follow that type of that formulaic plot structure. It just gives you what yeah, that would be. And you could make another movie with that plot and follow the, you know, Joseph Campbell's hero's journey and all this and that. Sure, he'll still end up with a good movie more than likely. But I love that that's where this starts. But then where it goes, you couldn't ask for anything better watching this dude. You know, Ray Allen, this kid shooting hoops like in his neighborhood. And there were crosscutting with this older guy, Denzel, who's in Attica, and he's got these, like, cornrows. Yeah. And he's shooting hoops. And we're starting right here. Spike Lee's hinting at his ending. An ending that is an ending that has been very polarizing in terms of like being connected through basketball. But then, yeah, immediately it's you know, we're in Attica and I love the way he shoots like Denzel walking and the cameras is tracking right to left and we're shooting through the bars. He's led to the warden's office, played by that baddie who just, like, clearly showed up for, like a day of work. And he kills it. It's like it kills so good. And the way this is set up, it's like pleasantries. Take a seat. I heard you were shooting outside all this stuff. So the warden just sets up this thing where the governor of New York is this fanatical basketball fan. And because Jake Shuttlesworth, played by Denzel Washington, his son Jesus Shuttlesworth, played by Ray Allen, because his son happens to be the number one basketball prospect in the country, if Jake can convince his son to go to the governor's alma mater, big state, then the governor will let Jake out early. The problem is that Jesus fucking hates Jake's guts. Yes, because about six years earlier, a drunk and Jake accidentally killed Jesus, his mother right in front of Jesus. And he has been in prison ever since. So there's that on top of it. You got seven days, buddy. Jesus has seven days to declare his letter of intent. Sign his letter of intent. So if you can do this in seven days. Good. So it's like we have this plot motivator, but when we're watching this plot motivation, we have no idea that Jesus hates Jake. We don't know this stuff yet. We don't we don't even know why he's in prison. Exactly. I was just going to say that. And the way the scene is cut, we're getting like it's good for narrative exposition. The plot of the movie is literally being spelled out for us. Yes, but it also sets a great pace for the rest of the film. Like we're cross-cutting Jesus training when he's really young, where we're seeing Jake serve prison, we're seeing him get sick. It's this there's all this different stuff going on and we're like, All right, wait. Holy shit. We're just. We're cooking. We're cooking. It's like we're 11 minutes in. This movie has been firmly set up and off we go. Great. And and and it's the cross cuts of when they're he's getting sick to our crazy because we see some of these images and then we overhear dialog that makes them add up. Yeah. Like you're seeing Denzel who's like in his jail cell just completely wracked with stomach pain and then you're like, What? What the hell is this? But then you just like a couple of seconds later here in the dialog, Well, we can't trust your acting abilities, so we're going to need to make this really rude. We're going to basically we're going to have to poison you. We're poisoning your food so that you can sell it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then they cut to him, like scarfing down the cabbage. Yeah. Gosh. Shit. God. hey, you do your part. You deliver your son, Governor Parnell, do his part. God, Jack, what's to excuse? And temporary discomfort, but we can't trust in your abilities as an actor. There's little margin for error. So let's go. Doc, hurry up. When you take it, it. What's wrong with this inmate that I don't know. Food poisoning. Are you sure? I don't know. You just rolled him in. So? So the movie is. Is having fun in its exposition, but it's not. But we don't start having fun, and so we lay it all out. We're all. We'll let you free. If you can get this done in this amount of time, Then we start getting weird. And it's not crazy weird, but we are no longer being spoon fed. We were so not fed. Just a little bit right here. Deliver that plot. All right, Now we're going to go in some artistic directions. it's. Yeah, it's so good. And Barry Alexander Brown is Spike Lee's longtime editor. He edited Malcolm X. He was nominated for an Oscar for editing Black Klansman. He's yeah, his playfulness can really come out here. It's him who came up with the double hug thing, which we see in this movie a few times, not necessarily a double hug, but like you see an actor do an action and we cut and see it again. It's yeah, like, yeah, that's really genius. Yeah. The throat thing. Yeah, yeah. my God. So good. Ned Beatty, as the warden, puts two parole officers on to Jake to escort him through his week long furlough, as it were. One of them is played by Jim Brown. And it's just great, you know, that Marcus attacks any given Sunday. He was also at Spike Lee. She hate me, but I love the way he talks. If he's like, you know, watch your ass. Like he says, his relationship with me, like, I'll bet he's so good. But still, like if you're seeing the movie for the first time, you're like, number one, like, how good really is this Jesus guy? Number two, what the hell did this guy do to get increase like in Attica? Attica is a big deal. These are the question. So then, man my God. And then we immediately cut out of prison to just, you know, a few guys, like, walking on the street, walking toward a court and, you know, basketball movies off to a good start. When it's first basketball scene. It's one of the best basketball games ever put on film. It's like it's dudes walking into court and boom, boom. Aaron Copeland, Fanfare for the Common Man Hoedown starts blaring, and Jesus and his teammates play this pickup game at night. And it is like it. I mean, even talk about I'm getting chills like the way the motion they clearly cranked up the shutter speed and the frame rate so that they're able to slow go to slow motion in camera. So you see them go into slow motion in the way that Ray Allen moves and the way he's setting up alley oops. And like doing these trick jumpers, he makes it look so easy. And this is such a thrilling scene, just like all the back and forth, the trash talking, the music, you can tell they're really playing, which they were. None of this was rehearsed. Spike Lee to set cameras up. He's like, Yeah, it's five on five. Go play. Yeah, there's none of this is rehearsed and you can totally tell that. And then, I mean, the way Bulger like, addresses the camera at the end and we go, we see his newspaper clipping and then we boom, jump cut to that actual scene in Madison Square Garden. It's like, I just. I fucking love that. I love the way that one guy pretends to slice his own throat. He's like, you know, it's it's great. Here we go. The rail splitters. I mean, it's just a feast for your eyes, really, because of all that cutting to into, like, the Madison Square Garden stuff. Yeah. There's so much going on. I actually had to rewind it just to kind of, like, take it all in and just see that when you're getting to know the game. But you're getting that emotion from it like in it doesn't feel there was no choreography. Yeah, there was. There was. It's so it feels very raw, It feels very real. But then you've got that music, man, this music throughout this movie, I and this would be my little tangent on the music, this movie, this music should not work. It really shouldn't it? And yeah, we'll talk. We'll do music. Now let's talk about like because it's in the opening credits it's like it first you you feel at least for me, like I would feel like there's this like glory. There's this sort of like very, very like religious type of like, like the light has come down and this is what victory and glory feel like. And then you're met with these, like, horrific off key shrieks. John Henry. Great. That amazing track in the opening credits. Yeah. Duh. Yeah. And you're like stuff like, like is this and the movie throughout the music never gets lower. Like, I think most of the time that we're used to like dialog taking over the music and music in the background in this fucking movie. Not in spikes, No. Spike likes his music to be front and center. Front and center. The music in this is very different because then and now Spike's college friend Terence Blanchard almost always does music for its movies. Almost always does does the music for the 25th hour, which we talk. Yeah, not how much we like it. Malcolm X For whatever reason, he didn't do that. And he decided to go with recordings from Aaron Copeland, who's Spike Lee is a mess. His dad is a jazz musician, was a jazz musician. His dad actually did the music for his first few movies. And then but then going through and picking out very specific recorded classical songs from Aaron Copeland, it really shouldn't work. And boy, does it ever. And it just feels sacrilege to say, but it's like somehow. Aaron Copeland, mixed with Public Enemy, who did a bunch of original songs. Yeah, somehow turns out to be maybe more memorable than a Terence Blanchard score. And I love Terence Blanchard, but this is probably my favorite music. And that Spike Lee movie. I love this music. I love the way it's used in the Hoedown during this pickup game. Yeah, Fucking nuts. It's crazy. Like what? I have a question for you. Yeah. Back to basketball. Yeah. As someone who. So you've, like, never played basketball, never watched it, like, didn't watch stuff, I'm asking. No, no, no. I'm just thinking of the last times that I tried to play basketball. okay. So, no, but that's not my question. My point is, as someone who hasn't played, isn't familiar with it, can you tell when you're watching good basketball and movies or like, do you ever watch basketball scene? You're like, Well, this is boring versus, well, shit, this is awesome. Like, this is thrilling. Well, I've never found basketball to be a boring sport, even though I didn't grow up with it. Like growing up in Buffalo, you know, is really a hockey football thing. Sure. I always found it to be one of the better looking sports in terms of the way that like the human body flows. Yes. Like there's certain things that when you're watching certain players, it's like they're just gliding through air or like time stops in a way in basketball that it just doesn't do in any other like sport that I can think of. So to me, it becomes a little poetic in a lot of ways. So if that translates, that's good because everyone, you know, Spike Lee is a huge basketball fan and he no, he knew he couldn't be going and sitting courtside games and have messed the basketball up in this movie. So what he did is he did not cast actors. He cast actual basketball players. Yeah. Like the guy playing Jesus Shuttlesworth. Ray Allen wasn't actual basketball players. All the guys on that court were actual basketball players. And whether you don't know much about the sport like you or you know, I played when I was younger. I watch it when I was younger. I'm not I don't watch it now. But this is without question the best basketball they've ever seen in a movie, because you're not cutting away from it. You're actually seeing them actually play on the court. I'm really glad they went with that choice and I liked it. The basketball translates over because that that fluidity and that poetic motion you're talking about, you do not get like was an actor who just learned how to play basketball six weeks ago. You don't like what? That's why Ray Allen makes it look so smooth and like when he during this game like fakes in slow motion and fakes that quick like kind of a jumper and then tucks it back under the rim, you're like, my God, like so. And now I want to talk about Ray Allen a little bit because, yeah, let's get into it. A lot of people were up for Jesus Shuttlesworth. He knew he wanted to cast a rookie. Spike Lee wanted to cast an NBA rookie, Kobe Bryant he went to first. Yeah, Bryant did not was not having a good time on his actual game. So he needed the summer of 1997 when they shot. He got game. He needed to work on his game all summer. He had to like practice, practice, so he passes. Tracy McGrady Spike Lee said it was too reserved. Allen Iverson wasn't impressive enough acting wise. Kevin Garnett and Stephon Marbury. Stephon Marbury is the player directly referenced in the movie. I came in Kevin Garnett. You know who that is? No, Kevin Garnett is the guy