Alex reviews Michael B. Jordan’s “Creed III." Later, he breaks down every boxing scene in the “Creed” franchise, discusses “Raging Bull’s” impact on the boxing genre, and lists the most realistic boxing scenes in movies. Nick is here too.
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Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Winter out. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How you doing there, superstar? I am very confused. What the fuck am I doing here with you? You. You. You called me to tell me to fire up the mikes for no reason. We did not have this plan. Damn right. What the fuck am I doing here? Well, I asked you. I was like, okay, I have a mini soad idea. Now, normally I would just do these by myself because I know it's a movie you haven't seen yet. A new movie. And then I just offered up If you want to be on Mike for my mini soad here, then it'll be fun because I'm going to talk about a movie that I liked a lot that I don't think you're going to expect me to have liked a lot. That's Creed three. Saw Creed three. Yeah. Fuck you. Then you can hang up, but could go solo about Creed three. The reason? Yeah. The reason why I thought this would be fun is because. Not necessarily publicly, but I have not been the biggest fan of Creed one and definitely not Creed two. They're okay. They're fine. I'm going to get to them. But sitting here fresh off my IMAX viewing of Creed three, which Michael B Jordan told me to see in IMAX. So a lot of fun. I see a lot in the theater. I can't help myself. New movies, I don't know. They're okay. I see a lot of them. You see all of them? I get different levels. Well, I get different levels of enjoyment out of movies. I try to take something away from at least every movie for new movies, especially this early in the year. It's only the beginning of March. I usually don't have enough good things to say about a movie to fill a hole many so like this. But today is different because Creed three is a really good movie. It's actually really well done and it's really well-made by its star, Michael B Jordan. Is it perfect? No, I don't know. What is perfection? I did not expect perfection. It's the third movie in a franchise that already had six other franchise movies, The Rocky films behind it. Right. And moreover, as I already mentioned, I was not the biggest fan of Creed or Creed two. So I'm just coming here just urging people to give Creed three a chance if you wouldn't consider it. Because a lot of the reason why I wanted to talk about it is to bring up the boxing aspect of it. So that's how this conversation is going to go. Mostly going to talk about the boxing in the movies, not really like the other content. So yeah, that's it. That's how we're gonna start. Creed three Well, I mean, I am I am flabbergasted and I am excited to hear about this, but. All right, yeah, let's get into it. Creed three is a good movie, but just there's a lot of stuff about it where I really didn't think I was going to like it. I'm going to get to all that, but first let me try it. Let me set up Creed three and where I'm coming from a little bit with the first Creed, because Creed, directed by Ryan Coogler, is fine. I love what Coogler and Michael B Jordan created together with Fruitvale Station. It's an absolutely gutting film that I've only been able to watch once and I love how they carried that through with Creed and Black Panther. The reason why I haven't fully appreciated these films, the Creed films so far is because I do not think the boxing is that well done in these movies. Have you? I should guess I should start here. Have you seen Creed? One or two? I've seen Greenwood. Okay, Yeah, I didn't know that. Well, those scenes really don't land for me. I watched every Creed film on Thursday. One in two were on Hulu, and then I dashed to the theater to watch three. And I can tell you, as a lifelong fan of boxing, someone who's been involved with the sport on and off for like 20 years, I don't still compete none of that shit. I just punch various bags every morning and sometimes teach other people how to do that too. Anyway, like as a lifelong admirer of the sport, sweet science, the boxing scenes and creed three are far superior than the boxing scenes in the first two films. Just my opinion. But this was not an opinion. I was anticipating because I will admit I was being a bit of a hater for Creed. Three more so with our friend Dan, who guested with us on the Babylon episode and may be coming up to join us on an episode or two content. I've been texting him a lot, like it's been all in jest, but essentially like I was, I wasn't expecting much, you know? Michael B Jordan coming in, directing it. I'm like, I don't know, is this all going to work out? Is he directed? Yeah, he's oh, Michael Jordan produced and directed this movie. He also was saying as part of the promotion of the film, that anime was a big influence on the boxing scenes. That did not sound good to me at all. I was like, You are not checking my boxes, man. So