83: Avatar: The Way of Water (2022)

Never doubt Big Jim! Alex and Nick start the episode by sharing their surprise praise for James Cameron’s “Avatar: The Way of Water.”
The last hour of the pod is dedicated to Big Jim himself – all the films, common themes in his work, Sigourney Weaver, Bill Paxton, “Titanic” monoculture, and much more!
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Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex with thrown. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dostal. How are you doing there? Spider? Spider. This one. Spider the kid. Oh, God, dammit! God damn it! But everybody, God it. I can't say any of their names. I don't know it either. Names spiders. The best I could do. I thought you were going to give me a four, like a classic Jim Cameron reference that were going to go with, you know, Hicks alien aliens being. Yeah, I get it, Avatar. I fill you up a lot over the past couple months. Oh, no. I mean, a spider's a real drop, but, uh, but I guess he's kind of a hero in it. He kind of saves. What? Talk about Spider. Where Loincloth. He is for the whole time. He is. He is like one of them. Avatar. Two ways to the way of water. Yes, go ahead. I'm excited to be here. Oh, yes. That you would see when we're in person, we get too caught up. It's also New Year's Eve is the day we're recording this. It's going to be released a few weeks later. But that's okay because, you know, this movie will still be in theaters the month after it's released, which is, you know, it's Big Jim, Avatar, The Way of Water. It's here. What did we think? Was it worth the wait? Was it worth the cost of a 3-D ticket, an IMAX 3D ticket? Is it worth sitting there for 3 hours and 12 minutes? This is the Avatar episode. This is the Big Jim episode. What did you think? Did you like it? Yes. Yes, I did, too. I do. I loved it. Yeah. I can't even lie like I found myself very pleasantly surprised just in the middle of the first watch going, okay, I get what he's doing here. Like I like it. This is definitely more high octane than Avatar. The first one, but I. Yeah, so. So let's. Let's start there. Let's go back. Since we both really liked Avatar two, what were we bringing into this like Avatar Expectations experiences? Because I saw Avatar the weekend it came out in 2009. Yeah. I did not think I would ever watch it again. I decided it's on, it's on Disney Plus, so I decided to put it on the night before I saw Avatar two. It did help, like remind me of some stuff, but I can't say it's his most, you know, Rewatchable movie. So, I mean, I knew I was going to see Avatar two because it's Big Jim and we're going to go. I didn't really think I was going to like it as much as I did based on the first movie. Yeah, the 2009. I remember seeing it in theaters 3D and having like a blast with the visuals. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Like even then it was undeniable. Was not my favorite James Cameron movie. And I'm a big JC guy and I love it. We should count how many different names we're going to throw at him. You got Big Jim. I always say big. We're going to go with Jimbo. There's going to be a cheesy yet. Big Jimbo. Big Jimbo? Yeah, I'm going to do it. Why don't you? Every time you reference him, you come up with the new name and I'll just stick with Big Jim. All right? All right. That sounds good. All right, So, Jimmy, see, Jimmy being a big fan? Jake's a good one because, you know. Yeah, Jesus considers himself a bit of a God. I hope so. Yeah. Yes, he is. And, ahem, But it was not my favorite of all of of his movies. And I could not imagine, like, just watching it on TV, like, well, it didn't really work for me yet when I watched it for this one. Yeah, Like this is a situation where I think he started a thing and continues now. I think with even Avatar two, where it's like, I don't really know how you watch these movies other than on the big screen. I'm not saying that you can't because clearly you can. Yeah, but I mean, the going into this one the well, I mean, I remember when we first heard that Avatar two was going to happen and it was going to be like this giant weight. Right? Right. I just remember thinking for a long time pessimistically that this was just like, oh my God, like, you're really double down. And then you find out there was going be three, four and five in the mix and you're like, Really? This is what you're going to do with like basically, I'd imagine like, like your career, the rest of his career. The rest of his career is just Avatar thing. And I just didn't think the first one was good enough to like, carry on that legacy. But then you hear about this for so long, I just kind of numbed it all out. Yeah, I go, Right, I've accepted. Yeah, this is what he's doing. So finally 2022 comes. My expectations were very low them. So they went from really high to low over the course of ten years. Yeah, Yeah. And I just sat down by myself. I got my 3D glasses on. I'm like, I'm just ready for whatever this is going to be right. And I was so happy. I was blown away. It was it was so much fun. I couldn't agree more like I went and saw by myself, sat down IMAX 3D and I went, okay, I mean, the first thing we already talked about this, but one of the things I loved is he just starts. It goes, Yeah, So hard. Arguably one of the hardest scenes in the movie is in the first 10 minutes. And I, I mean, people were still like getting settled in their seats and we're still like getting adjusted like, okay, this is what everything looks like. And I, I really liked I mean, there's some, there's some voiceover Big Jim, not the best voiceover, and we're getting a little caught up about who people are, but it's going very quickly. And you want to. Quick Yes, yes. For for as long as the movie is, it's like cruise and buy this stuff. And you know, the Sigourney Weaver clone baby thing there they literally brush that off with like, no one can explain how this happened. And then there's this movie, their movie, they're going we had four kids are we had three kids and adopt a kid like, everything's everything's moving. But then when they start to show that the you know, the what they call in that space, people. Yeah, the sky people, the sky people are coming to destroy Pandora. That was one of my favorite scenes in the movie in terms of action like that laser that was just like Dune and destroying it. It was so hardcore. But I really loved like part of Avatar. It takes so long to establish the world in like this Jake Scully guy. And I mean, more than half of that movie is like, What is all this? And he's questioning everything, and there's all this denial, which to me, that type of stuff doesn't really hold up on Rewatches, but they got to skip all that for part two, and they just threw us in and I really liked that. But you mentioned that it was a lot very quickly. Yeah, I honestly did not really settle into the movie until now. They have fled the forest. Yeah, and I kind of felt like once they got to the I don't remember what it's called, but the water. The water? Yeah, sure. The water. Once they got to the water, that's when I was like, okay, this is where the movie can begin. And it, it, it feels like that does, does the pace slows. Yeah. We get to enjoy this. It's like, beautiful. But I mean, I'm also already taken by the visuals, right? I mean people, you got to see this in 3-D. Well, that I mean, that's my next question. Number one, like, should we this is we didn't feel rushed to release this like Bardo opening day. Like, yeah, Bardo, which one is watching, has to do with us doing it. Do it. But Avatar two, this one, this movie is going to be in the conversation for so long. There's like no other movie in the theater right now. We were going to go see what that's like. We're like, It's Avatar Babylon in the way. Oh, like, there's just nothing else worth even considering because no one wants to compete against Big Jim. But if you were on the fence or if you know this, you don't think this is going to be your type of movie, but you like things that look cool, for lack of a better phrase, you got to go see this. And then I think our argument is if you're going in, you're showing up, just fork out a few extra dough to see it in 3D, IMAX, 3D, whatever it is. Like I have no desire. I actually have already seen this twice. I have no desire to go see this like in regular. No. Right. I mean, and it plays that way, but you've got to go see it. Being someone that's not a fan of CGI, very much like we we talk a lot about like, I like how it's textured as opposed to being like the whole piece of the pie. Yes. This is a world that he is crafted that is meant to be seen in 3D. And like when I threw on those goggles and we started goggles, glasses and I didn't even get. I know. And or underwater. So that's why I. Yeah, it tracks it tracks it, it I was like, okay, this is I've never seen anything like this. I haven't either. I, this is truly cool. And I remember like there were a couple of times where I would watch, like because there was a while after Avatar where 3-D movies were a huge thing. They really tried. They really tried even Cameron did it with Titanic. Yeah, they were doing a lot of post conversion and then they were trying like, this is going to be the new thing and no one gave a shit. And it kind of has gone away. It has? Yeah. And it only really worked when it was filmed in 3D. Yeah. Because they would do these transfers post and I would get motion sick. So would I. Like I come out of the theater, I'd be like, okay, that like I remember I saw Frozen in 3D. Oh my God. And I was like, because that one was not meant for 3D, right? And and I'm like, I got to this is the rest of my night was ruined, right? Yeah. And so this is not like that. No, no, no. This is not like that. It's smooth. It's I don't know. Maybe this is my vantage point from where I was in the theater. But didn't it always feel like there was, like, water Slightly like at the very bottom of the screen? Like we were always sort of like watching it, like in water? Yeah. I mean, once they get to the water, he doesn't want you to forget that it's there. And yeah, the only time we really cut away from it is when we go to like, you know, the bad guys, the bad and stuff. But even they're like getting to the water on it. Yeah. Like, yes, I do not think 3D has ever looked like this. I think this is the best use of it. And to your point, some of the reasons we can be so critical of bad computer graphics or just have computer graphics is because they're recreating things that we already know exist in guidelines in the background where it just looks like off like any movie set in DC. Now, the capital looks like weird. The I don't know, it's like glossy and shiny. You can just tell it's fake. But he now has the opportunity to build everything from scratch and you just kind of. It's so much easier to accept. Yeah. Like this is all, of course, fake. I mean, everyone's blue, we get it. And it allows me someone who's not the biggest fan of animated movies or the biggest fan of wholly computer graphic mote like motion pictures. Genuinely, this is these are all the criticisms I had of the first Avatar, but now I don't know. It was just so much more accepting of it. And I think that's because honestly, it just looks so fucking good. Yeah, there's like, there's, that's such a basic way to say it, but it's true. It just looks great. It whatever, whatever. Ten years he needed to do this. Oh Cameron of Jim. Yeah. He, he, I mean he, it was worth it. Yeah, I think it was worth it. The technology is really interesting for like a, you know, nerd like me nerds like us to watch how he's changing the frame rate a lot. And it would get really sped up and everything would look really crisp. And then he'll go back to like kind of normal 24 or 48 frames. I really like that. I think I've heard some people say, is that going to be distracting or it looks attracting it doesn't like it plays well. It plays very well. It feels like it honestly, it feels like a cinematography move. It feels like, you know, cinematography is the camera's way of telling the story because this is all so digitalized and I don't even know if that's the right word. But whatever it is, when the camera does make those movements or that speed rate is sped up, it feels like a tool. Yeah. To convey the story as opposed to, Oh, we're just changing this. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to draw to people's attention. Like when you do see it, he's adding like camera mess ups on purpose into posts like those zooms. He doesn't actually like those really quick zooms. He does that in his live action work too, or the camera's shaky. He really likes to hold the camera himself during action scenes. Even every time you see a lens flare, like that's something that he's adding just to give a little to make it seem a little more humane and like human to us because there there'd be no lens player in the situation he's shooting and obviously he's adding that in. But it would be if this was a real world, we would be seeing that lens flare from the sun. So yeah, I love that shit. Just adding in those intentional quote unquote mistakes to make it feel more realistic. Do you think this movie is ever boring or slow? That it's a lot? 312 is a lot to ask of someone and you're not in the theater for 3 hours and 12 minutes because if you see it in AMC like I did and you get the awesome Mission Impossible promo, the new Oppenheimer trailer, which was really cool. I was like, I usually don't watch trailers, but I went, Whatever. I'm just I'm here. It's an IMAX. It was 28 minutes after, you know, the Nicole Kidman sit down thing. It was 20, 28 minutes from when it said Avatar two is going to start to when it did. So, you know, people are in the theaters in some cases for 3 hours and 45 minutes. Yeah. Is it worth it? Yeah, Yeah, it it it's. Did you ever feel like bored checking your phone, anything like that? No, I well, I mean, I never check my phone. Yeah, that would be a real bad situation. If I'm checking my phone, I would really need to go back and watch it again. I did not really enjoy that first, That part that you like the most, right? I am like, What are we doing? Yeah, like this is very fast. It's like I remember feeling all of that time, right? And it wasn't until we were I think it was like when we were first exploring the water. Yeah. And area that I was like, Oh. And then from that point on, with the whole story, as it goes from there, I was in. But then from that point on, I didn't want it to end right like that, that last action sequence, I was like, I could stay here forever watching this. Yeah, I mean, so much fun. It ends If you're a fan of action movies and you like Big Jim's films, it ends with a sequence that will not disappoint. It's like 45 minutes. An hour long. Yeah. That echoes Titanic Echoes Terminator two. He's calling back in a really cool way. Yes. All of his best work. I mean, there's references to the abyss, obviously, to aliens in those suits there. In the main reason that I went back to see this a second time, there's two actually. Number one, I was so overcome with the visuals the first time I saw it and I was not I was letting the story take a backseat. I wasn't really tracking like who the characters were. It can be a little hard for me to tell some of them apart just because they all kind of look the same because of the technology and. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. So little Pandora racism. Yeah, I apologize. Well, hey, the you know, she's right. The water people look different, so it's easy to tell them apart. Why? Because God is the greener for us. This I know. Oh, God. Okay. Anyway, I was letting the story take a back seat. I was, like, following everything along, but I. I really loved the relationship between the son and the whale. But I was missing. I was missing. What is. That's really the relationship between the son in the way. My favorite fucking part of those two. But I'd say I promise I would point. But I wasn't tracking the story. Importance of everything. Because most of us can agree story character. Not the biggest tools in Big Jim's bag, right? He's an action set piece guy. So I was more taken with that and I love the visual look of it. I got home because I really didn't want to know that much about the movie. Everyone's been talking about it, but this is embarrassing to admit. I got home and realized that they shot the underwater scenes underwater. I had no idea that they had done that. And I went, Oh, what? Like, how did you do that? So that immediately made me want to go back and see it again, which I did. And then I was able to pay a lot more attention to the story, and it was better than I was giving a credit for after reviewing it. It's a stronger story than Avatar, you know? One Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure it is. And I mean, but it's also it's a simple story. It is very you know in a if for its revolutionary achievements that it's made with both the first one and second one. I don't think the stories are the most original that that or Jimmy C has put together in his career. I think if you don't already know, like one of the best components that makes James Cameron, James Cameron is that he makes all of these crazy movies, but he manages to get to the heart of the human experience in a way that like I just because it's such an action based thing, right? Like how does he make us feel? The way I cried twice. We both cried in this movie. Yeah. Yeah, we admitted that we did. Yeah. And it's just every time I did it, I just go. Davidson Yeah, you did it again, you son of a bitch. Son of a bitch. You got. You got me. That's what makes him him is that he's able to do all of this, possibly one of the greatest action directors of all time. If not, if not the if maybe not the best if you really think. But we'll get into his past work with that. But for always kind of bringing it back to what matters the most. Right? What are we really, really holding on to? Yeah, I think the first one was actually missing a bit of that. That was the one where I, I mean, outside of just like the injustice of like, how could this be happening to these people right. It's so big as opposed to kind of like, you know, that one good heart chord. Yeah. And we can I don't want to do a full like plot breakdown. We'd be here for a while and it that would be a struggle for me to go through that. But I mean, basically, like Jake Scully, you know, Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana, they're married now. He's permanently in Avatar. He's that's how the first one ended. So he's permanently an avatar. And, I mean, you know, please help me fill in some gaps here. But the sky people are coming like, suck Pandora up. It's like it's ten years after the first movie Sky. People come for Pandora. It's moving very fast and then it's like a year later and they need to help their family. The main family, Sam and Zoe, they now have four kids and they need to go like hiding out from, you know, the sky people in from the bad people. So they make their way to the water from the forest to the water, and they have to kind of ask permission, like, can we stay here? Can we chill here? Well, don't they don't they don't they fuck up like what? Like cause there's a reason why they leave the forest. No one else does. Because it's because of him and because of Jake. Yeah, Yeah, because they're coming for their friend, for him, and they're like, You need to get out of. Yeah, this is all about you. Because it's your fault, right? Because. Yeah. KITTERIDGE Stephen Laying that, you say Kittredge the main. Okay. Okay, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The main heavy from the first one who hired Jake Scully, you know, and took him under his wing. He was killed in Avatar one, but now he's been brought back in the form of a clone. And he's in now a what are they called, Avatar now? Yeah, Not here. Here. Okay, Now he's. He's been cloned into an avatar body, so he's still the mean, old, angry bastard that he is. But now he has the strength and size of them. All of his men and women under his command have also been cloned. So he's saying, you know, mission one, I'm going to go get Jake. And that's that's pretty much it. The bad dude is coming to get Jake, and Jake goes to hide out in the water and things happen. And, you know, there are difficulties with the water people. Not everyone meshes well, There's tensions. There's this and that. One of Jake's sons, the youngest son, forms an incredibly emotional and touching bond with a whale that was like genuinely my favorite part of the movie. And, you know, Big Jim is an animal rights activist, and that really comes to fruition in this scene or in this film because, well, we'll get to that scene. But I mean, let's just talk about that relationship a little bit between the boy and this whale, which I think is just one of my favorite things he's ever put on screen one of his movies, I believe all of it. I agree. But I just want to say one thing, like forgive us a little bit if we are not as specific. Yes, please. With some of this. But I also want to point out that I know that there is like a nerd to this whole entire world. This is this is from the first one. Yeah. That is like very, very real. But even the way that we're talking about is not that we're not feeling that. It's also that the movie doesn't actually need it. Like, yeah, like we're kind of flying by some of this because the way he's presenting the story to us is piecemeal like this. Like this is sort of like, don't worry, just, just kind of get these key things. Yeah, yeah. And then for all of the people that really love Pandora and all of like, because I'm sure it's jam packed with all of these like gems and Easter eggs and oh God, things that we just saw are blown right past our minds. Yeah, but so you've got that. But you also don't need it for the casual viewer because I didn't even see rewatched the first Avatar and I'm back in here now, I'm like, I get it. I get it. Yeah, exactly. But it's I want to point that out. But back to the the sun in the whale. This is going to be a great title. Avatar to the Sun in the Whale. Or as I like to say, Avatar to a parable of bad parenting. You want. Yeah, we'll go get that. We'll get to that next we'll see the whale first. Just like the relationship. You know, there's the these water people have very, very like they're very closely connected to the whales of this world. The whales, when they get to the water, you know, they're off hibernating. But there is this one kind of rogue whale that no one will pay attention to because he is apparently a killer and he's bad and he kills his kind and everyone needs to stay away from him. So it comes as a big shock when Jake's youngest son forms his bond in the water. People are like, no, like not only like, Hey, Sunny, don't do that. It's like you cannot do that. So it's a big risk with him just hanging out with this whale. But we come to understand that this whale is greatly misunderstood. Yeah, And I think it's and I think it's because we've been given enough of, like this younger brother, like the young son. You know, we really feel for his feel of being an outcast. Like he he does make some bad decisions, but he also does them out of like, goodness, like protecting his sister. Yeah. Like there's certain things where he's like, No, I'm just not going to take this. This isn't right. I know I'm told this, but I'm going to stand up for myself and I think that's something everyone relates to. And so when you're shunned for that like he is, and then you're just kind of out to sea, Right? Right. And then you find this whale. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was like, he was. The reason why they find each other is because the Jake's son has been tricked by, you know, teenagers of the water world, and they are playing a trick on potentially to get him killed. And he almost does. And this whale saves the boy. It's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and you really feel the appreciation for that and the way that they communicate with each other, the way that they care for one another. It's not really done through dialog. It's more of just kind of like there's, there's sort of like this, this innate understanding that they have that we understand. Yeah. And we and we're behind it. Yes. Very like yeah like I love these the son in this way. Well I mean even us I mean we're laughing as we say son in the whale and stuff and even me describing this out like this relationship with the whale, it could sound silly the way that I am articulating it. It is not like it might sound silly for me to be like they communicate through very minimal, like sign language and things. Yeah, very minimal. But like you get whale vision, you get the P.O.V. of the whale and that sounds like it would be stupid. And it is not like really, really moving. And there's a scene, but I mean, it's kind of hard to spoil this movie, but there is a scene when the boys like questioning the whale. Like, why doesn't why doesn't anyone like you? And the whale kind of invites the boy literally into his world. And there's this really cool thing that happens throughout the movie where they like to do so It's such a bad job of explaining this. They they connect their hair to certain things and then they can see what that being has also seen. So like he gets to see the chaos that this poor whale has endured for like really, really long. We come to understand, you know, these are very smart, intelligent creatures, very sensitive. He goes inside of him. He does go inside of him. Thank you. Yes, Yes. Well, well, well put. Oh, God. What a okay. I don't know if we should get