in Uncut Gems. he's dealing with a lot. that's crazy. That's Kevin Garnett playing himself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were both considered Travis Bests, Walter McCarty and Rick Fox. They all auditioned and then were given smaller parts in the movie. But he lands on Ray Allen. Ray Allen played at UConn. He was drafted in the first round of the 1996 NBA draft. He was a rookie for the Milwaukee Bucks when Spike approached him during a Bucks Knicks game and offered him this part. He worked for an acting coach for two months before filming began, and he goes head to head with Denzel. And I think he's amazing in this movie. I always have. I've always said, I think this is one of the best performances by a non actor that I've ever seen and the whole movie a lot of it, the whole emotional weight of the movie rests on him or at least half of it. Let me say that these have the movie and I think he really pulls it off. You can tell that this dude didn't go to Juilliard, but I mean, obviously he's going to make the basketball, so obviously and he does. But I think he's really fucking good in this movie. And I've always thought that I love him in it. It's a very, very clear and I think it's the right call. I think it's probably the call that I would have made, too, is you want to get a basketball player. It's easier to teach a basketball player how to act as an actor, how to play basketball. True, he shoulders the emotional weight well enough to where I love the movie. I, I do see a lot of scenes where one specifically that comes to mind is because to me, he relies a lot on all the other great actors in the scene. It seems to me like Spike really loaded him up with every other great actor that he could. So that way the weaknesses and that and that's not even I'm not even knocking Ray Allen first time acting. Yeah. How good can you possibly be? I think this is a great, great example of someone who's never done it is put in a giant position to have to succeed, and I think he does. So let me just say that. So when you surround him with a bunch of other like top notch actors, it's going to work. The one scene that doesn't is when he's with his sister, he grabs her. Yeah, because he's kind of going to lead that and he'll and he's only seen that. I think he really has to lead acting wise in kind of falls short. But that's okay. It is absolutely beyond passable and and it works. It works in a way where it probably wouldn't if it was almost anyone else. Yeah, and I definitely hear you on that scene. That is a tough one to communicate because you Spike clearly felt it was important to show that flash of violence can take on Shuttlesworth men and he can grab his sister and then be like, fuck, he is any other. Most of the people in that situation would crumble in front of someone like Denzel, and he really stands up and says, All right, let's go home. I love after this pickup game, we get the the montage of the Lincoln Rail splitters. I just I love all of them so much as how we, you know, they go to, like, different films suck and then they're all like looking at the camera and addressing them. And I want to talk about these guys. John Wallace plays Lonnie. He was on in 1998. He played for the Toronto Raptors. Travis best plays, SIP Rogers SIP, sip. My name is Chip Rogers. I go to Abraham Lincoln High School. I played the two spot with a risk buddies and nobody's fucking with us. I love that. He played for the Indiana Pacers in 98. Walter McCarty as Mance. He played for the Celtics in 1998 and then coming in at a towering five foot seven inches is Booker Sykes, played by Hill Harper, who absolutely did not play for the NBA but did graduate from Brown and Harvard and has appeared in dozens of films and TV shows. Apparently, he was in 197 episodes of CSI New York. So not bad. Yeah, great residuals. And currently Bulger from He got game is running for U.S. Senate in Michigan. my God that's amazing. Great Wikipedia page wizard it. Well wish you well, but I love that CD. You know, the roll call and the bouncing slow motion is just that's what we're talking about. About like this expert filmmaking. Yeah. It's so good. Like in the way it's done. So then Jake arrives at his new home, this Coney Island flophouse. He's told his rules. I already talked about the Jim Brown Denzel chemistry together. He said, Sit your ass down. I love that. And that, you know, you get those great, like, Denzel isms where he's like, I understand it over said it like that. Yeah, yeah. Made up right on the spot. Like, that's just it's so Denzel and I, I love that. I also love you know you got to keep in mind, like, not only does Jake have all that shit to do, but, like, the dude's been locked up for six years, so, like, when they leave and he just does that opening and closing of his door. Yeah, I think I love that. Love that. It just goes. And I love that just little bit of appreciation of freedom I love. Yes. Especially when he's given rules to. It's like, All right, you're wearing this ankle monitor. Yeah. We're giving you a little bit of money. Just get this, this and this like a we're going to be watching you the whole time. Yeah, it it gives you the sense that, man, how cool is it to be free? But not. Not entirely. Yeah. Yeah, but you are going back. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then we get the first needle drop of Public Enemy's. He Got Game, which is an amazing title song. I love this song. It's really Jesus is running so good, you know, they're mixing in whatever the fuck it's called. Something happening here. The hell's name outside? That's. I don't know. Great. Great, great, great. I'll look it up. well, but no very good title song. Jesus is like running to the bus stop, and then we meet her. Yes. La la la la. Rosario Dawson as la la. This is her second ever movie. After playing Ruby in Kids, which I had not seen in 25 years. At least. I put that on just to prepare for this because I ain't seen it. my God. It was crazy. What the fuck? I can't believe that movie was made. I was sitting there like I wasn't since I was ten. Yeah. Watch this when I was ten years old. Holy shit. Anyway, kids. Wow, she's great as Lola in this movie. She just. I love her attitude. I love that she does seem to genuinely care about Jesus. She really does make us believe that. But she's also this soulful shit. She's so full of her hustle. She's so full of like, it's like, Do you care about him? Or is this dude just a meal ticket for you? And I kind of. I liked it. We know about her right away. We know that she's trying to fleece him for this quote unquote, friend of the family. Yeah, friend of the family. We just know that. And I like that about her. And I listened to the commentary. You know, they did a Blu ray release decades after the movie came out and Spike Lee and Ray Allen do a commentary and it's great. And they're like, this is unfortunately a very common character in these guys lives. And I just I thought, she's an also just keep in mind when you're watching the second movie performance, she's 17 years old and Ray Allen's only 21. She's 17. She's amazing. And and it's the brilliance of the performance, too, because you you, you ultimately end up knowing that that's what it is. But the entire time she is fooling you, She's for me. Yeah. Like, yeah. And it's sort of like maybe it's a little bit of both. Maybe it's a little bit of this and it's a kind of teeter totter between that and every senior in is so cool for her. I love it. I love it. And it's she's fun to you know, this is just our introduction, but it's so fun to watch as she goes. And we'll get to it eventually. But they're her final scene just when they're on that board. It's an argument, love. That's that's at this time watching it. That was my favorite scene of the whole movie. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Way to unpacked that then. Yeah. Really good argument for people that age. yeah. That's like they're mature adults, but we follow Jesus to school. He goes to Abraham Lincoln High School, which is indeed a real high school. Notable alumni. Marv Albert. Neil Diamond. shit. Louis Gossett Jr. Harvey Keitel. What? Stephon Marbury. Arthur Miller. Wow. It's cool. That's crazy. Yeah. And that's funny. That's crazy. Yeah. And here we get to meet his high school coach. I love this guy, Arthur J. Mazzarella. He's been for Spike. He's been in Clockers. Girl six Summer of Sam Bamboozled, but also in The Sopranos. Billions Bringing out the Dead, Copland. And, you know, like, as the movie's going on, meeting all these people, meeting his sister, meeting his dad, meeting his girlfriend, meeting his coach. And we're like, well, one of these people are going to be on the level, right? Like the coach is definitely got his back. Nope, we don't really realize that here, but nope, the coaches try to use him too. But I think the most memorable thing about this scene with that playful editing, again, when you know the coach, how have you decided? Have you decided where are you going? Where you going? And we get this. This will be the most important decision of your life. Montage We're seeing all those real coaches and all those real people to the camera. And I love that style of editing where they clearly got like eight guys to say the exact same thing. Like, do your name title and then say, This will be the most important decision of your life. And you give all that footage to buried Alexander Brown, and it's this chop, chop, chop, and it works so well and I love that. I love that scene. And those are all real coaches. I don't know. I figured you assume that. yeah. Hi, young man. I'm John Thompson from Georgetown University. Hello. I'm Dean Smith, the basketball coach, University of North Carolina. I'm John Chaney from Temple University. I'm Roy Williams from the University of Kansas. I'm Coach Nolan Richardson, The University of Arkansas. I'm Lute Olson, the head basketball coach at the University of Arizona. And this will be the most important decision in your life. This will be the most important decision in your life. yeah. And well, and that's what's great about the splicing of every time Spike Lee does that throughout the movie is that it's blending this story with real life and and real people and real teams and real like events that have happened. And and it just places everything in this element of surreal reality in a way, because you feel the stakes on Jesus, because you get one person telling him that's his coach. But this whole entire time, he's sort of like, I can't make up my mind. I've got I've got the world on me. And by having every one of these examples, just through the editing of these other coaches, you feel it even more. Yeah. And it supports his performance. Yeah, it absolutely does. And it's, you know, that's kind of a tease of where we're going when we lead up to this thrilling sports center package. I mean, just one movie. Yeah. It's like, man, it's crazy. Jake is officially out and he's waiting for his daughter, Zelda Harris playing Mary. I really like her in it. I love their embrace and how he has, like, that little cute name for that. she knows, you know, Hey, Boo Boo. And she's like, because she's probably used to being like, Yo Ma Shuttlesworth the way he does. I think he does it on purpose. Like she's used to having her name be called the Street because her brother is the number one basketball prospect. But the way she hears that and stops and just melts into his arms, it's like, it's beautiful. you like when he says that line like, I just like the air was taken out of me. Yeah. Because he's so still, like, waiting for her to turn around. And that embrace that they have just gives you a feeling. His world is here now. I love that. I love that. And I totally agree. And I think it's a really good way to set up that despite what he's done and he has one child who hates him, the younger child still has this great amount of compassion because she would have been too young. Yeah, she didn't witness it. You know, the the act itself. But then this is one of my favorite scenes. Ah, they're they're kind of chillin in the apartment and Jesus comes home. Yep. And here is a scene that's based really on command and stillness and having. Yes. Ray Allen I love how it just kind of like double cuts when he walks right in and they lock eyes. You know, this dude does not want to seem like, why would you let a stranger into our house? And that when Jake leaves and he just slowly goes around Jesus and Denzel and Ray Allen, like locking eyes, It's just that venom coming out of Ray Allen, like, get the fuck out of here. I