in God damn it, it worked like it actually really did. He used it a little bit. Not all the time. When he started using it, I was getting nervous. That's why instead of just giving traditional creed reviews today, I just want to talk about all the boxing scenes in each of the movies. I want to talk about how he use this quote unquote anime style. Michael B Jordan directed Creed three, and when that was announced, I guess I was being a little judgy. Again, not publicly, just it's all in jest, but like I knew I'm going to see I knew I was going to see the movie regardless. So with my friends, I'm allowed to poke a little fun at it. That's that's how I view it. I don't go on the podcast and talk shit. And I was eating my words publicly. I'm eating my words publicly now, and I was eating them privately because Dan was my first text and I said if anyone was going to find a reason to not like this movie, you know, it's going to be me. And I really enjoyed my time with it. So being someone who has a specific eye for I mean, we've we've talked about things like this on previous episodes when boxing has been brought up in a movie. But what is your criteria? Like, what is it that you are looking for when you're watching a movie that contains boxing? You're like, All right, if you do these sort of things, you've already you've checked your boxes, as you said. Yes. Yes. Well, okay. So I will explain a little bit about how I view these scenes in movies, because most every movie buff I know also has at least one other interest in life, something that they possess knowledge about. So when they see that depicted in a movie, they are extra critical of it. Right away. I can say you and professional wrestling any movie about professional wrestling, you're just going to judge it with a little more scrutiny. I have friends who are lawyers who hate courtroom dramas because they're unrealistic. Doctors poke fun at medical procedures and dramas. Neil deGrasse Tyson takes the piss out of any space movie. You get what I'm trying to say. I do this with boxing movies. I used to do it to an extreme. I used to only respond to boxing scenes in movies that were portrayed as realistic. I do feel the punches in order for me to respond. Obvious things like air punches, where you see them widely missing their opponents face, that would take me out. Other things, like massive power hit after massive power hit over and over to the face to the face that takes me out. That's not realistic. Knocking each other down six times each in a single fight that takes me out. So I always look for realism. And then I started studying a little movie called Raging Bull a little more aggressively, and I realized that realism has nothing to do with the boxing scenes in that movie That's all about tone, atmosphere, fear, pressure. That's what Scorsese conjures up so well in Raging Bull. They were changing the size of the ring. They were slowing down movements, all for artistic integrity, not for hyper boxing realism. And it really made me feel the essence of what Jake LaMotta was going through, as opposed to what it must feel like to kind of be in the ring, you know, a pretty no more cut. I love that movie, so I will always prefer realism in boxing scenes. All this say now 2023. I just don't expect boxing scenes to be as hyper realistic as I once wanted them to be. In fact, I think actually, actually Rocky Balboa in 2006 started this very dangerous trend of HBO defying all the boxing scenes and movies. Were that hyper HD, that HBO counter clock at the bottom that has the rounds in the timer. You have the HBO announcers. I'm not really a fan of that style at all, and that really seems to have prevailed, especially in boxing movies in the last 15 years. Like, I've always made the argument that if we want pay per view, we can rent. Pay per view. Like, why did you take all of this money you had for a movie and turn it into a pay per view show for 30 minutes? I've never really I've never really dug that. But that's what I like. I like being in the ring and ceiling, feeling the punches. I'm not really a fan of the hardcore CG backgrounds, which is something I'm going to ding Creed for up here. But so that's it. That's how that's kind of what I look forward to. Long answer, But that will kind of give us some insight into how I'm going to judge the Creed Creed two and Creed three fight scenes here. That's it. When we're done with the Creed three conversation based on the criteria that we're talking about, I would love to hear if you had like a top five favorite boxing movies for the boxing only point of view. Funny you should mention that because my little outline that I expected is so low. I do have some to call out at the end, so I'm not going to leave people hanging. No, we're definitely going to land on my favorite kind of boxing scenes, boxing movies, all that stuff, because okay, let's to define like what is a boxing movie? It's a hard thing to define, especially when you watch Creed, Cretu and Creed three back to