up. Should we stick with the whale and get to the whaling scene, or do you want to talk about bad parenting first? Which like a theme of Jim Cameron. I was trying to find a transition of bad parenting lead to the whaling, but essentially which which links up with this like whaling community and their job is to go hunt whales, kill one and steal, you know, the brain matter of it, because that's the most precious item in the material in the world that it can literally stop the aging process in humans. This is all like deep, deep, deep story stuff that isn't like necessary to our core text of Avatar. But it is really cool because everybody kind of stops for like a half hour to explain what these whales mean and explain how they're going to go hunt them. It's also kind of cool when you see the main heavy in this case, Kittridge being taught something and he's like so impressed by is just sitting there, like watching, watching. And this main whaling guy, I don't have the actor's name, you know, he's a real blowhard asshole. Like he's just out for it, like, can't wait to kill the whale. And there is a scientist on board too. Jemaine Yeah, Jemaine from Flight of the Conchords. And Yeah, yeah, I know what we do in the show to do in the Shadows. And he's the one who's behind, you know, the science of all this and talking about the worth of it. But he clearly really loves the whale. So he gets a lot of good lines. Like they're like, How do you tolerate this? And he has that with this, Like, drink it. It's a great character because like, well, one like, you know, it's tough to bring in someone like him that's so associated with comedy. Yes. And he's got such a specific New Zealand. He does that we love to hear because it's just it's just it's it's instantly tickles my funny bone. Right. So he's speaking with an American accent, which is convincingly. Yeah, convincingly. But at first I was like, ooh, because there was a bit of just an audience sort of process. I go, okay, we're not this is not the Jemaine that I'm used to seeing. And he's playing a serious role. It did not take me out. It did take me just like a little bit to just accept it. But then he starts just doing a good job. Yeah, really good. And now I'm like, I like him even more. I'm it. It was a very, very good casting call. Yeah. I thought because that's a that's a that's a risk. Yeah. Oh, for sure. You know, like James Cameron's basically like, Yeah, I know. I'm going to take a guy that is going to be a bit of a shock to the audience, but I'm going to put him in a situation that people have never seen him in and he's going to work. Yeah, and he does. It's he plays that balance really well of like this is benefiting science. Like, I cannot deny that it is. But there is such a huge price to pay that we are killing these animals, these animals that mean so much to the native people who live here. And like we're not from here, you know, and he's an American dude, like we shouldn't be here. And he's playing all of that very, very well. But yeah, we get to the actual whaling scene and there are, you know, the whales have come back from hibernating or where they are in the water. People are very, very happy that they're back. I mean, some of them have their spirit animals, the spirit animals. They have such strong connections with them, like they've known them their whole lives and they hang out with them and spend time. And yeah, there's a prolonged whaling scene and that's when they hunt and kill a whale. It's not a spoiler. And it was like genuinely one of the most emotionally difficult scenes of 2022 for me to watch. Yeah, I mean, we watch crazy shit and talk about crazy shit on this podcast, but I was deeply fucking disturbed by that. And that was the point. Yeah, it was. And I think it was the way it was done to is so long and they're explaining as each thing is happening. Yeah, yeah. This is this is how we have to kill them And it's, and it's just brutal. It's just terrible. And then of course he's got the young like the, like the, the, the child, the child. Right. Well they say it's easier to get your mother. Yeah. Calves are with him. It's all it is probably true. The thing is, I imagine it is very true. Yeah. Like this would be a very different scene if this was an actual like as we know it, like whales. And, and I know that there's documentaries out there, out there with that show. You know, there's like a whole show about it, like I don't even get re focus on that. And, and so there is a bit of a of a of a disconnect because we are for such an ignorant term watching a cartoon. Yeah, sure. Sure. So we're not seeing that the true brutality that we would if this was live footage. Right. But we get it and it's effective and there's no way you don't look at that scene and don't compare it to like what's going on with us in our world with whales, of course. So there's a brilliance behind this where I feel like Jim was able to can be like, Oh no, we're going to get this as brutal as possible because because we have that that removal just because of the of the visual component. Yeah. And it works. It really does. It works. It's a really, really effective scare because you're like you're watching them do stuff. And like you said, they're explaining it so well, but I don't want these people to succeed. But it's like, no. And then when they do, it's this huge, like you're feeling so conflicted about it because they did you know, they're making all these comments like the whales never fight back. They're hard as hell to kill, but they don't fight back. And so it's just a matter of us, you know, shooting it enough times and doing all this crazy shit to it. And that this killing greatly affects the water. People who want to rebel fight back. And I think it's as good a time as any to talk about how conflict tends to arise and avatar the way of water. Because first time I saw it again, I was more concerned with visuals, not necessarily story, but you. Why don't you just set it up when you go, all right, you're going to go see it again. So please pay attention to this specific aspect and tell me your thoughts on it. But why don't you set it up for And I got to say, by saying this, this is not take away from the movie. What's so funny? We're just going it's just this little segment. We're going to be poking a little fun at it. The movie can take it. It's it made like $1.2 billion. It's fine. I don't think either of us are saying we're giving like an A-plus review to this. We're giving we are giving our wholehearted endorsement that if you go to Dolby, IMAX, 3D, whatever, and the ticket is $24, we're saying that's money well spent, well spent. And this movie is fun. Yes. And yes. And even I'm saying, like how I'm not really into like the first begins. It's moving too fast. I don't even care because the movie, it's taken me on such a ride then. So what I'm about to say is just really just kind of more funny. It's just fun. Yeah, it's just fun. Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana like their as the characters. I don't know their names. I don't either. JJ, JJ And then, and yeah. Zoe. Zoe Like, so this movie very much is from the kids Yeah. Perspective. Good point. Very, very like is not about Jake it like the first one was it's much more their story. Yeah, but that being said, where the fuck are these parents during so much of this movie? Like, it's like these kids like, are getting themselves into like life and death problems constantly and their parents hurt is nowhere to be found ever. Now, granted, after every one of these saves, Jake is basically like, you never do this again. You don't humiliate us. We're trying to be good people to these people, like, stop doing this. And that's where it ends. Yep. And then they do it again. Again. And then they're just like, the thing is, it's like they live in one hut all together. And, and and somehow these parents lose all of their kids all the time. And. And my question is go, what are they actually doing That's that's making them not be present. Yes, exactly. Like where are they? What's going on? And yeah, it's hilarious. But again, not enough to take away from the movie. But my favorite part of it was there's so many times because they, they have like a net communicator, like, Yeah, a little radio transmitter type thing. Yeah, they can, they can push a little button and somehow talk to each other. Very. Yeah. Yeah. And like several times, one of the sons will go to his dad. Dad, we're in a lot of trouble. And I'll be like, Oh, where are you? It's bah bah bah, the fuck away! Who's with you? Everybody, we have to go. He looks around like, Ah, where? And it's got four kids. Four kids, and he could never get of it. There's a huge action set because like a major would. And then he gets some information and he looks again at one of his sons and he's like, Where are your sister? Jesus? They were just see, they're like, just here. 2 minutes. Yeah, exactly. So it's great. It's just great. It was it's a fun recurring theme of, you know, parents. Not really. And I did listen to a podcast interview of Jim kind of talking about this like he's raised four kids himself and they're all I think the youngest one is 19. So I think there's a lot of that in this and how it can be hard to wrangle them. And he said, like, you know, you want to be a dictator when you're a parent, this is his word. And then he's like, Yeah, you know, he's like, That doesn't really work out too well. So you have to adjust. And it's like, Well, yeah, well, that's probably what parenting is, but it's not like directing a movie. Oh, Jimbo. Oh, Jimbo. But yeah, that's, that's a funny thing that kind of keeps happening. And I do want to say, yeah, with Sam Worthington, Zoe's in there, and then Kate Winslet, who I did not know those. Kate Winslet. Yeah. And then I saw that she's kind of the queen of the water people. Cliff Curtis, who we love. He plays the king of the water people. Oh, yeah. Stephen Lang an actor I like. Who? Giovanni Ribisi shows up in a scene that looks like it was shot in 29. Yeah. No. And he gets billing. Yeah, exactly. He does. That's a good paycheck. You know, He got paid for that. Yeah. Yeah. The cast, most inexplicably. I don't know. They are, I don't know the set up and I haven't looked it up but they introduced in those first 10 minutes very quickly that there is like a a child clone type thing that is Sigourney Weaver's child but character child. But this 14 year old, by the time we get to Avatar two is played by Sigourney Weaver. And, you know, Yeah, yeah, you told me this is like right before we started this podcast and because I was looking and I was even looking up to see who played her right, and I'm looking there, I was like, Why is it this person? I don't know who I don't know. I don't know who this actor is. And then he told me, Sigourney Weaver, I'm like, She did not play her. Yeah. And that did take me out a little bit. Not just a few, even though like, Oh, wow, that's okay. That's a big choice because she doesn't sound like a 14 year old girl necessarily. But teaming up, it's an aliens reunion. So she was in Avatar using him. Yeah, but still. But, you know, let's just really quick just give a shout out to Sigourney Weaver because I always loved her. She's a legend. Oh, yeah. She's like a true, true legend. Like in a time where, like, she's a trailblazer for so much. Yes. And she's just done great work throughout her entire life and career. I've always loved her. And she does so much theater like she is a true, true actor. And I just don't think that she's talked about in regards to and like, you know, we've got people like Meryl Streep and like there are certain iconic women in this business that have been around, and rightfully so. But I always feel like she belongs in that tier and she doesn't really ever kind of get talked about maybe that she's happy with that because she's not in that level of fame, but because she does a lot of other work outside. Yes. Yeah. Outside of just this industry, which I respect highly. And I think she's just I think like respect. And Sigourney Weaver just go hand in hand, Sam, right there. Right. Well said. This podcast was never going to be like your detailed breakdown of Avatar two, and we'll get into the final like action set piece. We're not going to spoil you know, the fate of characters. I'm not going to do anything like that. But to get to our final battle here, it's, you know, they found where Jake is. So they've come and they want him and. Kittridge There's some really good dialog there when he's like, You know better than test my resolve. Like when he's holding the gun to the kids, to the kid's head. Yeah. And that's what he wants. He has a few of his kids at this point. Quidditch has a few of Jake's kids at this point. And come over here. Fight me. Turn yourself in. I'll give them over. So it's that whole thing and there is a massive final battle that ensues with help from the whales, namely that outcast whale. And this is one of the because at first thing when they're fucking Pandora, it's very fast on purpose. It's like boom, boom. But this final battle is like, again, 45 minutes an hour. It's just one of the best things he's done. I think it's even longer than that. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's it's a long and I agree that is just well there's like scene like battle scene one A and then there's a little reprieve, you know, where your sisters and then Yeah. And then it kicks up again as as it often does. But I mean again he's echoing like it when the whales are involved. There are very deliberate nods to tie to Titanic during that final fight. Very deliberate nods to the end of T2. It's just it's a joy to watch for any action fan and Big Jim fan. Well, yeah, I mean, and he loves that. He loves these high octane and just balls to the wall action endings. I mean, even like Titanic, like the last like a little bit less than half of that movie is all just about that ship going down and it's it's just awesome. It is. It really is. And so this really is no different. But and it's just nonstop. Nonstop. And you and you never get tired of it. I was just on the edge of my seat and we suddenly were talking about two is like, you don't see too much gunplay these days. And this is just a classic nineties shoot em up, right type like action sequence where I mean, there's so much going on, there's like a lot of different sequences happening all at the same time, but you've got gunplay going the way in which I personally just found very refreshing. Yeah, it is something that a lot of you know, the industry as a whole seems to have turned down like, yes, turn the volume down on a lot. And even he has come out since Avatar two has been released. He said he cut out a lot of the gun violence because he is, you know, pro-gun control and it seems like he kind of has an issue even in the amount of gunplay in this movie. So I think they'll give him Avatar three to do. At the very least, this is going to make enough money. And he sounds like he's shot most of it anyway. The the live action stuff. Yeah. Actors. He's got to do the effects and stuff. Dan, who our audience is now familiar with, told me that he his like first cut or story of Avatar three is like 9 hours and that he wants to do visual effects for all of it. Oh my God They'd edit the movie down for that. I don't know. That's true. But it, you know, that wouldn't be beyond Big Jim Law. But yeah, great. I mean, just a fantastic set piece to end with but emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Like let's it I'll get that. Yeah. There are some real emotional stakes like the wailing scene that's like really, really brutal. But we've skirted around Big Jim a lot on this podcast. He got to mention in our very first episode, because Terminator two is one of your favorite films of all time. Love him, right? Let's get into his career. He doesn't have a he doesn't have a career of many films, but he has a career of much, much distinction. Yeah, we're going to go through them, including the very, very first one that he has disowned. I want to start a question here, though. Okay. Let me just go through all of them in order. Piranha two was made in 1982. He only directed about 10% of that and then he was fired. He's completely written it off. I do not count it. It's part of his filmography. I'm a huge fan of Joe Dante's original, but this movie was just a silly cash grab job, so that's really the only thoughts I have. I'm proud to. So then real quick, his filmography The Terminator 1984 Aliens 86, The Abyss 89. Terminator two, 1991. True Lies 94. Titanic 1997. Avatar 2009. Avatar The Way Water 2022. Question for you Before we get started, Avatar two is going to be nominated for Oscars. That's a safe bet. Only one Big Jim film has not been nominated for a single Academy Award. Don't count on two. That's that's okay. If only one has not been nominated. Not been nominated. I'm going to say first Terminator. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. Good job. I really surprised me though. It didn't get any for visual effects. And I don't know, that's just like a a bummer that surprises me. But I ask that because it'll lead us to talk about the Terminator, which we can which very cool story. I visited you in L.A. a few times in 2022, but one time I did and I said, Here's what we're going to do. We are going to go to the New Beverly Cinema, Tarantino's Theater. I have already bought his tickets, but I'm not going to tell you what it's for. And we're just going to go and sit down. And you didn't find out until they were introducing it, but it was still it was such a cool way to see it. 35 It was so awesome. And I was so surprised because you kept it from me for like a long time. Yeah. Yeah, I seen the Terminator. Yeah, it was awesome. Die hard, loyal. What do you watchers fucking Dan came up with? What are you watching? She said it's perfect. I'm still going to see my man. Movie buffs. Yeah. Can't believe we have to give him credit for. So it felt good. So diehard loyal fans of the podcast of them Will, if you really go back we talked about this I think one other time where James Cameron was my very first like I like as a kid, I would watch his movies all the time, right? He is like, there's he's my first director because I love all of his movies so much. So without James Cameron, there is no Nick to go. And so so that's how much I love him. I know that's how much he's like career has meant to me and the Terminator. He got really sick like, like a flu or some type of, like, crazy illness with a fever that he just could not break. He was, like, delirious in a fever. And he had a dream of, like, this burning flame effigy. And then from it is this robotic, like skeleton, like, you know. Yeah. And he said that that image is what? Like he was like, I have to, like, this needs to be something. Damn right. And, and that was the basis for the Terminator. But crazy. But I mean, you just it's just a cool concept is like, okay, like this robot comes from the future to kill like the woman who's going to birth the savior of, like, the future world. Because the world ends. Right? Right, exactly. It's I always say the Terminator is a horror movie more than anything else. This is this is going to be my next prompt for you, because when we were just talking about we actually got to rewatch one of his movies right before we fired this up. We'll get to that. But you said you mentioned to me that when you think of Terminator, you have this like fear about it. And it's very yeah, like a like a scary movie. I want to I want to hear more about. Well, it's like, well, when we talk about how like I think James Cameron is so good at cutting to the core of something very simple. And this is humans like it's a lot, but it's it's something meaningful. And I think there's something about the Terminator that is truly scary, about a very scary looking grown man. He's dark, the shadows, menacing clothes. Like this guy coming after you is scary. Yeah, because there's you. He cannot be stopped. He can't stop with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he will not stop ever till you are dead in your Michael b the the card is the beaver eyes. Oh, I got the skin I'll build for the cyborgs. Oh, he just goes for it. It's this laundry list. Oh, God, I love him. So that is just a very, very scary situation. And also it's very voyeuristic. There is something about like this guy hunting a woman, right? That is. And that whole beginning until Michael Biehn gets there. Yeah, it is really just watching this creepy dude search for this girl. Yeah. And it's it's uncomfortable, it's disturbing, it's unsettling. And so I think that's more of a horror film than anything else. And then you get to the action of it. All right, I've mentioned this before, but I've seen Terminator two so many more times than the Terminator. Just it was around all the time. And T2 was just by way of saying it was so fun to see this in the theater. It was so cool just to be locked into it and be like, Oh yeah, I remember all this. I remember I rewatched it. We did like the Michael Biehn pod, which was like Pod seven or eight way, way back. But yeah, Terminator fucking love it. You know, the big you know, James Cameron's always got his lines. Yes. You know, every one of his movies has got some cheesy. I'll be back. Yeah, exactly Line. But do you remember like because he does this in a few of his movies, do you remember, like the last line that she says to him? Like, it's like the big like the big, like rah rah line that she says, The Terminator. Yeah. She didn't say you've been terminated. No. Oh, you're terminated, fucker. Oh that's. Oh yes, yes, yes. She Terminator fucker. That's right. The fucker is great. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that because I remember that because we'll get into aliens when we do it. Because there's a line in that. Yeah. Yeah. We just watch a movie that he's got. He does this. I love this. Final, final send up Aliens 1986. Why someone would want to remake like a masterpiece from 1979. Ridley Scott's not a remake. It's a sequel. Let me start over. Yeah. God, I'm so stupid alien that I'm right. No, it was. I misspoke. Aliens 1986. Why Anyone would want to make a sequel to a wildly popular, some might say masterpiece 1979, directed by Ridley Scott Aliens, in which everyone is great. And that's a great film. Excellent watching it. I would consider that more of like, sci fi horror. Oh, yes. Literally, you're picking them off one at a time. That's what's happening. And then we get to this balls to the wall, really like war action movie. Aliens, aliens and do we have the debate of which one you like better? Does it matter? Or. I've stood by this just being the way that I grew up in. The fan of James Cameron personally, I. I will take aliens over Alien, sure, But because they're such different types of movies, I think Alien the first one is a far superior movie. Yeah, it's the Ridley Scott directs the shit out of that. Yeah. And if there wasn't that, you couldn't do aliens, right? Aliens is definitely more fun. There's more just, like, brouhaha stuff. But yeah, tell me about. Tell me about aliens. Oh, cause I know what is there to say. I love so much about it. I mean, you got Michael Biehn. You got, you got you got Bill Paxton. I mean, you've got these rising. Yeah. Paul Reiser I mean, it's a great cast and it's just a it's just awesome. James Horner does the music for it and still one of my favorite scores of all time. We talked about that on a previous episode, of course. Yeah, we did. Going back to the Sigourney Weaver conversation, she was nominated for best Actress for this for the Oscar. That should not be overlooked. That's a big deal and well-deserved. And the way that she like in the first one, she is our hero. She's our protagonist. We don't know that really, but we don't know that until people are. It's just basically it's just her in the alien in that last awesome sequence. But this is a movie where we kind of get our first real bad ass woman. Yeah, Hero like she And you believe it, too. Like, this does not feel silly. This does not feel like someone's swinging for it. Like. Like it's. Sigourney Weaver owns this role and this attitude, and. And I love how he bases it in a mother daughter thing. This is, again, what James Cameron is really good at, is he cuts to the very simple human core. This is mother daughter and there is a primal need to defend. And he puts that even in the aliens like when we get to the queen. Yeah, that's it. Oh, my God. Well, one of the one of the great action and slash Big Jim set pieces, you know, I mean, you know, every just Okay, this okay, this is a great way to talk about aliens because we're talking about Avatar. So aliens, you watch this movie for its special effects. It's fucking flawless. Yeah. Yeah. These aliens are scary as fuck. You really are. You see the drool, the acid, the slime. When the eggs break open, these face huggers come at you. It's terrifying. Terrifying. Like. And they give you these closeups where it's like, Yeah, of course. Sound like you truly feel like these things are going to attack you as an audience right now. He's come and done that all the way to go on the other side to create something like Avatar That's actually really fucking cool. That's awesome that he's reached this level where now he is working with no practical Yeah, works but came from a place and we'll get into more of his action sequences in the movies. We're about to talk about where he was the master of this then and now. He is the only one doing this now. Yeah, he's the only one. Like creating this whole world from scratch video and the action is still as effective. It's just as effective. Yes, it is. It's crazy. This Now we come up to my favorite James Cameron movie to talk about, which is the Abyss. Yeah, 1989 favorite Cameron. I don't know. Well, we can talk about that. But I do think this contains the best acting in any Cameron film. I think. Oh, stories and acting and like character in this are so strong. I mean, Ed Harris trying to revive Mary Elizabeth Mastriano is one of my favorite scenes ever. The intensity is so it's just so palpable and few things to say about this. One, like the making of this movie, is incredible because he just put them all through like pure and utter hell to the point where, you know, Mary Elizabeth has vowed to never work with them again. Same with Ed Harris. They're like, I'm done. Mary Elizabeth didn't even do press for the movie because she thought it was so grueling. James Horner said that. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Exactly. So the abyss is so strange for a number of reasons. It is one of my favorites. And I have this special edition director's Cut DVD. This movie's never been released on Blu ray. That's still really, really wild but crazy. This is probably one of the reasons why this is my favorite Big Jim movie to talk about. It is this is my favorite original cut verse director's cut conversation, because director's cut is so much miles in a way better to me, and it includes so many expensive special effects that I just can't believe he did it and then decided to cut it. I don't know if it was the studio's idea, his idea, but if you haven't seen this movie or you haven't seen it in a while and don't know the distinction of the difference, definitely go rewatch it because the director's cut is like, I just thought it was a great, great ending. That subject summed up his whole kind of ethos on humanity and how he thinks about all this shit that we're talking about. I agree. I think that's I think it's one of his more personal movies. Yes. I think he's got a lot to say personally with this one. Interesting. The thing is, the best acted like to me, I think Ed Harris is fantastic. He is Elvis. Yeah. He's so good. And, you know, and it it's got so many different components at play like there's parts of it that very much like the thing you know, the way that these people are trapped with each other, there's a paranoia is a little bit like alien to it. Sure sure won't Michael being so convincingly like loses his mind like yes, he's at each passing minute, he's becoming more and more twisted. He's like going over to the dark side where even his fellow grunts are like, Hey, man, like, I don't know, this isn't I don't think this is that big of a thing. It's also one of the first movies where we see Michael Biehn pull off a goddamn good mustache. Oh, he has a great session. And John, so good. Michael Biehn fucking. Yeah, he's him in hair. It's like working off together. It's really, Really. But even like Ed Harris, his whole crew, the way they all talk to each other like these, I just love them. I like these union workers or something. Yes, like run oil drillers. I don't know. They just make me laugh. But I yeah, that that is always been very highly ranked for me. Little thing. When I was a kid, I was not. I mean, I was 12 when Titanic became a thing and I was like anti Titanic because I'm 12 and I didn't care. And I'm like, I don't like James Cameron. I don't want to I don't want to talk about it anymore or whatever, just in in a little, little mood. And then I remember seeing the abyss for the first time and being like, Oh, no, I do like this director. I like him a lot. Oh, and that is the guy that made Terminator two. Okay? I like him a lot. Forget it. Yeah. I even said anything, though. This does have one of the best examples of some of the cheesiest James Cameron dialog ever. Yeah, true. Like when, when, when, when, when he's at the very end, like he's going down in pressure and they're only communicating through like text basically. Yeah. And some of the things that they're writing to each other are just things that is that human beings say, yeah, very basic. There's so, there's so cheesy because sometimes James Cameron's dialog is a little cheesy. James Cameron's films have been nominated for a shitload of Oscars. They have won a ton, never received a nomination for best Screenplay, never once know him or his movies. And that is very telling. And that must that's got to weigh on him. And some I mean, like it has he writes all of his own shit. Exactly. But his I think it's his ideas are the are the thing. Yeah. Got a guy like knows how he gets to us it's emotional way because it's it's not through the dialog. Yeah yeah exactly it's not and that's that's probably part of it is like the ideas and execution are top notch. But then like some of those like finer points are just a little off of the script. Yeah. And that's one of the things that's so. Forgive about him. Yes. Yes. By the take it to a Big Jim movie, we understand that character dialog are not going to be the strongest assets. Yes. Okay. But relationships are relationships are very strong Terminator two. The next film here is a great example of that because that is such I mean, I would honestly that this one just works like I think everything about it works. I know we know how much you love it and I love it too, but it works to the point where I fired up. I got it on 4K. I wrote it up yesterday and we were watching some of it, just the some of the action scenes, you know, the the chase at the mall and into the L.A. River. Everything about it still holds up. It's kind of one that like, what more is there to say because it's a perfect action film. It was the second R-rated film I ever saw, and I've watched it on repeat ever since. And I don't really think there's a weak aspect to this one. Genuinely, there isn't favorite gun moment. Nick Oh yeah. Oh, that sounds like all right. Yes, it does. I don't know how to explain it so well. So it's in the very end there. You played on the Saving Private Ryan commentary. Oh, I did, yes. Yes. It was a little bit that you asked me my favorite gun, but I was like, What the fuck are you talking about from any movie? And that you said to it, I was like, Damn, that's a great choice. Oh, no. It stands on the end of the street lights, a million lights Robert Patrick up. Like another thing about this movie, like, even when we were watching it yesterday, the effects still look great. Oh, this movie, they do, They do. They hold so good. And you can still show this one to anyone like if they haven't seen it, even if it's a younger person, you know, you want to show them like a good R-rated action movie. They're getting to that age. This is going to wow the hell out of them still, you know, in a lot of these action sequences that make such a big deal of why we kind of kind of like turn our heads a little bit to CGI these days is because, you know, we just bring it back to that last chase scene where it's a truck versus a helicopter. And I always use this as the analogy is like there is a scene where all the helicopter does is it just goes up in the air, kind of nosedives so it can go underneath a bridge, comes back up, and then continues the chase. Now, there is no action that's really happening, you know, but the excitement of watching this real thing do this. Yes. And we know the bad guys in it. Yes. Watch it, because it does two things where it's like, wow, this guy is so good. He's unstoppable. Right. And he's pulling off this maneuver. But you're also just watching a real helicopter nosedive underneath an overpass. And it's so cool. And then and it shoots back up like if you were to watch a CGI helicopter in the exact same action sequence, do the same thing, you are not even going to think you're not going to remember it. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. You've seen it cause it's going to look. Yes. Yes. The the, the reality. And that's why these chase scenes are so good is because we're so on the edge of our seat. Because it's really happening. Yeah. We can put ourselves in the situation of the characters and feel what's going on in these big action movies now where they replace those effects with the digital ones. We miss out on that. We just get the understanding and it doesn't drill all the way in and it's a big problem. I think the the motorcycle being chased by the Mack truck in the L.A. River. Yeah. Arnold does this one thing where he's chased them from behind the motorcycle. He's got to get around the chase. He's just got to get around the truck, Love it. And it turns out it's so simple. It's an obstacle. Yes. He's like, Shit, I need to get to the kid in front of this big object that's going back and forth. I'm on an object. I can do it too, and I'm a little smaller. I can use it to my advantage. And he just makes a move. Yep. The music rises. You don't think he's going to make it? You don't think he's going to make it because it's physics? Yeah, it's just something closing in and you're on the edge of your goddamn and it's like these practical things, that's all. Like, real. I mean. I mean, you. There's stunt doubles. Yeah, there's like that. But those aren't fake bikes and stuff. Like they're out there doing. They're fucking doing it. And, like, that's movie fucking magic right there. Yeah. And Cameron is the best at it can go. Going back to the helicopter scene, we also reference out on the same private commentary because I listen to the Big Jim commentary for that movie and he's with I think it's his writer or fellow producers doing the commentary with him. He's like, You know how it must be? The writer is like, you know how we drove, you know, we flew that helicopter under the bridge. How we flew helicopter under the bridge. Yeah, it's but like, that's so dangerous, they didn't want to do it. The studio didn't want to. The stunt people didn't want to. And he's like, No, we are doing it. So figure out how to do it, because this is this is what we're doing. And Big Jim, by all accounts, I think he's gotten a little easier to work with with age. But back in this time period, not an easy guy to work with. Those demands that you put on everyone, the crew, the cast himself, that's how you get I mean, we're still talking about this movie includes me in 1991, will always be talking about T2. Always. That was one of the first 4K movies I bought. When I got my 4K player, I was like, I got to do this oh three years later, he makes True Lies, One of my favorite films from him. Probably the least discussed James Cameron movie. And I want to tell you, we just this movie, like literally finished it right before we put on this part. And we watched it in the way Big Jim intended. Watch it on a streaming app called Peacock. I believe it was presented in four $0.20 It looked literally like a transfer of the VHS I owned in 1995 as a kid. It has these horribly timed fades to black for commercial breaks. But there weren't commercial commercial breaks. The movie rocks. It was just it was so good. One of the worst transfers I've ever seen, especially on a 4K TV. And we're I mean, we were just dying laughing like I started it and I went, let me see, this isn't even available to rent on YouTube. I don't own the DVD because I've been waiting for the Blu ray, which does not exist like The Abyss. It's so fucking weird to me. True lies. It's a possibility that. But it was just what a way to watch. Awesome. And it was the worst I've ever seen. Like since we've gone into the streaming services I've never seen. Oh, yeah. Like, that's the worst streaming movie I've seen period from anyone. And it is a James Cameron movie. Yeah. Like you have. If you're someone who has Peacock, just fire it up for like 2 seconds. It'll look bad on your phone, I promise. Oh, yeah, it looks terrible. There's that aspect of true lies I do want to talk about. Because you said you hadn't seen this one. It's been a while. Yeah, and I watch this one. This one was on repeat as a kid. I had a few friends who owned it. We all loved it. We watch it constantly. One thing I want to call out about this, this to me is Cameron's funniest film, 100%, and he seems to have lost his sense of humor a bit in his movie making. Titanic has I mean, there's some things, but like Avatar and Avatar, the way water, not many laughs in those, you know, not on purpose. Yeah, well, Spider. Yeah. True lies. We were we were laughing out loud a lot. A lot of that is because of the Arnold Arnold, the chemistry between Schwarzenegger and Tom Guy. He's the star of the movie and his one liners. I straight. Oh, my God. We were just. We were. But what did you think? Rewatching? And then I mean, okay, we'll get we'll get to What did you think? You know, having just seen it again? Well, I just thought it was a lot of fun. It is funny, but what I liked more about it was actually less about the action sequences and more about the the whole infidelity that part of