107: Thelma & Louise (1991)

Alex and Nick drive deep into the heart of podcasting to discuss their favorite Ridley Scott film, “Thelma & Louise.”
The guys talk about the development of the film (four people were cast as Thelma & Louise before Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis!), Ridley Scott’s depiction of Americana, Hans Zimmer’s perfect score, Harvey Keitel, Michael Madsen, the film’s wild Oscar stat, and Alex explains why Christopher McDonald as Darryl is the funniest performance he’s ever seen.
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Watch Alex's films at http://alexwithrow.com/
Watch Nick's films at https://www.nicholasdostal.com/
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Transcript

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You. It. I know. It's crazy. I just feel like I've got a knack for this shit. I believe you did not like him. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withdrawal, and I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there, Thelma and Gina. Jean Valjean. Is that so? Genius. Who you prefer over Louise? I love Gina. She's my very first crush. Have you ever sat on a podcast before? I think I may. Have we mention a League of Their Own at some point and in our best scores, Episode four for All Handsy Hands, who also does the score for this? Sure. Fucking does that. Yeah, he does. And let me just say, I'm excited to be here. Okay, Good, good, good. Thelma Louise is one of my favorite movies. It's one of my favorite movies of the nineties. Yes, it's one of my favorite movies that anyone involved with ever made. I love everything about it, so that's why we're doing it. There's really no other reason. This is just because we want to talk about it. I have been wanting to talk about it for ages. You were nice enough to agree to do this because I did not remember this. I had to listen to a previous episode of ours. But the first time you watched them in the weeds was for our Christopher McDonald pod, right? Yes, it was. You hadn't seen it? Yes. So that's this is what I've been really telling you. Like, hey, trust me when you get to it, like it's going to blow your mind. It is not, you know, don't judge a book by its cover. Whatever the reputation of it now is much better, I think, even than like ten years ago. I just think this gets better every single year. But yeah, I'm so excited to talk about this one day. That's all. We're just going to talk. We're going to go wherever we go with it. We're on the road, baby. This stands is like so like what was bring it all the way back to it was 2020. Yes, We were deep in the pandemic. And this Chris Mack. Oh, there it is. I know it's going to it's going to turn on Here comes No Jericho. No, no, not yet. Not yet. Let me clarify the rules for the use of the Chris Mack sound bite. The the standard operating procedure is to play the ditty right before we talk about Chris Mack's work in the film, one of us can't just be like, yada, yada. Chris Mack Got you, fucker. Yeah, the ditty will play before. In this case, we talk about Daryl in-depth. The ditty does not play just because his name is mentioned now, noting that Thelma Louise contains the funniest performance I've ever seen in a movie. To me, it is the performance that makes me laugh the hardest at Christopher McDonald as Daryl. Yes. Okay. Sorry. Before you cut me off completely, I had my whole I did tell you. I know you did. You got your whole thing. I know, I know. I get very excited. So when we were doing this whole entire thing, I remember that first year of the pod. I was just so much watching for so many brand new movies. And I remember this being one of the biggest discoveries. Yeah, when we were doing Cassavetes, we were doing we were doing all sorts of shit that first year, but this was, I would say, top five, maybe even top three of my favorite movies that I had never seen and now had seen because of this podcast. Yeah, this movie is just fucking great and it's so I am very glad we are doing this. And yes, it is one of the funniest performances I've ever seen on screen from one single person. Daryl Chris back as Daryl. Yes, we'll get to all of that. I mean, this movie's so good to me. I this is not an exaggeration. I watched this movie three times, three times yesterday in a row because I watched it. First I brought I bought the Criterion 4K and it just looks God, Thelma and Louise have never looked better. So I watched it listening to the commentary with those two and the writer Callie Khouri, who was on it. I never listen to that. Then I watched it again listening with Ridley Scott. I hadn't seen that before, but he's just so good. And then I just watched it straight. And it was also but I loved this movie so much that I was never bored. Did like, oh, the third viola goes like, Oh yeah, okay, I see where they were talking. Oh, yeah, that's where that thing is. Okay, cool. And so I'm, I'm primed and ready to go. But yes, there's I've seen this one in the theater a few times since we started this podcast. Alamo is really good about playing it. They'll play it usually once a year. It's one that I love to talk about and love to tell people about all sorts of people, because it's like, this just isn't the movie. If you haven't seen it, it's not the movie you think it's going to be. Oh, ever. You think it's going to be it's not going to be that. And what's really interesting for me is that I wasn't even planning on talking about any of this. And if we do, we will do it much later. But just to address it now, I have never had the relationship with this movie how people in 1991 did, which is that when this movie came out, it was such a sensation, even for so many people. I mean, it was nominated for and one Oscars, it was made by Ridley Scott. This movie was a really, really big deal. But this movie was also fucking hated and detested by all these soft ass men who can't, you know, handle some. And they were labeling it as something that like it wasn't. I honestly, I don't even know if I ever knew this, but I learned this. The women on their commentary, this is what they're talking about a lot. And they recorded that commentary ten years later in 2001, and they were just talking about how their whole lives for like two, three months after the movie came out was quote unquote, defending it. And then I found some old interviews with like Brad Pitt and Christopher McDonald sitting together on a couch. They start off with like, So tell me about like the problems with this movie. Like, why should people be afraid of this movie? That's how the interview interviewer starts. And I was like, Wait, what? So I'm just bringing this up because there are, you know, people older than us who listen to this podcast and we love you, we love you all young and old, we love you all. And so people can have a different relationship to it. Be like, Yeah, I do love that movie, but holy shit, the summer of 1991, that movie was a thing and it was. It was just the thing. Well, I mean, it's completely preposterous. Exactly. You would even have that type of reaction to it. But I mean, the only thing that I can even think of is just because this was probably one of the very I mean, there's been movies been made focusing on women before this, but this was very mainstream. Yes. At a time where this you did not it wasn't today. We're not seeing, you know, these types of like women driven stories that we are today. Right. This was not the norm. And the thing is, is that this movie has so much substance. It's got it's got so much character development. It's got real people, real situations. Oh, I have this in my notes. This movie is logistically accounted for across the board. Yeah. I don't know what it must do to men where where you are, because this is like we're talking like with Barbie to, like, there's a similar sentiment. Yeah. Where this idea that that a woman could want to have freedom. Oh, that, that. Yeah. Jesus. That that that a woman could want things that don't have to do with men or that. And then going after that and dealing with whatever consequences that life brings. Not because of men, just life. Yeah. And just kind of going with that, that must upset men to some kind of like level that they need to create a backlash about Nene the Barbie one is died down for sure, but it still exists. You still hear some fucking creepy old fashioned, dimwitted dudes talk that way. Yeah, fucking Stone Age. Either way. All that is to say this movie is a fucking note. Perfect movie. There it is. Oh, God, it really is Shining the fucking wind chimes. Then you've got to create your 32nd jingle. What are you watching? Note Perfect movie. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I mean, and we're just like all this. The backlash the movie received. I said we were going to talk about it later. We're just going to get it. We're talking about now because it doesn't because we're going to talk about it now and then get it out of the way because it's not the reputation that it has now. And again, that was just like a select group because this thing went on to get nominated for Oscars in a very difficult Oscar year, meaning like a really good Oscar year. And then it went on to win one. Talk about all that. But so we know how you saw for the first time it was because of the podcast, because I was like, we're doing a Chris Mac episode, one of our first ones, one of our top ten, and Michael Biehn, we got both those and they're in the top ten. My relationship with this movie and how it became one of my favorite movies is that I was just texting my dad about this to confirm. So every summer, like I would have a babysitter that usually came and stayed like at the house during the day. You know, they lived in town. My parents would go to work. They stayed at the house and avoided my brother at all costs. And that was just kind of it. And I was an easy kid to take care of. I just watched movies. That was it. So I will never forget specifically. I was ten years old. That's what my dad confirmed. And she came over and I said, Oh, do you want to watch Thelma and Louise? Because it's like a movie to watch. And she looked at me and said, I'm not allowed to watch that. Or are you allowed to watch this? Yeah, I mean, she's probably 50 or 60 or something like that. And so she wasn't allowed to watch it like her parents. So that was a really early example of me being