back to back, because the template for a boxing films that you start with a fight, it ends quickly. You have a fight like the 45 or one hour mark. Usually that doesn't go our protagonist way and then there's some sort of rematch, and then there's a big final fight. The Rocky movies, The Creed movies. It's not wall to wall boxing. It's really I mean, I actually time them because I'm a nerd. But fight one and Creed two in Mexico Quick starts with a great one or shot done in round one. Just a really quick intro to who this Creed guy is. And actually the most effective part of this scene is right, is Creed is celebrating a victory in the ring. The movie Hard cuts to him at his shitty desk job in L.A. the next day. It's just great stuff. It's great. So fight to is the one that got a lot of attention. Second, Fighting Creed is done in one take. It's a round and a half. It's all real time and it is Well-staged. I will say that the first time I saw this movie, you know, I didn't know there was going to be a one take fight. So once I caught on to what they were doing, I was like, Oh man, this is so impressive. Like, I'm really enjoying this. However, however, on repeat viewings just doesn't hold up for me. It looks very, very choreographed and it looks more like, look what I can do with my camera as opposed to look how we can put on a realistic fight. That's all. Now, as camerawork, it's great camerawork. I'm just talking about the fighting here, that's all. I'm just talking about the kind of realism or the impact of the fighting scene, that's all. Still really cool scene, don't get me wrong. All right, Creed Fight three, the final big fight, HBO style, very HD, very bright. It's announced by Max and Jim that HBO announcers loved those guys. Got the timer in the bottom. Right? The fight is staged. Okay, But it just doesn't look or feel like any of these punches hurt in. I felt that the first time I was watching him. There's no Yeah, it's just that dynamic in the way that it looks. I mean the close ups, honestly, and this is true for this is true of fights in all three of these films. The close ups are tough. With that greenscreen background, you can see some of that lagging. And I don't know when that decision was made to for crowd shots were only doing CG from now on. We're not even going to like I get that it's COVID wasn't covered in 2015 when they made Creed, but I don't know, like, is it really cheaper to do those CG backgrounds as opposed to hiring all the extras? I guess it must be it must just be less hassle. I don't know, but it doesn't look as good. Sorry. It just doesn't. Yeah, it looks terrible. It looks absolutely terrible. I can stand. That was something I notice with those movies. You can substitute the roar of a crowd. I mean, you can do it manufactured with sound and all that. But if I don't see, like, a giant, like, crowd out of people that are actively engaged in what they're watching, it feels like a video game. Yes. Yes, exactly. And the backgrounds really do look like a video game. Like I've seen I don't play video games, but I've seen some new shit in the background like, oh my God, it just looks so. Especially with Creed two, I really felt that it does take me out a little bit because it just feels like two guys in a ring fighting, which is fine, but I don't feel any of that crowd involvement which does help amplify that tension. You know, this final fight scene in Creed is 12 minutes. This isn't a spoiler. It is exactly what happens in the first Rocky film. But Coogler has a way of staging this third fight scene where a lot of times when a big punch is thrown, we're behind the main puncher. And when they throw, we kind of can't see the person's face where it's going to land. And the person could just do that very obvious, like head tilt back thing where they're pretending to get punched. I really didn't like the boxing in that first movie that much. I was really surprised that I really thought I was going to like it more. Just wasn't really for me. Now we're going to move on to 3 to 3 fights again and Creed two. The first fight starts right away. It definitely feels like every fight in Creed two feels like an extension of the final flight of Creed, which is there in looks like the same setting. They've changed up the background a little bit, the CGI background, but they all feel about the same, which to me means they're all a little bit flat. I think the camera is definitely way less afraid to get in the ring in in that movie with them. There's no regard for long takes, which I appreciate. That was something Coogler really seemed focused on in the first movie. The second movie. It's just it's a totally different cutting pattern, but it has a little more steam. But again, those CG backgrounds, like I don't want to harp on it too much, but there's no tension or relief for any of it. I don't know. It just feels flat, not very memorable. The second flight in Creed two is Creed versus Victor, so I got to set you up here. So the second fight in Creed