the story is just so entertaining. It's so much fun. But I mean, the actually, he were great. He's on a horse in an elevator. Yeah, the horse. The elevator motorcycle chase. I love that one. Starts with the the bathroom fight. It just keeps going. And then suddenly you're on the skyscraper, which was not shot in DC. But that's okay. We got to talk about Bill Paxton. I know. Yeah, we got to get to Bill. That's. I was looking for a good, good segway to. Part of it might be because we lost him, but that is one of my favorite things in a James Cameron movie. Just that whole section you're talking about, like from when we meet him and then, you know, pretended to be a spy driving that damn car round. This is it was real. Like just star watching shit. He's absolutely owning what he's doing. You know, I want to say this because we do this a lot where when someone's past, we refer, we we talk about them more fondly. I can confidently say yes, that I am number one. I hate that he is gone. Yes, but I have revered him. Yeah. And I've talked about him the exact same way. I have celebrated Bill Paxton since he's been alive. No, you have. One of our first conversations was about him, and he was like one of your guys. And I've always loved him, too. Like, I love Paxton. That was. That was a real damn shame when. When that happened. Yes, it was. Yes. You've always. Your admiration has only grown, but you were always, always a big thing. Always. Whenever he shows up in anything as like this movie just got so much better. Do you think this is his best role in a Cameron movie or is it game over? Me and I think it's got to be Hudson Yeah, there's Hudson is just so one of a kind. Yeah. Like just the way that he starts from being so pompous, right, to turning into such a chicken. Yeah, he really is. But then coming back at the end, kind of like, you want to call your motherfucker, break it. So it is so into it. Oh, God, I love him so much. But this. This would have to be number two. I'm such a slimeball. I mean, this stuff is coming out of its mouth that we can't repeat on this podcast. Well, the one line was great. When they're, you know, he's. He's tried to save his life. He's like the ghost of old Dick. I didn't remember that. Like, so great. It's so funny. I just we talked about like, you know, because at this point now, because James Cameron is so hard to, like, work with. Yeah. At this point, I think Bill Paxton has probably worked with him more than anybody else. Yes. Yeah. And and so, you know, they must be friends on some type of level. So when James Cameron's writing this scene, you know, there's a guy who's pleading for his life. He's like, one of the things I could say, what what am I going to have Bill say? Yeah, I'm going to say I got a little dick and that you made for Bill Paxton getting the script and being like, God damn Jan be trying to kill me out here. Come on, man. Another theme that we we said we were going to go back to as much as possible. Child abandonment. We have the daughter saying, True. I just. It's true. Jamie Lee gets the call. She got to go to the hotel to be Doris. And, you know, it's this whole ruse. So she jets off. And then clearly Arnold had somehow us to get there faster, so he jets off even quicker. What happens to the kid? I guess they just keep her at home and then, yes, she does end up being kidnaped by terrorists. But it's like, what? They never even talk about her like kidnaped. They get take it off and you know, there's the new kid, all that stuff, that whole act, everything happens from that point on. Yeah. The way until the bridge blows up. Right. And then tomorrow just goes up to him. He goes, they got Dana. Yeah. I said, oh, oh yeah. My daughter. Yeah. I'm thinking of time. I'm like, Yeah, of course they did, because there was no one watching. Yeah, she was just left it all boys just, you know, while you went out to go do some, like, weird sexual tryst with your wife like then just that by the bad guys and then have the whole entire thing, like she's gone for a whole night and day. Yeah, it's just like. Yeah. And they don't show how they got her either, so, you know, but it's like, it makes sense. You just left your kid and now it's now she's gone. John Connor, too, might deserve to be in this as well. I mean, she's, you know, she's gone. She didn't abandon him, but she got she got took. Yeah, but he's on his own. Yeah. Yeah, but it's not my mom. Tad Titanic. Ooh. 1997. I'm excited that we never talk about this. We haven't. We haven't. Yeah, he. You know, this was. If anyone's lost sight of this or you weren't, you know, you weren't born yet. This was only thing people were talking about for like a fucking year at least. And that's because I'm talking about it. They were talking about it negatively. Yes. Everyone was like, This is going to fail. It's going to be a disaster. It went almost like all this crazy, crazy shit doubled the budget, doubled the amount of shooting time. Cameron's putting up half of his own, half of the budget himself with his own damn money. So if it takes, he's, you know, going to be broke. If if what he thought would happen eventually did happen does, then he's going to be a gazillionaire. So he took the biggest ever gamble on himself. And boy, did it pay off. Whether you like the movie or not, there's no denying that this is one of the seminal American films. It just is. I don't think people could really understand unless you were alive for it. Yeah, because I know that there's more movie there's movies now that have made more money then it's no longer the biggest film of all time. Yeah, but it was for a while. But I cannot like it was until Avatar. Well, yes, but that would get out. Yeah, but yeah, the pandemonium. It was everywhere movie for a year. This I mean I've in my lifetime I've never experienced this. Never. And you got to remember, this is before you could buy your tickets online early. You do that. I'm telling you, this is a long movie. People are waiting and we multiplexes were a thing, but Titanic wasn't playing in as many theaters as Avatar two. Where is it AMC right now? I literally think I think that's a 14 screener and it's on eight other screens. Titanic was on like two or three screens, but you would have to wait for hours. You would have to wait for hours. Yeah. And when it finally came out on VHS. Oh, my God, the blockbuster was open until midnight. Yeah. And taking reserved like they had to like, you had to preorder a double cassette of. Yes. Yes, they had a commercial with shit break from American Pie before he was famous. Oh, my God. It's like two blockbuster clerks, like, sweeping the aisles, getting everything ready, and then the line of people about to burst down the door. All for the Titanic movie. This movie was it. It was the biggest thing I had ever seen. Yeah, I have not seen it since. I know Marvel is huge. It's different, but it's different. Marvel is also even, you know, we're not going to we don't talk shit about Marvel. We don't do that. I know respected people like those movies. However, even if you love them and they are your be all and all, you have to admit that those are for a niche audience. Like my dad doesn't see Marvel movies. Grandparents don't see Marvel movies. They don't. Everyone saw Titanic and everyone saw it, and no one there was not the pandemonium for any of the Marvel movies that could even equate to the year long discussion. Like, I mean, it was just everywhere. Billy Zane was getting attacked on the streets. It ended Leo's career for a bit. Yeah, it did. I mean, he had to go and he has to go to Haiti. Like hiding. Yeah, he's this really weird Woody Allen movie Celebrity the year after. And then he, like, goes into hiding, makes the beach. He don't. I just want to point out to people who might not know America hated Leo. You hated him. Yeah, because this is all true. This is all true. He came off of Romeo and Juliet as the teen heartthrob, right? He had done good work. Basketball. Basketball. There is what's eating Gilbert Grape. People were not disputing this part of it. But here was just this heartthrob kid. This kid cannot lead an epic movie. This kid cannot do this. Yeah. And everyone was just sick of him. I was too like I was on that train. Unfortunately, they were just said as a 12, I am not going to pay for a Leonardo DiCaprio movie. Yep. Yep. And the press was doing this. The press were being jerks to Cameron, Leo, everyone. Yeah. This shot him into the stratosphere. The highest you can go at the time. Like you had all of the top A-listers of that time. Brad Pitt, who also America hated Keanu. Yeah, These were his fellow people. He was a little bit younger. Johnny Depp, like all these people. But when he went here, we you talk about tabloids and like paparazzi, Leo faced it all, like in a very short time, Like he went from being one of the up and comer guys to a guy that's like, I wouldn't want Leo's level of fame, right? Yeah. No one wanted to see him do anything. He did the beach. No one wanted to see it. He did that Woody Allen movie. No one want to see it. So he did a very smart move and just be like, You know what? I'm going to remove myself from all of that. I mean, to let people forget Leonardo DiCaprio and then when I come back, I'm going to work with Scorsese. Spielberg, I'm going to become Scorsese's guy. Yeah, I work with Spielberg. I'm only going to work with directors that are going to do. And it was a business decision. Yeah, calculated, very business decision that was so smart. And that's when he became the Leo that we know and have today. Yeah. And it's because of Titanic and like, both positive and negative. Like, yeah, it's all because of this how he took the negative reaction before and after it and use that to his advantage by just of chilling out, not spinning out. We didn't hear like too many crazy stories about him, you know, or if any And yeah, it was it was really smart the way he played it. Same with Kate Winslet, who had a huge career after. Oh yeah. Well, you know, she just she was in demand. Everyone loved Kate. Yeah, she was in-demand overnight. No one gave her shit, and Leo was just shunned. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, is if you watch it, he's great. He is fucking great in this. Yeah, he. I mean, I think some of I see some early acting is not the strongest part of the movie. No, that's okay. That's okay. But the relationships again. Yeah, yeah, the the relationships really mean something and I'm. I don't want to put a blanket statement over the acting because like Kathy Bates in that boat saying, oh, those are your men out there like that. Still like I'm getting goosebumps Just yeah, I'm getting goosebumps thinking about that. Really. The goose bumps is that vision that really means like something and I, I was so hard on the movie for so long because, like, did you like it in 97? I loved it. Okay. So I was I was a fan. I liked the action scenes, but I was like L.A. Confidential kid, Good Will Hunting for sure, because no one else is talking about any other movie leading up in the year leading up to it. Titanic comes out in December. This thing did not leave theaters for months now, so really it dominated most of the 1998 conversation. Like when this is winning Oscars in February, March, it's still in the theaters. And then this summer, VHS thing happens. So the movie didn't go away and I just got like burnt out. Yes. And stuff. Beyonce got burnt out. I got really pissed off when Shakespeare in Love won the next year. And I was like, Man, am I done with the Oscars? Like sucks and kind of honestly turning my back on it. Like, I get it. It's Titanic. I love I love once the iceberg hits everything to the end, like I get it. And then I don't think I'd seen it in a really long time. And I went back to see it in that 3D conversion. Did not like that. Oh no, that's not going to work. But then I think I've even watch it a few times just for this podcast for different things like twice because it was on, it's usually on the streaming app and it's really good. It is just a really good fun movie. It's very long, but I don't really I think if you say this is the James Cameron film, I think it's a good argument and I can't really like argue on it. I mean, the most nominated film in Oscar history tied with some other films. He wins best director wins Best Picture. If you say like this is this was his his peak. Like he got to actually do this because the another thing that I want to hammer home is you definitely talked about Leo and how he was hated. No one believed that James Cameron could do this like no one. And he was really believing in himself and a few of his bruisers going like, okay, we'll see. And then I wonder again in our lifetimes if will ever see a craze like this, a movie craze. Because if you if people listening think like, well, The Force Awakens, like it made more money, like Avatar was a big deal. It wasn't nothing like this. Nothing, nothing. And what's crazy is we we were hearing about Titanic constantly, and we didn't even have the Internet yet, like it was in very, very early stages. So the Internet was not part of the discourse here. It was just everyone's talking about it. Your teachers, your fellow classmates, everyone, people you played sports with, everyone everywhere. And everyone had. An opinion. Yeah. And everyone saw it. Because if you didn't see it, then you couldn't talk about it at your Christmas party or whatever it was like you had to see it to talk about it and it's such a different time now. So because this movie would have come out and then opinions would have been made and then people would not go see it. Yeah. And then to run with those opinions without seeing it, this was not that case. This was everyone went and then people either loved it or they hated it. And then they went again. Yeah, Yeah. Which I saw like two or three times I could stop going. Yeah. I took my grandmother who never movie theater. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. People. Yes. This was one that you could take Grandma to. And he made it that way. Like he did that on purpose. I just remember, I mean, 12 years old, PG 13. Oh, boobies. I got accused, by the way, by a girl in sixth grade because she's like, Nick, have you only seen Titanic so many times because of Kate Winslet And I and I it but honestly, the thing was, was like being a kid and trying to be cool. That was actually the only response. I didn't want to go and say, no, it's because I love the movie. I go, Oh yeah, she was because Bruce because of, of, of a previous in Kid. What does that teach us about us? Like how boys are viewed? It's better news. It's better to admit that. But really quick. Yes. No, Billy Zane, You love him, dude. I mean, you talk about like like he's one of the great assholes. Like, he's such an asshole. This gal, that's hell. What's his last name? Fuck, I should know. Kal, it's Cal Hockley. Cal Hockley, is it Cal? I think it's. I think it's Cal looking. All right, while we're here, you keep going. I'll look it up. The. You're wrong. I know, I know. I feel like there is very, very few movie villains that have existed in time. And this I mean, this there's Darth Vader called in Cal Hockley. Yes. Good job. Yes, there's Darth Vader. There's Nurse Ratchet who's like there some hated, hated and known hated Darth Vader. They just love to hate Darth Vader. Sure. But people hated Nurse Ratchet. People truly hated Billy Zane's character in this movie. He was he's I truly believe he does not get credit for portraying one of the most hated characters in any movie ever. He's a great asshole, great straight asshole, and he's good at it, too. Like, that's the thing. Like, you almost relish all of the things. My fiancee. My fiancee at Jason after. Oh God, he got like, I mean, hate mail. Like, I remember he was on a talk show. Hosts are not talk show hosts he was I might be wrong about this, but I believe he was on the Rosie O'Donnell show and he came out and got booed like like, you know, no one does. Yeah, of course. But he came out and Rose is like, wow, you got a lot of like people here who love you. And he's like, almost like if I ever call it just like, just, just a movie, you know? But this was the attention he was getting people. He said people were throwing trash and rotten fruit at him at the street. Who does that anymore? Seriously, who would have a character who hates a character that much? Right. I just can't stress enough that this was what was going on during this time. It was a crazy time and it's a walk off Titanic here it is. It's a walk off. So I did share some news with you that, Oh, Big Jim, I love you. Some Titanic related news here. I'm I'm going to read this from a press release or other articles. I'm reading some facts and quotes from it. But Cameron has recently commissioned a scientific study to prove that it would be impossible for both Jack and Rose to float on the wood in the end to disprove the theory the scientific study employed a hypothermia expert in forensic analysis of the situation through placing two people with, quote, the exact same body mass of Kate and Leo on an reproduction of the door featured in the film. Here's a quote from Big Jim. I can't wait. We put sensors all over them and inside them, and we put them in ice water and tested to see whether they would have survived through a variety of methods. And the answer was there was no way they both could have survived. The documentary will air February on National Geographic, and the intentions are clear for Cameron, who who commented, Maybe after 25 years, I won't have to deal with this anymore. So stay tuned for that documentary, because this is the thing I think throughout more than anything in his career that he's gotten the emotion of that he's gotten the most shit for. Could both Jack and Rose fit on that door? Do you think that's too big or looks too small to me? He can't. It's going to wobble. They're going to topple over. I mean, I think that was the consensus that Leo's character justified for himself. You're watching movie like he tries and then there's like a moment of, like acceptance where he's like, they don't try that much, I guess. And no, they don't search for some other word. But you know, do I know I wasn't there. That has been the consensus is like, couldn't she have just moved over? Was there really not enough room? Could he was like £110 soaking wet over break. So professional wrestling I'll bring it. Always bring it back to wrestling. Yes. Is one of the most petty industries in the entire world. If not, I would like better say it might be petty than anything. This is a professional wrestling level of pettiness that this camera is loaded 25 years later. Just to end this argument. Any time someone brings it up from here on out, he'll be like, Watch the fucking Nat Geo. Doc, I did it. You know how much money I spent on this shit? You know how many different experiments I did? I did this for three years. Yeah, it's very petty, but it's one of the reasons why I love him. Just. I love it so much, and I love it. Scientific studies. There's. There's a but there's also a lesser known James Cameron reference in Entourage the these the popular HBO show where he plays itself. Yes. He plays himself. And I remember there is a scene where Aquaman he he directed command of the story and they're going to Sundance for it. And and these interviews are people are asking them like, Gemma, how's it feel to make like, the biggest of all time and all this? And he goes, Honestly, I just made because I wanted to make little girls cry. Little girls cry. Yeah. Yeah. What he's looking for Vinnie Chase. Yeah. He wants to cast him his Aquaman 12 years later. I mean, Titanic is a smash of smash. It stays at the top of the box office until in 2009. James Cameron's own knocks it out. And for a while there, until The Force Awakens one and two were Big Jim And that is crazy. I don't think that will ever happen again with another director unless, like Avatar two gets there again. Avatar, we've kind of talked about it. I honestly like kind of in his whole body of work, I would call it his least Rewatchable film. It's the one I've seen the least amount of times. I've only seen it twice. Don't know how much it holds up for me at home. Like this isn't one where I would buy the Blu ray. I don't. I don't feel it that really necessary. But what I did see in the theater opening weekend, I enjoyed the hell out of it. I had never seen 3D use like that. I really, really liked just the visual experience of it. But, you know, I really didn't have a desire to revisit it. So that's that. My thoughts on Avatar. Will Avatar The Way of Water find a home on streaming, on video, on Blu ray? Are people going to like be fire in this up like, okay, so Top Gun Maverick had a great run. It came out in May and Peters just released Paramount Plus evidently it is the most streamed movie of of like ever. I saw some crazy headline like that. I don't know but a lot of people are watching at home like people were ready for Maverick to get home and everyone who didn't go to the theater, they're watching over Christmas. Will that happen for Avatar two? I, I think it will at the offset of when it gets released, I think people will want to watch it again, because I think that maybe be out of curiosity to see if it holds up like if they've seen it in theaters and in 3D. Yeah, I think there is a general curiosity. Is this going to hold up, right? I don't think it will. I don't either. Not certainly not as well. Not as well. Well, and and I think there are those handful of people that just don't go to the theaters. Yeah, that will wait for this. But I don't think these movies are going to hold without that cinematic experience. So I don't know what that means for the longevity. I think it'll hit big when it first comes out. Everyone will watch it and I think everyone will be fizzled. Yeah, buy it. They'll be like, No, I mean, you had to see it in the theaters. Yeah, Yeah. Oscar Chances are going to be it'll be fun to track the Oscars like, are they going to nominate this for best picture? It's not going to. Of course they will. It you think? Okay, so if it's this nominating this end, maverick would be a big deal because you don't nominate two massive blockbusters like that. Do you think they both will? I hope so. Okay. So here's a bigger one. Is Big Jim getting in there for best director? I don't know, but I don't know if people seem to like the movie. I think he will. I think I think for the Oscars, I think I think he'll get nominated for best director. Yes. Yes. And actually that's a cool point to bring up for Avatar. Again, if you weren't around or weren't really paying attention, please do not overlook the fact that Avatar and James Cameron were very close to winning picture and director that year. Very, very close. It just so happened to turn out that he was up against his ex-wife, Kathryn Bigelow, who ended up winning best director and best picture. But I mean, James Cameron won the Golden Globe for best director and even said in his speech, I think Kathryn deserves this. And he wasn't. I mean, he was out there promoting the movie. But I don't I it would have been weird if Avatar won best picture. You know, it is it was close. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We did not know when we started that telecast what picture and director we're going to be. We either knew it wasn't going to be it was going to be split. I mean, I think it's in its achievement that Avatar means a lot. Yeah, I think so. James Cameron, you know, has been working on this thing for ten years. Yeah, I think that definitely earns an Oscar nom and what he actually achieved with it. The final product it stands on its its own merit. Do I think it's actually truly the best picture of the year. No I don't think too many people will. I don't think it'll have a chance to win any big award. And I think those it won't get a screenplay nomination picture. I'm a hard maybe director I'm actually going with you think get ten is going to get in there for ten yeah picture I can be sold on but director since it's only five names, I don't know. Do you think it will be a director or over? You think it'll be Avatar over Top Gun for Director? I don't think he has it. I don't think the director, Joseph Kosinski of Topgun has. I'm really in the running of. I don't think so either. I think, honestly, a lot of people view that as a Tom Cruise film and I think a lot of people think that he kind of directed and produced. And if you nominate Top Gun Maverick for picture, you're nominating Cruise as a producer. That's another fun thing. Are they going to give him a best actor nom? Like, I really, really hope so. I don't think they're I don't think they are, but oh, God, he would love it so much. You won't. You wouldn't win. But okay, here's a fun one. This is like the most what are you watching conversation ever? Top Gun, Maverick versus Avatar two for best Sound good. This is going to win. Yeah, I think Avatar two is going to walk away with sound. Okay, Now I just I guess this is this is such a nit picky thing. I know, but it's fun. It is fun because, like, the the river talks about sound. No one talks about sound. So we're doing it. Everything about the set of Avatar is fucking awesome. The movie making of Avatar is just on another level. But the sound of Top Gun man, I know I love them both so much. I was like, so like, is influenced emotionally by the sound of of what was going on Top gun that I just I if I had to give the Oscar to one or the other, I'd give it to top Gun. I will be interested to see how they battle out in those quote unquote below the line Oscars you know sound. Yeah it's between the two production design cinematography now but