don't want to see you at all. It's. God. I really. I've always been taken with that and definitely hear you on some acting from Ray Allen, but Like when he has to be still like that, he can still do it. yeah. Like, that's what I mean. Like every scene that he needs to communicate some kind of emotion or some kind of idea of how this character is. He does. And it might not have much range in there, but whatever that scene calls for, he hits that note. And that's why this movie works. He always hits exactly where he needs to hit. Yeah, just like when he goes to next to Uncle Bubba's house. Exactly. Yeah. Sally? Yeah. What a character. Yeah. Yeah. No, but yeah, he has. He's, like, confused, Kind of exacerbated. Exactly. Annoyed with Uncle Bubba and yeah, he's, he's living in that, like stewing in that seat. Really. Well, exactly. What a scene, uncle. Well, first of all, Michelle, she plays Aunt Sally. She was in Crooklyn, Spike Lee's Crooklyn and she's great. She and Sally may be maybe the only person in the film that wants nothing from Jesus like she. You know, she's supportive and like and she it's very important to keep in mind that she is actually the blood relative to Jesus. Yes. It's her sister who was murdered, Uncle Bubba is not blood related to Jesus at all. And he thinks he's entitled to just all this shit. I mean, he's played by Bill Nunn. He was in school days, of course, played Radio Raheem and Do the Right Thing, son. Mo, Better blues, great actor. I mean, it's like I mean, who would know that? Like Uncle Bubba is like this movie buff. I love that. He's like, man escape, just like Shawshank Escape from Alcatraz. And then out of nowhere, he just goes. Then you see Godfather to the bad was called the black head. Like, What do you think about it? Just that, you know, he pulls out, you rub some this right here for some of this right here. But yeah, Uncle Bubba, bringing some humor, some levity to the film, perhaps it's one of the most incredible scenes because, like, it's a scene that starts out one way and then goes so many different places based off of his performance, because at first you get the feeling that, here are the loving guardians. Yeah, and they are. But to point and because then when he starts seeing some pretty out of pocket stuff to his wife, you know, then you're like, okay, maybe you're not this fun loving guy that you kind of come off to be. And then when you get those, I fucking love those out of nowhere. Close ups, they're just shooting on his mouth and in his face. And then you get the real like, I'm looking for this. Don't you think you owe that to us? So now it's like, okay, you're not such a good guy. Or at least we understand that Jesus really doesn't have anybody, like, really have his best interest at heart. Great call to point out those like hyper close ups. When Spike will do this, someone's talking about something and it'll just zoom right into, like, his mouth. Yeah. And you just see his mouth talking and it's like, this is all bullshit. Like, this dude, just the student wants money, he wants a handout, he wants insurance that when Jesus gets a pay out, they're going to be taken care of. He wants all this stuff. And that's such a good way to, like, call out to the audience that this is all nonsense. And, you know, we're adopting Jesus as point of view there. And he's like, I hate it. Listen, that shit again. Yeah, yeah. This is what this guy's really after. But he went in there looking for support, like my. Yeah, the guy who murdered my mother is out. I have no idea. How can I get some family support? Yeah, and know you need to get a job. We did it. Sure. With Idris if you want. Like no bubble up and. Yeah, no matter what you like, he's still your daddy. Yeah, exactly. Still your daddy. And then, I mean, they've already come, you know, father and son have already come face to face, but Jesus was like, they call the courts. He practices on the garden not to be confused, you know, with like Madison Square, those courts right outside in Coney Island of the Garden. So now we got Denzel, you know, he's got his Jordans on, he's got his hair done. He's got that. He's got that old school method of shooting the really, really high release where he holds the ball up with two hands. But he's good. Like it's so old school. This is like banking it in. And I love that. And then, you know, Jesus and Boog come out and this is one of my favorite scenes because yeah, if you haven't seen the 92, we don't know. It hasn't been totally spelled out for us that Jake has murdered the mom. But yeah, he's like, met the aunt. We're like, okay, what's going on? The way that he dislikes Denzel studied him and he's like, Man, if. If your mother could see you. And I'm like, Jesus. It's like, what? And one of my favorite lines, man, that's the wrong way to start a conversation with me. I love that. I love that so much. Because Jake got drunk and did something terrible and was abusive towards his son and then pushed his wife and killed her. But he can also miss his wife terribly. Both things can be true. He did a very terrible thing, but he can also miss her every day of his life. And both things are true here. And Jesus, it's his decision to not want to put up with it or not like that. But we're seeing like this breakdown of like, I really need you to kind of listen to me. And they kind of get into it in this scene, too, which is great. They get in their first little verbal squabble like, You don't make mistakes. You be out here shooting, be don't miss no shots, ever. I love this scene. I love it, too. And I also love it from, you know, Denzel's like perspective, too, like, okay, this is the first time that I'm going to have a one on one. You know, I don't have much time. I have to I have a mission. How am I going to do it? And he doesn't even go into it. Like he actually takes a very, very thoughtful he puts his relationship with his son first. He knows that he needs to try to get something from him. But I think it's a matter of, well, this isn't going to be the way to start it. But I only even if it was I don't know if this is how I'd want to do it. I'm going to try just to connect with him again. I love that there's a bit of like that thoughtfulness and tenderness. It's coming from him that's just like, you know, let's talk this out as best we possibly can. from Denzel yesterday until until just like a dad, like the son is cursing too much and he's like, they're probably in there cursing the motherfucker out. And you see, Denzel is Jake, like, get a little twitchy, so. Well, first of all, like, why you got to use all this language? Yeah, it's so father and son. Like, it's just perfect. Yeah, yeah, it's really good. And to get to those that line you said, like, that's the wrong way to talk me. That's a very, very honest and telling response. So, like, the way that they talk about these things, it's so truthful and it cuts right to it, to like you get everything you need to know. and again, the music shouldn't work. Yeah, it shouldn't. And it's just going the whole time. And this is when it all, you know, leave the Spike Lee. He just comes out and says it like, has God forgive me for killing my mother. Yeah. okay. He okay, here we are. And the yin and yang of that. I pray that he has I pray that he has. And just in taking the frustration out, like bouncing the ball really aggressively. Yeah, it's a great set up of like, shit, I with the clock ticking does it doesn't mean it's going to make Jesus want to talk to you anymore. Yeah. He still wants nothing to do with you. And we're seeing that that breakdown down understanding start. So next we get this a great sports center package, which is just an amazing sequence. And you can really tell that Spike cashed in a bunch of favors to get this montage. She brings so many people into the fold. It's a it's really a perfect encapsulation of the NBA circa 1998. Fucking everyone. I'm Robin Roberts. Welcome to Sports Center. Tonight, our feature is about a biblical player, the Chosen One, the Second Coming, the Resurrection, the Salvation. ESPN gets Religion as we Follow A Day in the Life of Abraham Lincoln. Senior Jesus Shuttlesworth, the number one basketball prospect in the country. Jesus Shuttlesworth. He's the next Peter. He's awesome, baby. When it comes to life, the guy's unbelievable. He's a great guy. He's the Three Horsemen. Super, super. Lenny Sensational. He's a high riser. His game. This is not all of them. But cameos include Robin Roberts, Shaquille O'Neal, Dick Vitale, George Karl, Reggie Miller, Rick Pitino, Bill Walton, Scottie Pippen. Charles Barkley. An ending beautifully yet with Michael Jordan looking directly into the camera and giving what may be it's like it's an all timer title line delivery like it's just it's it is so perfect. The only time it said the movie Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. Hallelujah, Hallelujah. He got game. my God. But like a really great scene to not only because it's so, well, like, assembled and put together, but we see them like Jake and Jesus are watching it in the same way. Their nose, the same way. Yeah. They're both like, get emotional when the mom is brought up, like they're mimicking how to shoot, like jump shots. I love this little package. It's like, it's like 3 minutes long, but it's so cool. It's perfect. It's honestly is and it feels like it's Spike Lee having fun. Yeah. Which is so important. Like to feel that that's what's so great about Spike Lee movies is that you feel him in it and that's that's, that's, that's what you want as a filmmaker. Yeah. All right. Now we're going to take a little a little pause talking about basketball, talking about fathers, sons, children, total murder. But when Jake moved into his flophouse, he became neighbors with a prostitute named Dakota and her vicious pimp. Sweetness. Talk about sweetness real quick. Thomas Jefferson Bird as sweetness. He was in Clockers. Girl six Get on the bus. Bamboozled Red Hook Summer The Sweet Blood of Jesus Schirach All Spike Lee movies. This is a Tony nominated actor. So sweet. This is not like this only guy's mode. This is a really, really good actor. But Dakota is played by Molly Djokovic. And this brings us to an extremely prescient talking point of he got game, which is that is the Dakota plotline necessary? This is something that even critics in 1998 who really like the movie, were calling out in their reviews. And this is still something to this day that people, when they see the movie for the first time or if they're watching it for the first time in years, a lot of people will mention it. They don't think this plot line fits, just the whole plot line. So we're going to go down this road a little bit now. I'll talk about why it is included Spike Lee's justification in a moment. We'll talk about that. But I have never had a problem with it, and I didn't really even notice this criticism back in the day. It's something that knowing we were going to do this part, I was researching it a lot and I was like, a lot of people talk about this. A lot of people have issues with this. So I'm going to do a for and against and then I want your opinion. Here's my only against because I'm for it, because it just it's never bothered me. My only against and the way that I understand what these people are talking about is that I actually timed with my phone how long that storyline occurs and how long she's on screen. He got game is 2 hours and 16 minutes long. She is on screen for exactly 16 minutes. So it genuinely feels like a 16 minute long hangover than what 1998 audiences were used to, which is a two hour film. I'm saying if you cut out that whole plot point, you don't really lose anything where nothing new is explained to us. He doesn't meet that he killed his wife, but that's given to us elsewhere. We don't really learn any new thing. This is all simply character. So my main four. So the sequence is that go look at Denzel Washington's career. The man is not emotionally vulnerable with women. Often he's not. I didn't really realize, especially not later in his career. He's really not. I'm not mean. I don't I'm not talking about sexuality. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about an emotional openness, an emotional vulnerability, a humility to him that he has with me all. Djokovic cheer that I like. Does it slow the movie down? I don't know. Is it different from the rest of the movie? Yes. That is going to go in to Spike Lee's justification for it. But that's my kind of for and against it. Just we got to talk about Dakota when we're talking about he I came, but you and I never talked about this I have zero against I think this is one of my favorite parts of the goddamn fucking movie and and I didn't know this was a thing until you brought up in a phone call we had yesterday. And I and it upset me throughout the whole entire rest of the day because I was just sort of like, No, this is an essential part of this movie, because without it, we're missing a very, very key part of Denzel's character. Yeah, I think a lot of it speaks to being a man in a certain kind away. Are you talking like carnality, like sexually? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's going to go into Spike Lee's justification. That's fair and it's fair. Yeah. No, I think that's a huge part of it. And I think it's also a part of like the, the bit of freedom that this one person has. Is that what is he actually doing with his time that? His son doesn't need to be a part of. I don't know. There's something about this idea of this is what's going on in his life. On top of everything that I find very fascinating, very interesting. I love the editing of these scenes because the color scheme is way different than anything else in the movie. I totally agree. And that was way intentional. Yeah, very different. The splicing is different. And then like there's crazy shit that happens where like there's one just one giant take. Yeah. Where it's just Mila talking and it's one of the in the camera stationary. But it's during a whole entire sequence where there's a lot of splicing. He's sitting over here, but now he's standing over here and they're talking. She's in the mirror. But then there's this in the middle of that one long take of her. Just, you know, looking for her wig. It's got one of my favorite lines, too, where she's like, she goes, what are you, like, religious or something? And he goes, yeah, most definitely. Most definitely. Like, like, but like, more like more spiritual, you know? I love that. I love that because he's relating and we don't get to see him ever get to do that with anybody else. I think without this whole entire thing, the movie, I'm not going to say it doesn't work because I think there yes, there is an argument that when you remove any type of necessary elements to a movie, the movie will still work. But I'm just somebody that just feels that like when you can add a whole entire dimension into someone's character, that that furthers the movie even more than do that. That's essentially Spike Lee's argument that without the movie being 4 hours long. But if well, there's three things. This number one, this movie was cut down some fashion. It had to be because there's a very famous actress who shows up for like 3 seconds as Booker's teacher. That's Jennifer Esposito, like in the very, very end. So for her to just be there for like 3 seconds, she had to have I don't know, there must have been a scene or something. So that's one. Number two, Spike Lee says to Charlie Rose that a movie is allowed to have tangents He likes when movies have tangents that don't necessarily have to do with the plot. And we're kind of going over here and hanging out for a little bit. This is obviously something that Tarantino is no stranger to doing. Now. Part three and perhaps the most, you know, pragmatic part that Spike Lee just admits, and I'm not trying to be crude, but he goes, the dude's been locked up for six and a half years. When he gets out, he wants to be with a woman. Yeah, if that's not the first thing he's thinking of, it's on the top of his mind. And yeah, to your point, like, he's not hanging out with Jesus at 10:00 at night. He's not convincing him. He's really seeing Jesus for, like, fucking, like 20 minutes a day if he's lucky that. So what's he doing with the rest of the time? He's, Yeah. Meeting the company of this woman. And in this first scene with her, we really get two long sequences with her. And this first scene, it is just talking and it's like, Yeah, he's, she's just gotten beaten up by sweetness. I like that. He makes it Gone with the Wind reference Sweetness, also a movie fan, Vertigo references Gone with the Wind. But what a guy. Sweetness. Yeah. Yeah, I will. I'll be the first to admit that it is a tangent. I'll be the first to admit that the movie does slow down here. But when I hear the director say that that was his intention, and what we feel in these scenes was the feeling and I want to slow it down a little bit, I wanted to be a little more vulnerable. I kind of do shrug and I go, okay, it's it's it's never, never ruined the movie for me. If anything, I thought it was just a little funny how people have always harped on it. Yeah, I've never had a problem with them. And I think if you watch the movie, that's the only thing you hold on to open your mind a little bit, man, I, I it's just not that big of a deal. She has a line in there that I really love. It's at least I still got my teeth. Yeah, true. The circumstances are great. She just got beat up. But, you know, she's like, that's just a reality. It just clues you and you're like, Damn, that's not something anyone says in a normal day. But given the circumstances, it's like, Well, Lisa still got my teeth. I don't know, man. I love everything about whole entire thing. And I never knew that that was a point of contention for the movie. And people, you know, it makes me think it's just because of the sexuality like. They don't want to deal with that type of like because it is it is very male, primal thing, especially like the one scene when he's bouncing the ball because he doesn't want to hear him having sex. So you can feel all that like male, like the frustration and all that. Well, that's what that's what takes us into the murder, which is interesting. He's slamming the ball on that. Slamming the ball takes us into the flat murder. So it's just like aggression. Yeah. Yeah, I think yeah, I think it works. And I love seeing Denzel be vulnerable. Like what? The woman. And I'm not talking sexual. I'm just talking, like, just opening himself up in that way. It's. Yeah, I like the scenes and they are shot differently. You have that hot red neon coming in which I love. This is episode 114. What are you watching? He got famous, I guess, all the way back in episode. I know. All the way back in episode five, we talked about our most memorable moviegoing experiences. Now, I was 12 years old the first time I saw he got Game. So the weekend it came out and my friend's dad took us to go see it one Saturday morning. Now my friend and his family were very devout. Latter-Day Saints, Mormons right? But they were also movie buffs. So like we could be at his house and watch, like the Rock. You know, like the Rock was okay to watch. His mom might like fast forward through that sexy and with Nicolas Cage and his fiancee, like, cursing violently. Yeah. Okay. This isn't happening. So, yeah, that would be like fast forward, you know? Well, we watch a lot of movies over there, but sexuality was like a huge no no. So somehow my friend and his dad were sitting around breakfast, like, having waffles. Dad was a huge basketball fan and actually even riffed basketball, like, for, you know, kids and stuff like that. So we all think it's a good idea to go to his game, which we do, which we do. And, you know, for like an hour of the movie, it's okay. You know, it's not outside of what is like, acceptable. There's been some flux, been some language, but that's it. It's just been rough language. You know, we're the age. Like my friend didn't want to sit next to his dad. So we like, sat in a different row, but we ended up sitting in front of him. So he was like a few rows behind us so he could see us, right? So everything's going fine. And then big time Willie shows up. Big time Willie and he got came is played by Roger Goodyear Smith. He was in School Daze. He was smiling and do the right thing. He was Rudy and Malcolm X didn't get on the bus. Summer of Sam. He's got that fuckin accent. And, you know, big time Willie is giving Jesus and Booker some life lessons. And here are the life lessons. Number one is avoid drugs. First thing is going to take you out is these drugs we got for you. You got the cocaine, heroin, crack cocaine. You got to oppose the founder's the cheaper crystal meth acid. You got the nicotine for you. You don't want none of that. You know, that's all fine to the Mormon dad. Yeah. Avoid that malt liquor, that liquid crack. I love that liquid crack. Yeah, A.K.A. liquid crack it. And then you do dice and you're shooting people. That's fine. You know, it's to see people murdered. That's fine. But then you got to avoid that. H i v And this is the brief sequence that changed my life and made for one of the most awkward movie. The most awkward movie going experience I will ever have. Because as soon as Spike Lee starts cutting to various women having sex with men and saying things, I was like, I will just I will never forget that moment of I don't even think I had seen it that explicitly in a movie before, let alone in a theater, let alone with my best friend's Mormon dad sitting right behind us. And I saw that and I was like, okay. Also, keep in mind, I've never seen a Spike Lee movie. I'm 12 years old. I've not seen any of his previous films. This is the first Spike Lee movie I saw, which may be why it's still my favorite. It was just and obviously, if you see the movie, this is not the only scene of sexuality in it. From here on out, the movie gets so horny and I was like, my God, To this day, To this day. What's so funny about it is that my dad the next weekend took my brother to go see it. Now, my brother is three years older than me and I told my dad as they were leaving, I just said, The only thing I can say is just remember that I've already seen it. So try not to be too mad at me when you like come home. So my dad walked into the house after he and my brother saw the movie and he's just laughing hysterically and he goes, I cannot believe he did not make you leave. I cannot believe your friend's dad didn't lean over and go, Boys, we're leaving. This is not the movie for us. But he did what? That's just you know that whenever I hear or see big time Willy, it's what I also think about, you know. Yeah, how can you not? And you got to avoid the bloodsucking leeches. That's the final lesson. And I love that little sequence because one of the bloodsucking leeches is Jamie Hector, who played Marlo Stanfield in the wire hook. A sister of I need some money. And it's a alive for my baby. I need some Pampers for my baby. I need some Dolce Gabbana for me. I need some channel cello, some Fendi. Come on up. Are you doing right? Yeah, Big time, Willie. It's a sequence that will be forever embedded in my head. my God. Good, good sequence. it's an amazing sequence. I mean, and it really spells out, like, all the realistic problems. Drugs, booze, sex. Yeah. This is one of those things that only film do. Like, you've got a point in your story where you want to do something. You want to express an idea. All right. We're going to have this one guy come in and, you know, we're going to be in a car, a cool car. He's going to be a certain kind of way. And then we're just going to do a bunch of editing shit, crazy Spike Lee type stuff and just hit this point home. It's one of the most enjoyable parts of the movie for me. So fun. And he infuses in like two different film stock. So it looks like grainy. Yeah, you know me very well. There is something about anytime where we just meet a guy or a character in a movie that is there for one specific reason, just in and out, and you just keep going, literally keep going. And that's what this movie is full of. Like we get so many of these people that just come in and they're never once again heard or seen for the most part. And they're just here for one specific reason. And then the main character moves forward. And when you get this, that's this, that's this guy. I love it. Big time. Well, yeah, it's such a you know, I don't want to say, but what he has, like, you know, a spell and then Booger starts to spell it. He's like, No HIV. Yeah, but, like, everything he says is the truth. But I just love, you know, that actor. He's such a character I love. It's like if you don't know where he's coming from either. At first, too, you're like, No, this. This guy who this guy worked for, like, is he really, what, one man band? Like just a hustler? Cody Island, I guess. Maybe Big, big Dog. Put the word out. I love him. Okay. What a scene. What a scene. We're going to get to another a scene stealer shortly. But, you know, the next main sequence is we already referenced it, but like when the coach offers him that money, you know, it's really just devastating. And I like that scene. I wouldn't have noticed unless listening to the commentary. If you go watch the scene when Jesus's coaches tried to give him ten grand, Ray Allen is very like fidgety and he keeps like scratching his neck and stuff. And as a commentary, he said, Spike, those lights you had on my back were so bright and hot. You can see smoke coming off of my towel because it's burning the sweat on the towel. And then he had a blister on his back. And Spike's like, I did that on purpose. my God, that's amazing. So the the white light is, like, really, really hot. So just go watch that. It's it's funny, that's all. that's really funny. Yeah. I mean, it's basically like this section of the movie right here is really all sorts of examples where where Jesus Shuttlesworth is getting tested left and right. Yeah, that's basically what it is. He gets a bang by LA law on the shirt Wonder Wheel there. That was a lot of fun to watch with my Mormon friends. That was great. The next one that this is like I made this is Big Willy was the appetizer but Dom Pagnol is is that Andre? I love this guy right here. Jesus is a contract. This makes me your agent. This allows me to represent you. I will take you to the top. I can't do that right now. I still have to weigh my options. How much does your watch cost? 89. 