two is Creed versus Victor. Victor is the son of Ivan Drago from Rocky four. Wow. Just to kind of put it in context for you, and he's there. Drago is in the movie. The old Dolph Rocky can't watch the fight. He thinks Creed is way outmatched. He's in his restaurant watching wood. Harris is Creed's trainer, Love Wood. Harris was actually playing Duke's son, Duke, who trained Apollo Creed and then later train Rocky. So I love that whole connection. To your point, there are some POV shots in the second fight that really look like virtual reality from a video game or something. It does not work. The HBO ification of this, the hyper HD really doesn't work. It's only a five minute long fight and you're kind of seeing I think everyone's kind of getting the point of what I'm saying. The third fight is pretty much the same thing. It's Creed versus Victor to create terrain like Rocky did in Rocky four, but this time is in the desert, punching tires and shit hours. The montage was a montage. Rocky Worthy Yeah, maybe I should be focusing on the montage, the montage and Creed one. It's like really iconic. He's running and silly, Meek, McMillan's playing all the guys and the bikes are kind of following behind him and cheering him on. It's really cool. The Creed two montage is great as well. It's a direct homage to Rocky four. He was in like the mountains and shit running and running in the snow. Creed is in the desert, but it's a 1 to 1 ratio. So it's always it's always a lot of fun. The Rocky Creed montages are always a lot of fun, but the way this fight looks, I honestly rewatching Creed two. The most interesting thing is that they're fighting in Moscow, which would like never happened today. Like I went, Oh my God, that's Moscow. The way, you know, Russian relations are kind of makes Creed two a bit of a historical artifact. They actually filmed in Moscow. I don't know if they actually filmed there, but that's where it takes place. I don't know. I don't know if it narratively they would set it there now for, you know, obvious news reasons. Now, what this final fight is doing is it is doing the 300th thing where they're speeding it up in slow motion. It didn't speeding it up that I don't really like. It's you know, the end of this fight is not good. I didn't like how it and just again no tensions 12 minutes long no tension anyway I would not be doing this podcast if that's how it was going to end. And I was just going to say the same shit for Creed three like that would it would be worth doing it if it sounds like I'm judging Cream Creed two a little too harshly. I actually like the other aspects of those movies more than the boxing. I'm going to get to some of that later when I talk about the cast. But that's the thing. I'm just here talking about boxing scenes today and they kind of fall flat until we get to Creed three. And I don't want to overhype this, but again, as a lifelong boxing fan, we thought they really did a good job. So we actually get four fights and Creed three. Well, to set up Creed three, we have Adonis Creed played by Michael B Jordan, and he has a quick fight, which is fight number two, which I'll get to. But after that, he goes into retirement and now he's working about like building up new fighters. He's training them with Wood Harris in their gym. The movie begins with Fight one two quick fight from his past, in which it is shown that Creed is kind of the sidekick to this other guy, Damian Damien's a little older, little bigger, lot of swagger there in L.A. Dr. Dre is the watcher, is blasting. Damien picks Creed up at his nice house and then they go kind of sneak off to this, you know, small underground fight in which Damien just absolutely pummels the guy he's fighting and everything is going to be good. Damien does seem to be a little bit of loose cannon, and he's walking around with a gun. Things don't go well. I don't want to say how things don't go well and Damien ends up going to prison for 18 years. So kind of the crux of Creed three is now that Damien is out, he wants his, you know, because he was a boxing prospect, but he's been gone. And now his you know, his body, his little buddy is this famous world champion fighter. And he wants his to so fight, too, which is pretty quickly after fight one and Creed. Now we're 15 years later, Creed is fighting the final guy from the first movie, Pretty Ricky Coughlin. I will say this probably has the worst CG of any of the boxing scenes in any Creed film to the point where I was out, I went, Nope, because we're early in the movie, we're still really early. And I went, Dude, I can see like green hazing around their heads and I can see lagging. Like, you move this too quickly. It wasn't. It just wasn't looking good for me. And Jonathan fucking Major shows up, and the first fight we get with him, you know, it's like an hour into the movie is so well done. And that lack of tension that I've been talking about, that's immediately gone. Because what they do is they have such a good soundtrack and a soundscape