allowed to watch whatever my babysitters be like, Oh my God, like, I'm not even allowed to put this on. So you wonder why I don't get, like, emotionally rattled During the end of Toy Story three. It's because I was watching Thelma Louise when I was like ten. Like, of course, like, here it is. I mean, I've been watching this shit. It's like, or as early as can be like this is why it doesn't affect me as an adult when I see it in an animated movie, because I was having an emotional reaction to it. I was ten, you know, I'm so glad you like, I can't believe you brought that up because that Oh, yeah, that like, that was one of the things that I wanted to talk about was one of the most earned acceptances of death. Oh, God. I've like, ever, like. And the thing is, it's like, you get it. Oh, yeah. There's not even, like, an emotional kind of tie to, like. Like. Like what? What? Are you serious? Like, No, no, no, not at all. The movie has to earn that. Yeah. Oh, you can't just, like, put that into a script and be like. Yeah, like we're. We're going to hope that, like, that comes across. Yeah. This was a whole situation leading up to that when this decision comes down, you're weirdly rooting for them to do that. It's a perfect balance of like, they can't get caught. They can't end getting. Yeah, please. No, they can't. But like, just keep going. That's what Gene says. Just keep going. It it's like, I mean, you get it and it kind of you leave like you do not leave in a downer mode. No, it's sort of weirdly beautiful. Yeah. Because they, you know, over the credits, they're showing like fun moments from the movie, which is a really good editing choice that was decided in editing to do that. That's one of the reasons why I love the movie so much. And it's like, that's a really, really tough thing to pull off and somehow they do it. Maybe the hurts like, Yeah, and you, it's not only like you don't necessarily want it, but because you trust that the movie has led you right here. The movie has literally led us to the edge of a cliff, literally to the edge of a cliff. And it's like because we're not questioning how we got here, we're like, yeah, it makes sense. We've been following them for 2 hours or however long, five days. Within the narrative of the movie, it makes sense that they're here. So just keep going and yeah, it's like it is. It's like oddly beautiful and like, kind of worth celebrating in some way because they whatever, they went out on their own terms and they have they had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. And the only people who got hurt were people who deserve to, you know, I don't know this this was the one thing that kept coming back to me and it speaks to all this. That might be a good way to even start launching at the beginning is that to me, this movie is all about freedom. Yeah. And and in so many ways it's it's it's freedom from the the lives that these characters were living, but it's also freedom from the rules, freedom from what are we supposed to be versus what can we actually just do. Yeah. And finding yourself in that freedom in that because that's what they do. Oh, yeah. I just kept thinking more and more as this movie went on. I go, Man, this movie just achieves different levels of freedom and and they're all urns. And it's so good. Oh, so good. I mean, so here's what the movie's about. Yeah, it's right now starting. This is like, no, this is literally two sentences. Best friends Thelma and Louise head out to a cabin for a long weekend and they get into some trouble along the way and they spend the rest of the movie running from the law and getting into all sorts of trouble. That's it. That's as bare bones as you get. You know, they're driving around. I mean, like the third star of the movie is this 1966 Ford T-Bird. Oh, God. It's just looks like great turquoise color, white leather, interior, and that's it. And yes, they're on the road to whatever the road to freedom. The road, I mean, where they intend to go gets disrupted very quickly, very shortly into their trip for reasons we'll get into. But I think for a movie like this to work out because, like, it's just crazy how everything came together because a friend of the writer Kelly Corey's like, she wrote this, but a friend of hers worked at Ridley Scott's production office. He loved the script. He bought it for half a million and just strictly stuck on as a producer. And he went through all these other directors like Bob Rafelson love, Bob Rafelson, Richard Donner. Richard Donner was really close, and they all turned it down. So then the woman who was attached in the lead, Michelle Pfeiffer White, she convinced Ridley Scott to come aboard. At that time, it was Michelle Pfeiffer slash Jodie Foster, and that was what it was sold on to go. Yep. All the while, Gina Davis has read the script and she's like angling in the background. Like, I've read the script, She's met the writer already. She's like, Oh, God, like, please let me get this, please. Timing issues come up. Phifer and Foster out. Then it goes to Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn, and that's the Go movie. And it's like and then it's still timing things. Postcards from the Edge did come out the year before, and that's kind of similar. So I bet Meryl was like, No, let's go. So then they get to Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon, and Geena Davis had been tracking it from the beginning and been like really hoping it would land in her lap. And it did. And I love that. Yeah. So, I mean, oh, that's really cool. But then why does Ridley Scott decide to take it on? Because, you know, Yeah. So leading up to this, he had like the duelists alien, Blade Runner legend, someone to watch over me. Black Rain, one of your favorites. But none of those are like, Hey, you can take on a movie with two female leads. Like, none of that is really suggestive of it. And he goes, You know what? All these other guys are turning to town, someone to pick it up and do it. And I did a last duel review when that movie came out and we did our we both did our top five. Ridley's at the end of it, you came on and did a little guest appearance, so here's what year it was. Yeah, five Black Reign, four Alien, three Blade Runner, two Black Hawk Down, one Thelma and Louise. Love Up. Yeah, mine is five. The Counselor Director's cut, and then the rest we share for Blade Runner three, Black Hawk Down, two Alien, one Thelma and Louise. That's another reason why we're talking about it. Because Ridley Scott. I mean, this dude's just a maniac like he's directed 29 movies, and 27 have been released. Napoleon, which is going to come out in a few months, is number 28. And then Gladiator two is going to be number 29 crazy career. So I think part of his enduring legacy is agreeing to take this movie on and turn it, we got to say, like into a Ridley Scott movie, because it doesn't feel just like, I don't know. I think part of the stereotype is it's not going to be like as tough as it is. But there's some what I like to call pure Ridley shit involved with this movie that I think really makes Stillman Louis stand out. But he's always I okay, this is a this is a interesting thing to say about a director. He's never a standout for me, like he's never one that comes out to the forefront of when I'm thinking of like my top ten directors. But every time I'm watching a Ridley Scott movie, I'm in that moment. Recognize seeing that I am in the hands of a pure craftsman. Oh, yeah. Like there is something about his movies that he always like, just he always does it like, even if they're not the best movies, sometimes he he never delivers a bad movie, let's say. Yeah. Yeah. Like he, he he always is it consistently solid and delivers and I mean this is a terrible serviceable like he's no yeah yeah I never you're never going to have like a bad time. I've never had a bad time starting up one of his movies. I don't like all of them necessarily but you know he's he's very concerned with just working his the dude This was in 1977. His longest gap between movies is only four years and that's happened like, once or twice. But to do just keeps making movies. Yeah, he keeps getting older too, and he doesn't care. Like we already said Napoleon. Napoleon's going to be a huge movie. Gladiator two is going to be a huge movie. So he's like Chris Jericho of of directors. Sure. Yeah, I get that reference. I totally get it. You know. And of course, never won a best director Oscar, only been nominated three times. First, his first nomination was for this movie for Thelma Louise, nominated for Gladiator, now in it for Black Hawk Down, the nominee for best picture for the Martian zero wins. Of course, I love his audio commentaries. He's also one you know, we've been circling, doing like a director's cut podcast for some time, like direct, you know, which ones are better. He tinkers with his films a lot, but he has never touched Thelma and Louise. And I think that really says something. You know, how many versions of Blade Runner do we have? But he's never touched Thelma Louise, so I think that speaks highly of it. I you know, I did some of the casting set up, but how he led that Geena Davis in Susan Sarandon. So like, when did this crush of yours start with Geena Davis? I was like, What performances are we talking like? Beetlejuice or we don't back? I saw a League of Their Own. Oh, like, Oh, yeah, whatever. Whenever that was 99, that was the kid the year after this. Yeah. Yep. And that was the first time I'd ever seen her. So I had not seen Beetlejuice yet. I gotcha. And I just memorize Go, Mom, Who is that? She's beautiful. And that was the first time I ever remember. Like. Like seeing, like, a woman and just being like, Oh, wow, okay, things are different now. I love that. And then I remember like, like, like I saw Beetlejuice and I go, Oh, it's her. It's her again. Yeah. I mean, she's so good in this movie. We're going to get to like, Oh, this is her video, I think. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely my favorite of hers. But she was actually coming off an Oscar win. She won Best Supporting Actress Oscar in 1988 for The Accidental Tourist. So she's coming off that and again, very excited and very much hoping that she can play Thelma and like kind of putting up with, oh, the script's going to this director and oh, it's going to this star, and then really sticking with it. And then Susan Sarandon had been acting a little longer and she'd been nominated for Atlantic City, Lorenzo's Oil, the client, and then she eventually wins for Dead Man Walking, which has been a hotly contested win on this podcast because it was 1995, the year of our beloved Sharon Stone in Casino and Elisabeth Shue. And she's Vegas. Yeah. So, you know, it all just goes goes one way, it goes another. But Thelma and Louise are my favorite performance from both of them. I mean, a lot of people in here is my favorite work for them. And I just. Oh, my God, do I love them? I love them so much. I have to think about my favorite. Sarandon But this is like absolutely up there for sure. Yeah. What's so cool about these performances is that there's like, there's let's go to Mexico. I mean, Chicago and fucking Mexico. Not where I drive to Texas. There's like this graph that they're both on where when they start, it's kind of like Louise Susan Sarandon is like the tougher one, the stronger one. She's more intense, more like that, and film, maybe the more timid one. And then when the money gets stolen and there's that, they literally like cross and change dynamics. And that's one of the reasons why I love the movie so much, which isn't to say that Susan Sarandon becomes weak and like Geena Davis because she's badass, but you see them like it's actually like Louise becomes more vulnerable and starts revealing more of herself emotionally, and Thelma just starts sticking up for herself on a human level. And that's one of the dynamics that I love about the movie and why they work so well together. Because all that bullshit backlash I mentioned earlier, everyone had a fucking ball making this like a ball. Everyone did that that that shows you're you're I love that idea of this graph that that's such a great way to see I'm saying that these to yet Yeah they start and then when the money gets stolen and like Louise it's flipping out like it's done like it's Yeah this is it, it's done. And then Thelma has to pick her up and build Europe. Then it's like they're crossing over there. I mean, I met when we meet Thelma, she's like making Darryl, you know, coffee in the kitchen, in her robe and everything. By the end of the movie, she's fucking blowing up trucks, like. So I was actually at my my very one of my very first notes of the movie was in that opening scene, the way that she has to appease herself to Daryl because she gets off the phone with Louise. Yeah, we don't really know much about Thelma yet. We don't really know her personality, but we see that she's excited about something. And then there's the thing where they are. You have to tell Darryl, right? And she's like, Yeah, yeah, I'm working on it more or less. I'm paraphrasing, But then you see her and she doesn't. She just completely just kind of like turns into the housewife. I'm using my quotations here. Yes. And, and you know, to appease the man. And, and then, of course, you know, Darryl is sterile about it, but from that point on, like, she's packing her suitcase full of a bunch of things, she's ready to go on a girls trip, which she, you know, she doesn't get out of the house much. And and Susan Strand is very much this is tacked on to your point that she is the one who is the leader, like, oh, like we need to get you out of the house. Well, I need to get out of the house, but we need to get out of the house. I'm going to handle everything because even when the crime is committed, everything is on. Susan Sarandon. I just need a coffee to figure this out. I just need to stop and get some rest, and I'm going to figure out what to do because Geena Davis is crumbling. Oh, yeah, Crumbling over everything. She can't make a decision. And I know we're jumping around, But then there's that line where she calls her out. She goes, I'm like, I'm going to Mexico, and you're either with me or you're not. And I can't I don't have time for this in decisiveness that you always do. I need to know where you're at. Damn right. And once Gina, like she hears that, too, like Thelma like hears that, and it's like, Oh, shit, I do do that. I like You can see that way on her. Yeah. And then, yeah, when the money is stolen, like, you know, and there's even a line somewhere where Gina even says, Well, we have to do this because we're on her way to Mexico like she's committed. She's exactly that. Gareth is beautiful. I love that idea, because it really is. And then by the time we get to the end, they're. They're matched. Exactly. Exactly. Matched in, like, courage and all that. That's just. This is why the movie won the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay, because that's like it's a perfectly structured screenplay in that way. That what I'm saying that grass like when they cross that's at the exact center of the movie, like the exact center of the runtime. And then they get the whole and then we're getting going on this uptick of like, look how fun it is to rob gas stations and all that, you know, all that stuff. And they're having having fun in that way with also, while danger is looming, I mean, Susan Surette God, just right away. I love when she's like like this movie's been big influence on my own writing, too, particularly the thing I've written and, you know, want to work on next. I stole a lot of quotes from it, like on purpose. But when she's, you know, she's a waitress and she's pouring coffee for this girl, she's like, You're a little too young to be smoking our end, that it's just jump cuts to her smoking like talking on the phone. I love that. It's so funny. Like just that little stuff. And then, you know, the first few because this is like a movie that a ten year old probably shouldn't watch. So like the first few times I watch this, I didn't get like her meticulousness how she packed in plastic bags and the OCD stuff. And then when you pair that to what happened in Texas, you're like, Oh, this is someone who's just trying to deliberately have a lot of control in her life like that. This is what I mean. Like, there's so much depth to the movie, like so much and you can go down, you know, so many different avenues of it or like, I don't know, whatever officially did happen down there in Texas, it's like one of the great mysteries of the movie. It doesn't need to be answer. But when she kills Harlan, it's like she's taken it out on someone else. Maybe, you know, not on yet. All the way on him, but that's a great kill. You know, there are some justified deaths in this movie, I'll say that. Some where you're like, You know what? I agree with that choice. And Harlan is one such person. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Cut a fucking scene. That's a tough scene to watch, but this is kind of a I'm perfect. Paraphrasing Sarandon here, but she said she was surprised when the movie came out that a lot of people thought Louise was very strong and very determined because she said she played her as unraveling, not as strong. She said, I played her you know, she's been perceived as this fiercely strong character, but I was playing her scared. I was playing her as fragile. And I frankly find it ironic that we have been seen as being these ball busting icons for female liberation. So that's just back to that's a direct quote from her. They just really didn't think it was going to take off in this way. But again, that like we talk about chemistry so much on this podcast, not relating to romance and this isn't like these to love each other clearly but you just like I mean this define the way they play these characters kind of defined how they were perceived through their careers, like Susan Sarandon has been known. It's like, yeah, ever since, like kind of a tough, tough woman. And she talks about this too, like it. It changed my life. This is how people think I am. Louise Yeah, and it's just crazy. It's just crazy to think about that way. But yeah, all to say that I love her, I love them both so much in this movie. Just so much. And Geena Davis isn't in as much anymore, but it's always good to see her whenever I see her, when I'm rewatching something or in something new, I'm like, Oh God, I love her. They they what they really do is like, I mean, it's just it's they're just as human as it can get. And like, that's what we're always like any type of performance that we always talk about. And it's not just us in the pod. It's like we as human beings recognize when we're when we're being reflected our own experiences back at us. Yeah, for better or worse. Yeah, yeah, for better or worse. And we get their friendship so well, and it's is funny that Susan's friend talks about that because I wrote like, we can clearly understand why Louise is frustrated with Thelma and we get what they both need. Louise needs freedom and knows that Thelma needs freedom too, but she doesn't know it. And so, like, that's sort of like that until that graph changes. Yeah, and now they but they both need each other for different things. Oh yeah. And at different points. But ultimately that need from each other never gets outgrown. Like they're just, they're just on that level with each other. And that's, that's the beauty of the movie is that we understand these women and therefore we understand ourselves. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that's really well-said. And again, it just it lends itself, you know, because you I don't know if you ever talked about this on the podcast really, but one of your definitely one of your biggest movie pet peeves is I should let you describe it, your stupid decision thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like, yeah, bad decisions are made by both of these characters, like leaving that straight up hustler alone in the room with every cent you have is stupid, But you understand how they make these decisions. You understand how she's in some sort of post-coital bliss perceived that you get all these things. So they may be dumb decisions, but it's like, Oh shit, I get it. And your instead like it in dear, it endears us to them more than makes us like mad at them. We're not like, Oh God, you idiot. It's not like that at all. Even how Thelma gets outside, like I get it at the bar, like I get how she got outside. It's not her fault. It's not her fault at all. And that's why there's not a lot of judgment from Louise. There's a little bit up front, but then that all kind of goes away. But yeah, it's just all of that stuff. Well, I mean, this is this is what's so beautiful and great about the movie is like there's that scene in the diner where they're they're getting away from the immediacy of what's just happened. And Gina Davis, like she's crying bloody beat up post what's just happened. And she goes, Oh my God, this is my fault. Or she goes, What are you saying? This is my fault? And Susan's brain doesn't answer the weight of that silence. This is beautiful because it's it's one of those weird gray areas where, of course, it's not her fault that this guy was a fucking animal and decided to do what he did. Right. There's never a defining line, but watching two people deal with the realities of their circumstances without judgment and going forward. This is why these aren't stupid decisions, because these are human decisions that people make with the best of intentions. And then awful things happen that are not their fault. They get in the way. So like that perfect example of like post-coital bliss that Geena Davis is in, right? You know, she just trust this guy because of this whole entire beautiful moment that they've had. Yeah. And then when the money is gone, you see, like. Like Luis tells her, like, Oh, my God, Thelma, how could you be so stupid? That's a human reaction to have to your friend. Oh, my God, You've done this again. Yeah. How can you be so naive? How can you just do this? And you see it on Thelma? She like she wears it as if like, Oh, my God, I can't believe I've done this again. Yeah, but instead of crumbling down, she stands the difference. Yeah. Yeah. This is. I did like, I didn't realize how, like, important this little, like, graph cross-section. I had a distinct thing to talk about this whole motel sequence for the series. Yeah. Yeah. Because in the beginning, when she's scolded for making a stupid decision or a naive decision, she crumbles to it. Yeah. Yeah. And this is the one where she rises above it. Yeah. And either way, the fact that two people who know each other are calling each other out on this stupid decision that one has made is like. Like sitting with that is the justification for why you have it. So it to me, the thing I don't like about stupid decisions is when there's no justification, we're just doing it because I get to get point A to point B, but this is dealing with it and being like, Oh, and now what? Now what do we do? And no matter what, it's what the important thing about these two characters doesn't matter that you made a stupid decision. We're. I'm still with you. Yeah, we're in it together. So let's we're in it together, let's say. But the thing that I'm not going to call you out on something like that. Like. Like how could you leave the money? Yeah, I mean, I'd be pissed. Yeah, I'd be pissed, too. I mean, come on, let's. Let's be clear. So, yeah, in addition to those two, and we will get to, like, the movie as we go. We're just having a more. We're already in it. Lose discussion. Yeah, that's what I mean. But I mean, in addition to the two brilliant lead performances, we have some supporting performances by a handful of guys. Harvey Keitel I'm going to talk about first. Yeah. And this is, you know, he was in Ridley's first movie, The Duelists. So this is them teaming back up. And I mean, his performance is hell. It's just really like he's really understanding. He's really forgiving. And I love that scene he has with that waitress played by Lucinda Jenny, how like they're on a first name basis and he's like, You behave yourself like, I don't know. I just I love it. I love him in it. And I have kind of a fun fact about him that I did not know until I explored the Criterion features a little bit. But yeah, I love Harvey Keitel in this. He was in a good place in his career right now. He got nominated for an Oscar this year for Bugsy. This is every time I watch Harvey Keitel, I'm just blown away like this guy is just he's so good. And yeah, he's just this genuine guy who I think like, like in the story needs this guy. This story needs someone who is after these women who actually believes them. Yeah, yeah. They're the only ones that are like saying like Thelma and Louise throughout the movie are like Luis particularly is the one saying, we don't have proof, you don't have this. She has an understanding of the law that makes me believe something bad happened in Texas. Very bad that forced her to get a grasp of the law like this. But yes, yes. And she's the only one who's actually if, from the script perspective, putting the stakes on the situation. Mm hmm. Because outside of like some of the FBI guys like Harvey Keitel is one that, like, he'll drop sometimes to like this. And I'm trying to help you, but if you don't give me anything like this isn't going to be good, right? But Thelma's the one who's like, throw in like, this won't work. That won't work. We're fucked. This is why. And. And that's how we get. That's why. I mean, like, logistically, this movie makes sense because every bit of everything, step by step, is accounted for. And. But Harvey Keitel is such a perfect character to have as the guy who's leading this charge is on their side. That's what's so cool about it. Yeah, that's what's so cool is how sympathetic he is. And it's not like seen so many movies with like, yeah, the lead guy on this case is going to be an asshole about it. But no, he like understands and he wants them to come in and I mean, you know, we talked in our latest episode about why I talked about why this is what, how and why. It's one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. And he could be funny in it, too. Like some of the ways that he does things, like when he's talking to Louise on the phone and he goes, Right now you're just wanted. No one's charged the murder, you're just wanted for questioning. Yeah. However, Thelma is wanted for armed robbery. It like it just cuts out. You ceases to point her like, Yep, you. It's just the way he just kind of pauses. There's that little beat. It's. It's funny, but yeah, I do love how sympathetic he is. And it's not like over the top. It is sympathy, but he really seems to care. And I it's a different some of you expect from like, you know, gruff, tough Harvey Keitel this is the next year he was in Bad lieutenant, which is like, whoa. And you know Reservoir Dogs. So, yeah, you almost feel that from his side. Like there's that hope like that, that freedom is actually if you actually just do what he says that everything will actually be okay. Yeah and but probably won't Yeah I mean who's who's to tell the way that she games it out that Louise games it out is I mean you know they're there. I don't know it maybe would not have been kind to them if they turned themselves in. One cool little fact that I found this is crazy. This is I'm watching the deleted scenes and the extended scenes from the movie. And there's one featuring he's like at home with his wife and they're waking up in bed and he's kind of talking to her about the case. And the wife is played by Catherine Keener. Oh, I was like, Whoa. So that's definitely the earliest performance I've seen from her. So I thought that was interesting. Just a little side note there. So now we're going to get to some some love interests because. Yes, Michael Madsen shows up this old Jimmy, and they offered him a lot of different roles, including J.D. the Assaulter. And he's like, I really you know, or rather including Harlan the Assaulter. And he's like, really don't want to do that. And he wisely held out for Jimmy, and I just love him. Ridley Scott said he wanted to hire, like, a believable shit kicker guy. I think he's like, you just you really believe that this guy is the way that he is. And I love when we see him, you know, the production design of his room. He's got like, that speed bag. Yeah, the couch guitars. It's like he's smoking. Of course there's a dog there. Just. Oh, I love Jimmy. I really loved him. I love him in this movie. There's a there's a really cool like, Oh, I get to use my favorite word, juxtaposition position. Every girl you can imagine based off the production design that this is the way this, this guy is like a no, like he's a nobody. No, He's just like, yeah, jobs, job, you know, job to job. But he's so cool. Oh yeah. Like in his in the way that he presents. This is Michael Madsen. Cool Like that's just it's just kind of who he is especially at this age he was that but so you place that level of what he's giving you, but the reality of his life isn't matched very well with that. And then ultimately, you know, he's really just trying to get love. He's just trying to get love from Susan Sarandon. He's giving up everything for this ring. And it kind of really like boils him down to who he is and he doesn't get what he wants. And I, I love characters that don't get what they want because we get to watch them fight for and fall for it. And that's what happens to him. Yeah. And he keeps his Michael Madsen cool, basically. Like, you know, she's she, she says, No, I do love that. It is a softer side to the Michael Madsen persona. I'm not saying like these guys are weaklings. I'm not saying that at all. Like Jimmy throws some stuff around, but he's also very vulnerable. And I like that, you know, this isn't this is not Mr. Blond, I'll put it that way. Yeah. No, not at all. This is more this is more free, Willy. Free will if he's great. You if he's for. Oh, yes, I do. I wrote about Michael Madsen on my blog several years ago and I said Free Willy was one of his essential roles because you're like, That was a special role. Yeah. You're like, What the fuck, Mr. Blond? It's like some, you know, foster dad, like, what's going on? And he's good in it. Elvis The second one went, It's just like Elvis. Where'd you get a name? Like Elvis Love Match? And I love all the things you said like that, that Central. We keep going back to this, you know, motel room scene. But that whole thing from when they show up with and, you know, he's like in the lobby and he's flown there and clothes are peaches and everything. I love that as a magic word to when they leave that hotel after the money's been stolen. Yeah, that's 20 minutes like that. So that's a long time. Yeah. That great fight, that great argument, and then that great send off, which is lesson. They see each other in that diner. Oh, God. It's just so, so believable. And speaking of how brilliant the script is, like, it's it's just