95, 89, 95. Right here is a platinum and diamond Rolex. The best you can buy Gold. Forget about it, Silver. Forget about it. You have platinum and diamonds. That's like having speed and power in the NBA. And Jesus, that watch is a gift from Dom PAC Naughty to you. Keep it. I bet the strings attached to him is no strings. There's no rubber bands. There's nothing attached at all. That's a $36,000 watch. It's like having a Corvette on your wrist. You keep that. I can't take this. Why not? It's illegal. I can't take it. I don't see anyone here. Just me and you. So this guy's Al Patagonia like he's in the Jets. Like private jets. I don't know if he sells them. I don't know. But he sat courtside. A lot of Knicks games. Spike Lee, we know this guy. We've talked about him using Girl six. He's one of the main guys of Summer of Sam. One of John Leguizamo is like main guys. He raps in Bamboozled, which is really something. He is Barry Peppers boss in 27 hours. Yes, of course. I just love this guy. And of course, he's the guy with the Albanian ex-wife and inside man, 100% Albanian. Do it 100%. Albania. I love this guy. This is his best scene. I mean, 25th hours. Are you coming here drinking your Red Bull shit? Like, great, too. But this fucking dumbass naughty sales pitch, I mean, it's just a classic scene. It's. It's like fuels the trailer. If you go watch the trailer, it's so good. I love that you like music as a $30,000 stereo system. State of the art. There's a small trailer home in North Carolina. You got playing music for you right there. I mean, this is this is by far of all of the little side scenes that happen inside of Carter's. This is by far my favorite. But there's just something about the musicality of his language. Your ear just wants to hear this guy in the way that he's selling, in the way that he's honest to God. I don't even know if this is a category. It might be the best agents character ever. That's that's it. He is a sports agent. He is basically there to try to convince Jesus to come on to the NBA. Yes. Which is not something we've heard a lot about in the movie. It's mostly been like, what college are you going to go to? But no, it's like, here it is, dude, I can give you a millions of dollars right now. Sign this form. Make me your agent. I can do this. You want this? Watch. This is nothing to me here. It's just you and I in this room. But yeah, the musicality to his language, his movement, his constant, like blinking and blinking platinum and diamond. It's like having power and speed in the NBA in just the way. Yeah, just throwing it out. Forget about it. those. Those are all his cars. That real actor. No way. Really. This. We're all we're we're his we're we're his isms like the blinking was that is that is that him too or is that was that a choice what he's doing here and in 21st our are very similar he just yeah but he it's the same blinking energy in 25th hour like you get like kind of back and forth but so that just has to be him. Yeah. Spike Lee is not the director where he's like, You have to blink when you say this. No, no, he's not. He's just he basically was like, Cook, go, cook because there's something so honest to about that. Like, you know, when people have like certain tics or something like that, like it almost becomes like an endearing part of their personality and like a way, and especially for a guy who's a sports agent who essentially, you know, their whole entire job is to bullshit. He has an answer for everything. Jesus goes, you know, I want to when I do an agent, I want it to be a brother. And he's like, Why? What color is this? I'm white. You're black, this is green. This is the only thing that matters. And you're like, It's a really good answer. It's a really good answer. And it was. It didn't even faze them. All right. Yeah. All right. That's true. What about this, though? Yeah. yeah, That's all good and everything. But when I'm ready, I'm thinking about hiring a brother to represent me. Now, why is that just feel comfortable with brothers and sisters? Let me ask you a question. What colors? It's green. You're black. I'm white. This is green. When making a business decision, the only color that matters. Jesus is green. Now, do you consider yourself a man or a boy? Of course I consider myself a man. Okay. Because men make decisions with their mind. Boys make decisions with their heart. Jesus. Love it. Love it. Yeah. I love him so much. It's just. It's such a good scene. And again, another thing that's like, this kid is only supposed to be 17, 18 years old. He's raised his sister. Yeah, he has no parents. Like how tempting it would be to just sign that, how tempting it would be to take that watch and sell that watch for $30,000. All Yeah, all that stuff. All that pressure weighing down. I love him. Do you consider yourself a boy or a man? It's like. Course I consider myself a man. Yeah, and just think about saying that about yourself at 18. Like. yeah. I don't know if I, you know, it's like, it's. Yeah, it's totally different. I'm so glad you just brought that line up because that that line, like, yeah, that moment really affected me too, for that exact same way. Like he's so assertive when he says that. I was like, I want to see that when I was as fuck. No, I wouldn't have either. I might have thought my my attitude might have been like, Yeah, of course I'm a man. Looking back now, 20 years later, fuck no, I didn't know a damn thing. And this dude's raising his sister like he's doing. He's going to school his big life on his hands. So it would have been really tempting to sign that document. But, you know, you go watch like, the 3430 broke, which is all about it's all about kids signing papers like that and getting drafted in the NBA. And then their talent doesn't really pan out and then they're broke years later. It it can happen or you don't end up getting drafted, yada, yada, yada. All that stuff. After the scene, we do move to the probably the most intense sequence in the movie. And that's, you know, yeah, it's just been hammered home that Jesus really has no one. And we get a warm flashback of him reading letters from his mom. Again, she is for sure the only person objectively in the film that unselfishly wants the best for him. Yeah, yeah. And Sally's probably the closest it is probably the closest thing to his mother. We go back to this flashback on the night of the murder, and we're watching a younger Denzel train, a now 12 year old Jesus. Those are tough scenes to watch. Those are the scenes that I'm talking about where like the most one of the most effective things about this scene to me and he got game is the other guy just with his 40 and he's like yeah this is too much Yeah even that guy saying it it's you know don't tell me how to raise my son really tense. And then we have a Jade Yorker playing Jesus at age 12 and he's great. Like when he launches that ball over the fence, it's like, what are we doing? Where is this going? And the first time I saw the movie, I was like, I get what this night is going to be like. I think I get, you know, like, this is the night. Yeah, It's a really, really good representation of toxic masculinity, too. I you know, and that's the thing too, is you do believe that Jake, he wants the best for his son. So he is pushing in that hard for maybe selfish reasons. Like I'm to give you what I could never do, what whatever that might be, the intentions might be. Well, but the execution in it is bad. And then the alcoholism that that that that follows it that adds to it is clearly like anytime this man drinks, things do not go well. This is good. I wanted to bring this up later. I think this is an important question that never got mentioned like in reviews and stuff, but there is a very clear drinking problem at play. Yeah, he gets drunk later in the movie and he's aggressive and knocks the fuck out, which someone on a week long furlough from Attica should not be punching dudes out in the middle of the street. But yeah. And I actually don't even think he was drunk for that. Yeah, but he wasn't. But. But he fucked it up like he. He like. Yeah, he fucked up that whole entire situation. We are jumping one scene ahead, but he fucked that whole thing up with Lala did not come. And then he goes and gets drunk. Then he goes and gets drunk and then he does. And then. Yeah. So like, clearly alcohol in this man do not get along together. And so when you add that into this, you get what that scene is and it's such an effective scene. It's honestly some of Denzel's best work. I think way he fucking grabs that kid and slams him down on that chair next to the fridge is I'm getting chills now. It's so and the kid drops all this food like it's bad. It's it's so disturbing to me. Like, it's so disturbing. And you see, he's like, Sit your ass down. Yeah. I'm like, Ooh, man, there's a yeah, you know, And these are the scenes that are really uncomfortable to watch, but this is like the level of fearlessness that it takes for acting to be able to just be like, All right, we need to go here. All right? Everything's going to be safe. Everyone's going to be fine, but we're going to go here. And I'm not afraid to do it. I'm not afraid to keep doing it. And it's why he's one of the greatest performers of all time. There's like. Like, yeah, Denzel is someone who is just a completely fearless, fearless actor. This is one of the best, I think, examples of his acting. Yeah. Another scene that has also been hit with a little bit criticism, and this is just so fun for me to say. So I'd never get to say this stuff. Of course, Martha Shuttlesworth is played by Lynette McKee, who is Malcolm X's mom and Malcolm X. She was in Jungle Fever. She was she hate me If you watch the motion picture, he got game and you think that Martha's death is quick or unrealistic. It's so stupid. I'm generally going to tell you that you are watching too many movies. Yeah. Ever get to say stuff like that. But violence, major violence is very, very possible with little effort. I so appreciate this realism because movies teach us you could, like, hit your head to a brick wall and bang your head here, bang your head there. He pushes her hard, he pushes her hard, and she hits the corner of like a counter. Yeah. If you do that just right in your temper or in your head, it's lights out. Is she dead Right there on the floor? I don't know. But she could have had something where like went to the hospital and died later. But I it's so simple. It's so believable to me in such a scary way. Like, yes, this can happen. This does happen. In fact, it does. And so even described it even more of that criticism where the the moment happens is in the when Denzel and the kid are like looking at her laying there and she's not moving, it's like it's and you see Denzel change. Yes. I want call no more. Yeah the anchors call in. The fear is now here exactly like so it's in like the selling of it after the fact. But yes, like all it takes is one wrong hit and you land somewhere like you break your neck, you hit your temple like that's it. Yeah. But then it's like that realization of like, did I just is this really happening that she like Because I would even imagine that situation you would think like that as human like she just hit her