for it. And this is why Michael B Jordan has been telling people to go see this in IMAX, like he has seen major stars. He's not fighting Creed. It's just he's fighting. He's actually fighting Creed's main prospect that he wants to, you know, train for to be the heavyweight. So this is a big fight. And he get major's gets rocked in the face so hard that when he goes to sit on the bench, he tries to take out his mouthguard and it hurts. And the sound really amplifies. And this is not a dude who shows a lot of pain and he's like his eyes, water. And I really felt and I'm like, Ooh, and I'm doing that grimacing. I don't do that in Creed or Creed two at all. And it hurts because his fucking tooth has been knocked out, so he has spit it out. But the sound of like, like that would hurt really bad. And it was just it was so well-done. Really, really great fight. One of the reasons it's a great fight is that Jonathan Majors knows how to box. This is very clear and he has a fighting style. It's a lot of fun to watch. He's very defensive. So he'll use his hands to block, which is a very tricky way to fight because you have to use so much more energy. You're constantly guarding yourself with your hands. I mean, you should be guarding yourself anyway. But his defense is very, very active and he has this very unconventional style of punching people in places where you don't think it would hurt like their shoulder. But I mean, you get someone who could knock over a tank with their punch punch on you twice in the shoulder. She can hurt, man. So that's like three. And we're really moving. And I just I enjoyed that a lot. Okay. I do want to talk about Jonathan Majors really quick because his first role was actually in Hostiles by Scott Coover. I don't know if you remember him it, but it's a small role. Yeah. Oh, I love that movie. Yeah, I've seen him in White Boy. Rick, the last black man in San Francisco Jungle in the Five Bloods, the harder they fall devotion. That's just in the last six years. Of course, his one major role that neither of us have seen is as Kang the Conqueror on the TV show Loki, and currently in Ant-Man and the WASP Quantumania. I haven't seen that one, but I can confidently say that Damien Anderson in Creed three is his best work yet. The low key on the yard intimidation swagger he has is really effective. I heard Jordan and he used Nick Nolte and Robert De Niro. Their relationship in the beginning of Cape Fear as an influence, and you can really feel that in their first encounter as adults, you just don't know what this Damien guy's going to do. Great tension, loved it. So of course, I mean, this isn't giving anything away, but if you've seen the preview, this is all leading to Jonathan Majors. Damien getting in the ring with Michael B, Jordan Creed, who has retired and they're going to fight right in the middle of Dodger Stadium. Cool set up. They're setting it up with drone shots. It does look a little fake, but I don't know, I guess we have to get over it. Like, could they not film in Dodger Stadium? And then, I don't know, COVID, this is why I can't be is hard on these boxing scenes anymore because it seems like everyone is doing this. Everyone is just using CGI for crowd. So that's just the way it is. But this does look the best of all the Creed fights. It just interestingly, the final fights and creed Creed two are about 12 minutes. This one's only about 9 minutes long, but it's the best fight in the entire franchise so far. It was so cool. I mean, Majors, his fighting style, it's just all power and great defensive, different fighting styles. Let's go into this anime thing a little bit. There are a few times, a few times when he will slow it down. I don't watch the anime, but I get what you're saying. He'll slow it down and show like for instance, the sweat, like just the beads barely coming off of the fighters back after they get hit a few times. When he use that, I thought to great effect to really showcase how quickly a fighter has to think. And when you see that opening that those hands part for a millisecond a fraction of a second, that's when you have to pounce and hope to get your shot in. But that's it. Again, this is a many so these are like deep dive episodes. Just trying to have a little fun. I want people to go see Creed three and the fighting in it. The boxing is really good and I'm going to talk about some of the other aspects of the movie really quick, but good shit, really enjoyed it. Best Creed film so far. Well, that's fucking awesome. Yeah. Yeah. See that IMAX too, if you're going to go. I mean, the the sound. Whoa. They saw I should have mentioned I let you talk that I fucking cut you off right away. Classic. Yeah, it's okay. The sound is like you really, really felt those punches land and I. I don't know if I've ever seen a boxing movie in IMAX before or if one has been made for IMAX. That's what honestly got me to pay for it in IMAX. And I. I just really appreciate it. I'm going to go again just to watch at least to watch that