perfect that you actually the one time we separate Thelma and Louise and they're both dealing with men. They're both dealing with them in really different ways. Yeah. Once having one rely. Yeah. One saying hello and, and, and they both need that for different reasons. Yeah. Oh, God. It's just fucking great. That's just fucking brilliant. I know. I love. This is why I love it. The structures. One reason why I love it, but it's a big reason of it. Like it. All the characters are moving with the narrative, like everything's working together. And then maybe the most memorable thing that come out of Thelma and Louise was this kid showing up to this role, was going around town, this part of JD and this movie walks this kid with his shirt off named Brad Pitt. And a star was born a literal star making performance. I don't even know if they really have many of these anymore where the dude is like not in the movie much, but he every time I watch it, he's fucking electric. He just, you know, he just burns through the screen and you're like, Damn. I mean, and he's so young. He's so young and he is so good as a, you know, hitchhiking hustler who was young, Thelma and Sweetser off her feet and takes takes off with all of her money, takes the money and runs goddamn does he ever. But yeah, Brad Pitt is JD. Let's just talk about him. I mean, he especially for a guy that, you know, in his early part of his career, teeter totter between good performance and bad performance. Yeah, this is a good one. Like, this is like he, he, he knew how to be that type of charming, rugged, like he, he balances sensitivity and charm with the reality of his. Like, all like we don't see him perform a bank robbery, but like, when he actually admits to who he is and what he does, like, this dynamic changes all of a sudden. Yeah, because now we just know this information about him and we're like, Oh, you're not like that lost, rugged cowboy just looking for like, Oh, no, you're a little seedy. It just does something. And you believe it about him. Oh, we've it about him. And it's the way he sells it in the way that he talks about it. And, you know, he's kind of dumb, too. Yeah, that's That was another thing that followed Brad Pitt around forever is that he's so good at playing these, like, slightly dumb characters or kind of like, like his character in Seven isn't necessarily dumb, but He's like, definitely like Brody. And I think that reputation follow Brad Pitt around. It's like, No, this guy in real life is actually really smart. Yeah. And you get that dumbness, though, when He gets caught by Harvey Keitel. Yeah. Like, basically it's like, Hey, I know what the fuck happened, and you know that. I know. He's like, okay, well, yeah, He goes, Yeah, okay. If we're being real, smacking them around with his hat, I love that take you off the table. But it's also the chemistry between Geena Davis and Brad Pitt. Oh, my God. It takes two to tango, as they say. Yes. And the chemistry between Geena Davis and Brad Pitt is just like, really off the charts. And it's there's actually one of my favorite fucking moments. I absolutely love this scene where they they're driving and they pass Brad Pitt again. And then Geena Davis looks at Susan Sarandon. It starts like puppy Dog. Like, Oh, yeah, It was like, she's like, Yeah, I love it. I love that moment. I thought that was just such a great, like female moment. But as soon as they're on the screen together, it is light it up. Oh, yeah. And Brad Pitt is just he just he works really, really well in that type of role at that time. Yeah. And you can kind of tell while he is great with Geena Davis, Slash Thelma Louise just has him fucking figured out like she knows she's seen this type of guy before. She and she's like, No, get out of here. And I got I love that. I love him. They're all in the car together and tell Thelma's it's like going through her life. It's like, Well, I've only ever been with Daryl and Jade. He's like, I'm sorry. It's. Yeah, You get married really young, Miss Thelma. Well, I. He's kind of, you know, I think we'd already been going out for years when we got married. How? Four years? I never been with anybody by now. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, if you don't mind me saying so, it sounds like a real asshole. It's okay. He is an asshole. So funny. But yeah, I mean, she's been. She got with Daryl so young that, of course, someone like J.D. comes along and shows her a little tension. But then, yeah, the Brad Pitt, he. They're so good together, the chemistry so good. But then that performance does keep going with that seems Harvey Keitel, which must have been like scary for young Brad Pitt. You're in there with Harvey Pitt. God, I love it. Yeah. So goodness. And I think you have made a good point about the way that Luis has got to figure it out. I think he does too, for her. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's Mama bear. I'm not going to cross her, you know, It's like she's the one that I need permission for to be in the car. Yeah. You know, I clearly, I can get what I need to get from Thelma, but Louise is, like, the one, and he's all neo southern charming about it. Right? And like Miss Little Miss Louise, he waited till Louise was out of that room before he knocked on the door. He knew what he was doing exactly like he. He knows or something. I love that one scene where they're driving and everything, and. And he goes, this Miss Louise, like there is those cops are up ahead. Yeah. And she just veers off the fucking road. Oh, it's great. This is the earliest movie I've seen him in Kasi like Johnny Suede. Cool World. That was. Oh, Johnny Suede. Johnny Suede. Jesus. God, I haven't seen that. That was also 91, but I don't think I've seen that probably since 91. But yeah, and then it's always a good time to talk about Brad, especially young Brad. But this is this performance just so legendary, scintillating, scintillating baby. Oh, God, is it ever incendiary? But we're getting these words that your boys pulling out right here. All good, all related to heat on fire. Yeah, I love it. But we're going to end our cast discussion talking about the great Christopher McDonald. Oh, Jesus. So what do you mean? Oh, Jesus. We haven't talked about him. We haven't mentioned him at all. I just said it is like we talk about it forever. I don't know why. Hello? Hello. Wow, moron. Good for Happy Gilmore. Oh, my God. God damn it, Homer. God dammit! Jesus Christ. Just stay out of my way. You'll pay. Listen to what I say. I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast. God, the perfect storm to fucking put me down. This is. This is the only reason why I want to do this episode. This is my shining moment right here. It's this Christmas, baby. So who is Jeanie Davis's real life ex-boyfriend? And she recommended really the role? Yep. Yep. And she recommended for recommended him for the role. He had a great, you know, still working relationship and friendship. She can't even talk on the commentary during his scenes because she's laughing so hard. She's like, This is the funniest. Just still some of the funniest shit I've seen. Daryl was written to be like that, like a goof. And the writer says that, you know, everyone admits that, but he just sent it all the way up and improvised so many things that really kept it. And Ridley was like, Yeah, go for it. I mean, my my favorite early bit from him is falling in the fucking driveway. That was an accident. He fell and then he was just supposed to get in the car and drive off, but he fell and then improvised all that, you know. God dammit, Homer. Yeah, but three, three, gutter. And just the way he's always, you know, God dammit, doing that and never paying attention to her watching the football game or Harvey Keitel was never his character was not supposed to laugh at Darryl. He wasn't. He's supposed to be like straight. And they kept doing take after take, and Keitel just kept breaking. So they left it in and they're like, Whatever, Just keep it in. Oh, God, love it. Yeah. It humanizes everyone. Oh, yeah. But let's just be real. Like, I think I saw this on the Chris Mac episode. Darryl's not in many scenes in the movie. No, he doesn't have much dialog. As a matter of fact, some of his, like, line to rivers are just the words. What? Yeah. What? Yeah. Like what she calls you. That's Selma. Hello. It's. It's. It's so good he does it. So I'll just say this low because he. Because, because everything is like now. Thelma. Yeah, Thelma. Thelma is like now I leave for work and you take completely above your senses. They're all calm and down. Please don't get so mad. I can explain. Okay. See, Louisa, Hold on, hold on, hold on. Cameron, We dance and he picket dancing, knocks the bar loose. Chandler's got it. Guy going up for the bar out of it. Time for us. We were just going to stay there and, you know, fish hang out stuff, and we'll just be gone one more day and then we'll be home one night. No, you won't. You'll be back today. You have to get your butt back here, Thelma. Now, God damn it. You just understand. Like this guy is like his eyes are so bug eyes united every single scene. Like it's just a fucking actor that just knows exactly where he's coming from in every single scene. And then it just. It plays in the moment and it's you can't take your eyes off of them in every single scene. Yeah, having definitely plays is a good word to describe it, because Ridley Scott to shoot with two cameras, he will often operate one of those cameras and every time it was a Daryl seeing a Christopher McDonald scene, they couldn't use the coverage of the camera. Ridley was operating because he would just die laughing. And he's and he admitted he goes, I'm not an easy laugh. But this to me is just some of the funniest shit I've seen. Like when they're in the police station, he goes, Huh? Hello? Hi. That's. That was all him It. Oh God I. Yeah. Huge fan. And still if someone was like what's, what's your favorite funny performance? I would say Darrell. Chris Mac is Darrell and Thelma Louise. I mean, I could do Oh God, I could do a whole podcast on it. Yeah. Was close because it could be with a nutcase like that. Yeah. And then Harvey just lets out that, like, belly laugh. It's so funny that, you know, Stephen Tobolowsky shows up as the head FBI agent. He's good. He's playing it so straight, and he's like, Women love that shit the way that Chris Mac