this is where I hold up a finger. As you can see, others are what you watchers can't. Yes. How okay. The valid question here. Yes. How is Avatar cinematography? And my friend Mario, 41, best cinematography for Avatar. And I know was very bizarre to a lot of people, including myself. So. So what are we doing here? Obviously, this is a I mean, this is avenue. He uses cameras to make the movie we know that before he gets the capture of the actors. But this is like we've said over and over in this podcast that we love that he created a fake with CGI imagery. So is that I remember after Avatar when I went, I think we all need a redefinition of what best cinematography is. Yes, I'm much more about like I like to avatar the way water. I do not think it deserves a best cinematography Oscar I just don't Visual effects. Yes, this is what it's for. But I'm sure James Cameron, if we gave him 5 minutes to explain to us why, it would convince us and I'd be like, Yeah, sure, I understand that. And, and I wouldn't even care if if he was just like, talking out of his ass, like, I would, I would believe him. I, I Yes, that's a great point. Yes. I think there needs to be just an overall, maybe like a showcasing of how this was actually done through the use of this cinematography. They like to go big. I'm looking at the winners now. They like to go big for cinematography. I mean, Life of Pi one that's heavily. Yeah, digital gravity one, cinematography No. One. So maybe there's a giant component to this digital world that involves cinematography that quite frankly, maybe we're just not privy to. Yeah, because like, I mean, relies heavily on, on visual effects. Mank as well. I'm not, you know, Roma does not. So that's one that's like kind of on the ground. La-La Land does not. That's one again, on the ground. I do think, you know, it's going to be maverick versus way of water and it'll be a lot of fun to watch. Do you think cinematography is going to go for Maverick? I don't know what else it would. Yeah, I think I think it'll be between those. I mean, yeah, I thought that movie was incredible. Looking at all the amount of cameras. What do you think about Babylon? Babylon was great. I don't know how well Babylon is going to do Oscar wise. No one's seen that movie but Maverick and Avatar two are absolute fucking hits. What about Petite? My mom? You're sure about Bada? What about Vortex for cinematography? Jeez Okay. Yes. These are blond for cinematography. Everyone, Anyone, Anyone? None of these are our favorite movies. I'm. I'm not talking about again. The shit that I would nominate. I'm talking about what they're realistically going to nominate. I know, I know. Yeah. I don't Babylon Cinema. I don't know. It could get some nominations. I don't know if it's walking away with any wins this year. But back to Avatar two. Maybe this is a silly hypothetical because we're never going to get an answer. Do you wish even a little bit that Cameron would go, okay, I'm going to take a break. I'm going to take two years off from making Avatar and just go make like a live action thing. Do you just wish he was using all this Money Time and resource to make like another Titanic about like another huge disaster? What if what if what if, like, would you like to see that? Is there a big sacrifice being made here? Because we're not, you know, Terminator's good terminators, true lies, whatever the abyss, Titanic. And we're only getting Avatar. I mean, personally. Personally, yes. It's crazy how much fucking money and shit he puts into this. But, you know, he's a guy who likes control and he's literally able to create this world from the ground up. And I think that is the appeal to him, you know, And I believe I believe it is me personally. Of course, I will always probably choose live action over anything else. Yeah, but I'm going to go with whatever he does. Yeah. You know, and that leads me to my last question. But yeah, yeah. Wolf, we will follow him. So you're on board for potential Avatar three, four or five, whatever. Yeah. I mean, why not? I don't. I don't have the most up to date stats. He keeps saying that he, like, shot most of three at the same time. It's true. It sounds like three is going to be an extension of two. Four, he said is like fucking nuts. It's just balls to the wall crazy. Those that's like a direct quote from him that. The only studio note was What the fuck? And then you're like, Okay, so that'll be fun. It will be cool to see how these all play out because yeah, even, I mean, outside of the visual effects, like two is a very different movie than what I'm on board. I'll see how it plays out. All show up. Opening weekend for all of them. Oh, you know, we'll see how much money this one makes. Right now, it's about at 1.2 billion worldwide. He shot his shot and said it needed to clear 2 billion to be successful. He's kind of backtracked a little bit, but I don't know. We'll see if he gets it to Jesus, which is so much money. We're talking about your movie Money, Big Jim Hall, We love you. We're going to move on to what are you watching here? Have a great one. I got one that's not great, but Jesus Christ, where do you go first? You set it up like that. No, I'm only going to go with because we've already talked about it. That's okay. It's fine because it's a double down. It's a double down. And for the reason of which we were talking. Yes. Is I'm going with Top Gun two oh, because I think this is a very interesting conversation. We have two giant blockbuster movies that have come out this year that we are both fans of sequels, sequels. We we do not usually champion these types of movies. The point. Yeah. And we are very big fans of both of them. I saw Top Gun three times in IMAX in the theater, and I watched it like two days after is available on Paramount Plus showed Ali and she loved it. She can go to the theater with me to see it. She loved it. I've seen it three times. I think a goddamn perfect movie, right? It will be in my top ten of the year. It will be in mine, too. Yes. Yeah. I don't know if it will be, but maybe it will if we did like top ten moviegoing experience versus Oh yeah, Avatar two would make it. But as a film, I don't think it's going to clear my top ten. But Top Gun Maverick Yeah, I think it's an immensely enjoyable movie. It's interesting. It just it cooks so hard. So. Top Gun Maverick. Okay, good choice. I have a little story time for mine. This is great. I don't really know the best way to set it up, but. Okay, I'll be general about the movie. But. So I ordered Nick a movie for Christmas, and I'm like, Oh, and I know it's a movie he hasn't seen yet. It's when I talk about it on the podcast a lot, he's kind of skirted around the fact that he hasn't seen it, but that's okay. I'm like, I'm going to get him the criterion. He's going to watch it. It's going to be good. I buy the Blu ray and you know, it's good. I know he's visiting me so I'll have time to give it to him. So cool. Like the day, literally the day after I order the movie, it arrives in the mail from Amazon and then can work fast, but not like that fast. And I open it up and it's the 4K version of the Blu ray that I ordered for Nick. And I was like, What the fuck? He doesn't have a 4K player like it has a Blu ray in it, so I guess I'll just give this to him. But I write Amazon and I'm like, Hey, you guys sent me the wrong thing. And they're like, No, we didn't like our the one that you ordered is still in roots. I'm like, Huh? Like what's I don't know what's going on. So then another copy of it comes and I'm like, Okay, I guess they just decided to send me. They sent me wrong once, then they're doubling back and they've sent me a Blu-Ray. So now I have a 4K copy and a Blu ray copy of Spike Lee's Malcolm X just sitting here. And I'm like, I love this movie. I heard he ordered a DVD, but okay, that's it. So I wrap it up quickly because I'm going to give it to Nick the Blu ray. I give it to him and he's opening his gifts and he opens it and he starts dying laughing and he's like, This is what I got you. And I'm like, What do you mean? He's like, I got you the 4K. So. So then we put it all together. The 4K that showed up the day after I ordered yours was your gift to me. And it took us a while to figure out that we got each other the same gift. But right gift notes in your Amazon gift delivery people because they don't know where to rub it. Well, I was going to give you my side of the story. Please. Please, go ahead. Go ahead. Was very, very funny that like, I didn't put any of it together. You didn't either. And that was it. We were just it was it was to the point you were dying laughing when you open yours and, you were like, This is what I got you. And I sprinted up to my loft, grabbed the 4k that was like, I got it. Merry Christmas. I was like, Oh, I get it. All the hell. Amazon didn't mess up. I get it. Yes, please. So trying to like, shop for Alex is terrible because, like, he has all the movies already and it's tough to know which ones like he wants on like uncertain services or like are certain like platforms. So he's been raving about the 4k0 like, like every, every movie is like you guys see the new Pulp Fiction on for you guys, the Terminator on 4K. And so I was like, okay, he's got 4K now. Criterion releases their new batch of brand new. It's not they're not just like, Oh, we're doing our flash sales, right? We have a brand new batch. They usually do about like 6 to 8 new movies. Yeah, yeah. And Malcolm X was on one and I go, There's no way this fucker is going to get it right away. Like, there's just no way I'm going to fucking get this shit and I know it's going to be one that he likes. Now we get it in 4K and he won't have a shit to say about it so I can order. Like that day is like boom. And I was like, eat it, motherfucker. And then all of a sudden I get here. It was like, your Christmas present should be arriving. Have you gotten anything? He's like, No, I have. And I was like, All right, all right, all right. It's coming. It's come, it's coming. And then I even when we got up here, I didn't see it. Nothing. No, it wasn't. It wasn't where it is now. I had hidden it was right there. Like I was like, searching in. I had, I had it hidden because I didn't want you to see that this, like, 4K thing was here because the Blu ray was my gift to you, so I didn't want to see you had it right. Exactly. Exactly. And I have the regular DVD that I'm looking at, but I was always going to upgrade. I was just I was waiting. That was one when we had the Criterion Flash sale. Oh, no. I remember thinking, I'll wait for this for the next flash sale. Yeah, but it was just it's all a hilarious way of saying we got each other the same exact movie as a gift, which I think is hysterical. And someone has some homework, some three hour and 20 minute homework. Yeah. To go and watch it, it's very, very good. It's, you know, I want to give that maybe even it's whole episode, it's own episode because I love it. But Avatar two, we like you way more than we thought. Yeah. So, Maverick, we're still here for you. You know, I think it's going to be we're going to have some fun with the Oscars this year, I'll put it that way, because I'm not going to say, Yeah, stay tuned. No, that's it. Let us know what you thought of Avatar The way of water. Let us know what you think. Big Jim. What are your favorite films by him at W AIW underscore podcast on Twitter or Instagram? But as always, thank you for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas Dose Tor.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast gmail.com or find us on Twitter at w aiw underscore podcast 2022 came and went Was it a good year for movies? Next time we're going to list our top ten favorite films of 2022 and find out. Stay tuned. Thank you for listening and happy watching Big Jim. Big Jim, Baby, you're fired. Yo, yo, yo. Oh, we didn't go through the rest of them fight. Can you think of any? Yeah, well, if you need to get away from her, you bitch. Hold on. Let's try Zoom in order. I got him right here. All Right. Does Piranha to forget? The Terminator is your turn. Well, it's. I'll be back as the most famous, but it's like that. I'm talking about the final kicker. Yeah, when you're. When you're killing the boss and you're terminated. Fucker. What's an alien? Get away from you, bitch. The abyss. I don't know. I think it does have one. He might say something to being. Yeah, and I think he's got some little tagline that he says, but I. It's been a while since I've seen it. I would not have remembered. You're fired from true lies. I wouldn't have either. That was great. But that clearly one awesome. The beast. A baby. Still a beast. A baby, I think. Titanic Iceberg. Avatar. Avatar. The way of water. Ice. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think that one in the way of water either. Yeah. Great. Send off lines. We love you, Big Jim.