final flight, because it was a lot of fun to sit in and just watch. You know, the boxing and creed is better than a lot of other really famous movies. I'll get to some of those. I'm not trying to be like hater and everything. It's just it's my personal thing. With the CG, I can tell. Michael B Jordan trained well for each film. The man can fight everyone who steps into the ring. In any of these movies, I can tell they know how to fight. I respect that. I appreciate that. I just never really felt the tension of the fighting scenes until this third movie in Give Movies a chance, folks. Michael B Jordan's got the best shoulders in the business. Yeah, exactly. Well, let's talk about Michael B Jordan, because again, he did direct this, which is quite an accomplishment. I've been a fan of his since 2002 when he played Wallace in season one of The Wire. And if you know what I'll do, you know, he was so good in that show. He was so good. And Friday Night Lights is Vince Howard in later seasons already mentioned Fruitvale Station. If you want to really know the impact that screening had on me and listen, you can listen to episode 69 movies that made us cry. Wow. So, so intense. And then his career takes off. Creed, Black Panther, Just Mercy, the first movie he produces without Remorse, which I didn't see, but he also produces This is Important. And now we have Creed three, which he produced and directed. I mean, he has a legitimate PGA credit at the end of this film. Good for him. Yeah, that's awesome. I wonder if he'll do something outside of the Creed films as a next directorial effort. It'll be I'm going to watch it closely. I really want to see what else he has in that regard. Tessa Thompson As Bianca Creed's wife, I have always loved her. She has a they have a really strong argument scene in this movie where they're screaming at each other and she will not back down. Lot of fun to watch. Wood Harris always loved Wood. Harris He plays Little Duke in here. As I mentioned, Duke is who trained Apollo Creed and then he later trained Rocky. I love that connection here. Another connection. Wood Harris is probably best known for immortalizing Avon Barksdale on the Wire. My God, Avon, Little Wallace have some connection in season one, so it's cool to see them on screen together again. You have Phylicia Rashad Clair Huxtable. There is the mom and then Miles Davis, Ken, who plays Bianca and Adonis, is daughter Amara. She's a deaf actress. This was a plot point in Creed two that when Bianca had a child, she found out child was going to be deaf. And now she's older and they just worked really well together. The three of them learning sign language and doing that. It was a really nice human aspect to put on a boxing film and I appreciated that. That's it for Creed, Creed to Creed three Go see Creed three in theaters. Want to watch some kick ass stuff? Here's how I want to end some of my favorite boxing films, which I'm really just kind of like, I just have a few notes. You can ask me more questions about them if you want, and then I'm going to end my I don't have a what are you watching it again? I thought it was going to be doing the solo, but my sort of what are you watching is going to be an explanation of my favorite film in the Rocky franchise and why it is my favorite. I'm going to guess. Well, don't cast yet because we still have a ways to go. Yeah, my favorite boxing films. I mean, the boxing film really is a legacy in Hollywood. For a while it seemed like every major male movie star wanted to do one or version of one, sort of as a rite of passage. I'm only going to talk about right now boxing movies that I like, ones that I think have legitimately good boxing scenes. These aren't in any particular order. Just going to kind of start with some somewhat recent ones. The Boxer with Daniel Day Lewis does not have a lot of boxing at all, but as we mentioned on the deadline pod, a lot of professional boxers who have watched that said that's the closest and actors ever come to how it looks, how they move. So I just want to call that one out. I'm more calling that out. It's like as the rite of passage thing for an actor like DDL. Scott, his boxing movie, Denzel's got his boxing movie with the Hurricane, a movie I've always really appreciated, directed by Norman Norman Jewison, really, really good boxing in that it really looks like Denzel worked hard. De Niro, of course, did it with Raging Bull, a movie already mentioned, certainly not the most realistic boxing scenes, but some of the most awesome in terms of cinematic power. If you are putting on a movie and you do want to watch boxing, this is a bit of a cheat. There's a documentary called When We Were Kings about Muhammad Ali fighting. George Foreman in the Rumble of the Jungle Zaire, Africa. I just recommend people go on YouTube and watch the Rumble in the Jungle on its own, because I think it just holds up. It's eight rounds of bliss. Speaking of the Rumble in the Jungle, my favorite film to ever feature boxing and the most