just plays out. That is like, We love this, You look so funny. And then that final push in with him, you know, it's a lap near the goldfish lap and he's just sitting there like a bug guy, like, staring off into despair. It's just so great that day that Ridley gave him a moment to do that and that they included that. Like, that's what makes the characters feel fully formed, that movie feel fully formed. I just love that. I mean, again, I could talk about it forever, but yeah, I don't know. Every moment in Thelma and Louise Darrell is in is my favorite Thelma and Louise moment. It's like my favorite moment of the movie. I just love it. But like you said, not that much. But even the first fucking line, it's like. Thelma, What? I talk about hollerin like that, it's. Yeah, yeah. Skeezy. I guess that's why you're not the fucking carpet salesman. And he's like, Oh, yeah, be about it. God. God, I love him. Yeah. Chris Mack We could be here all day. Crew Let's talk about some of the crew and then I want to talk and then we'll get into some of the things we missed about the movie. But Hans Zimmer We mentioned Hans Zimmer. Yeah, big, big deal to Ridley Scott's movies. But this is Hans Zimmer will always say this is one of his favorite scores that he did. And I love that. It like feels like a Hans Zimmer score. But you go, Oh, he did the music for that. It just feels so big because, you know, it's long portions of this movie were to stare at these landscapes and the camera's going back and forth and their beautiful landscapes. So there's long montages of driving and it's his music that helped sell that. I love it. It's a great score. The I wrote down that the score at the very end when there the impending doom is about to happen. Yeah there's just there's not a lot of dialog and just a bunch of driving and if you were to take out that score because that score you just know through the music, it's pure manipulation. There is no way out, right? Yeah. Like you can feel it. It's all the music. Mm hmm. It's a fucking great score because it's great. But the cinematography by Adrian Biddle, he was only nominated for one Oscar, and it was for Thelma and Louise. And, I mean, these landscapes are stunning the way he frames like that beer bottle in the microwave like that looks really nice. Yeah. Again, I did buy the Criterion 4k of this. And, like, God, I mean, just those vistas and the magic hour conversations they'll have. Like they had that one shortly before the end and they're like, I just can't go back. Like in there talking outside in the way the magic hour's hitting them. It looks great. So yeah, the scene in the diner right after they kill Haaland. Yeah, Everything in that whole entire lead up of that scene, like when Susan Sarandon pulls over and throws up. Oh, God, Yeah. All of the lighting going on there is all the headlights from these different, like, big trucks, and they're all moving. We can't really, as an audience, kind of like latch onto anything because these lights just keep coming in. And like, I remember at one point cause it was going on for enough of a time, I'm like, this is such an interesting choice. Yeah, that this is the way that you wanted to communicate this level of shock, this disassociation that's happening with everything through just these, these truck lamps. But pure Ridley shit is weird. Ridley Scott behaves like Ridley Scott because he's Ridley Scott. And I actually I'm basically describing like, the fuck it all attitude to the way some scenes are depicted and extremis, if you will. So like during the attack scene, during the attack outside, if you look closely, those lights are movie lights like on movie stands like silver movie stage. And I was looking David I'm like, wait, those are just movie lights. So he like, doesn't care about covering that stuff up. I remember would they like, kick J.D. out and she like, reverses to get gas It reverses like so fast it pulls up to the Oh yeah. And it's like, why did you reverse? And then they reverse and there's just like, dude by himself, some bodybuilder. It's just like, are you like, it's like, yeah, Why? Why? Because it's pure Ridley shit. That's the type of stuff I'm talking about. But yeah, big trucks like it had to be the biggest trucks, the shiniest trucks. And he said, he's like, This is because I'm British and we don't have this stuff. So I wanted this to be like the biggest, like Americana movie possible. So, like, the bigger the truck, the more yeah, I wanted it to be the most American and I love all that, you know, It's just there's like motorcycles driving by, like in the desert, like, y it's just it's so fucking funny. So that's one aspect of the movie that I've always really, really liked. That's really cool. This I notice, like when we get towards the end, we're just driving with them throughout night and day. These are one the most poignant moments start to happen. Oh yeah. That like they these are the reveals of I know that this happened to you in Texas from Thelma to Louise, even though it's not really talked about after that. There's just a moment of recognition. Yeah, because at this point, they're just driving. Everything's already happened. And then the beautiful line where Geena Davis says, I feel awake and like, I've never felt this awake. Yeah, you're starting to understand this kind of going back to the beginning of the conversation, this shift that happens where we've been on this journey with these two people for this whole movie, I don't know how you really kind of obtained this level of understanding. This is just something only a movie could do where you're watching these beautiful landscapes go by the end. Now we're starting to get down to earth with these people, like a shift is happy. Like you're you're crazy, Louise. You've always been crazy, but you just haven't had a chance to express it, right? Like, there are all these things that are happening that we're getting to the absolute core of these people. And when all of a sudden like that shift happens, you believe it? Yeah, I just I think that's the biggest achievement of anything of the movie is how do we start from point A earn point B and earn it so well? Yeah, and that's how we started this conversation. I think that's for a reason that we keep harping back to it because it's like, you know, I've never felt this free, I've never felt this good. And so while they are deciding to end their lives or kind of going out on top like they feel, you know, it's like no matter what happens if we don't just keep going, things are going to get worse from here. So let's, you know, just keep going and I don't know. And then we and we found like in this whole expedition of crime or whatnot, even though that like the funniest thing is like the crime of Thelma ripping off the the gas station. Yeah. It's so innocent. And like, you know, she's even she's just like, so polite. Oh, everything about it. Like, I love how that whole entire scene is delivered on camera, Like the like the convenience store camera point of view, You know, I'm really sorry about it. Oh, that's the thing. I love how they're always apologizing. Right? Like, they're always apologizing for every little thing. And yes, they're committing a crime at the end of the thing. But like like there's nothing malicious about what's happening. And then the Harlan thing that was it deserves fucking, you know, like, oh, yeah, fuck you. Like, you know, you're you're seeing these women who are making these decisions and they're doing it for the benefit of one another. They're doing it for what's right. Yeah. For the other person that's noble. And like we get that and they've achieved a level of understanding about themselves and each other that just it, it's a very, very hard thing to do. But speaking of all that, one scene that we got to talk about is that cop scene where they put the cop in like a drunk. It's so good. And you know, that guy's name is Jason Begay is his is the actor's name. And he got he won that part because he cried in his audition and no one else had. And Ridley was like, It's yours. You got and gave him the part in the room and went, Oh, so like no one else took it. There. And that was his choice to kind of break down and cry. It's just so good. I love the way he plays that. I love that. Seats. Yeah they're apologizing. Don't like the way she even comes up to the car Oh wait actually when he gets out of the car she goes, Oh my God, he's a Nazi. So he's a Nazi in the way. He's just playing. He's like, Have how? How's go? And he's like 112 step out of the car, like, Yes. So you see this are tough guy that breaks down. I love that scene. Yeah it's it And even following the camera movements. Yeah. Yeah. It's so slow and like, methodical, like it's a I was like the entire cops scene. This is priceless. Like, from everything, the tone of it, the movement of it, what actually happens? No, Louie's like, shoot the radio, The police. Yeah, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah, The teller just comes up to the window and it's like, I'm really sorry about this. It's so easy. Yeah, I love it. Oh, yeah, That's a great scene. I mean, the truck, the explosion. I mean, my God, Fucking hilarious. That asshole. A total asshole, like, really, really gets what's covered, too. But that's. That's like, the biggest example of pure Ridley shit. That dude, it's like at the very end of the movie just blows up this massive tractor trailer that's like 18 wheeler. And as they're driving away, a second explosion happens. I love it. Oh, God, I love it. I love This is like sirens reaction to she's almost I don't think she says it, but she's like, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What's another funny thing about that robbery? That car. I've seen this in the theater twice. It gets huge laughs in the theater because she's like, Well, what did you say? And then it jump cuts to the security camera footage. So that's laugh one and then you get that she is verbal them saying what Brad Pitt's character says when he rob stuff. So it's like she's caught on to that so quickly. And I love that. It's such a it's so funny. Oh, God, she's great. Oh, they're all just great. They're all so great. But Oh, Gina, my Jean in the ending. Let's talk about the end. Yeah, they die. They do die. They do die. It's a it's a hero's death. A one can't really call. It's like, you know, tragedy. But tragedies end in