head like she can't possibly yeah you know like yeah that confusion that that fear But then also people suck man. What is with this criticism for this movie? These are bullshit. I know. And I get all these criticisms up. I know. Just like we did with Thelma and Louise about how the movie, it was like Anti men. I only bring this stuff up to paint context and because if anyone listened to the film or if you see it and you have these criticisms, we're just here to shoot them all down. That's what. Yeah, yeah. No one's going to criticize. No one's going to criticize this next sequence. One of the most moving things in the movie is when they meet Jesus and Jake meet on the, you know, the pier and they talk about where Jesus's name came from. And it is not just a biblical reference. It's because of this guy, Earl the Pearl, Earl Monroe is my all time favorite ballplayer was Zero World Out of four. It was nice to everybody. Remember from the Knicks knowing how to win their second championship and everything like that. But I'm talking about when he was with the Bullets down Winston-Salem Stadium before that game, 42 points a game the whole season, 41.60 CS for the Knicks. They put the shackles on him and, you know, on his whole game, they locked him up like in a straight jacket aside when he was in the streets of Philly playgrounds. He was, Well, you know, they call him what Jesus, That's what they call him Jesus, because he was the and this is this is about as perfect as Spike Lee filmmaking gets. Spike Lee is so good at occasionally interweaving documentaries footage into his narrative films. He does it at the very end of movies like Malcolm X, The very End of Black Klansman to a very effective way. And he does that here just this guy Earl Monroe, like practice set up and everything. Denzel says in this scene, it's all Spike Lee it's it's him like say get it dead, you know, spitting at the hook. You know, he did that. And you see, like, Jesus, be really interested in the story. And they're finally connecting as like father and son. It's really the first time we see them be father and son. Yeah, The music is helping perfectly. We see the two parole officers lurking in the background, watching them just, you know, they're always around. It's so beautiful and perfect. And Jesus is like, wait, it's you name it Jesus after Earl Monroe and not Jesus from the Bible. He's like, That's right. And then we cut back into them and he goes, Boom, I want you to go to a big sun. Yeah, It's like, here it is. Like I'm just put it all out there, put it all there. And here's the reason why. Like, here it is. And I it's perfect. It's really like we're a little more than halfway through the movie and now we have to start building at some point that it's going to be possible for Jesus to do what he does, which is go to big state. Is that because Jake asked him to, because he could get out early? That's that's unclear, which is good. But we you got to start introducing the possibility that Jesus, like has some humanity for his father and that's right here. That's where it is. You got to introduce the conflict now. Yeah. Like for Jesus, right up until this point, he's like, No, I just got to do what's best for me. But now someone else I'm responsible for, in a way. Yeah, I love that scene for those exact reasons. It is Spike Lee having fun. That's him shining. But that's also, you know, like that father son moment that we never, ever really get again either. Like, even in that end court scene, we don't get that. We're not back there. Yeah yeah. So to kind of get that is and it's all just done in like that one, I mean not one take but there's that one idea was walking down a pier, it probably was one take but he's just intercutting it with the dock footage. But yeah, it's always like an A two shot. Yeah. Walking. And it's just it's beautiful. Yeah. In the way he tries to give him the stuffed animal and then Jesus follows it off. Yeah. It's like kind of heartbroken. My heart rate there. I know. Like, because he really seems like he's going to, he's like, just give the summary and you really think going to and the first person he sees to pass it off to, he's like, Yeah, I'm not giving Mary shit from you, buddy. Yeah. yeah. It always remind you. It's like, yeah, they just had a good moment, but it doesn't. The writing will always remind you. Yeah. That there's still a lot of animosity there. And then, man, first time I saw he got game with my Mormon friend and it's more. And father. yeah, I was going to say this. This is if this is even worse, you would, you would never, never forget the tech you sequence, which is truly forever burned into my memory. I'm referring, obviously, to John Turturro's thrilling cameo as coach Billy Sunday. John Turturro, obviously a huge staple of Spike Lee's films, Do the Right Thing, Mo Better Blues, Jungle Fever, Clockers. He played. He voiced The Dog in Summer of Sam, which is great. That's great. I know. But no, of course, Rick Fox as chick showing Jesus around the school, he's giving them a lay of the land, as it were, and he leads Jesus, you know, they have lunch, they get all the different stuff. You come in the schools is what you're going to get. Do a little performance in the gym. It's all good. Then he takes them to a dormitory to meet the assistant coaches, Buffy and Susie. Rick Fox here played for the Lakers in 1998. He was also already an actor. He was in things like blue chips and Oz, Tiffany Jones and Jill Kelley played Buffy and Susie respectively. They both had sizable careers in film. I not familiar with their work when I saw this, but yeah, it was all just kind of as soon as a tech. You see it happened. I was like, I'm getting kicked out of this theater. I'm just going to feel if I could handle my back, pick me up. And yeah, it's what a memorable scene, let me tell you. Let me tell you. Yeah. Thank you. It's why you think since it's fucking grace is. Yeah. Jesus walks in to meet the assistant coaches at that. Don't worry about the names. And you're like, well, so this is and I'm listening to the commentary Ray Allen's I ain't seen this happen to me, but I'm telling you that this shit happens all the time. Yeah, did then did before. Still does now. And it's just like crazy. Yeah. Think about that. So it's it's yeah, the I've always kind of like, just wondered like the, the life of, like a sports figure when you're that good, like you're not just like trying to make it like it's like, no, like you're, you're, you're going, you're going to go to the top no matter where you go or whatever decision. But we need to, like, get you to where we want to get you. We got to curry the favor and I'll go, Yeah, yeah. It's crazy, dude Life is wild shit. You're damn right. That's one of the reasons why Spike Lee wanted to make it and show all this stuff to be like, this stuff exists. And these 18 year old kids. Yeah. To manage all this and, like, try to handle it. They're getting watches and cars and $10,000 from their coach in cash given to them. It's like how what another really funny thing about tech you very funny when I was looking at colleges where I wanted to go to school, I you know, took a few not like meetings. You know, you go and see a few schools. I went to the school campus, Island College in North Carolina was I was with my mom, very beautiful, very spacious and green looking around. And I'm like, I fucking know this place or I know this place. It was years, years later that I found out that was the tech you setting for tech you. So that's how I do it. That's hilarious. Buffy and Suzy were not on my tour. No, I'd imagine. But I know it was a good college. Didn't end up going there. Well, obviously, it's too small for me. Well, why would that be obvious? Because Buffy and Suzy weren't there? Well, you know, now we go to the scene because it's talked about. I call it like the Jake spins out sequence, which is where. Yeah, he meets up with LA and he punches out DeAndre in the street there. That's actually like a really good one to take down by that throat chop thing. And then the assisted right hook. Great stuff. But yeah, not something you should be doing when you have two parole officers on your back. But he runs to meet up with the parole officer. Let's ask for money for a little money to ask for money to get laid. And he's just very like upfront about that. He's like, got to, you know, got to go do it. Yeah. And then we get the big scene with Dakota, the other scene where they actually do copulate, as it were, and what can I say, copulate. Sorry. Yeah. Good sequence. I love it. It's kindness. It is. It really is. It's kind. It's sweet. Yeah, it's sensitive. I Yeah, I like it, too. I like when he pours out the, the liquor and he's like, here's some for the boys upstate. Yeah. It's kind of an old tradition, but yeah, that's, you know, a scene that happens in what we don't need to go. Well, I mean, it's. We're all adults here. It's furthering out the whole entire Dakota thing. Yeah. You know, like that. That's a whole entire part of that whole entire section. So, like, that's, that's, that's, that's the climax, if you will. Dern Baby, they got all night. No Russian. And then, yeah, we're really tying up loose ends here before we get to the, to the big game because Uncle Bubba picks him up on that brand new car. You got to fucking take that car back, idiot. An idiot? Yeah. Jake goes to visit the grave of his wife, which is just really, like, heartbreaking and, like, it shouldn't probably shouldn't work. That, like, an actor is just really emotionally, like, cradling and hugging this gravestone. But it absolutely works. Yeah, totally believe how much Jake misses her. And then kind of want to kick this to you that if this movie argument between Jesus and Love was like one of your favorite scenes in the movie, now I always love it there under that like harsh green neon, the camera's just kind of like bouncing back and forth between them. It's really believable. I mean, we talk about movie arguments a lot on what are you watching? And this is right up there. This is it really is? Because it's the it's the quality of what they're saying. Yeah. It's like each one of these characters now we know everything that we need to know for them. Like we know she's shady. He's got so much on his plate, I don't know where he's at in terms of are they going to stay together. I think he's kind of on the outs. I just think he has a lot of fucking stuff on his mind. That's what it is. If she was supportive, I bet he would want to stay with her if she was like, Whatever you want to do, I'm here for you. Like, she's not talking about Deandra, She's not talking about this. But clearly there's like, I mean, he did just, like, have a threesome with. Yes two white girls, which he denies right to her face that she's like, Now I know what what the deal is. So, yeah, like how and they all they are like 1718 so how quote unquote serious can this be? Exactly. And they're both lying and they're both telling the truth at the same time, which is just a really cool dichotomy to watch in an argument. Because when, you know, with the lies are you understand because of their youth what it is. And I even love that one line like where like we had sex and it's like and it was you that didn't want to use the condom and then like, yeah, yeah. Like you played yourself. No, thanks for mentioning. I know. Thanks for mentioning that, because that was just a great final sex scene for the Mormon, for the Mormons. That one clearly depicting unsafe sex between teenagers is just a fucking great way to just out. But thankfully the sex was done from here. We could all enjoy basketball for the rest of the movie. Yep. And then, like the her level of taking responsibility for it and her levels of not taking responsibility for things, I mean, it's crazy. I mean, it's like that scene just is like it's handled in, in sorts of directions. But I all of them are truthful memories. Even the lies are truthful because you see, like the truth pouring out of the lie at any time that we can get characters to reveal their truth in in ways that we don't expect is just the most interesting stuff. So this scene is just all of that. And then and then it ends up in a breakup. And I love that she like. Like to kiss that final kiss. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah. And she, like, grabs him on the lips. Yeah, Yeah, that's. I love that. it's very not just, like, realistic. It's like it's something. Yeah, it's, it has a, has a tinge, just realism to him and he, she walks away and he's like, good riddance. Yeah. I think that was my favorite acted scene from from Rayon and the whole entire movie. I love that. They're really good in that together. Like, really, really good. Very good. I love that scene. That's great. And then the movie comes down to, you know, some movies come down to one scene. I think this movie actually comes down to one like Shot, which we're going to get to, but it's one on one. It's father and son. This is, it's my favorite basketball scene ever put on cinema. There's just so much for me to say about this. Like, we'll talk about what we both how it hits us, like, emotionally, and then I'll talk about how they did it, which is really, really fascinating. And fans of the movie will know that story, but there's some people listening to this that may not know the story, but I don't It's risky to, like, not be too grandiose and too hyperbolic on the podcast. But watching this yesterday, which I've just been watching it like on repeat since we decided to do it, I don't know. It might be the most moving thing I've ever seen in a film, this final basketball game. It really might. I just I weep. I weep every time I watch it. I just. Yeah, let's just. I mean, let's open it up. This is what the movies come down to. Like, all bullshit aside, if I beat you, my son, then you have to sign this letter of intent. If You beat me, then I will go the fuck away. And you don't ever have to hear me again because I know that's what you really want. One on one, father and son. Let's go. Bet. Here we go. Yep. I mean, you can't ask for anything more. Almost in a similar way. If that were the very beginning of the movie sets you up for the most perfect plot, the end is the most perfect. We've come here, we know what the stakes are, and now we're actually playing from. So it feels like that. The coolest thing, I think, to me about this scene is that it happened to me both times. Well, especially the first time, because I didn't know exactly what was going to happen. But you do, I think, like you know, that this prodigy is is more than likely going to beat his dad. Of course. Yeah. It's just how we get there. Yeah. What what's going to be communicated within the game? Yeah, that's the thing. So, like, going into the game, you are as like, as an audience, as emotionally prepared as if, if it was going to be a complete head to head thing. Like you're like, my God. And this is got all of the things it's got father son, it's got old versus young, it's got teacher versus student. It's it's all of it wrapped into this one thing. And the coolest thing for me is not going to say what I want to say here. It's like wrestling it's like it. Sure, yeah. There there is an element of storytelling that just at a certain point becomes physical. All right. If I were first to 11, whoever's the first one to get here. Yep. And along the way, you see, like at first, Denzel's actually has the lead. Yeah. And then it slowly starts to go the other way. And then the shots that are taking the words that are being said are how out of breath he becomes like, this is all part of why this is such a beautiful final and not fight. But you know what I mean? Like it's it's its final contest. Yeah, the final contest. Yeah. All of those moments are played out so well. It's, it's, it's a perfect it's a perfect scene in that way. Yeah. It really, it's like a poem of like. Yeah. Setting up and the way it's passing off power from one to the other. Yeah. Passing out power. So the way it's scripted is that Jesus beats Jake 11 to 0. That's how it's scripted, that they do not rehearse this, They have camera set up and they're just going to film them actually playing. Clearly they had to go back and do some pickup shots because we're seeing it from different angles. So it's only just shot this once with like ten cameras. They would have had to do pickups. But they did shoot the bulk game at once with like a few different cameras. That's how it's scripted. And that is what Ray Allen is thinking is going to happen. Yeah, he's going to get out there and just beat Denzel. Denzel is secretly practicing basketball for like 3 hours every night, just every night. And he's constantly telling Ray Allen like, man, I can't go left. Like, I've never I got when I go to the rim, I attack it on the right every night. He's going left for 3 hours every night. It's just going left and practicing on its own. So they get out there and Ray Allen thinks he's going to crush Denzel Washington. If you go back and watch the scene, which I've done hundreds of times, immediately Denzel goes left and goes left and goes the rim and banks it. And if you look at Ray Allen's face, he's like, what the fuck is going on? What was that? He he's not supposed to score. And then they just start playing. So if you watch like Denzel Trash talking gets more, he didn't know he was going to make any of those shots. Like, Yeah, I feel refreshed. I think I'll go around again. Yeah great. And Ray Allen's pissed, like, actually pissed and they're going there and, you know, this is like getting cocky does that well behind he does that fade away like it bounces off the glass which is this like so old school like I didn't teach you that one. I didn't teach you that he's getting cocky. And then he just gassed himself out. And Ray Allen, while Denzel is getting cocky, Ray Allen's getting like, mad, like, All right, I'm not going to break character, but you want to play Well, get out here and play. And then quickly, like, you know, he's like seven to a lucky five. At some point, he Denzel is ahead. And then when Ray Allen goes, That's your last basket, like he doesn't score again. Denzel isn't score again. Now he's breaking out. I just love how it's a mix of like dunks, which Jake cannot defend. And then he's so tired, he's like, I'll give you that one. And he just drains that three right in front of him. He's like, Don't give me too many. And then, I forgot. And doing the roughhousing and fouling, yeah, doing all that stuff. And we see him and I just, I love that line of like, what are you doing? You given up? And he's like, No, I'm teaching, brother. Like, I can take a loss. I can take a loss. And he knows he's going to lose. And that's all moving. That's all good. And each shot is great. And it's even got some humor with real. It's like I said, you down there with them to his side of the court, which is an ad lib and and then it all you know he Jesus does win handily. He wins. Denzel is just out of it. You know, put a fork in him. He's done. He goes over and gets a letter of intent, just goes and hands it to Jesus. And Aaron Copeland's music is playing and we're hearing it. And Denzel two sticks out his hands. I've talked about this scene before on spot. But yeah, when he this is this is what the movie's all about to me because he, you know, puts out his hands and decides like, you don't have to worry about me anymore. You all you have to do is take care of yourself and take care of your sister. That's it. But you need to get that hatred out of your heart or else you'll end up another. And he uses the N-word to refer to himself, which is my least favorite word, and uses that word to refer to himself about himself in Raylan's face doesn't change, but he's he's locking eyes with him and the way Denzel says it, he says that word, which is so much like animosity. Then he says, You're going to end up another blank, just like your father. It's your ball. And then he walks away and like, walks toward us. And you can just, you know, the parole officers are there. And when they turn him around, you know, put your hands behind your back and handcuff him. He's this what the movie's all about. To me, it's these 30 seconds. He turns around and locks eyes with Jesus on the court, just looks at him, and there's a blankness over both of them. And in that, to me, I'm absolutely projecting all of my shit onto it. But I'm like, they get each other. That's it right there where they understand each other. Maybe it's because he won the game. Maybe it's because his Dad just used that terrible word to refer to himself. But they get it, and it's not like they're crying. It's not like they're looking at each other, like, nodding, like, Yeah, I got it. I love you, Dad. Not that it's a blankness and it's still we're still wondering where this movie's going to go. You know, there's still like 10 minutes to go. Where you going to go? But that the use of that word, the looking at each other, the resignation of I lost. I can take a loss and I lost the resignation of my son may never talk to me again. Never is so profoundly moving to me. So moving. I just I adore that sequence it. Yeah. It genuinely might be the most moving thing I've ever seen. I don't know. It's tough. It would be in the top five. That's not tough for me to say. Yeah, like, absolutely. And I just and I think it's some of the best acting Denzel's ever done to sequence and just doesn't get talked about a lot anymore. But yeah, I love it. I love it. Do you know any about like how it was shot, like any of that stuff? No, No. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the only way you're going to get that, too. Yeah. Just film what actually happens and then you can do things along the way, like, okay, we're already here. Let's, let's do this part again. Like, like, you know how every exactly where you can pick it up, like, after the fact. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, these are just two dudes playing basketball, and you do feel the age. Ray Allen barely breaks sweat. You get some baskets scored on him, but he barely breaks a sweat. Denzel can't even stand by the end of it. He's just so, like, gassed out. And it's like, yeah, this is this is what would happen. I love it. I could I could talk about the scene just because, like on a podcast, you don't get to hear the music, like with without music just soaring up and like, the way the sun does, it looks like it's fully set, at least on Denzel's coverage when he's getting like his hands cuffed. It just looks a little blue behind him. And then you hear the mom yell, Jesus, It's like kind of corny. It shouldn't work. And the crane fucking goes up for the camera. It shouldn't work, but it does are just so beautiful. I love it. It's it's great. It's great. It's it's. It's perfect. And the movie ain't even done. So got to know what's going on. What's he going to do? Jesus, via his coach announces that he is indeed going to big state. He did not sign that letter of intent. But you know I love that we get all the reactions from different people like La la. There should no reaction from her. Even big time Willie's there. It's like it's bogus. He did not go for the big bucks. Like. Yeah, but how do you feel about that decision? Like he decided to go to big state. I me personally, this is this is where like you get to have like your own, like personal, like, projections. I think I would have liked to have seen Jesus go to the NBA. Yeah, a lot of people thought take the money. Well, I mean, because it does it does a number of things. It sets you up to take care of your sister. It immediately provide you an opportunity, if you're as good is as you say you are. I mean, it's a gamble for sure because you're you're just jumping right into the into the big leagues. But the same time, I don't know. I guess I just sort of also that feeling to me is Nick. I'm like, well, it's like nothing. Just cut out the middleman. Let's just let's just cut out the middleman. Take the money, take the money. Let's just get to work and then, you know, figure it out, I guess. But I, but that's just me. Well, I think his mother did put a lot of stock into it and into going to college. And I think if we didn't have that and if we didn't know that, I think him going pro would have been a much more logical decision. Yeah, think so too. And I think he you know, he's a character that did remain true to all the things that he said. He was someone that like very much He's like, this is how I feel. This is what we're going to do. We'll figure it out as we go. But I believe in education. I believe in this and that. So yeah, but maybe instead of going to the big stadium, want to tech you? Yeah he's got his whole life ahead of it would take you there. does he ever. Yeah. Big state Leave it to Spike Lee. I love these I love bittersweet endings Like, it's sweet. He went to Big state. His reasons are his own, but that letter of intent did not get signed. Technically. Yeah, technically, I really like to sending. I like that. It's bittersweet in that we don't exactly know what's going to happen to Jake. I you know, we get to see Dakota going on the bus