realistic boxing scenes is Michael Mann's Ali in 2001, starring. Who's in that? Jamie Foxx is in that. Ron Silva's great is Angelo Dundee. Michael Williamson as Don King. I feel like I'm missing too many people. There's Jeffrey Wright as a photographer. Love Muhammad Ali. Great film. Michael Mann, no stranger to painstaking detail, really got it right. Really did his research, their recreation of the Rumble in the Jungle and the end of that film. It's my favorite boxing scene in any movie. I know that movie doesn't have a lot of fans. I love it. I don't know what to say. That's the closest watching a movie that it is, that it has ever felt like being in the ring to me. I'm just going to call out some other boxing movies that I like and some that people are like, Hey, you're doing a kind of boxing many. So why didn't you mention this movie? I'm going to do those and we're going to be done again. This has been around for a long time. John Garfield in Body and Soul, 1947. He wanted he wanted to do a boxing movie. Robert Ryan, an actor I love, 1949. He was in a real time boxing movie called The Setup takes place in real time, 72 minutes long. I loved that movie. James Earl Jones did it with the Great White Hope Fat City. John Houston movie is Stacy Keach verse Jeff Bridges. Come on, 1972. You like that one? I like that movie. Yeah. I love Fat City. I was going to bring it up. Oh, are you are okay Rocky completely changes the boxing movie landscape the game 1976. It wins best picture and announces this kind of little known performer name Sylvester Stallone to the scene, The champ starring Jon Voight. So here's another actor who did the boxing movie that's a remake of a 1931 film with Wallace Berry, who won best actor for that film, Homeboy, written by Mickey Rourke, starring Mickey Rourke and Christopher Walken. Not a great film, but Rourke wanted his boxing movie play it to the Bone, Antonio Banderas and Woody Harrelson, one of the most unrealistic fighting fights I've ever seen. It is so fun. It is just so over-the-top and ridiculous. Million Dollar Baby. Interesting. One huge thing when it came out, huge movie, one picture, one director, lot of haters now, a lot of people hating on that movie. I watched it a little bit ago. I watch it for a pod. God, I don't even know which one it would have been for, but I definitely put it on for one and I still really like it. Sorry. I've been in those underground. Not underground, but I've been in those sweaty gyms. I've seen. I've been to fights with that level, that boxing circuit level where you're not like world champions. You're, you know, there's just a few people, a few rowdy people in the crowd, some drinking. It got that right. I like the boxing in that movie. I like that movie. I get to them. That movie pulls the rug out from under you, but whatever. I like it. And I like a lot of Cinderella man. Russell Crowe wanted a box. I haven't really watched that since 2006. I enjoyed that movie. Yeah. No, there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, it's good. The boxing is okay in the end. That final fight. It's an okay fight. Mark Wahlberg wanted to play Micky Ward and be in The Fighter for a very long time. He kept in shape for a very long time. The Fighter is not a movie. I like you and I have talked about it. I'm talking in terms of boxing. I'm not a David or Russell fan. I don't really like his shooting style and his cutting patterns. I love Amy Adams, Christian Bale, Melissa Leo and Mark Wahlberg in the movie. I really do. Bale and Leo deserve their Oscars for it All good. However, if you are fan of Micky Ward and if Micky Ward, like me got you into the sport of boxing and made you want to become a fighter, not just him, It was his three fights with Arturo Gatti that completely changed boxing for me. And if you are going to the Fighter to look for awesome Micky Ward style fighting scenes, go spend a little less than an hour and a half watching Micky Ward, one probably my favorite boxing fight of recent memory, certainly of this century, Micky Ward and Arturo Gatti two and then part three. And they're great, great fights. That's what I recommend. Instead of watching The Fighter, I don't know, Southpaw, Jillian Hall, one of the boxing movie one, if not the just the worst and dumbest fighting style I've ever seen in a movie from an actor. When he announces that I believe I only saw this once in the theater, I believe it's something that he has to get the ever loving shit kicked out of him before he fights back like he wants to feel the pain, feel the punches. That is very idiotic and very dumb. Don't anyone ever do that. If you are fighting, whether you're in a ring or not. Someone dies early on in that movie and that is the most memorable thing about it. That movie has like a horrific death scene of someone dying. Just how believable it is of them dying. 