heroic fashion sometimes. I love when they, like, think they've gotten away with it and the camera cuts and you see that fucking helicopter, like, creeping beside them. I mean, Ridley, like you just give up. Yeah, He gets in the helicopter and it's like, Oh my God, they're at the edge of the cliff and the thing does boom and shoots up and yeah, what a great, you know, great ending. One of the genuinely one of, the most iconic scenes, I think in movie history and which is one of the most iconic endings you can look up to even try to calculate how many movies or TV shows have ripped this off made parity that it's just been so many places and for good reason. It's iconic. It's what helps make the movie as special as it is. And I love I mean, there's such a roar, like, you know, when Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon are talking to each other, there's such this raw fear. Oh, yeah, but excitement. But love. Oh, yeah. When she's just like, Let's just do it. Let's just fucking do it. Like, I don't. You just get it and. You can see, like. Like they're terrified. But as long as they're together and they both just know that to, like, they both just kind of like, this is the only way out for us in this moment. Oh, God. And then Harvey Keitel, that slow motion shot of him just trying futilely it is Scott is one arm up and his suit is like flailing in the back because he just doesn't want this to happen. Like he never like this is. And he said the entire time, this is what's going to happen. Like these girls are going to be in trouble. I love how he's always defending them. He's like, don't do this. You know, this goes it gets and everything turned way up. He's always like defending them, like, don't send the guys out there. I love it. Oh, God. Makes you got to take me there. Know Well, cannot do so. I'm the only one choosing to do it to me. You know, to me, there's nothing you could do for me now. I don't want anybody losing their heads. You know what happens? Volume gets turned way up, and the next thing you know, these girls are going to get shot. It's as famous as movie endings. Get like even if you don't even if you haven't seen the movie, you probably see, you know, you like know that image? Hello, trivia. Oh, Patrick Swayze's mom, Patsy, Patsy, Swazi, that is who taught Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon how to dance for the bar scene, for the line dancing bar scene. I thought that was cool. I didn't know that. Oh, wow. They unfortunately had to shoot the assault scene twice. Not like back to back twice. Like they did it. And they had to pick that up like weeks later. Just, you know, it happens sometimes, though. Maybe a performance is a little off key or something, then go that well. But they said that was tough having to go back to that a second time because, I mean, you don't do something like that ideally, like you put everything into it. So, yeah, having to go back and do that twice, it just I only mention that just to commend the performances yet again, because that is not an easy thing to do. Of course, great scene when they're like, of course in a rush, they're always in a rush. Everything's always moving. When Susan Sarandon up and Geena Davis is outside of the pool, you know, and she's listening to her Walkman. She was supposed to hear the the car horn honking and get up and go to the car. So she was she said she was listening to Prince so loudly, like actually that she could not hear the horn honking. So as Susan Sarandon runs up, they just went with that in the moment. And she, you know, pulls the Walkman off and go. Thelma, Geena Davis said, You scared the shit out of me. I have never been that scared. Like, so that was real. That's all real. Just like, Oh, that's great. Yeah. Just like Christopher McDonald falling over in the driveway. That's all real. And they did, you know, that take. And then they try to a normal take quote unquote without him falling. And Ridley's like, yeah, we're done the first takes in the movie let's, let's go let's move on. And that's like, yeah, that's great. It's also great directors having that confidence to know, like, I'm going to do two cameras. We're not going to do coverage, we're just going to do these two cameras, but they're going to be in Masters and that's it. Okay, moving on. That's great. Yeah, Yeah. Well, so are some of these Oscars. Real quick, I want to know your just honest to God thoughts. This is nominated for six Oscars. Very, very tough year. So 1991 is the last year that one movie won Oscars for best picture, best director, best actor, best actress and best screenplay, the Big Five. And that is The Silence of the Lambs. Yeah. So if Thelma Louise wins any of those awards, because it was nominated for most of those if it wins any of those, it disrupts that big five status. And I'm not going to lie as part of like an as an Oscar historian nerd. I love that. That's a big five movie because Silence of the Lambs is like not an Oscar movie in the fact that it won is awesome. But Robert De Niro was actually nominated for Cape Fear. Yeah, that's what I fucking told him. And that's why that movie's awesome movie Rocks. So Thelma Louise not nominated for best Picture very stupidly, which is it's just like, ridiculous. They had to get in Beauty and the Beast. Their Beauty and the Beast had to be the first animated movie ever nominated for Best Picture. Where where Ridley Scott is nominated for best director. But it's like I actually probably think Thelma Louise is a better directed movie. I don't know, though, but I want Silence of the Lambs to have that Big five. It's the same way like Best Actress is impossible because you have Jodie Foster winning. It's her second Oscar in three years. But Jean, so that means Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon lose. Geena Davis never won. One says Cancel each other out. That's actually probably what happened. But yeah, I mean, it's Harvey Keitel is not nominated for Thelma and Louise. He is nominated for Bugsy. Yeah. Best screenplay. Best Original screenplay. This is so hard. This is really tough. I don't Delman Louise is the one that wins. But also Boys in the Hood is nominated. John Singleton And that's one of my favorite screenplays ever. So just those two right there, I'm like, Damn that, it's tough. What won Best score? Oh, Beauty and the Beast. Yeah, it wasn't even nomination discourse. That's. Yeah, Beauty and the Beast. This is also the year. It's not only Boys in the Silence of the Lambs, it's the year of JFK. Another favorite movie of mine, which I love, which cleaned up in the technical awards. So it wins cinematography and it wins film editing, beating Thelma Louise for both. And you know what? It deserves it. That's what's tough. Like it deserves those awards. So just a really hard year. This is also the year Terminator two. I was just going to say hard year. I mean, it won best sound. It won best visual effects and best makeup. You're talking about Terminator two. Yeah, it should have won for original score. It should have been nominated. Well, no, not not Terminator two. No, that's not it's based too heavily off the original Terminator score. I disagree. Whatever. No, I'm just kidding. It's tough year. I mean, that's a tough year. Oscars Used to be beautiful, man. Listen, he's the best director, I think is a better lineup. Jonathan to me wins for Silence of the Lambs. John Singleton, Boys in the Hood, Barry Levinson, Bugsy Oliver Stone, JFK, Ridley Scott, Thelma Louise. And that's tough. Those are at the top, we should say. You know, I mentioned it earlier, but Ridley Scott does not have an Oscar for he got close for Gladiator, but Steven Soderbergh won for Traffic. I agree with that. They had a chance in 2001 and they shit the bed. They gave it to Ron Howard for A Beautiful Mind that movie was a thing in 2001. It no one else was in the running. Frankly, for best director picture and movie really hasn't aged well I think for a number of reasons, but God, they should have given Black Hawk Down Ridley Scott's director. They really should have. Will he be nominated for? I really thought he's going to be nominated for The Martian for director. He wasn't. I thought so, too, because he won for Best Comedy musical, The Golden Globes. Yeah, which was so fucking stupid. Will it be nominated for Napoleon? I don't know. We're going to see. I'm excited to see Napoleon. Of course, he's already said that he has like a four and a half hour cut of it. But there, you know, he's releasing a two and a half hour cut. I'm excited. It actually it looks good. Like I don't really watch previews that much. So I'd just watch it, you know, kind of looks like my eyes have opened, but I'm excited. I think Joaquin Phenix is going to do good and he's been talking about this for a long time. Ridley Scott has. And you know, this is Stanley Kubrick's baby. Yeah but it's not like his script or anything, is it? No, no. It's just what he wanted to do. It is the thing he always wanted to make. Yeah, it was what he always wanted to do. So I'm excited for that. I mean, Gladiator, too. I know. Are you. Have we talked about it? Are you like Gladiator fan? I liked the movie for what it was, but I was not one of those people that were like, Oh, this is like the best movie ever. Like something you still know. Like some people still like, talk about that movie in that conversation. It's like a Godfather, Like they're like gladiators up there. I'm like, I get what you are. It's just it's not for me. However, I mean, I'm saying that, but there's like 40 minutes of on salable brilliant fucking action in that film that Oh yeah, that is unquestionably magnificently done. But a lot of the other stuff, I'm like, okay, okay, but I'm not talking shit again. That part of the issue with that is that it won best picture and I don't think it should have and I hold it. I do that and hold stuff against it and that's just my You're a grudge. I do hold a grudge. Ah, yeah. Stupid. Yeah. Final thoughts on Thelma Louise? Yep. I loved the song that was playing on the radio as they were driving in the night at the at the age of 37 song. Oh, it just screams nineties and yeah, I just really vibed with that song because I'm about to turn 37 and this song is all about basically at the age of 37 was like when I actually turned my life around that, that lyrically that's what that song is. I don't know if it's