we get that very we get to see CIP now being courted by big time Willy out in the car. See Jennifer Esposito showing up for like 5 seconds. I also do love that very quick newspaper scene when Booker's reading the newspaper and the teammate grabs it from it, he's like about to graduate. He can't even read Dumb ass. It so irks me with that shit. I'm fine with that stuff. I'm fine with them going to big state, That's all fine. But then we go to the very final sequence When Jesus is practicing his amazing shot alone at big state, Jake is practicing again in Attica. We're going back to, like, the beginning of the movie. Yep. And there's two things going on here. One, the thing that I really did not want happen was that when the first time I was see this, I really thought that prison guard was just going to shoot him. That's what I thought too, because. Yeah, because Jake steps out of bounds, literally steps out of bounds. What? He's not allowed to in the yard, and he launches his cruddy prison yard basketball over the fence. And that basketball then appears to be flying in the arena at big state and it lands at Jesus's feet. Feet. Now, obviously, this couldn't happen, but it's a metaphor for emotional connectedness. This is not something that the movie ever does. I understand that. I understand that that's how we can, like, lose people. But I just always thought it was hysterical that people would hone in all this and be like, well, that's dumb. I go, That that's that's what you have to say about He got game just. The ball throwing thing is dumb. I'm I'm glad Jake live that's what I'm happy about. I don't think it's dumb. I totally I think it's due to some of it. Yeah. It's totally beautiful. They're connected. Yes, it's the poetic part of it. Yeah. my God. The metaphor. Metaphor, metaphor. God damn people. Yeah. One of the reasons why this movie is so memorable for me is that first time I saw it, of course, which was funny, but this is also like one of two movies that my brother and I watched together all the time. And this really had an impact on him. We talked just a lot about like how the characters related to us in our lives. In passing. It was, yeah, it was meaningful and I remember watching this movie with my brother and a few of his friends and the ending happens and someone, one of his friends just started talking a little shit about the scene and how it didn't make sense. Now it was stupid. And my brother, certainly no stranger to cutting people down, just kind of stared ahead. It was like, it's a metaphor for the connection, you fucking idiot. Then he goes, I can't believe I have friends as dumb as you. I'll never forget it. Rest in peace to my brother, I suppose. Yeah, I'll never. I'll just never forget it. You said they're laughing, but that's. He got game. That's the movie. Like in Fool. And it is. Yeah. We just talked about my favorite again, my favorite Spike Lee movie. I'm so glad you've been on this journey of checking it out, but we I didn't mention the cinematographer. His name, Malik Hasan, said he shot Clockers and Girl six. I love the way this movie looks in terms of the different film stocks. Of course, the editing is by Barry Alexander Brown. He has edited more than 12 of Spike Lee's movies, including masterful documentaries. Then Music is by Aaron Copeland and Public Enemy, which to, you know, just a group and a musician that should not work together in tandem. But does ever the way that it starts, in the way that it leaves you in the journey, you go on the whole entire way. And we always use that word. It's universal, but powerful, like the whole entire ride. Iran, the messages, the themes, the things that kind of connect you to who we are is extremely powerful. It's rare to come across an example of a movie that can do that and do it this well. Yeah, it's so obvious that Spike is so into basketball and cares so passionately about the stuff. Even back to that Earl Pearl. The speech is like, you know, the media got a hold of it. You can't just be Jesus got to be black Jesus like that. So Spike Lee, I just hear him in all of it. And I. I love it. I'm so glad we talked about this. Of course, I want to talk about all the Oscars that was nominated for because it was nominated for Best Screenplay actor, Denzel, best director and best Picture. wait. Of course, this movie received zero Oscar nomination saying it absolutely should have received some, but it didn't. It I don't think it was ever going to. It was Ray Allen was nominated for the MTV Movie Award for Best Breakthrough Male Performance, losing, of course, to James Vanderbeek Varsity Blues. Naturally, as the only awards attention the film got, I even remember if we did this for the Malcolm X podcast. I can't even remember. I don't. But I want to do our top five Denzel Washington performances. That's it. We can go back and forth, whatever it is. We've already spoiled our number one, which we settle on. Malcolm X was Malcolm X, so we have a shared number one. So you can just get them all to me in a row. I just want to hear what they are. And if he got game comes in anywhere. Well, it sure does. All right, I'll start it. I'll just work our way up to number one. All right. As we always do. Yes. So coming in at number five is fences. Ooh, nice. Okay. Which he also directed. Yeah. Thought a lot about that one. I think at the end of the day, I think I got to throw that one in there. Okay. Number four, the hurricane. Yes, yes. That's all my list. I'll let you know where the number three is. He got game. All right. I mean, number two, every time I talk about this movie, I always kind of roll my eyes because unfortunately, it just that is that good. It's training day. Okay. You know, it's he's I guess what it is. And then number one, Malcolm X. Malcolm X. All right, here we go. Some similarities. Number five flight. Yeah That is the big one for me, because I think he does really well with that. I think it's really fucked up. He does very good. Number four, Philadelphia. Yeah. Spring performance, you may say, but I think he's good in that. Number three, the hurricane. So glad that made your list. I don't even know you like that. I love that movie. Love that. Yeah. God, I love that movie. Number two, Jake Shuttlesworth. He got game number one, Malcolm X. So, yeah, no training day for me in the top five because I never thought that was one of his top five performances. But that's okay. He's very, very good and I'm not taking anything away. I just think the guy should have won a best acting Oscar years. Yeah, for that, which everyone agrees with me on. I know, but 100% is good. It's good. I'd probably be like six. Honestly, It's iconic. I mean, I think that's It is. It is. It's just iconic. Yeah, but. But I also think that you had to get to that body of that he had done before. And to get to that, Yeah. He had to prove that he could be good before he went full on bad. Blake Shuttlesworth is an awfully good guy, but he ain't as bad as Alonzo Harris. Yeah, Paris. Just bad to the bone. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I love it. All right, well, then we'll move on to what he watching here. All right, I think I'm cheating, but I'm doubling down. I'm doubling down on a movie that I just. I literally watched it twice because I liked it that much. So apparently, like, I can't get enough of it. She's got to have it. shit. Okay. I love it. I really love this movie, man. I love this movie. I love everything about. I think this movie is just an absolute fucking genius piece of work. It's exactly what I like out of, like an artsy indie type of movie. And it's got so much to say. Let's. Yeah, I'm going to. I mean, I love that. I love that you've connected with it so strongly. I'm wondering what like we can do to advance this spike Lee. Spike Lee Dom. Because the only thing I don't need you, like, I just need you to focus on 25th, 25th hour and before. So between she's got to have it in 25th hour and. You have not all of them you like have to see. But I would love to hear your thoughts on School Daze. Mo Better Blues is the one that you would fucking love. You would just love that movie. It's so good. Yeah, that's great. I mean, she's got to have it is again, like made that for 175,000. His grandmother helped him out with some of the budget. Like you're just doing it with nothing like you have no money and you're just doing it. I love that John Cassavetes and Martin Scorsese were his biggest influences when he made that Go Watch. Is it still on Netflix? Do you do you know it was for a while. I don't know if it was. That's where I saw it. I don't know if it's still on. Yeah, it's only 84 minutes. Like it just cruises by. And of course, like we talk about old time, you get to see Spike Lee, like the things that would be in his million dollars budget movies later on. You see them here. And I love that stuff. I love that mind's a bit of a cheat. Well, actually, I already mentioned it a lot, but I had not seen it in years and I put on Hoop Dreams. I have my Criterion DVD. It's also this is one of those movies, unlike He got Game, Hoop Dreams is available everywhere. It's on Tubi, Pluto, HBO Prime. It's just everywhere. Yeah. This is not a movie. It's hard to see. It's so funny that when this movie came out, it was the three hour documentary who, like it's so long, it's actually like 2 hours and 52 minutes. When I put it on yesterday, I just like, shrugged and went, that's how long? Like where you to that shit? But at this point, Roger Ebert's favorite movie, the Nineties. It is. It's an amazing documentary that was criminally ignored by the Academy. A lot of things you see in the movie set up his game very well. This was obviously a documentary that Spike Lee was very fond of. As I mentioned a few hours ago, he was in it. He has a really memorable scene. So Hoop Dreams, she's got to have it. He got game. They're all in the family. Baby, I'm so glad we did this. I've been with this for so long since we started. This is awesome. that was great. All right, folks, let me. Hey, if you haven't game in a while and you're watching it, let us know if you've never seen it. And we've motivated you to watch it. For the love of God, let us know. I would love to hear that on Twitter, Instagram letterboxd at W aiw underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas Dose Tor.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at what are you watching podcast at gmail.com or. Find us on Twitter, Instagram and letterbox at W aiw underscore podcast. Well, we both seen poor things. I've seen it twice and we both saw Maestro in the theater. So next time my my. Do we have thoughts on both? Stay tuned. and public enemies he got game is playing right now this song Samples for what it's Worth by Buffalo Springfield. Duh. Happy holidays, everyone. It might feel good. It might sound a little subtle, but damn the game if it don't mean nothing. What? It's game. Got game. The game and life. Behind the game. Behind the game. I got game. She got game. We got game. They got game. He got game. It might feel good. It might sound a little of fuck the game if they say game. Was it something I said for you don't see So you turn your head. We're scared of his shadow, doesn't matter for the rebels, race has got to play with the population. Nothing to lose, everything to prove people use even murders and skilled kids to fight. Still have to jump. Still 1001 ways to lose, which is God takes care home, folks as fools while the devil takes care of making all the rules for us. Don't even own themselves. Pay him debt. Which the corporate presence since one out of 1 million residents being decisions away kissing it. The politics of change is got the sick missing ships and all the championship. What's love got to do with what? You got to let the wind get to your head or lot to your heart? Nonsense, perseveres Presley Sweet fear Beware to trip my good and my sound. No, some but dare the game if it don't mean what is game? Who got game? Yes, the game. Like behind the game. Behind the game. I got game. She got game. We got game. They got game. We got game. It might feel good. It might sound little Some of fuck the game if it ain't saying no. Yeah that's right Everybody got game which is it lets you all know it is a full effect from right now till the year 2000. Hey yo my missing you. Something happening? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Word is Shaq. Big. Who is he, man? With God over there. Yeah, that's right. I'm not killing me. I've got you. You again. It's time we stop jails. What's that? Said everybody. What's going. Hey, yo, what's up?