2016. What a year for the boxing film. All true stories Bleed for This with Miles Teller Chuck, where Liev Schreiber is playing, Chuck Wepner hands of Stone, where Edgar Ramirez was playing Roberto Duran. No masks, no masks. That's it. I mean, there are so many boxing movies. There are so, so many. But if someone's like, What are your favorite boxing movies? I'm putting on Ali. But I love the hurricane. I love the fights in Raging Bull, even the one where he's playing possum in the beginning. And I do like Million Dollar Baby. But let's talk about these Rocky movies or one in particular. What's my favorite Rocky film? You can pick Rocky through. Rocky Balboa. So it's Rocky one through five and the Rocky Balboa. That's what I considered in contention here. My guess is your favorite, too. Yes. Good job. Yeah. You get to have. I bet you that. No, you haven't. But I remember us at one point talking about Rocky and just the overall franchise. I think we both kind of had like a feeling that, like, I mean, I loved the first one, but we were singing the praises of to in when two doesn't really get enough love. And I think I was like two is really good. And you're like, Yes, two is very good. But I didn't think it was going to be your favorite, but it was a shot kind by a long shot. And I got to, of course, preface this by saying I am not casting any hate toward Rocky at all, but I do think two is a better movie. It's the one I've seen the most. And I like it. I like I get to a large part of one is the romance, like getting to know them and the romance. But I like that that's already built in. Yeah, we just get to kind of assume that they're in a good place. The main reason I like Rocky two the best, it definitely has the best montage. Me That's when he's like, really, really going for it. That's the one. If I'm looking up a rocky montage getting high one, I don't go to Rocky one, I go to Rocky too. I really think that one's better. I actually think the montage in Rocky Balboa is really good too. I really like the way they did that. But moreover, Rocky two has the best ending fight scene because of how that final fight ends and they both knock each other down. But I just love that. And no one can do that again without being a direct reference. Saraki too. And I think the coolest thing about the final fight scene in Rocky is how no attention is put on the fact that he loses like that. Because that's not the point. Because that movie right there and not putting any attention on the fact that he lost to Apollo Creed. It's telling you you we just tricked you into watching a love story. That's what this movie was. That's why it won Best picture. Boxing movies don't often win Best picture. I mean, you got jump all the way to Million Dollar Baby. But that's, you know, Clint having a lot to do with that. But Rocky, too, I just I love that final scene. And, you know, whoever stands up wins. Who can ever get on their feet and everyone's, you know, watching the wives or yelling, get out, Rocky. You know, he's all mixed. God, crazy. Yeah, I really love it. But with Adrian kicking off that the montage in Rocky two with you could do one thing for me Win. And then what are we waiting for? Like, I fucking love it. I'm just really absurdly good. Burgess Meredith impression. Hey, Hey. I love it. And I mean, Stallone working out, it still might be my favorite watching an actor work out just would. He's like, passing that medicine ball to the guy and he's like, Come, yeah, come on. Because ask him what to do. Slap him over and over the stuff. Come, come on. I never have enjoyed someone going for trying to go the distance more. And honestly, just talking about it now, I did not prepare for Creed three by watching all the Rocky films. I did watch Creed and Creed two but this makes me want to kind of as soon as we turn this mic off to go watch that montage, the montage to the end of Rocky two, and then for an extra bonus, you can put on Rocky three and watch the final 5 minutes of Rocky two in the beginning of Rocky three, which is always fun. No hate on Rocky three or four. I'll hate all day on five. That is not a good movie. And I was very nervous that Creed three was going for that. Like the, you know, the guy that he helped like bring up now want some but it wasn't that they had a different angle for it which I really appreciate it That's it. That's it for a creed. 3 minutes out here. This would have been a lot shorter probably, if you weren't here. And I'm glad you could tell along. You're welcome. Yes. Oh, God. What a service. You've done us all that food. All right, that's it. Go see Creed three. If you like boxing movies, you like boxing scenes, Let us know on Twitter at W AIW Underscore podcast. But as always, thank you for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas Dose Dotcom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at what are you watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter at W aiw underscore podcast Next time we're going to check in right before the 95th Annual Academy Awards and argue about the most current Oscar narratives. Who's going to win? Who do we want to win? Fun stuff. Stay tuned.