actually called at the age of 37, but that's a recurring verse. And I just remember I go, Oh my God, this speaks to me really well right now. But then also just it's perfect for the characters. It's like, is this is the turning point of their lives? And it doesn't specify what age they're at in the movie, but I think it's more the idea that this was when I actually took my life into my own hands. Oh, yeah. And it became this beautiful, wild thing for Thelma and Louise. Yeah. It's such a celebration of life, this movie. It's a celebration. It's what it is. Yeah. Yeah, It's a of, like, actually living. Everything's really about your fellow person, like Into the Wild Talks about this a little bit where Christopher McCandless says, you know, like at the end of his life he realized that all of this adventuring and all of this and that it didn't really matter if it wasn't someone to share it with or share it with. Yeah, that's like basically the summation of his life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and he realized that these are the two that did this together. Like they shared it with each other. And that graph that you talk about so beautifully expresses that and it's just, it's, it's a note perfect fucking movie, man. I could watch this movie endlessly and undoubtedly I will. It's one that I have seen a lot and I totally we got we got caught up at looking at like two categories for the Oscars. I do want to call something out because this is like, this is just really, really cool. Thelma and Louise is the most recent film to two actors nominated for either best actor or best actress. That's wild. So that hasn't happened in 32 years. That's Crazy. And you know, actor the last time it happened was Amadeus in 1984 for actress. The time before Thelma Louise, it was Terms of Endearment. And usually someone wins like, yeah, Amadeus F Murray Abraham won Terms of Endearment Sherman Shirley MacLaine won. So the canceling out I don't know. Usually people win in supporting actor and actress. This is extremely common. The doubling up of nominees in supporting actor. It happened in 2000 this just recently. 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021. That's 22. So it always happens. And in supporting actress, it literally happened last year and Jamie Lee Curtis won. So it happens a lot in that. But Thelma Louise, the last one for Leeds, that's crazy. Yes, I know. You realize that. That's pretty wild. So I just want to throw that out there. I love the Oscars, even though they let me down often all the time. All the time. What are you watching? You want me to go first? I haven't got those in quite some time. No, you go first, then. I don't think there's probably one parallel that could actually be a little bit more apropos for this movie is it is a movie that I actually been wanting to watch for rewatch for a little bit now. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Oh, wow. That's damn. That's so cool. You know, my dad just rewatched that and it's been on me to check it out because he was like it had been decades for him. And he he has a completely new relationship with it now. I mean, he's always liked it. He's like in love with it now. And I've literally had that on my, like very short list of movies I need to check out. So when we are done, that is what I will put on. But tell me what you're talking about it, because I remember, you know, this being like it's such a Paul Newman fan. Yeah, I watched that movie for the first time in college once Same, and I really liked it and I was like, Oh man, this is like one of those movies where its legacy still works. Like it's still it wasn't just defined to its time. And, and, and I've always since then, I have always wanted to rewatch it. Oh so you'd only seen it the once I've only see it the once so you're not you're deviating We usually don't do this. We usually talk about movies we just watch and you're talking about something you're going to be watching. What are you going to be watching? The new name of the podcast. Yeah. What are you going to be watching? Yeah, we should do. We should turn it into a thing. We'll watch it and do like a you know, we should do 2030 minute bonus episode. I think you know what we should do. We should because we both haven't seen it do it. We should do a commentary as well. No, that won't be fair because we will be watching it too hard. Yeah That's what I, what I think I'd rather do, because that is what would happen and actually do. This is fucking crazy. I've been looking for a movie like this since we started the Pod. I've wanted this exact scenario. Wow. So this is what it's going to be. Okay, here's what we're going to do at some point. I wanted to basically start the pod. And we can do this. You know, we can split it up with editing like a week apart or something, but basically record like what we remember of the movie and what we know of the movie and be like, Yeah, I remember this happens, I remember this, and then go watch it. And then immediately after we watch it record a pop or a proper podcast about it, and then I'll edit the two together to be like, Holy shit, I didn't remember that. So I think we should do that here, Dog. Yeah, Dog. Well, well, we'll figure out Butch Cassidy, but we will have fun with it, so I will not be watching it tonight. That's cool though, that you're talking about something that you are going to be watching because it promoted this conversation. So that'll be one because I remember asking you like, what are really good like quote unquote classic movies you've only seen once. I ask what ages ago? And you reply back with a few. And I was like, All right, I've seen those a few times. But yeah, it'll be this one. All right, cool. You're welcome to generate ideas here. Mine? Yeah. What's your. My. What are you watching? Yeah, my. What are you watching? It's a bunch. It's kind of a I have one specifically, but I have been on an Akira Kurosawa binge that is unlike just any. I actually had to get control and, like, stop it because I was burning through them one day, and they are. It's just it's a great binge. He made 30. I'm going to do all of them. I had seen nine and I've already like I'd seen Seven Samurai Rashomon, but I'm rewatching those I'd seen Yojimbo and Stray Dog, but I just want to watch all of them. So I wanted to kind of call out two in particular, but you know, because they're all on Criterion and it's amazing. He oftentimes goes back to like Seven Samurai, you know, Rashomon. These are ones that take place ages ago. But things like I Live in Fear is a modern day postwar thriller where one guy, Toshiro Mifune, he's just so, so good. I mean, one of the great time collaborations and he plays an old man and it's they gave him a bunch of old age makeup. And this dude just wants to leave Japan, like flee to South America because. He is terrified that another bomb is going to be dropped on Japan and he's just like fucking terrified. And his family, they all think he's crazy because they're like, he, you know, he owns a factory and he wants like pick up and just move everyone. And he's like, I've made it so that everyone can come. All my children, your wives, even your mistresses, everyone can. But we have to go. And they're all like, The war is done, no one's going to drop another bomb. And it's just that. And it was a really good paranoid thriller that, you know, I did some research on it. Kurosawa was like, there were a lot of people like this in Japan after, you know, the bombs. And I never really considered that perspective. You know, Oppenheimer's been around a lot this summer, so I've been thinking about that. So I really wanted to mention that I live in fear. And then very briefly, another one that I never seen was Throne of Blood, which is his remake. And that is without question, this has been brought up on the podcast before, without question, the best adaptation of Shakespeare. I've ever seen for a movie. No question. I had heard that. But I just like funny that it has to be a movie in Japanese too, for me to make that leap. But I totally got I just got it. And it was I mean, the end. It's like I had seen parts of the end. They're shooting arrows at the Sunni and I had seen clips of that. But just seeing an it context, Oh man. So it's a great binge. Like his movies are more they're funnier than Birdman. I'm having to read, but there's like a lot of humor in them. So yeah, I just love it. So that's my what are you watching? Just kind of a touch based on my Kurosawa binge. I'll keep people posted as we go here. Nothing to do with Thelma Louise, But you know. But sometimes that's how it goes. We ever seen the movie The Bodyguard with Kevin Costner? I have seen that with Whitney Houston. Yojimbo means Bodyguard. So it's like the same thing. They he takes her to a movie and they watch Yojimbo and she's like, How many times have you seen that? And he's like, I've seen it like 22 times. He has a samurai sword that he cuts with. So I'm saying this Kurosawa influence is just everywhere. Bill Nighy just got nominated for an Oscar for Living that was a remake of a Kurosawa movie. Akira from like 1952. It's like his influence is crazy, you know? The Magnificent Seven is a remake of Seven Samurai. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, I love it. I love it. All right. That was it. That was a lot of fun. I've been wanting to do Thelma and Louise for ages ever since we started, so let us know your thoughts. Oh If someone has not seen Thelma Louise and you're watching it because of us, please let us know. I love to hear. I love when we hear that stuff. That's so, so cool. Hopefully this is an easy to find if you've seen it. If you are a collector of physical media, it's one of the best. 4K is one of the best criterion's I've bought in ages. Let us know what you think at WUKY w underscore podcasts, Twitter, Instagram, letterboxd. We're there. As always. Thank you so much for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie at Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas Dose Dotcom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What are you watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and box at w aiw underscore podcast 1998 25 years ago. That is a wild statistic. Next time we're listing our favorite films from 1998, a controversial movie year. Thanks much in part to how badly the Oscars screwed it up. Stay tuned.